posted August 29, 2013 11:40 AM            

It could start as a side career with another career more prominent, too.

IQ is an engineer so it does not have to be one's only career.

Anyway, just wanted to pass that along to you.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 29, 2013 11:41 AM            

there are plenty of individuals who were horribly abused as children and have always been amazing individuals, and...they don't share this aspect.

i guess, if you are someone who causes pain to others, then, if you care, it is your responsibility to do something about it, astrology or not. and even if your attitude has to do with your childhood, there is a point where a person needs to stop using the past as a crutch.

an interesting observation on the jerk-like moon-pluto folks is the fact that they will take out their suffering and anger onto others. so, if they're going through personal struggles, instead of reflecting or managing it in a healthier manner, they will 'punish' others in order to make themselves feel better?? or to...make other people feel as crappy as they are.

i think that the issue with jerk-like moon/pluto people beyond the stereotypes of 'issues with mom', 'painful childhood', 'fear of emotional intimacy, and/or some attachment disorder... is that this aspect, imo, actually adds elements of sense of self-righteousness/holier than thou and coldness/indifference towards others and towards the consequences of their actions. that is, 'if i can' and 'if i can walk over you, i will.'

posted August 29, 2013 11:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I know I asked you this on another thread, Doux, but I can't remember which one. You are very talented in Astrology. Have you thought of doing this as a career?

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Thanks a lot for the compliment, Ami.
I appreciate it.

I don't wish to be a professional astrologer though.
Not for the moment. Maybe later on, who knows.

hikoro,

It sounds like you were hurt by someone with a Moon/Pluto aspect and you are now biased.
Which is totally understandable, by the way.

Just keep in mind that the description I gave is how the hard aspects play out most of the time. I didn't say there weren't exceptions, there always are.
Some people with a Plutonian Moon had great families, all right. But that's definitely the exception and not the rule.

And if someone is a jer*, they're not a jer* because of a placement but because they choose to be one.

posted August 29, 2013 12:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:

hikoro,

It sounds like you were hurt by someone with a Moon/Pluto aspect and you are now biased.
Which is totally understandable, by the way.

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i was expecting you to say something like that...but you're actually wrong.
im actually speaking for myself and other people ive met who don't have any problems with admitting certain things...being self-critical or going through some inner reflection.
you know i have a scorpio stellium, however, one thing i do differently is that i can admit that some scorpios, plutonic, moon-pluto people can be very nasty and that these placements can create very unfavorable behaviour, that is all.
when i read commentary of people who have had terrible experiences with unevolved scorpios/plutonic...i can understand and i sympathize. i know.
im not pc and i dont sugar-coat things.

quote:

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Just keep in mind that the description I gave is how the hard aspects play out most of the time. I didn't say there weren't exceptions, there always are.
Some people with a Plutonian Moon had great families, all right. But that's definitely the exception and not the rule.

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unless we study these things statistically, no one can say what is an exception to the rule.
ive met my share of moon/pluto people who are extremely different from your description, and that is fine. i respect your view...
my point is that not all moon/pluto people fall under your category.

quote:

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And if someone is a jer*, they're not a jer* because of a placement but because they choose to be one.

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never said that...and that was not my intention.

posted August 29, 2013 12:51 PM            

Of course everyone is responsible for their behaviour, but every person's behaviour is a mix of their personality and how things have been in life so far for him, the things he has exeperience.

Yes someone with this aspect, may resolve to mind games and other stuff previously mentioned. But the thing is that sometimes especially when you're young, you don't choose your behaviour,it steems from the things that have happened to you.

I mean really if someone had a rough childhood it takes a lot of time to aknowledge all this and change the behaviour that is a result from the things that have happened to me.

If all I was taught as a kid was that suppressing and hiding my feelings would help me get less hurt, as an adult Im prone to repeat this behaviour till I have the strength to overcome it.

If I learnt as a kid that if I ask for something I want directly, I won't get it, but instead that manipulating works, then again Im gonna repeat this pattern as an adult.

Every behaviour good or bad has an immediate connection to each peoples past, which is a very hard thing to overcome by the way. And keep in mind that sometimes when you hurt someone, you hurt even more inside.

posted August 29, 2013 01:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by its_aqua:
Just my two cents here..

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posted August 29, 2013 01:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by its_aqua:

Every behaviour good or bad has an immediate connection to each peoples past, which is a very hard thing to overcome by the way. And keep in mind that sometimes when you hurt someone, you hurt even more inside.

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statements like these combined with astrology...usually add to my scepticism towards predictive behavior and natal charts...
because for folks who lived a very privilege life...and end up behaving like jerks...what gives? and then, even when we try to find something in the natal that may arrive to their unfavorable behavior...we can find someone else's natal with the same aspects, and that person turned out to be a total sweetheart.
it is just that at times...i find that the abusive childhood-crappy behavior is carried out too far that it becomes a stereotype, discounting people who were abused and never cared to inflict pain onto others, and people out there who had it very good growing up...but turned out to be monsters.
anyways...this is becoming too off-topic.

posted August 29, 2013 01:31 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by its_aqua:

I have an Aries Moon quincunx Pluto in Scorpio.

I feel so afraid to express my feelings and I end up playing games, trying to control people through their feelings. It's a very complex aspect, I don't know where to begin to explain it.

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I understand

At the same time because of these revelations it has also caused me to take responsibility for my behavior. All I have are chances with the next one to control myself and my feelings instead of them.

posted August 29, 2013 02:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I understand

At the same time because of these revelations it has also caused me to take responsibility for my behavior. All I have are chances with the next one to control myself and my feelings instead of them.

I'm curious how different Moon signs aspecting Pluto feel though. I have a Taurus moon so in my head it would make sense my intense feelings last longer than someone like you with an Aries moon aspecting Pluto. What do you think?

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posted August 29, 2013 10:18 PM            

Solar Return moon is in Scorpio. I'm much more quiet about my emotions and how I feel about people now, I still feel vulnerable when I do express myself emotionally, I still am terrified of losing control of my emotions. I hunger for a romantic connection so penetrating and deep that I want it to feel intoxicating and endless. I amputate people MUCH more easily when hurt, which I used to be almost incapable of doing.

With Pluto Moon and Pluto Moon aspects I don't easily trust people, am very suspicious of their words, actions and intentions, can get very jealous easily.

posted July 06, 2014 04:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Wow
I love all these answers!

Hanna--You seem to confirm what she was doing. Then, get this?

He found a g/f and I think it is the real deal. When he posted it on his FB, the other girl wrote this cryptic post about how he was so much braver and stronger than she thought.

I had the sense that she wanted to pull him in and do another time around with it, now that he moved on.

Does that fit?

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I think you only sabotage your own relationships when they show signs of becoming.

When someone else comes into the picture, the pressure is off, so you become comfortable with it again.

I'm speaking of the Natal Square.

posted July 06, 2014 10:43 AM            

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posted July 06, 2014 10:59 AM            

It's a blessing and it's a curse. I can read people like books, I'm very intuitive (moon in the 1st, opposite pluto in the 7th) and sensitive to those around me and their feelings. I'm sensitive but too proud to show it. I have more deep and dark thoughts than those around me. I obsess over things; all or nothing. I feel emotions very intensely, but I get over things very quicky (Moon in Gemini to thank, I suppose lol).

posted July 06, 2014 04:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
What natal square, E?

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Pluto and the Moon, Ami.

posted July 07, 2014 08:56 PM            

my relationships are often one-sided. almost always actually.
i've never had a healthy romantic relationship.
i am very "unemotional" (but not really. just been accused of it) and can't handle needy types but i crave passion.
lots of intense love affairs.

posted July 07, 2014 11:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Hi, it's me again. I'm feeling inspired, so..

Um, okay so there are people who have had bad experiences with this aspect - mainly with men because men take a lot longer to "channel" the energy of a hard Moon/Pluto aspect, which makes sense since men aren't really conditioned to be that emotional and God forbid, show weakness of any kind.
So the men are more inclined to play the infamous mind games, and try to manipulate the women they're interested in (or not).
I've seen it happen myself, with two guys who have Moon square Pluto.
I must add that it's the kind of behaviour that happens when they're young and / or really immature.
It gets better with time (luckily) when the men realize that their controlling tactics don't work and change their behaviour or seek help.

Women with this aspect are usually (but not always) much more aware of their emotional life and their inner workings, so they can work on it better and come to an integration of the aspect (which can also take time and work).

The way it manifests is usually a deep fear of emotional pain, I said that in another thread - the mother or family in general had a deep effect on the child with Moon/Pluto and there is often abuse or emotional dishonesty (hidden anger or depression for example) in the early childhood, which leads the child to "absorb" the emotional undercurrents and that later gives him the ability to read people well and catch emotional cues that others may not see.

It's because the Moon/Pluto person learnt at an early age to decipher any kind of emotional change in the atmosphere - so that he could "protect" himself - hence the feeling of alertness at all times - it can give anxiety or a vague restlessness because they're always expecting "something" to happen (like a sudden outburst of anger of someone close to them).

If the mother (or any other family member) was temperamental and could explode at any moment, or was emotionally / mentally unstable, it makes sense that the child would develop a defense mechanism to prevent him from being psychically harmed - it may not be physical abuse (although possible) but mental/emotional abuse is very damaging as well - the child grows up to believe that people are unstable / unreliable and can hurt him just like the loved mother / family member did.

And that's why the emotional manipulation and intensity usually only come out in *close* situations, with people who make them *feel*.
Moon/Pluto people are very controlled people in most situations, they won't cry in public, they won't get angry in social situations, and so on.

But when it comes to their inner, private little world, and if someone actually touches a soft spot in them, they'll react intensely - internally at least (they usually try to cover it up and show a poker face).

Romantic relationships are the ones most affected because there's a strong feeling of attachment that comes with "falling in love" - and Moon/Pluto people are very scared of such feelings because it means they lose their power, they are vulnerable and the other person can hurt them by changing their feelings or rejecting them - which means *death* in Plutonian terms, because the child's survival depended on the love given by the mother - so they become guarded emotionally, can withdraw, or play games. Basically they can't handle their own insecurity well and don't know how to act in order to prevent being hurt by someone they feel has some power over them.

So, they're not *evil*, or jer*s so to speak, of course some of them can actually turn into very bad people, but at the source of the behaviour is the early conditioning which didn't offer *safety* to the child - he felt rejected, abandoned, or scared quite a lot of time, because the parents couldn't deal with him and his emotional needs properly or were abusive themselves.

The dysfunctional family patterns then got imprinted in the child's psyche and he took his fears into adulthood.

The most common "games" with Moon/Pluto people are push/pull games - I want you VS I don't want you; I need you VS Go away.
Because their "true" self *wants* the intimacy, wants the love; but the damaged, emotionally dysfunctional side is in panic mode because it senses the possibility of being badly hurt, so it pulls back and withdraws. It's kind of like a battle between the "genuine" self VS the damaged child side.

Now, it takes self-awareness to first *see* this behaviour and understand it, but it takes work to change it and overcome the old conditioning.

The worst cases surely need therapy to overcome the deeply ingrained fears and insecurities related to love, nurturing and attachment, but it also takes a very patient, loving and stable partner to help them overcome their subconscious defense mechanisms and be freed from their fears.

In a healthy state, Moon/Pluto people have a lot of love, care, and understanding to give.
They are loyal, honest and supportive people who'll always stand by your side if they feel like you're worthy of being their friend.

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