posted December 17, 2013 11:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Yes, but did you only focus on overlays?

Also, how an overlaying planet from a partner aspects the rest of our chart is significant. If it doesn't aspect us at all, we won't feel much about that person. If it makes not so nice aspects (like square to Saturn), they may seem unpleasant to us, regardless of house overlays.

I'll admit there's something of an X-factor when it comes to attraction, as well, which can make it unpredictable.

Let me put it like this. I've NEVER been attracted to somebody that I didn't have significant 5th, 7th, and 8th house synastry with. And I mean never yet in this life time.

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that every time someone dumps planets in one of these houses, that I'm irresistibly drawn to them. Rather, the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses open up the possibility that I could be drawn to them, but it doesn't determine whether or not an attraction actually occurs.

I've never had attraction without the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses. But Having that in synastry is not a guarantee of attraction, so much as it opens up the potential for it to occur. Even then sometimes it may not take. That's the X-factor.

If we fell in love with everybody who put planets in our 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, the world would be crazy! That's a lot of people! Obviously, not everybody who puts planets there is going to catch our fancy.

I suspect this is because they don't give us the kind of inter-planetary synastry that we need for attraction (but that's still a theory at this point).

Oh, and when I look the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, I study the house rulers, and secondary houses, as well as 'planets in houses' (overlays). When I study the synastry of friends and celebs, there have always been certain 5th, 7th, and 8th house connections there, as far as I've observed.

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion.

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posted December 18, 2013 05:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
exactly! You are just reinforcing what I believe about synastry. If synastry had any value it could atleast predict with some accuracy who might be attracted to who. It can't do that at all... So why do people call some aspects "sexual attraction" aspects? If they were truly sexual attraction aspects you would be attracted to people you have those aspects with. You also touched on the looks issue and I liked your no bs response. You said looks are everything which is true. So with that concept in mind why do people talk about fluff like connections? It's all about looks right? I don't know all the bs just gets on my nerves.

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posted December 18, 2013 07:24 PM            

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 18, 2013 08:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HPDBlue:
Moon square mars- The person I know with this aspect is really cocky and demands respect . Volatile , blows up if not shown respect or treated with high honor.

I also have this placement but for some reason do not act the same way as the person mentioned above. lol I've actually noticed a lot of inconsistencies in aspect readings that lead me to believe there is more that I am not calculating in; and that perhaps one day I'll be able to figure it out lol

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Yes, this seems to be the way Moon sq Mars is. How close is yours and what are the signs and houses?

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 18, 2013 08:34 PM            

I want to understand so badly but will need to really come back and look very closely. I respect how well you know Astrology so thanks for posting here!

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 18, 2013 08:36 PM            

Could you please explain more? Thanks!

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 18, 2013 09:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Aquaguy

Could you please explain more? Thanks!

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posted December 18, 2013 10:52 PM            

Synastry/composites show one static chart when the reality is people change and relationships change all the time. BUT.. that's where transits and progressions come in. Which I know can get ridiculously complicated, but just look at your progressed chart (moon especially), and significant transits you're going through, and I think majority of the time you'll find yourself involved or attracted to people who mirror that in synastry. The progressed composite and transits to the composite can be insightful too for more long term interactions..

posted December 19, 2013 02:49 AM            

I think synastry is used full to explained how you are attracted to another person. The characteristics of a Plutonic relationship and a Saturnian one are very different. And I think these characteristics make me understand the relationship better as synastry can map out for me which characteristics trigger our attraction. I had a plutonic relationship, was obsessed with the person for 3 years and was definitely hurt by it. Besides contact between pluto and venus, our charts have nothing similar which explains why we were opposite,chose wildly different career and ended up at very different place.

So it's not always an excuse per se, though I have found myself wishful-thinking just like anyone else.

Something else to remember is that astrology leaves room for the Hunan will to overcome challenges, both personal and in relationship. If an unelvolved soul meets an evolved one, good synastry might not do much.

posted December 19, 2013 03:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
[B]I don't know if you've seen this Ceri and Lotis but it's absolutely 100% verifiable info on the marriage charts I've tested it against. Maybe you two could compare it to the charts you have to further test it's veracity.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/212733.html

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What I've learned is that I'm surprised every day by what I find!

posted December 19, 2013 05:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HPDBlue:
Moon square mars- The person I know with this aspect is really cocky and demands respect . Volatile , blows up if not shown respect or treated with high honor.

I also have this placement but for some reason do not act the same way as the person mentioned above. lol I've actually noticed a lot of inconsistencies in aspect readings that lead me to believe there is more that I am not calculating in; and that perhaps one day I'll be able to figure it out lol

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I'm very much like this. Super sensitive and "macho" acting at times.

posted December 19, 2013 09:26 AM            

like usually I can only nod to what you wrote.

"Makes sense, because the 12th house symbolizes how we are when we are alone, and what might be boiling below the surface that others aren't aware of."
Yes, that is what my experience and observation with the 12th composite house sais,t oo. It is actually a very intimate house.

"Venus in the 12th house may mean private affection and appreciation between a couple. Others who know them may not be aware of the true depth of warmth between them, or perhaps they tend to 'blindside' each other with expressions of affection."
I actually have that with the composite with someone. Venus in 12th house. (actually that Venus opposes my natal Saturn in 8th house exactly).

Anyway, I was totally blindsided and almost shocked, when I realized how much genuine sympathy and appreciation there was underneath (at least from my side).
I mean I was quite aware that for somer eason he triggered uncharacteristic physical responses in me, but at some point I had to realize that I actually "like" him, and strangely that felt more huge than admtiting I might be physically attracted to him. lol
But yeah, Venus in 12th composite house right there. Of course my Saturn went into a bit of shock mode right then. lol

"he Moon in the 12th house could mean a private deep emotional bond, and attachment for one another,"
Yes, that is what I oberve, too, in the composite of my parents (Cancer-Moon in 12th house), my brother and his girlfriend (actually they have not Moon, but Sun-Mercury-Venus in Pisces in 12th house) and my best friend and her husband (Pisces-Moon in 12th house).

They all have watery Moons anyway, so this might emphasize the emotional response

"omantically', it has a plationic expression as well (balancing each other with charm and assertiveness)."
Yes, exactly; the thing is the planetary aspects have not one single expression, but a certain rage of manifestation, according to their symbolism of course.

This is what makes it really difficult to use synastry for pure prediction ( will they? will they not?).

"By this, I mean synastry to the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, via overlays or aspects to the house rulers."
Yes, and I would also add to that aspects to planets, which are placed in houses 5,7 and 8.

For me Saturn in 8th house is very certainly part of my relating profile. And everytime it gets triggered, there is a maybe uncharacteristical relationship oriented response triggered in me, too. He is still Saturn of course, so I do not say this is easy.

"Important connections to the angles from a partner is what gives them gravity, and significance, in our life. It makes them personal 'game-changers' for us"
Yes.
BTW I was specifically speaking about conjunctions here. I don´t think trines and sextiles are so strong. They still have their influence on the angles, of course, but the conjunctions to angles is what lifts a planet into the forefront, gives it centre stage, directing a laser beam or spotlight onto it.

"... Synastry connections to the Vertex (my personal favorite, because I think it activates attraction too!), "
yes, definitely. The Vertex is always located in houses 5, 6, 7 or 8, the relationship houses after all!

"Nodal Axis, "
Yes. nodes are about connections after all.

"Asc/Dsc, Mc/Ic, and the East Point/West Point Axis (Equatorial Asc/Dsc)"
yes. I haven`t really researched theEast Point enough. What do you think it means in practical terms and different fromt he other angles?

I am asking cause mine is around 2 or 4 Capricorn conjunct my Venus. Might be important.

"depending on our natal charts and experience, people like to have their natal charts aspected in particular ways, and different people have different amounts of tolerance for hard aspects in synastry."
that is a very vital point, that is neglected too much.

Mercury is such a romantic planet for me. Really.
And personally I do like conjunctions and squares; probably because I have them natally. My relationship profile is more on the heavy side with Venus in Capricorn square Pluto, ruler of 8th house in 2nd house (in Aquarius though) quinkunx Saturn; 5th house ruler in Capricorn square Pluto; Saturn in 8th house and so on.
You really stumble across this Saturn-Pluto mix in very different ways all the time, interlaced with a bit of Uranus and Jupiter.

I suppose that might be one reason I really only feel any kind of response when there are very tight conjunctions and squares in play. Give me a synastry with trines and sextiles, and I will not even raise my brow I suppose. Not that I don`t feel them, they ARE nice. But would Saturn-Pluto go for "nice"? nah, didn`t think so either.

However for someone with 5th house ruler in Libra conjunct Sun; 7th house ruler in Leo conjunct Jupiter and 8th house ruler in Sagittarius trine Venus - well this person might need something completely different.
And honestly I think, we would never fit in a relationship-context. LOL
We would want too different things.

" But, angle connections seem to be what anchors the connection in reality. As in, something actually happens!2
that is EXACTLY what I mean.

Actually I am slowly more and more giving priority attention to those synastry configuration, where at least one of the planets is right on an angle, in either chart.
Spotlighting.

posted December 19, 2013 09:43 AM            

I agree principally, or in most things, with a few modifications.

" -Mars square (or sometimes conjunct) Saturn.2
my parents have that as a DW, so they would qualify. I have not seen it pop up as frequently in other charts though, but it does happen.

" there's almost always a conjunction between Saturn and the Sun or Saturn and the Ascendant."
i haven´t noticed the Saturn-ASC-aspect so much, but notice Sun-Saturn A LOT, and not just in conjunction but frequently even in a square (or opposition) aspect.

What was not mentioned but I have seen it over and over again, was a challenging aspect of Saturn to Moon as well.
It coudl be though that this only true for people who are Saturnian in nature.

" -Alignment of the angles. The most common is one person's AC conjunct the other's MC or IC. "
No. I haven`t seen that one as much. At leat not so often I could make it as a rule.
Again it DOES happen, but not all the time.

However,w hat I have seen to have a lot of truth, is the so called "marriage - rule".

" -There is usually at least one significant nodal conjunction (either with a planet or angle), but no consistency as to what that conjunction is. Node conjunct Saturn seems more common than node conjunct a personal planet, and nodes conjunct the angles (either AC/DC or IC/MC) also occur with some frequency."

yes, definitely. I also see the square to the Nodes though.
Saturn conjunct NN or SN happens so often I almost expect seeing this one. lol
Neptune conjunct SN or square the nodal axis seem to be bad news in most cases.

" -There is almost ALWAYS at least one planet/angle conjunction, often more. Conjunctions to the IC and MC are just as common, if not more so, than conjunctions to the AC and DC."
Yes.

Though in the case of m parents, my brother and my best friend it were conjunctions to the ASC-DESC. However I also have seen conjunctions to IC or MC (Sun on the IC seemed to be a classic one).

" -I have *not* noticed any of the classically "good" aspects like sun conjunct moon or Venus conjunct Mars appear"
If we limit it to the conjunction then a yes.
However Sun-Moon aspects ARE common.
Venus-Mars not so much.

"es with no major sun/sun, sun/moon, or moon/moon aspects at all, and in these cases there's often a lot of Saturn action going on."
I can`t confirm this. I usually see tight aspects including Sun and Moon or/and ASC.
Saturn action makes sense though, as he is part of a complementary pair (Moon-Saturn), and is part of what I Once called "pragmatic soulmates" in a past mail.

" -There is often a major, tight conjunction between a personal planet or angle and one of the following asteroids: Union, Amor, Valentine, Eros, or Psyche"
Yes, I noticed that, too.
Interestingly I havent noticed Eros-Psyche too often.

haven`t researched the name asteroids really.
(I only noticed that my name asteroid very often seems to be around 8 Pisces, either in the chart of a man or in the composite I share with them).

" -Chiron trine, sextile, or conjunct Venus is REALLY common. Chiron trine, sextile, or sun also occurs with some frequency."
Yes. Chiron-Moon,t oo.

" -Tight orbs don't seem to matter"
Yes, they do.
Or let`s put it this way, in my observation they do.

However I am looking rather for quality than for quantity. With that I mean that I find a few tightorbed aspects more expressive, descriptive and telling than a pile of wide orbed ones.
If however I were expecting to see 20-30 aspects on the average, then of course I would be disapointed if I onl found a handful tightorbed ones.

But I am different in this regard, in that a few close aspects tell me more and more "sharply" what is really "burning" in a synastry.

That doesn`t mean the other aspects are invalid; just that the focus usually is on the tight ones.
But that is just my observation. I know others approach an analysis differently, and that is totally okay. I just described my approach here.

" There usually are only a few aspects that are close to exact, and those aspects really set the tone of the marriage.
I agree with that. And these are the ones I look out for. Cause usually those are the ones a couple has to work with on an everyday level, especially if an outer planet comes "visiting".
The reactions are so instant that they are almost like a reflex.

" I have a theory that lots of tight aspects and exciting conjunctions eventually become too intense and uncomfortable,"
That might be.
As I said realy tight aspecting planets are building a vortex or a system of energy, and if one corner is triggered all the other corners react pretty much at the same time, and of course that can be rather explosive, depending on the aspects and planets themeselves.

However I haven`t seen one single lasting relationship without tight strong dynamic aspects between major players, especially Sun, Moon, Saturn, nodes, Vertex and angles.
(of course for there to be a romantic attraction there need to be something with Venus, Mars, 5th house ruler as well, also 7th and 8th house often, though the 5th house seems to "win" in terms of creating instant st sparks).

"relationship to progress into a marriage, there needs to be some Saturn action, growth-oriented challenging aspects, a few nodal or angle connections, and significant progressions or transits to kick things off."
Yes.

posted December 19, 2013 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, this seems to be the way Moon sq Mars is. How close is yours and what are the signs and houses?

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the volatile person has
Moon capricorn 10th
Mars rx Aries 12th
She has mars , mercury and saturn all rx

posted December 19, 2013 04:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libraschoice77:
Over the years of looking at natal charts, you can't really box someone in with certain placements or aspects. Just because someone has a hard chart with squares and oppositions doesn't make them a bad person. As with soft aspects in someones chart doesn't make things easy or make them better. There is just so much to look at when it comes to a persons personality and their natal chart.

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posted December 22, 2013 01:26 PM            

- Squares to the Nodes are very powerful and not just in romantic synastry. If you find you keep getting the same planet squaring them (or the same sign), it's likely because you can learn from the planet/sign that squares it. It may help to get to your NN.

- When someone has their Moon or Venus in a sign where it's not very comfortable (like Capricorn, Aries, Scorpio, Virgo, etc.), a Moon-Venus conjunction can bring out a very soft side in each other, one that may not be seen by most people. Sun or Jupiter with Moon/Venus or Sun-Jupiter can bring out a surprisingly playful side that again, they may not show too often.

Natally too. Moon conjunct Venus is still that, even in a cold or super independent sign. Trines and sextiles work too.

Same goes the other way around, Mars conjunctions to something in Libra or Cancer can make someone a lot more feisty and direct than you'd think. In synastry, it may bring out that feistiness in someone who is normally a lot more peaceful and diplomatic.

- We unconsciously seek out people who represent our Descendant, even when we dislike the traits on that sign/of planets in the 7th.

- The Sun and Moon + aspects are probably how we perceived our parents growing up (if they were there). This doesn't have to be what they were really like, but it's the feeling you got from them. This could of course end up playing out with important men and women in our lives as well.

- 5th, 7th and 8th house overlays can work in a platonic way too. The drinking buddy you go partying with (5th), someone you work well in a team with (or who makes one hell of a rival! - 7th), or a confidant you trust with things you normally wouldn't. (8th)
I'm curious if this is could explain the point people brought up here about not always being attracted to people who filled their romance houses.

Another one would be that if you have an empty house, maybe the house the ruler of in gives you a dealbreaker. Something you need before you will see that person in a different light.

Like if any of them falls into the first, you may need someone to think of you as beautiful the way you are. You want them to appreciate the way you look and generally handle things.
In the 3rd house - communication. If you can't talk to that person, if there's no click, nothing happens.
In the 10th - Someone ambitious and who respects your achievements - publically too.

But that doesn't mean conjunctions are always perceived as easy aspects. When someone has a planet, especially a personal one, that's very afflicted, a conjunction will set it all off again. They may not be able to or just don't want to handle the overwhelming energy. For those a trine could work better or a sextile. A nudge instead of full-on in-your-face.

- I think we attract (and unconsciously want to be around) people who have similar charts to us, which can end up badly - bringing out the worst in each other. This could be why some people don't get along despite lots of good aspects - if they both have some very hard natal charts to deal with, someone who shows the very same traits can be just too much.

- If any of the romance houses make harsh aspects to a lot of your planets, you may be better off with an aspect to the ruler instead of an overlay. Then you still get a romance vibe but without the harsh aspects that come with your houses.

- If someone has a conjunction to the rulers of their romance houses, that planet or the sign it normally rules can take over from the house with what they're attracted to. I think oppositions and harsh aspects natally work too. Like... someone with a Sagittarius Descendant has their Jupiter conjunct Venus. Though Libra or Taurus isn't in their pattern (nor is the 2nd or 7th house), they are very much attracted to Venusian types. And though the Mercury of someone with a Virgo DSC isn't in Cancer or the 4th house, a square to the Moon may still make them attracted to the sweet, nurturing types.

I also wonder if conjunctions to the 5th/7th/8th house ruler mean they take the matters of the house the conjunct planet rules with them in their attraction pattern. Like the 7th house ruler conjunct the ruler of the 5th - they want fun as well as a partnership.

- A difficult aspect between a personal planet and an outer planet can be worked with by pleasing both sides. You may find a lot of understanding from people who have these signs strong in their chart as well. (Ex: A Pisces with their Sun square Saturn in Sagittarius may find they click well with people who have these two signs strong too.)

- Harsh aspects from outer planets to the Sun or Moon change the way they play out very much. They can even take over. (Example: Someone who has nothing in Pisces, but their Sun is conjunct Neptune, giving them a Neptunian vibe.)

posted December 23, 2013 09:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Oooooh, I have one.

This is something I've noticed through a lot of observation (I've been studying astrology for about 20 years now, and am self-taught). Anyone familiar with my posts will know what I'm talking about (I tend to rave about this topic).

My theory is that...

The sign on the cusp of a house tells what we experience in that area of life in TWO different ways.

Our experiences with that area of life can embody the symbolism of that house itself... Or they can embody the symbolism of the house traditionally associated with that the sign on the cusp of that house.

For example (in case you don't get my meaning)...

If a person has Gemini on the 7th house cusp, with Jupiter in that house, they may attract a mate with strong Mercury/Jupiter characteristics, or someone who puts placements in the 7th house itself.

AND...

Because the sign Gemini is on the 7th house cusp, this means they are attracted to having strong communication in their relationships. So, a person with Gemini on the 7th house cusp could ALSO attract a partner with who puts planets in their 3rd house, or whose chart very much resembles the symbolism of their 3rd house (Gemini is traditonally associated with the 3rd house). These people would seem like natural partners to someone with Gemini on the 7th house cusp, as they'd bring intellectual stimulation into the Gemini Dsc person's life, which is what they're looking for and are attracted to.

If the person has a Taurus Dsc, rather then a Gemini one, they may be attracted to a Taurus-like person (where the partner would put planets in their 7th house), or to a partner resembling their 2nd house (Where the partner would put planets in their 2nd house).

Conclusion: Gemini Dsc could mean attraction to Gemini/Mercury's sign... Or it could mean attraction to the sign on the 3rd house cusp, and sign of the ruler of the 3rd house (We'd look at any planets in the 7th or 3rd houses as well).

A Taurus Dsc could mean attraction to Taurus/Venus' sign... Or it could mean attraction to the sign on the 2nd house cusp, and the sign of the ruler of the 2nd house (We'd look at any planets in the 7th or 2nd houses as well).

See the pattern?

I refer to this as the Secondary 7th house (or the secondary house cusp, as this method can be used with any of the 12 houses to explore the issues of that house in further detail). The Secondary Dsc is the house traditionally associated with the sign on the 7th house.

In terms of what we attract, it go either way. Sometimes people attract partners whose natal charts resemble both the 7th house and the secondary 7th house.

Myself, I've got a Gemini Dsc with Jupiter int the 7th house ruled my Mercury in Sagittarius. I'm attracted to Gemini (Mercury)/Sagittarius (Jupiter) types (especially Sagittarius) a lot. However I have Aquarius on the 3rd house cusp, ruled by Uranus in Scorpio, and I'm sometimes find myself quite fascinated with people who have lots of Aquarius and/or Scorpio influences in their chart.

As I mentioned before, this method can be used on any house in the chart to explore that area of life more fully. It's not just for the 7th house. In romantic compatibility, for instance, I'll also look at the secondary 5th (romantic sparks) and 8th houses (private intimacy) in synastry. I'll look at synastry planets in houses (overlays), and how the ruler of these houses is aspected by the partner in synastry, for both the primary and secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses (These are soooo interesting to check people!).

If you wanted you could even check more mundane 'boring' houses, like the 6th house, and it's secondary house, if you wanted to know more about your daily routines/work style/employment/health. If you had Cancer on the 6th house cusp, you could check out the 4th house for extra information on 6th house concerns in your chart.

To determine Secondary houses (for any of the twelve houses)

Aries House Cusp… Look to the 1st House.

Taurus House Cusp… Look to the 2nd House.

Gemini House Cusp… Look to the 3rd House

Cancer House Cusp… Look to the 4th House

Leo House Cusp… Look to the 5th House

Virgo House Cusp… Look to the 6th House

Libra House Cusp… Look to the 7th House

Scorpio House Cusp… Look to the 8th House

Sagittarius House Cusp … Look to the 9th House

Capricorn House Cusp … Look to the 10th House

Aquarius House Cusp… Look to the 11th House

Pisces House Cusp… Look to the 12th House

The secondary house gives extra information about the area of life in question. The symbolism of the primary house and secondary house in question combined can be quite telling. Also, looking at how these house rulers interact nataly, and in synastry, can give us some interesting clues as to the dynamics of situations in our lives and relationships.

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posted December 25, 2013 02:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
"romantically', it has a plationic expression as well (balancing each other with charm and assertiveness)."
Yes, exactly; the thing is the planetary aspects have not one single expression, but a certain rage of manifestation, according to their symbolism of course.

This is what makes it really difficult to use synastry for pure prediction ( will they? will they not?).
.

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Yeah, attraction is definitely a balance of the right kind of interplanetary synastry with the right kind of 5th, 7th, and 8th house activations, and perhaps some Vertex activation as well.

If we have Venus/Mars in synastry, but no 5th, 7th, and 8th house activation, the aspect is more likely to manifest in a platonic manner.

If we have 5th, 7th, and 8th house activation and no attraction producing synastry aspects, we may vaguely like the person’s style but we may not be attracted to them romantically.

If have 5th, 7th, and 8th house activation with somebody, but the synastry with them is very weak, and we can’t feel their energy, we may not even notice the person.

My basic formula is ‘attraction producing synastry aspects’ + ‘5th, 7th, 8th house, and Vertex activation’ = strong attraction.

And even if we have both of these factors (attraction producing aspects and 5th, 7th, 8th house/Vertex activation), still there is an element of unpredictability in attraction.

Just like planetary aspects have multiple levels of meaning, house activations have multiple levels of meaning too.

The 5th house refers to how we experience romantic sparks, but it can also refer to our child, our father (in a fun sense), or the novel we’ve been writing (our creativity). The 7th house can refer to our best friend, or business partner, as well as our spouse. And the 8th house can tell us about our therapist, and our joint financial ventures, just as much as it can tell us about the style of intimacy we want from a partner.

That’s why I like to say that the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses in synastry open up the POSIBILITY of attraction rather then guarantees it.

Maybe due to our fate or whatever, a 5th house activation with someone is only about that person being an inspiration to us for writing that play or novel we always wanted to write. Or our 8th house activation with someone is only about them getting us to deal with some of our past emotional trauma. Or our 7th house activation with someone is only about them teaching us how to negotiate and debate effectively. There’s a variety of ways that 5th, 7th and 8th house synastry could manifest.

On the other hand, the amount of times that I have seen 5th, 7th, and 8th house activation + attraction producing aspects in synastry (together), leading to strong attraction, sure does indicate to me that these are key factors in creating it (I‘ve seen this scenario in just about every synastry I‘ve ever checked for a couple). I mean it really, really, really does seem to increase the chances of attraction happening.

Still I don’t know everything, and I’m sure there’s more to learn in that area of research. Because there are still those odd cases where for some inexplicable reason attraction just doesn’t take even in the presence of these factors in synastry. And this could be related to the style of synastry that we prefer being missing, or even something as mundane as a large age difference. Or it could be due to unknown factor that we haven’t even considered yet.

I’d say the majority of times, though, this type of analysis is very accurate for pinpointing a romantic attraction when comparing two charts.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"By this, I mean synastry to the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, via overlays or aspects to the house rulers."
Yes, and I would also add to that aspects to planets, which are placed in houses 5,7 and 8.

For me Saturn in 8th house is very certainly part of my relating profile. And everytime it gets triggered, there is a maybe uncharacteristical relationship oriented response triggered in me, too. He is still Saturn of course, so I do not say this is easy.

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Ooh Yes! I’ve noticed that aspects to our natal planets in the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses can also have an impact, just like planetary overlays and aspects to house rulers. I was considering adding this and also going into projected house rulers and such, but then I realized I might wind up writing an essay that goes on for too long.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
"Important connections to the angles from a partner is what gives them gravity, and significance, in our life. It makes them personal 'game-changers' for us"
Yes.
BTW I was specifically speaking about conjunctions here. I don´t think trines and sextiles are so strong. They still have their influence on the angles, of course, but the conjunctions to angles is what lifts a planet into the forefront, gives it centre stage, directing a laser beam or spotlight onto it.

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I have to agree with you when it comes to the ‘anchoring in reality’ factor, that conjunctions to the Angles, Nodes, and Vertex Axis, are best. Conjunctions here are just really confirming and solid, whereas sextiles and trines might merely be helpful and ‘nice’.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"depending on our natal charts and experience, people like to have their natal charts aspected in particular ways, and different people have different amounts of tolerance for hard aspects in synastry."
that is a very vital point, that is neglected too much.

Mercury is such a romantic planet for me. Really.
And personally I do like conjunctions and squares; probably because I have them natally. My relationship profile is more on the heavy side with Venus in Capricorn square Pluto, ruler of 8th house in 2nd house (in Aquarius though) quinkunx Saturn; 5th house ruler in Capricorn square Pluto; Saturn in 8th house and so on.
You really stumble across this Saturn-Pluto mix in very different ways all the time, interlaced with a bit of Uranus and Jupiter.

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Yep, aspects to Mercury (ruler of my Gemini Dsc) really attract me too. I’ve even noticed transits to Mercury can make me ‘feel’ more affectionate.

The more I get to know my chart, and go though experiences, the more I’m able to decipher what type of synastry I need. Like with my Venus/Moon quincunx, I don’t mind hard aspects to either one of them as long as it’s balanced by a soft aspects to both…

My Moon in Cancer might be square a Libra planet but that Libra planet will sextile my Sagittarius Venus, meanwhile a Pisces planet might square my Venus but trine my Moon. A person who has both the Libra and Pisces planets in their chart aspecting my Venus/Moon configeration would have their own quincunx nataly. People with squares, quincunxes, or semi-sextiles, at around 29 degrees are able to relate well to me via my Venus/Moon complex (29 Cancer/29 Sagittarius). I like to see one masculine sign planet, and one feminine sign planet, at around 29-28 degrees.

posted December 25, 2013 02:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MsPrism:
I don't know if you've seen this Ceri and Lotis but it's absolutely 100% verifiable info on the marriage charts I've tested it against. Maybe you two could compare it to the charts you have to further test it's veracity.
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/212733.html

[QUOTE][b]Originally posted by featherlightly:

I've spent the last 10+ years specifically studying relationship charts, and this is what I've noticed over and over in marriages and other long-term relationships, drawing on at least 500 - 600 charts I've looked at (if not more than that... I've lost count):

-Mars square (or sometimes conjunct) Saturn.
This pops up SO MUCH it's mind-boggling -- at least 85% of the married synastry charts I've looked at have it. I think it attests to the drive (Mars) for responsibility (Saturn) set in motion by the friction of the square. It's not often a pleasant aspect but it works like glue.

-When there's no hard Mars/Saturn aspect, there's almost always a conjunction between Saturn and the Sun or Saturn and the Ascendant.

-Alignment of the angles. The most common is one person's AC conjunct the other's MC or IC. Less common but still occurring is AC conjunct AC and AC conjunct DC. I've noticed that with marriages, it's much more likely to be AC conjunct MC, whereas shorter-term relationships, or relationships people have when they're younger, involve AC conjunct AC or DC. I think this is because the MC/IC axis involves more than just attraction and represents inner/domestic life as well as public life, which tend to become more important in marriages.

-There is usually at least one significant nodal conjunction (either with a planet or angle), but no consistency as to what that conjunction is. Node conjunct Saturn seems more common than node conjunct a personal planet, and nodes conjunct the angles (either AC/DC or IC/MC) also occur with some frequency.

-There is almost ALWAYS at least one planet/angle conjunction, often more. Conjunctions to the IC and MC are just as common, if not more so, than conjunctions to the AC and DC.

-I have *not* noticed any of the classically "good" aspects like sun conjunct moon or Venus conjunct Mars appear in marriage synastry any more often than they would by chance. Sextiles between Venus and Mars are actually the most common aspect I've seen between those two planets, but often there is no aspect at all.

-I have seen many marriage synastries with no major sun/sun, sun/moon, or moon/moon aspects at all, and in these cases there's often a lot of Saturn action going on.

-There is often a major, tight conjunction between a personal planet or angle and one of the following asteroids: Union, Amor, Valentine, Eros, or Psyche (or these asteroids will aspect each other). Eros/Psyche conjunctions aren't particularly common in marriages, but seem much more common in relationships that don't culminate in marriage.

-Likewise, in the charts I've checked with name asteroids, there is often a significant conjunction of one person's name asteroid with the other person's name asteroid or personal planet, OR one (or both) people have the other person's name asteroid conjunct a personal planet in their natal chart, especially the sun. Sort of like finding this person was "written" into their chart from birth...

-Chiron trine, sextile, or conjunct Venus is REALLY common. Chiron trine, sextile, or sun also occurs with some frequency.

-Tight orbs don't seem to matter. When the relationships have sun/moon or moon/moon aspects, for instance, orbs of up to even 8 or 9 degrees seem to function just fine for compatibility. There usually are only a few aspects that are close to exact, and those aspects really set the tone of the marriage.

I have a theory that lots of tight aspects and exciting conjunctions eventually become too intense and uncomfortable, unless both people are VERY mature, and either cause two people to start repulsing each other or force the relationship to break apart for other reasons. This has been my experience time and time again. For a relationship to progress into a marriage, there needs to be some Saturn action, growth-oriented challenging aspects, a few nodal or angle connections, and significant progressions or transits to kick things off.

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Oh, thanks!

Yes I did read this a while ago.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Lotis,

like usually I can only nod to what you wrote.

"Makes sense, because the 12th house symbolizes how we are when we are alone, and what might be boiling below the surface that others aren't aware of."
Yes, that is what my experience and observation with the 12th composite house sais,t oo. It is actually a very intimate house.

"Venus in the 12th house may mean private affection and appreciation between a couple. Others who know them may not be aware of the true depth of warmth between them, or perhaps they tend to 'blindside' each other with expressions of affection."
I actually have that with the composite with someone. Venus in 12th house. (actually that Venus opposes my natal Saturn in 8th house exactly).

Anyway, I was totally blindsided and almost shocked, when I realized how much genuine sympathy and appreciation there was underneath (at least from my side).
I mean I was quite aware that for somer eason he triggered uncharacteristic physical responses in me, but at some point I had to realize that I actually "like" him, and strangely that felt more huge than admtiting I might be physically attracted to him. lol
But yeah, Venus in 12th composite house right there. Of course my Saturn went into a bit of shock mode right then. lol

"he Moon in the 12th house could mean a private deep emotional bond, and attachment for one another,"
Yes, that is what I oberve, too, in the composite of my parents (Cancer-Moon in 12th house), my brother and his girlfriend (actually they have not Moon, but Sun-Mercury-Venus in Pisces in 12th house) and my best friend and her husband (Pisces-Moon in 12th house).

They all have watery Moons anyway, so this might emphasize the emotional response

"omantically', it has a plationic expression as well (balancing each other with charm and assertiveness)."
Yes, exactly; the thing is the planetary aspects have not one single expression, but a certain rage of manifestation, according to their symbolism of course.

This is what makes it really difficult to use synastry for pure prediction ( will they? will they not?).

"By this, I mean synastry to the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses, via overlays or aspects to the house rulers."
Yes, and I would also add to that aspects to planets, which are placed in houses 5,7 and 8.

For me Saturn in 8th house is very certainly part of my relating profile. And everytime it gets triggered, there is a maybe uncharacteristical relationship oriented response triggered in me, too. He is still Saturn of course, so I do not say this is easy.

"Important connections to the angles from a partner is what gives them gravity, and significance, in our life. It makes them personal 'game-changers' for us"
Yes.
BTW I was specifically speaking about conjunctions here. I don´t think trines and sextiles are so strong. They still have their influence on the angles, of course, but the conjunctions to angles is what lifts a planet into the forefront, gives it centre stage, directing a laser beam or spotlight onto it.

"... Synastry connections to the Vertex (my personal favorite, because I think it activates attraction too!), "
yes, definitely. The Vertex is always located in houses 5, 6, 7 or 8, the relationship houses after all!

"Nodal Axis, "
Yes. nodes are about connections after all.

"Asc/Dsc, Mc/Ic, and the East Point/West Point Axis (Equatorial Asc/Dsc)"
yes. I haven`t really researched theEast Point enough. What do you think it means in practical terms and different fromt he other angles?

I am asking cause mine is around 2 or 4 Capricorn conjunct my Venus. Might be important.

"depending on our natal charts and experience, people like to have their natal charts aspected in particular ways, and different people have different amounts of tolerance for hard aspects in synastry."
that is a very vital point, that is neglected too much.

Mercury is such a romantic planet for me. Really.
And personally I do like conjunctions and squares; probably because I have them natally. My relationship profile is more on the heavy side with Venus in Capricorn square Pluto, ruler of 8th house in 2nd house (in Aquarius though) quinkunx Saturn; 5th house ruler in Capricorn square Pluto; Saturn in 8th house and so on.
You really stumble across this Saturn-Pluto mix in very different ways all the time, interlaced with a bit of Uranus and Jupiter.

I suppose that might be one reason I really only feel any kind of response when there are very tight conjunctions and squares in play. Give me a synastry with trines and sextiles, and I will not even raise my brow I suppose. Not that I don`t feel them, they ARE nice. But would Saturn-Pluto go for "nice"? nah, didn`t think so either.

However for someone with 5th house ruler in Libra conjunct Sun; 7th house ruler in Leo conjunct Jupiter and 8th house ruler in Sagittarius trine Venus - well this person might need something completely different.
And honestly I think, we would never fit in a relationship-context. LOL
We would want too different things.

" But, angle connections seem to be what anchors the connection in reality. As in, something actually happens!2
that is EXACTLY what I mean.

Actually I am slowly more and more giving priority attention to those synastry configuration, where at least one of the planets is right on an angle, in either chart.
Spotlighting.

"4. Do your mean transits and progressions? "
Yes.

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Nice way to break it down and explain it Ceri.

posted December 25, 2013 03:29 AM            

I especially loved these parts.

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:
- We unconsciously seek out people who represent our Descendant, even when we dislike the traits on that sign/of planets in the 7th.

- 5th, 7th and 8th house overlays can work in a platonic way too. The drinking buddy you go partying with (5th), someone you work well in a team with (or who makes one hell of a rival! - 7th), or a confidant you trust with things you normally wouldn't. (8th)
I'm curious if this is could explain the point people brought up here about not always being attracted to people who filled their romance houses.

Another one would be that if you have an empty house, maybe the house the ruler of in gives you a dealbreaker. Something you need before you will see that person in a different light.

Like if any of them falls into the first, you may need someone to think of you as beautiful the way you are. You want them to appreciate the way you look and generally handle things.
In the 3rd house - communication. If you can't talk to that person, if there's no click, nothing happens.
In the 10th - Someone ambitious and who respects your achievements - publically too.

But that doesn't mean conjunctions are always perceived as easy aspects. When someone has a planet, especially a personal one, that's very afflicted, a conjunction will set it all off again. They may not be able to or just don't want to handle the overwhelming energy. For those a trine could work better or a sextile. A nudge instead of full-on in-your-face.

- If any of the romance houses make harsh aspects to a lot of your planets, you may be better off with an aspect to the ruler instead of an overlay. Then you still get a romance vibe but without the harsh aspects that come with your houses.

- If someone has a conjunction to the rulers of their romance houses, that planet or the sign it normally rules can take over from the house with what they're attracted to. I think oppositions and harsh aspects natally work too. Like... someone with a Sagittarius Descendant has their Jupiter conjunct Venus. Though Libra or Taurus isn't in their pattern (nor is the 2nd or 7th house), they are very much attracted to Venusian types. And though the Mercury of someone with a Virgo DSC isn't in Cancer or the 4th house, a square to the Moon may still make them attracted to the sweet, nurturing types.

I also wonder if conjunctions to the 5th/7th/8th house ruler mean they take the matters of the house the conjunct planet rules with them in their attraction pattern. Like the 7th house ruler conjunct the ruler of the 5th - they want fun as well as a partnership.

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Aspects to the 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers are very significant, yes. There used to be a poster on this forum who had the 7th house ruler square Saturn, and she used to be married to a Capricorn (I think her name was ‘My Virgo Mask’). I’ve also seen a pair of synastry charts where one person had an Aries Dsc ruled by Mars in Cancer conjunct Saturn, and they too were married to a Cap (even though the 7th house ruler/Saturn conjunction occurred in Capricorn’s opposite sign, Cancer).

posted December 25, 2013 03:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Cz1l1:
Not sure if this is in keeping with this thread or if I'm doing the protocol correctly, so apology in advance - i'm a new member and find your ideas totally fab, Lotis. I wanted to share an odd pattern i've observed with a relationship I'm in - and interested in your opinion. Oddly, all our house cusps (except the mutable cross ones - 3,6,9,12) have the same secondary cusps. for example, 5th house cusps in Taurus and Libra, respectively, both ruled by venus, have secondary cusps in Capricorn. but it manifests differently. Capricorn (his sun sign) in the 2nd is very different than Capricorn on the descendent. 7th? Capricorn and Gemmy cusps, with 2nd cusps both in Pisces (10, 3rd). 8th? Cancer, Aquarius with 2nd cusps in Aries, and so on with the rest of the chart, minus the mutable ones I mentioned. Most of the cusp rulers connect in some way - positive and negative. But when you look at the charts without noting the cusp connections, it's not obvious how and why this relationship is going the distance that it has for over a year. The questions I have are does this cusp pattern "turn on" the houses they represent? And what does it mean to have a sign in different houses in terms of expectations and relating? Does a weak 5th house connection(comparatively) doom a relationship? Be happy to post the charts if interested. in any event, thanks for being so incredibly generous with your knowledge. so refreshing and helpful.

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Hi Cz1l1,

I wouldn't say that weak 5th house activation in synastry dooms a relationship. It depends on what someone's priorities are.