posted January 02, 2015 07:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Wow.

Vesta was tightly conjunct my progressed NN when my father died; and it was tightly conjunct my progressed SN when my mother died.

My father's Vesta was conjunct my progressed Neptune, and I've mentioned more striking Neptune aspects that day.

Strangely my mother died when the sun was transiting conjunct my father's Vesta.

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Wow Vesta is selfless service with no thought for oneself.

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posted January 02, 2015 08:10 AM            

I think we can say the Nodes are involved, somehow.

I think we can say Vesta will show up in charts, as well.

I think we should start with the actual chart without asteroids to see the foundations, as the above, although Vesta is more than an asteroid. It is a different planetary body, I think, a larger and more influential one.

We need Raymond for this

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posted January 02, 2015 09:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thanks Peluches & Ami Very interesting stuff...I didn't know tr sun was on Williams' Pluto when he died. :/

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You're welcome !

Yeah, and I noticed tMercury and tSun not far are conjunct nMC/nMercury (R8).

Also, for now I can only confirm your theory about progressed planets at very early or very late degrees. At the time of his death, in his progressed, MJ had ASC at 29 Taurus, Moon 29 Cap, and Mars (prR12) Rx 1 Gemini conjunct his ASC.

His prR8, as well as most of his angle rulers, were in his prH6, indicating the way he died (health). He had a packed prH6. Always in the progressed, his prSun was conjunct his prDestinn at 25 and 26 Libra respectively.

Wow. Just wanted to add something that probably doesn't belong here : I remember from a progressed synastry thread, mir noticed that a the time two people met, there was a connection between the nSuns/nMoons/prSuns/prMoons. I "met" MJ when I was nine years old ; unfortunately I knew him only by his death and the big piece of news that that triggered. I immediately became a huge fan and loved him so much, and only now do I see that at the time we "met", my nSun (24 Lib) was conjunct his prSun (25 Lib).

posted January 02, 2015 10:21 AM            

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posted January 02, 2015 10:38 AM            

@Peluches: Amazing, all of that.

Just checked my pr composite with my father for the day he died. Our pr comp sun @ 0 Aquarius. I don't have his birth time but was surprised that using noon as my default, pr comp moon @29 Taurus.

When my mother died, my pr comp with my father had Pluto @ 29 Leo and our pr comp sun conjunct my sun, less than 1* orb.

My pr comp with her, the day she died, has a kite with Sag Mercury at the apex, conjunct the transiting sun. *freaky*

Mercury apex Sag 14
Saturn base Gem 14
Uranus Leo 14
Tr Jupiter Leo 13
Jupiter-Mars Aries 10

pr comp Atropos 16 Cancer, opposing my sun. (And that is just a huge degree in my family, many conjunctions there.)

Tr Atropos 29 Gemini

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In my parents' pr comp chart the day my father died:

pr comp Mercury 15 Sag

^^ There's that number again.

In their pr comp when my mother died:

posted January 02, 2015 11:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
You can go off topic, P dear!

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posted January 02, 2015 11:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^

@Peluches: Amazing, all of that.

Just checked my pr composite with my father for the day he died. Our pr comp sun @ 0 Aquarius. I don't have his birth time but was surprised that using noon as my default, pr comp moon @29 Taurus.

When my mother died, my pr comp with my father had Pluto @ 29 Leo and our pr comp sun conjunct my sun, less than 1* orb.

My pr comp with her, the day she died, has a kite with Sag Mercury at the apex, conjunct the transiting sun. *freaky*

Mercury apex Sag 14
Saturn base Gem 14
Uranus Leo 14
Tr Jupiter Leo 13
Jupiter-Mars Aries 10

pr comp Atropos 16 Cancer, opposing my sun. (And that is just a huge degree in my family, many conjunctions there.)

Tr Atropos 29 Gemini

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In my parents' pr comp chart the day my father died:

pr comp Mercury 15 Sag

^^ There's that number again.

In their pr comp when my mother died:

Atropos 29 Cancer (conjunct my Saturn)
pr comp sun-Mercury 20-21 Scorpio conjunct my NN
pr comp NN 24 Leo conjunct her sun

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Wow. In all the synastry charts I've gone through deeply, there seems to be one or two specific degrees (in any sign) that are, most of the time, related to the karmic side of the relationship. If triggered by a major transit or progression, something big will happen. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case also for deaths.

As for MJ, I think his degree might be 19. I'm not sure yet though, but in his natal he has :

- IC/MC axis at 19 Gem/Sag (I have no idea why, but I've read that this axis is karmic, and has always been present in karmic relationships of mine)
- Saturn on MC at 19 Sag, sextile
- Chiron at 19 Aqua, square
- Asteroid Porta Coeli (gateway to Heaven) at 19 Sco

- Venus at 17 Leo
- Vertex at 21 Virgo

posted January 02, 2015 12:30 PM            

I agree that certain degrees just pop up repeatedly and beg for attention, though I'm rather unschooled about karma and hardly ever think about it.

posted January 02, 2015 12:32 PM            

Progressions and transits for the day he died:

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^^

Tr NN 7 Cap conjunct pr sun 8 Cap

Tr nodal axis tightly square his progressed nodal axis: pr NN 6 Libra.

Tr Neptune 4 Sag conjunct natal sun-ASC

Tr sun-Mercury applying to conjunction with pr Chiron @ 29 Cancer
*quincunx*
Pr Atropos 29 Sag
Pr Mercury 1 Cap

Mars rules the head, I think? And his death was attributed to brain swelling, after taking medicine he had a fatal reaction to. That's sudden and strange. Also he had been having seizures before that. So it totally fits that:

Tr Mars 18 Aries
Tr Uranus 19 Libra

posted January 02, 2015 12:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
We've been talking about Bruce Lee on another thread so I have this chart handy to post ~

Progressions and transits for the day he died:

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^^

Tr NN 7 Cap conjunct pr sun 8 Cap

Tr nodal axis tightly square his progressed nodal axis: pr NN 6 Libra.

Tr Neptune 4 Sag conjunct natal sun-ASC

Tr sun-Mercury applying to conjunction with pr Chiron @ 29 Cancer
*quincunx*
Pr Atropos 29 Sag
Pr Mercury 1 Cap

Mars rules the head, I think? And his death was attributed to brain swelling, after taking medicine he had a fatal reaction to. That's sudden and strange. Also he had been having seizures before that. So it totally fits that:

Tr Mars 18 Aries
Tr Uranus 19 Libra

Lee's pr Mars 26 Scorpio
His p Uranus 22 Taurus

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Thanks for the chart !

This is weird. In MJ's charts I noticed there was a thing about his 5th house cusp, and also his 11th house ruler. I didn't pay much attention to them because traditionally, H5 and H11 are not related to death, but... here tUranus conjuncts Bruce Lee's nH11 cusp, as well as Chiron conjuncts his nH5 cusp. I'll check some other charts for the H5/H11 axis.

posted January 02, 2015 02:13 PM            

5H -> sun -> self
11H -> Uranus -> chaos

On a different note, tr sun conjunct tr Pluto today so no wonder we've been looking at death charts a lot. Timely.

posted January 03, 2015 10:11 AM            

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posted January 03, 2015 03:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lonake:
You're absolutely right, Vajra. The ancients were a "morbid" bunch, and were incredibly detailed.

I think Ami might be looking for material for an article on her site, perhaps. And I don't reckon that she's a traditional/classical astrologer, but Ami if you want to correct me on this matter?

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I do my own thing, as many people know. I study various subjects and then do enough charts that I feel I have a workable theory.

I study others to get a foundation but my true theories are always made from doing charts.

I thought I would try to simplify the topic of death.

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posted January 03, 2015 04:38 PM            

When we say death can't be predicted, how would the Kennedy Assasination fall in there, do you think?

Astrologers begged him not to go to Dallas.

What do you think, Lonake?

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posted January 03, 2015 04:40 PM            

Yep, there are amazing intellects here, Lonake

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posted January 03, 2015 05:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Astrologers begged him not to go to Dallas.

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This popped up:

quote:

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Jeane Dixon’s primary claim to fame was that she predicted several tragedies that involved celebrities and other famous people. It had been amply documented in the news media that in 1963 Jean Dixon indirectly tried to warn President John F. Kennedy not to go to Dallas, Texas, shortly before his fatal assassination there. She predicted the exact day he was assassinated and identified part of Lee Harvey Oswald’s last name as the killer. This prediction goes back to 1952, when Dixon says she was standing before a statue of the Virgin Mary the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle in Washington, D.C. She says a bright image of the White House appeared to her with the number “1960″ above it. She said a dark cloud formed around this number and dropped down unto the building below, like “chocalote frosting on a cake.” A blue-eyed, young man stood there with thick brown hair. She perceived he was a Democrat politician, that he would become the U.S. president in 1960, and die a violent death while in office. In 1956, Parade Magazine interviewed Jeane Dixon about this and published an article about it. As time proceeded, Dixon gained further revelation about it that was often reported in the media. In January, 1963, she predicted JFK would be dead before the end of the year. In April, 1963, she predicted he would be shot. On November 13, she predicted he would be “assassinated if he traveled down South.” On November 22, the day Kennedy was assassinated, she announced before it occurred, “this is the day it will happen.” All of this and much more about Jeane Dixon and media sources that reported her predictions before they occurred are contained in an online article at http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1520/psychic_in_the_white_house.html.

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Pretty unreal. To say the least.

This is the only link I clicked, does this jibe with your knowledge of the prediction? Was it due to a vision?

posted January 03, 2015 05:21 PM            

When I was really young, I studied her. I have been totally fascinated with her my whole life.

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posted January 03, 2015 05:23 PM            

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posted January 04, 2015 10:26 AM            

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posted January 04, 2015 09:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thank you Infinite Nebula

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