posted February 14, 2015 04:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lisalisa:
Is it common for this placement to hide your true feelings? And cover it up with lies, but give hints so people start to think you feel, and if asked about it, deny it..

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posted February 14, 2015 04:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
peony,

Your analysis is spot on for me. I am a rescuer, and have attracted unavailable men before. After the last drama, which was especially heartbreaking for me, I took a step back and started re-evaluating my unconscious patterns, and 1 part is the 'rescuing' energy, which I realised needs to be invested in other areas rather than suppressed and ignored. I started doing volunteer work and am at great peace with myself, I've discovered a lot of early-life suppressed memories about wanting to work with human rights and help people, but as I got older I drifted in other directions. Now I'm making my way back to my life's purpose slowly. In terms of romance, I haven't met anyone new yet, but my expectations have already shifted - I want a real partner now, not someone to save. What I've realised is that romantic interactions are so powerful and we as human beings project a lot onto them, which often leads to attracting the wrong people. Once you realign with your inner authority, I think better relationships start coming along. At least I hope so
My Venus is in the 12th House, it squares Pluto and the Moon (Pluto and Moon are opposite) and it also conjuncts my Ascendant.
What is your view, what else can be done in order to deal with these placements? What did you do?

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SaturnFan, I am having chills as I read your post. Namaste to you and everyone who took the time to comment on this thread. You've articulated what I believe is the key to unlocking the blessings of Venus in the 12H.

I will answer your questions when I return from work.

posted February 14, 2015 04:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Saturn and Uranus represent very difficult archetypal principles and integrating them is challenging for us all, but perhaps easier when we get older and hopefully wiser. Also, people with Venus-Saturn in major aspect tend to have their most significant relationship later in life.

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I did, however, get a bit wiser over the years, especially after I started being interested in astrology and actually becoming aware of my "crazy Venus syndrome", as I like to call it. I stopped falling for unavailable guys, and, if I feel even the slightest sign of me trying to do it again, I mentally ***** slap myself until I come to my senses.

posted February 14, 2015 04:22 PM            

Even after all this time,
the Sun never says to the Moon,
"you owe me."

Look what happens with a love like that,
it lights the whole sky.

posted February 14, 2015 04:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
A poem on Venus in the 12H

Even after all this time,
the Sun never says to the Moon,
"you owe me."

Look what happens with a love like that,
it lights the whole sky.

Hafiz

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posted February 14, 2015 06:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LexusVirgo:
I have Venus in the 12th. I was picked on when I was little and didn't really feel beautiful. Now, People tell me I am beautiful and I don't believe them. I attract unavailable men alot.

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posted February 14, 2015 10:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kibriana:
I did, however, get a bit wiser over the years, especially after I started being interested in astrology and actually becoming aware of my "crazy Venus syndrome", as I like to call it. I stopped falling for unavailable guys, and, if I feel even the slightest sign of me trying to do it again, I mentally ***** slap myself until I come to my senses.

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Congratulations. lol

I meant to say "Saturn and Uranus represent very different archetypal principles..." Freudian slip perhaps.

posted February 14, 2015 11:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
peony,

Your analysis is spot on for me. I am a rescuer, and have attracted unavailable men before. After the last drama, which was especially heartbreaking for me, I took a step back and started re-evaluating my unconscious patterns, and 1 part is the 'rescuing' energy, which I realised needs to be invested in other areas rather than suppressed and ignored. I started doing volunteer work and am at great peace with myself, I've discovered a lot of early-life suppressed memories about wanting to work with human rights and help people, but as I got older I drifted in other directions. Now I'm making my way back to my life's purpose slowly. In terms of romance, I haven't met anyone new yet, but my expectations have already shifted - I want a real partner now, not someone to save. What I've realised is that romantic interactions are so powerful and we as human beings project a lot onto them, which often leads to attracting the wrong people. Once you realign with your inner authority, I think better relationships start coming along. At least I hope so
My Venus is in the 12th House, it squares Pluto and the Moon (Pluto and Moon are opposite) and it also conjuncts my Ascendant.
What is your view, what else can be done in order to deal with these placements? What did you do?

---

Hmmm. The poet Edgar Allan Poe had a Moon-Venus-Pluto conjunction in Pisces. I mention him because he, like you, experienced romantic love (Venus) as very intense and powerful(Pluto).

Anyway, Moon-Pluto adds significant elements to Venus in the 12H making for a more complex picture than just considering Venus by itself. Also, if Venus is conjunct your Ascendant, depending on the number of degrees, if it's less than five, I'd say this is more a 1H Venus. It's like Venus is standing in the doorway between two rooms. It's leaving the 12H and entering the 1H.

Venus square Moon. I wonder if you were shy as a child and/or didn't feel the mother's affections.

Moon in major aspect to Pluto is often aware of the fragility of human ties and tends to keep people at a distance out of fear of abandonment and loss. I think the Venus Square Pluto is similar. But at the same time you can be obsessive in relationships, or focus so much on the other person that you lose sight of the love and connection inside. I still do this, even though I meditate every day. I've found that when I come back to myself and turn inwards and connect with the love inside, the anxiety disappears and I'm at peace.

Given your Moon-Venus-Pluto t-square, I would continue to do what you've been doing: uncover as much as you can about your own unconscious. I would study my dreams and keep them in a journal. I can't stress this enough: given your Moon-Pluto opposition, the more you make Pluto conscious, the less you'll experience its negative manifestations in the outer world. You may have already been exposed to something of this in childhood. Archetypally, Moon-Pluto is the "Dark Mother." If she is wholly an unconscious figure in the psyche, the Dark Mother can lure a person away from life and towards regression or death. But, you sound too self-aware to be at risk of that. Moon-Pluto has many manifestations, sometimes a mother who is mentally ill, sometimes there's an early encounter with death or loss. Moon-Pluto can also be a person who has an incredible capacity for forgiveness and the capacity to radically change themselves becoming healers or therapists.

One thing I've done is holotropic breathwork. It was developed by a psychiatrist named Stan Grof who had to find an alternative to psychedelics in order to conduct his research into non-ordinary states of consciousness. Breathwork is an amazing tool for gaining access to the unconscious and the extraordinary depth and richness of the psyche.

posted February 15, 2015 12:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 12muddy:
Cap venus in the 12th (in a stellium).

How I experience it. Hmm I idealize love. The more rational part of me knows that it may one day be my downfall but heh thanks to the 12th house influence I don't even mind. I've always thought that it "makes" my life. Without it I would just merely exist. And that thought is too much to bear.

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12muddy, Is Venus in aspect to Neptune?

posted February 15, 2015 12:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lisalisa:
Is it common for this placement to hide your true feelings? And cover it up with lies, but give hints so people start to think you feel, and if asked about it, deny it..

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I think the Venus sign and aspects together would fit your description, but not just Venus in the 12H.

If this is a person and not a hypothetical question, they sound very insecure and afraid trying to cope the only way they can and don't know a better way. Perhaps Venus in hard aspect to Saturn.

posted February 15, 2015 12:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Einfühlung:
My taurus is in 12th. Does that mean my venus is in 12th house? My venus is in gemini but taurus is the ruler of venus.. So.. I'm confused..

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Taurus is on the cusp of your 12H. That means Venus is the ruler of your 12H. That's not the same as Venus in the 12H. But, I saw your chart info on another thread. Yes, your Venus is in Gemini in the 12H.

posted February 15, 2015 07:16 AM            

WOW. This was amazing and so insightful - thank you so much for taking the time to write this great response. I'll break it down below, because it has so many layers!

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Hmmm. The poet Edgar Allan Poe had a Moon-Venus-Pluto conjunction in Pisces. I mention him because he, like you, experienced romantic love (Venus) as very intense and powerful(Pluto).

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That's good to know, I'm familiar only with a small fraction of his work - will look into it more!

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Anyway, Moon-Pluto adds significant elements to Venus in the 12H making for a more complex picture than just considering Venus by itself. Also, if Venus is conjunct your Ascendant, depending on the number of degrees, if it's less than five, I'd say this is more a 1H Venus. It's like Venus is standing in the doorway between two rooms. It's leaving the 12H and entering the 1H.

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Venus conjuncts my Ascendant by 0°18s so it's definitely barely hanging in the 12H. I have however experienced a lot of the 12H Venus characteristics in my life so far - predominately in attracting and falling for unavailable men, or men who need saving (or a combination of both). I was in a relationship with a guy a few years ago, who was addicted to pills and alcohol - this is very 12H-y I think. All I've read on my placements so far points to having to practice and learn self-love (e.g. my North Node is in the 1H), so I think this is the way to escape the negative manifestations of Venus-barely-in-12H.

Just one more point, my Venus-Pluto Square has a Saturn-Uranus conjunction at its midpoint - this could also be contributing.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Venus square Moon. I wonder if you were shy as a child and/or didn't feel the mother's affections.

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quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Moon in major aspect to Pluto is often aware of the fragility of human ties and tends to keep people at a distance out of fear of abandonment and loss. I think the Venus Square Pluto is similar. But at the same time you can be obsessive in relationships, or focus so much on the other person that you lose sight of the love and connection inside. I still do this, even though I meditate every day. I've found that when I come back to myself and turn inwards and connect with the love inside, the anxiety disappears and I'm at peace.

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This is incredibly accurate. Especially the fear of loss, and this includes loss to death more so than loss to abandonment. When I've had an argument with a close person, I always get this fear that they might get accidentally hit by a car (or something abrupt of this kind) and our last interaction would have been an argument, which is literally an unbearable thought for me. I've always wanted to resolve conflicts fast for this reason since I was a child. Had no idea this was the Pluto influence - wow. The first time I experienced death of a close one was when my grandfather died when I was 12, which was years after I developed my ungrounded fear of sudden loss. Have never been able to explain that to myself until I considered Pluto now.

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Given your Moon-Venus-Pluto t-square, I would continue to do what you've been doing: uncover as much as you can about your own unconscious. I would study my dreams and keep them in a journal. I can't stress this enough: given your Moon-Pluto opposition, the more you make Pluto conscious, the less you'll experience its negative manifestations in the outer world. You may have already been exposed to something of this in childhood. Archetypally, Moon-Pluto is the "Dark Mother." If she is wholly an unconscious figure in the psyche, the Dark Mother can lure a person away from life and towards regression or death. But, you sound too self-aware to be at risk of that. Moon-Pluto has many manifestations, sometimes a mother who is mentally ill, sometimes there's an early encounter with death or loss. Moon-Pluto can also be a person who has an incredible capacity for forgiveness and the capacity to radically change themselves becoming healers or therapists.

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I'll definitely work on this, because clearly there's a lot more I need to re-discover about myself. Coincidentally, trPluto entered my 12H just a few weeks ago, so this is the best time to work on the subconscious

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
One thing I've done is holotropic breathwork. It was developed by a psychiatrist named Stan Grof who had to find an alternative to psychedelics in order to conduct his research into non-ordinary states of consciousness. Breathwork is an amazing tool for gaining access to the unconscious and the extraordinary depth and richness of the psyche.

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Thank you so much for this suggestion, I'll research it now!

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
Finally, as you've discovered, resolving your t-square lies with developing the qualities of the sign and house opposite your Venus.

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posted February 15, 2015 08:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by deepseablues:
I have experienced Venus in the 12th something like this: an extreme over-idealization of love when young, then having heart crushed when realized others don't believe in nor live up to this ideal. Then finally finding what felt like "my perfect relationship" and was soooo in love and happy for two years only to crush my own heart and love-idealization by accidentally falling in love at first sight with someone I could never have and who would never reciprocate, then spending the next three years of my relationship wallowing in confusion and depression over my feelings for another person whom I could never have and hating myself for having the feelings in the first place, realizing my idealization of love is impossible and that if I can't even live up to it than I can't expect others to, also worrying that the same thing would happen to my partner at the time.

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deepseablues, that sounds like a lot of drama and turmoil. Also, perfect example of impossible love in there too.

[/QUOTE] accidentally falling in love.[/QUOTE]

Do you think there are any accidents when it comes to falling in love? Or am I just being a dead giveaway of Venus in the 12H? lol

posted February 15, 2015 08:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Supermeggs12:
Venus in virgo twelth house.

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That suggests to me that you are rather shy, and there's always a part of you that is for you alone and that you don't share with anyone. Is this true?

posted February 15, 2015 09:56 PM            

I've always been attracted to people I can't have. The first person I ever "loved" was one of my teachers all throughout high school. Then a guy twelve years my senior when I was just graduating. I don't know why, maybe it's because when you can't have them, you'll forever be blind to their faults. Whenever I start to like someone Neptune takes over and I'll create a perfect fantasy of all-consuming love that can never be shattered because most of the time it never gets to the stage in a relationship where human faults are revealed. I'm not sure if it's because of this placement but I do have a fear of intimacy even though I crave it.

posted February 15, 2015 10:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by barbriallen:
Venus in Pisces in the 12th

I've always been attracted to people I can't have. The first person I ever "loved" was one of my teachers all throughout high school. Then a guy twelve years my senior when I was just graduating. I don't know why, maybe it's because when you can't have them, you'll forever be blind to their faults. Whenever I start to like someone Neptune takes over and I'll create a perfect fantasy of all-consuming love that can never be shattered because most of the time it never gets to the stage in a relationship where human faults are revealed. I'm not sure if it's because of this placement but I do have a fear of intimacy even though I crave it.

And yes, I can be "shy, socially awkward, or reclusive" even though my Aries Sun tries to push past that most of the time

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barbriallen, thanks for your comments.

I think Venus in Pisces is maybe the most romantic placement of all, besides Venus in Leo, but being in the 12H house takes romantic love to the ultimate and archetypal level. This is the love that is unbounded, that transcends time and space, that spans lifetimes. I think any planet in the 12H house is larger than life, exaggerated because of its proximity to the archetypal and the unconscious. It's hard to be balanced, to be sensible, let alone grounded, in matters of this house.

posted February 15, 2015 10:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
That suggests to me that you are rather shy, and there's always a part of you that is for you alone and that you don't share with anyone. Is this true?

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posted February 15, 2015 10:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by peony:
barbriallen, thanks for your comments.

I think Venus in Pisces is maybe the most romantic placement of all, besides Venus in Leo, but being in the 12H house takes romantic love to the ultimate and archetypal level. This is the love that is unbounded, that transcends time and space, that spans lifetimes. I think any planet in the 12H house is larger than life, exaggerated because of its proximity to the archetypal and the unconscious. It's hard to be balanced, to be sensible, let alone grounded, in matters of this house.

My Venus is square Neptune, which is similar to Venus in Pisces. Speaking only for myself, it may be something different for you, I think my attraction to people who are unavailable in one sense is because of a yearning for the ultimate Love, and the Greatest Romance of them all, which is union with the Divine. Wanting the ideal Beloved is a powerful magnet that has drawn me away from "real" life, therefore subconsciously choosing people that would allow me to maintain the ideal image, meaning people who were unavailable. I think I've come to a point where I've been able to separate the two levels, the archetypal from the personal, so that I'm not conflating the two, seeking the one (ideal) in the other (human).

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posted February 16, 2015 12:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Same placement and yes. Extremely true!!
There are many parts of myself, more than most, that I never share with anyone and I love being alone.
Also enjoy darkness (as in little to no light). Still thinking about that one. LOL But thought it to be too silly to ask about.

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DF, I don't think it's silly at all. You have a very active 12H and particularly with Venus there, the darkness is a source of pleasure. The 12H is shrouded in mystery or darkness, although Depth Psychology in the 20th century has pulled back the curtain somewhat.

In esoteric astrology, Virgo is the personality life or matrix that in earlier incarnations conceals, but when the soul evolves to a certain point nurtures and brings to birth the Light Presence. I tend to stay away from Christian terminology, but in that tradition, the Light Presence is synonymous with Christ.

posted February 16, 2015 12:56 AM            

"That's good to know, I'm familiar only with a small fraction of his work - will look into it more!"

On second thought, you might like the movie "Resurrection." It's an old one. Rosalyn Bruyere, a well respected psychic healer and teacher was the consultant for the film. If you haven't seen it, it reminds me of the trials that a novice in training goes through in order to become a shaman, the whole death-rebirth drama, but the events are not ritually staged as it happens in indigenous cultures, they happen in the character's life. It's a powerful movie that I've seen again and again.

With Venus and Moon square Pluto, I also recommend a book written by Sylvia Brinton Perera "Descent to the Goddess." Myth and story give insights into the meanings of these placements that descriptions alone can't. Perera uses a Sumerian myth revolving around the Goddess Inanna's descent into the Underworld as a frame of reference working with women in therapy. It's a small book but packed with rich insights and depth. Some familiarity with Jungian terminology is needed though.

posted February 16, 2015 01:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
peony,

This is Leo, 7H (which also hosts my South Node), and Venus is in a 5° opposition with Lilith. Definitely a lot to explore there!

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I'm not so well versed on the nodes and asteroids, so take it for what it's worth. With South Node in Leo, that suggests you don't need to develop the Leo qualities, you've already done that, so it's probably easier for you to resolve the t-square.

[/B][/QUOTE]We now have a more balanced relationship, but she was dictatorial when I was a kid - this might be more of a Pluto-Moon manifestation as far as I understand.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, it's Pluto-Moon.

[/B][/QUOTE]This is incredibly accurate. Especially the fear of loss, and this includes loss to death more so than loss to abandonment. When I've had an argument with a close person, I always get this fear that they might get accidentally hit by a car (or something abrupt of this kind) and our last interaction would have been an argument, which is literally an unbearable thought for me. I've always wanted to resolve conflicts fast for this reason since I was a child. Had no idea this was the Pluto influence - wow. The first time I experienced death of a close one was when my grandfather died when I was 12, which was years after I developed my ungrounded fear of sudden loss. Have never been able to explain that to myself until I considered Pluto now.[/B][/QUOTE]

I've suspected for some time that Pluto is connected with past life experiences. Your fear of losing someone after an argument with them makes me wonder if this is a memory from a past life.