posted November 19, 2015 09:00 PM            

I don't dislike any of you. It's a heated disagreement. I got caught up in it myself and I'm sorry for that. I just get irritated with finger pointing. I've seen barriers be broken. I know how it's done and I suppose that it is a deeply rooted frustration that it's not larger scale.
Very sad.

posted November 19, 2015 09:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Pathetic.

I swear people have thought of everything to call themselves "oppressed" and 1 million ways that we're racist.
The white person is in such position that they can do no right, only wrong.
That's what I'm getting.
You want to be treated equal and when someone does it's called "colour blind racism".

Absurd.

Why don't you all focus on love instead of the negative thinking of feeling oppressed and how you're different.
Just love. When I'm treated differently based on my race I just think it's sad, because it is. But the only thing that will change it is me when I show them that I actually don't care about color and that I care despite our unimportant outer differences. Calling it out and finger pointing and saying that someone is privileged based on race will [b]NEVER get the desired result. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Ever hear that?
This world is so screwed up, I swear.
You're only going to upset people, that's it.

I've made so many friends who were not fond of white people and I didn't do it by pointing out where I thought they were flawed. (Though this thread seems to be different). I did it by persevering and having genuine kindness and caring.
People these days have it so wrong. [/B]

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Your suggested focus is on love, but do you think that love can function without understanding, empathy, and compassion? Or do you think that love just sits in a parked car with no keys?

The thing I was running over, were just terms and concepts. "Colorblind racism" is merely that, dismissing the effects that the social construct of race has on a person who is not seen in a certain society as white or Western European.

Those folks you know that used to hate white folks, why did they hate white people before they met you? And do you speak for all white people or do they speak for all non-white people?

That last question is meant to be rhetorical but you can choose to answer it if you want.

posted November 19, 2015 10:07 PM            

As a white person who is not racist.
I can only compare it to being lumped in with Nazis because I'm German. (I'm not German - example only) Not you to me obviously but in the eyes of a stranger.

Obviously we're individuals. We can choose to be vindictive or to allow our scars to hold us back or we can work on positive change.
Or we can point to our scars and make the world acknowledge the pain we've suffered.
Only one seems productive. If you want to change the lives of many then you need to drop your personal issues and lead.
MLK as an example. Surely he suffered as anyone else but didn't make it a point to blow up his personal issues. He focused on leading to positive change. He was future focused, not past focused. He knew how it works. The world today thinks that blowing up every incident will change things. I assure you. It's getting worse because of it. Just look at the division growing.
Can you honestly say that racial tension / division is getting better?

posted November 19, 2015 10:26 PM            

Racism is an institutionalized part of American culture, which began immediately with the genocide of the indigenous people in North and South America purely because they were considered inferior to the white colonizers that had the "innate intelligence" to "defeat" them. Really, weaponized materials and biological immunity to smallpox was a major help in conquering a very advanced people.

The American economy, for hundreds of years, was inextricably powered and indebted to the enslavement of Black Africans, whose entire captivity was reconciled by the fact they were "barbarians" and so physically different from the white settlers that it was easy to justify their inferiority through that alone. Phrenology was a "science" developed around the 18th century to quell anyone's sympathy towards Black Americans as biologically, they couldn't be suited towards anything other than being commanded by their masters.

Slavery was not race based in antiquity or in the middle ages until the "discovery" of these people by those once dominant European superpowers.

However, because of the 15th century, race relations in this country have always been a point of contention and still exist in disharmony to this day. Things did not get better after the Civil War, things did not get better after MLK, things did not get better after Barack Obama was elected President.

posted November 19, 2015 10:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Real quick.

As a white person who is not racist.
I can only compare it to being lumped in with Nazis because I'm German. (I'm not German - example only) Not you to me obviously but in the eyes of a stranger.

Obviously we're individuals. We can choose to be vindictive or to allow our scars to hold us back or we can work on positive change.
Or we can point to our scars and make the world acknowledge the pain we've suffered.
Only one seems productive. If you want to change the lives of many then you need to drop your personal issues and lead.
MLK as an example. Surely he suffered as anyone else but didn't make it a point to blow up his personal issues. He focused on leading to positive change. He was future focused, not past focused. He knew how it works. The world today thinks that blowing up every incident will change things. I assure you. It's getting worse because of it. Just look at the division growing.
Can you honestly say that anything is getting better?

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You have got to be kidding me. MLK didn't focus on his personal issues? What? That he was an African American man being treated as only half human because of his skin color? That the south was segregated based on skin color?

Do you think that personal issues or "scars" don't drive people to make the world a better place? Then why would someone who has been treated terribly by the world that they live in be driven to change that?

Are you kidding me?

posted November 19, 2015 10:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:

It's getting worse because of it. Just look at the division growing.
Can you honestly say that racial tension / division is getting better?

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The division has ALWAYS been there and awareness is always a better place than silence and ignorance. That's why dialogue is key to exposing that ignorance. It's happening, it has always been happening. The only thing that is different is that those voices are getting louder and we have to start listening to what they're saying.

posted November 19, 2015 11:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by athenaia:
Leeloo, I respectfully disagree but I see that we come from two very different parts of the world and I'm sure the nature of racism is an entirely different beast from where you live in comparison to here

Racism is an institutionalized part of American culture, which began immediately with the genocide of the indigenous people in North and South America purely because they were considered inferior to the white colonizers that had the "innate intelligence" to "defeat" them. Really, weaponized materials and biological immunity to smallpox was a major help in conquering a very advanced people.

The American economy, for hundreds of years, was inextricably powered and indebted to the enslavement of Black Africans, whose entire captivity was reconciled by the fact they were "barbarians" and so physically different from the white settlers that it was easy to justify their inferiority through that alone. Phrenology was a "science" developed around the 18th century to quell anyone's sympathy towards Black Americans as biologically, they couldn't be suited towards anything other than being commanded by their masters.

Slavery was not race based in antiquity or in the middle ages until the "discovery" of these people by those once dominant European superpowers.

However, because of the 15th century, race relations in this country have always been a point of contention and still exist in disharmony to this day. Things did not get better after the Civil War, things did not get better after MLK, things did not get better after Barack Obama was elected President.

This thread saddens me. I wish I didn't revisit it but this is the last time I'm gonna speak my piece on here. Peace y'all.

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posted November 19, 2015 11:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cchampliss2:
The division has ALWAYS been there and awareness is always a better place than silence and ignorance. That's why dialogue is key to exposing that ignorance. It's happening, it has always been happening. The only thing that is different is that those voices are getting louder and we have to start listening to what they're saying.

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Listening is important

posted November 20, 2015 12:47 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
The fact that you get to never think of yourself as white illustrates the imbalance. People of colour don't have the option to just not think about it because they're treated differently on account of their skin colour! The fact that white is seen as a non-race IS white privilege.

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That is true, when we're experiencing discrimination (which believe me I have, despite my "whiteness") we are made to think, every day, of our different skin color, that we are women, poor etc.
The solution to this is:
- contribution to politically and socially requesting equal rights in your community (equal means no mentioning of races/skin colors, disregarding those)
- not seeing yourself and others as a POC and promoting this around you

The solution is not a thread promoting a celebration of race in astrology.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted November 20, 2015 06:31 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenaia:
Leeloo, I respectfully disagree but I see that we come from two very different parts of the world and I'm sure the nature of racism is an entirely different beast from where you live in comparison to here

Racism is an institutionalized part of American culture, which began immediately with the genocide of the indigenous people in North and South America purely because they were considered inferior to the white colonizers that had the "innate intelligence" to "defeat" them. Really, weaponized materials and biological immunity to smallpox was a major help in conquering a very advanced people.

The American economy, for hundreds of years, was inextricably powered and indebted to the enslavement of Black Africans, whose entire captivity was reconciled by the fact they were "barbarians" and so physically different from the white settlers that it was easy to justify their inferiority through that alone. Phrenology was a "science" developed around the 18th century to quell anyone's sympathy towards Black Americans as biologically, they couldn't be suited towards anything other than being commanded by their masters.

Slavery was not race based in antiquity or in the middle ages until the "discovery" of these people by those once dominant European superpowers.

However, because of the 15th century, race relations in this country have always been a point of contention and still exist in disharmony to this day. Things did not get better after the Civil War, things did not get better after MLK, things did not get better after Barack Obama was elected President.

This thread saddens me. I wish I didn't revisit it but this is the last time I'm gonna speak my piece on here. Peace y'all.

---

This is addressed to champliss as well. Thank you for the history lesson, but I'm perfectly aware of these things. Just because I live in Europe it doesn't mean I don't know about African slaves or the NA massacres, honestly, what was that? NO ONE, at least not me, has ever contested here people are and have been discriminated based on their skin color. But this insistence for alleged equality (as our common goal) and the non-existence of races while at the same time considering yourself a person of color is pure antagonism. There are people here who are upset with me and DG and others and offended because we refuse to see them as people of color. How twisted is that? Well, excuse me, I am not a racist, I can't offer you that.

This doesn't mean racial discrimination doesn't exist in this world, it just means your way of addressing it, the solution you propose to eliminate it, is wrong in my view. It also means you are bringing racism in astrology, where it doesn't belong.

It's as if you're saying you feel discriminated because astrologers don't mention the race of the subjects, and how cool it is that there are famous people of color, not just whites, let's put them aside on a list, based on their race (excuse me, that was a very lame and patronizing part to say: see, minorities can do it too, as if anyone in astrology is doubting this, how is this not racism and promoting racial constructs?

But wounds related to discrimination are indeed not easy to address and heal.

About the US, I don't live there, but I highly doubt things are the same as during the Civil War. It's a very long way to true equality between races, genders, and other types of prejudice, and for changing mentalities, but color blindness is the desired outcome, no?

DG, I agree with your posts, and I liked how you explained your view

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted November 20, 2015 08:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
I haven't read any further posts and won't be.

Just an fyi in case anyone is expecting a response.
[b]Clearly I'm being misunderstood, which is typical and past experience has taught me that it's absolutely hopeless when that happens. [/B]

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If you are going to have longevity on LL, you HAVE to ignore people who harass you.

The internet is worse than real life because people can hide behind the computer and be bad azz.

You did right to disengage.

If you watch me, I simply ignore people who harass me.

Blessings! xxx

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