posted July 22, 2016 05:46 PM            

Even an early Scorpio rising chart would give you Saturn and Pluto in the 12th, which is fitting for a therapist. I'd say watch transits of the fire planets through the fixed signs and see what shows when you have events of a personal nature take place.

Right now Mars is 26° Scorpio.

posted July 24, 2016 02:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
each case should be reassessed keeping this in mind considering in some cases no change will need to be made.

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Absolutely, I think that in most cases charts do require rectification.

The time of birth can be more or less accurate depending on many factors. In my case, due to circumstances, it just seems to be pretty fitting.

posted July 24, 2016 02:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I wonder if when the mother starts having contractions if that could be a good reference point for the spiritual birth?

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That would be interesting!

posted July 24, 2016 06:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I wonder if when the mother starts having contractions if that could be a good reference point for the spiritual birth?

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Unfortunately, no, at least not within the framework as I see it now. But I'll give it some thought. The reason I think not is that some labors go on for an extended period of time well outside the 5-hour time window. My mom was in labor for something like 13 hours with me. So, no we cannot go back 13 hours previous to the time of delivery to find the correct Asc.

I really wish I had more convincing evidence for what has been outlined on this, which has only been published by John Willner and Edgar Cayce (that I know of). The lineage of the incarnation theory is modern, but still poorly traced.

I've bemoaned the fact that this modern knowledge has been kept in the 'occult closet'. Willner was a bit obscure, a great observer, but not the best teacher/communicator (Scorpio rising).

Cayce in his trances spoke in a kind of arcane King James English that could be hard to follow when he got fired up on spiritual topics. Even Cayce-philes often miss out on essential concepts because his syntax seems to prevent formulating a clear picture of what was meant. Often querents did not even know how to formulate appropriate, answerable questions on obscure or metaphysical topics, so Cayce had to answer as straightfowardly as he could based on the words they chose. Sometimes he took a longer route to a more revealing answer the querent did not even know how to ask for.

For example, Cayce used three different terms to refer to the birth process: birth physical, birth spiritual, and soul birth. The ones applicable to astrology are birth physical and birth spiritual. Birth 'physical' is obvious, referring to the moment of delivery of the newborn. Birth spiritual refers to the moment of decision by the incoming soul to commit to being that human in that body -- attaching the soul's etheric cord to the infant body.

Obviously we understand 'birth' from the biological/material side as if the mother generates it from her "pushing." It is not this that gives the incoming soul their rising sign/Asc. They select it during the convergence of the biological and spiritual birth processes.

In spite of the fact that in at least a couple readings Cayce clearly defined these three aspects of birth separately from each other, querents repeatedly confused 'soul' and 'spiritual' birth, and often wrongly applied the terms back to him in their queries. At times he corrected them. Other times he talked past it to get to the most important points.

It is only with an in-depth study of the Cayce readings that give information anomalous to astrological practice that the picture starts to clarify. Willner helped tremendously with that. I have endeavored to do the best research I can into those readings and will again in the future.

If anyone out there has contacts at the ARE/Edgar Cayce Foundation who could help with this, please, pass it along to me directly in email (found at my website). I was not able to renew my ARE membership last summer to continue my research, but hope to do so soon.

There are a number of facets of research into this that could be done, and if anyone is interested, I'm happy to correspond with you and coordinate our efforts.

Meanwhile, we study and apply verifiable information of zodiac signs, planets, and astrological patterns best we can to arrive at the most accurate charts.

posted July 24, 2016 11:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Unfortunately, no, at least not within the framework as I see it now. But I'll give it some thought. The reason I think not is that some labors go on for an extended period of time well outside the 5-hour time window. My mom was in labor for something like 13 hours with me. So, no we cannot go back 13 hours previous to the time of delivery to find the correct Asc.

I really wish I had more convincing evidence for what has been outlined on this, which has only been published by John Willner and Edgar Cayce (that I know of). The lineage of the incarnation theory is modern, but still poorly traced.

I've bemoaned the fact that this modern knowledge has been kept in the 'occult closet'. Willner was a bit obscure, a great observer, but not the best teacher/communicator (Scorpio rising).

Cayce in his trances spoke in a kind of arcane King James English that could be hard to follow when he got fired up on spiritual topics. Even Cayce-philes often miss out on essential concepts because his syntax seems to prevent formulating a clear picture of what was meant. Often querents did not even know how to formulate appropriate, answerable questions on obscure or metaphysical topics, so Cayce had to answer as straightfowardly as he could based on the words they chose. Sometimes he took a longer route to a more revealing answer the querent did not even know how to ask for.

For example, Cayce used three different terms to refer to the birth process: birth physical, birth spiritual, and soul birth. The ones applicable to astrology are birth physical and birth spiritual. Birth 'physical' is obvious, referring to the moment of [b]delivery of the newborn. Birth spiritual refers to the moment of decision by the incoming soul to commit to being that human in that body -- attaching the soul's etheric cord to the infant body.

Obviously we understand 'birth' from the biological/material side as if the mother generates it from her "pushing." It is no this that gives the incoming soul their rising sign/Asc. They select it during the convergence of the biological and spiritual birth processes.

In spite of the fact that in at least a couple readings Cayce clearly defined these three aspects of birth separately from each other, querents repeatedly confused 'soul' and 'spiritual' birth, and often wrongly applied the terms back to him in their queries. At times he corrected them. Other times he talked past it to get to the most important points.

It is only with an in-depth study of the Cayce readings that give information anomalous to astrological practice that the picture starts to clarify. Willner helped tremendously with that. I have endeavored to do the best research I can into those readings and will again in the future.

If anyone out there has contacts at the ARE/Edgar Cayce Foundation who could help with this, please, pass it along to me directly in email (found at my website). I was not able to renew my ARE membership last summer to continue my research, but hope to do so soon.

There are a number of facets of research into this that could be done, and if anyone is interested, I'm happy to correspond with you and coordinate our efforts.

Meanwhile, we study and apply verifiable information of zodiac signs, planets, and astrological patterns best we can to arrive at the most accurate charts.

[/B]

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posted July 26, 2016 04:45 PM            

Then mine has to be later instead of earlier. Fifteen minutes later I wil have an IC of 14 Sag exactly conjunct my daughters Sun and the latest transiting Saturn at 14 when my daughter was diagnosed with JIA (juvenile idiopathic artritis). Saturn is now at 10, my current IC placement. No event. My husbands Moon is 16. Conjunct it all.
And, natal Pluto will be conjunct my Ascendant (currently is 9 dgrs). I feel Pluto is conjunct my Asc. but most say it's too wide. I just know it is because I feel it.
And, Mercury in Gemini will be exactly conjunct MC. SO fitting! It already was but now it's on top.

posted July 29, 2016 12:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sylven:
Nice work Kannon!

Then mine has to be later instead of earlier. Fifteen minutes later I wil have an IC of 14 Sag exactly conjunct my daughters Sun and the latest transiting Saturn at 14 when my daughter was diagnosed with JIA (juvenile idiopathic artritis). Saturn is now at 10, my current IC placement. No event. My husbands Moon is 16. Conjunct it all.
And, natal Pluto will be conjunct my Ascendant (currently is 9 dgrs). I feel Pluto is conjunct my Asc. but most say it's too wide. I just know it is because I feel it.
And, Mercury in Gemini will be exactly conjunct MC. SO fitting! It already was but now it's on top.

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This all sounds pretty reasonable to me. Just know that those signs of far north/south declination (Gem, Cancer & Sag, Cap) can have tricky cross-sign resonances. But I think your reasoning here is pretty sound, especially if confirmed by repeated transits across those longitude (zodiac) points.

posted July 30, 2016 01:37 PM            

I should explain better. This is because most planets follow the ecliptic pretty closely (except for Pluto) and the ecliptic path hits 20-21° north in both early Gemini as it rises to its peak northern declination, and in late Cancer as it moves southward. Late Gemini is 23° north, just as early Cancer is.

Same dynamics for Sagittarius & Capricorn.

posted August 01, 2016 06:23 AM            

This would explain why my Mercury in Cap has aspects(by declinations)to Sun(Sag),Nep(Sag), Uranus(Sag),Jupiter(Sag)and North Node(Gemini).

posted August 13, 2016 06:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Thank you, Liliya. It is worth pointing out that times from memory from mothers can be off, just as official documents can. The time we're given creates a provisional chart that may be relatively accurate or not even close.

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posted August 13, 2016 09:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Nothing at all changes in my chart when you go 10 minutes before or after, except my Vertex goes from being opposed my Venus to being opposed my Sun/Moon midpoint.
Planets in houses are the same, Moon still in Virgo in 12th...

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posted August 13, 2016 11:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Nothing at all changes in my chart when you go 10 minutes before or after, except my Vertex goes from being opposed my Venus to being opposed my Sun/Moon midpoint.
Planets in houses are the same, Moon still in Virgo in 12th...

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He said you can go back 2 to 4 hours even, 10 minutes would probably keep things mostly the same Gabby.

I agree.

posted August 14, 2016 02:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
He said you can go back 2 to 4 hours even, 10 minutes would probably keep things mostly the same Gabby.

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