posted July 10, 2016 01:56 PM            

This assertion is not based on observations of a few people's charts that were loosely timed before correcting them. It is based on two key things:

- Trans-generational work done by numerous astrologers going back to the UK, working quietly and usually in near anonymity and has involved a complex, subtle re-formulation of how to calculate the Asc for the birth chart of a human soul. John Willner is the most well known of these in the US since he was a member of NCGR and author of computer software and numerous books on the matter.

- Key points in the Edgar Cayce readings that have been overlooked by nearly all astrologers. These readings do not use mathematics or reformulate the Asc, but do say birth is a process and that the physical birth time is a starting place, but that the real Asc is often found one or even two signs previous to it.

As to the questions asked in another thread that prompted this one ...

EmGem asked:

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Kannon, does that mean that the moon might also change? E.g. I have my birth time which gives me Scorpio asc around 14 deg I think. My moon is 1 Virgo. Does this mean I could have a libra rising and Leo moon?

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Yes, when the chart is turned back (or forward) to the correct Asc everything moves with it. Your chart, however, would have to be turned back about 2.5 hours in clock time for the Moon to go back into Leo. Not impossible by any means, since the time window for finding the moment of entry (called by Edgar Cayce 'spiritual birth') is about 5 hours: about 4.5 hours pre-delivery, and about :35 post-delivery.

The key is reading descriptions of Libra rising and Moon in Leo. Don't rely on only my descriptions. Read around. You might save that for a time when you're not so stressed in preparation for your performance -- that is way more important right now!!

Saturn8_Me responded:

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URRGgggg. KANNON... WHYYYYYYY?????.... I'm supposed to be a Scorpio ASC, but tell me why I identified more with you? Libra description??? ughhh, I'm upset rn.! lol
I picked up something Venusian about my self but attributed it Sun parallel Venus, Venus Trine ASC, Venus quincunx Pluto, and draco Venus in H1 also conjunct tropical Pluto (chart ruler). My birth certificate says 2:52, which is 3degrees Scorpio. I thought chart rectification was for people whoes birth time may have been rounded? Also, the very latest my ASC could have been in Libra is 2:36. I also, sense something Neptunian about me, put I can't quite put my finger on it... If Libra is my ASC sign, then that puts Neptune conjunct my IC and square my ASC, plus, my draco ASC goes from Aries to Pisces... but then again, It could possibly be my draco Neptune conjunct tropical Mercury... idk. Also, Pluto in my 2nd & Aries DESC makes A LOT of sense.... ohhhh noooooooo ... this is awful lol
....Now I have to go write in my diary,... "Today, I found out I am a Libra ASC"... & I don't even have a diary!... But for this, I may just have to go and get one. lol!... wow ...

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Your situation is the most common type of example where the Asc should be checked for conformation to your personality. A birth time indicating the early degrees of a rising sign is usually misleading, and the correct Asc is found in the preceding sign most of the time --when that rising sign fits your personality and physical qualities associated with it.

Keeping a diary is good, especially for tracking things you observe about yourself, what others say about you, your personality and tracking events and interactions against the backdrop of strong planetary movements through that sign (Libra, or whichever one you've concluded is correct) and its quality partners (in this case, cardinal signs Aries, Cancer & Capricorn).

That is what I recommend for those who aren't paying to have a full rectification done.

Here's how I recommend you determine your Asc degree area

1) Don't go straight to pinpointing the degree. I know this sounds contradictory, but there's are good reasons for it. You'll most likely get it wrong, especially if you are dealing with the signs that hold the extremes of declination (Sag, Cap: 20°09' - 23°27' south; Gemini, Cancer, 20°09' - 23°27' north)

2) Instead, look at the entire sign, and gradually narrow it down from both ends using transits, not progressions.

3) Track fire planet transits Mars & Jupiter, and Sun through that sign. If Uranus or Pluto happens to be moving through it, those as well. Gradually eliminate early and/or late degrees until you've got it confidently within several degrees. This might take many months, depending on what transits you have to work with.

4) Contact me if you have questions regarding declinations related to possible Ascendants. You can also learn possible planets parallel or contra-parallel your Asc at astro.com by looking at the pdf document linked above your chart image. Declinations get tricky and can at first strain the brain, but you can post questions related to these chart situations here.

5) Lastly, don't try to nail your rising sign and Ascendant aspects to physical qualities alone. Personality is #1. Even those of us who are experts in this area are still making observations in order to perfect our understanding of such correlations. Your physical characteristics are primarily from family genetics, and patterned astrologically after that. Age tends to hide the physical features of the face, so pictures of you in your prime (ages 15-35) and before weight gain give the clearest view.

I understand not everyone will ever be convinced of this approach. I'm not interested in debating the idea anymore, but in clarifying it best I can for those who are interested, and helping you get the most accurate chart possible. It clears up a lot of issues in prediction/progressions and in synastry.

posted July 10, 2016 02:55 PM            

For example:

Let's say you meet a new friend or prospective date/partner and there's a surprisingly positive feeling and exciting interaction between you. You note that Jupiter is at 22° Libra that day, and that Uranus is at 20° Aries. If you are trying to find your rising degree in Libra, then use these planets to give around a 4° leeway, which would be 16-26°.

Then keep watching for other planets that may pass through this area of any cardinal sign (conjunct, square, or opposite points in Libra). See if you consistently have significant events occur when such transits occur within that 16-26° range, or earlier.

I say earlier, because the way the houses work (in this case, 1st & 7th) is that even if transits keep recurring in the 16-26° range, they could be occurring in those houses accompanying relational events, but the correct Asc can still be at an earlier degree. So, if no significant events occur when the transits are past 26° then you've probably got that area eliminated.

It gets very tricky with the signs at extremes of declination (Gem/Cancer, Sag/Cap).

posted July 10, 2016 05:34 PM            

And BTW, your chart with its certainty of Asc in early Scorpio, allows for much easier pinpointing, since you'd only need to consider the first several degrees.

posted July 10, 2016 06:00 PM            

He is a Cancer sun and Mercury, Sag moon and has Mars and Venus in Leo, so basically he is an outdoorsman with a very outgoing firey side despite his introverted watery sun and mercury sign. Since I'm positive his adventurous side means he is a Sag moon and not a Cap moon this means that he could've only been born from midnight to 3 pm before the moon transitioned into Capricorn making him only able to have an Asc sign Taurus-Scorpio. How can I narrow down which sign? Can you help?

posted July 10, 2016 08:05 PM            

At most, if you've narrowed it down to two sign options. In this case it is best if the person is at least 25 or so and has good exactly timed events to use.

posted July 10, 2016 09:10 PM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
If you've already narrowed it down to a particular sign.

At most, if you've narrowed it down to two sign options. In this case it is best if the person is at least 25 or so and has good exactly timed events to use.

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posted July 10, 2016 09:14 PM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
If you've already narrowed it down to a particular sign.

At most, if you've narrowed it down to two sign options. In this case it is best if the person is at least 25 or so and has good exactly timed events to use.

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posted July 11, 2016 08:07 AM            

This gives me an IC that is conjunct my father's and son's suns, my sister's & daughter's Mars, my draconic Mars, my composite sun with my husband, my own name asteroid, several relatives' name asteroids, and sundry other planetary footprints, from key times and people.

Also Jupiter rules my 5H, and transiting Jupiter was on my rectified MC when my first child, a Sag, was born.

posted July 11, 2016 11:07 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
I feel like the Universe has been cooperating with me to make this chart that I've been using fully functional, kindly piling stuff right on the angles, in a most satisfying way.

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That is really what we want. A chart that RESPONDS to the transits in thta way, no matter what time is written on the birthcertificate.

I once rectified my own chart this way, cause I did NOT believe the time of 7:07 a.m.. My mom recalled it, it was on the birthcertificate, but come on? 7:07 ? That sounds fictionally symbolical. lol

posted July 11, 2016 01:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
But what do you think is more likely for me: a Libra rising, a Virgo rising or a Scorpio rising?

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I know nothing about you and almost nothing about your chart. So I don't have enough basis for an opinion.

posted July 11, 2016 01:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
If you've already narrowed it down to a particular sign.

At most, if you've narrowed it down to two sign options. In this case it is best if the person is at least 25 or so and has good exactly timed events to use.

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posted July 11, 2016 02:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
headintheclouds91, I thought you'd made a determination on that.

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posted July 11, 2016 06:15 PM            

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Originally posted by headintheclouds91:
Haha yeah i did, but still a little bit unsure since i am not a professional But what do you think?

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I think I would watch two possible charts, one with Asc in first several degrees of Virgo with Jupiter in 12th/Parallel Venus [9 north]; the other in early Cancer/conj Moon & opp Uranus. I'd give it more time and life events to make a determination.