posted January 26, 2017 11:27 AM            

what astrology SHOULD NOT BE USED is to explain what common sense alone can answer without problem.

below some examples:

1. I see this gorgeous man. he flirt with me, he never asked my number. i learned his SUN sign or chart and start asking questions in the forum. why he did not ask my number? is his moon in gemini? is his piscis ascendant.... do you guys have experience someone who do not call you after flirting and have moon in scorpio? do moon in scorpio do that?

2. moving to the next stage. there was this guy who was crazy for two weeks, then have sex two or three time. never called again. he happened to have moon in cancer conjunct neptune... then question in the forum. is his moon in cancer the reason he is backing on? do you guys now of any moon in cancer who do not call after three times they have sex with you?

3. the colleague who never invite you out. his sun is in sagitarius. question to the forum, do you sagitarians are so afraid of inviting out a woman you are attracted when they are your colleague. I thought only capricornians care about these things. why this saggiatarian is not inviting me out...

to some of the questions like that, the answer can be as simple as

HE or SHE IS NOT INTO YOU!!!!!!

one thing is to run a synastry and see potential attraction patterns between two people. another to pick any random element of a person chart and try to ask such a complex question why a man does not invite you, or call you etc... maybe he or she is in love with soemone else. nobody in this forum would be able to give a good answer to that question. no if the question background is surrounded by lack of solid astrological data.

posted January 26, 2017 12:39 PM            

Well if we're just going to quit like that, they never will be.

posted January 26, 2017 12:53 PM            

Nothing is ever really over. The universe is infinite. But for our own sanity, sometimes we need to pull the plug on certain mindsets. Astrology may help clarify or at least apply a semblance of order, with shapes and numbers, over a chaotic situations. And sometimes, yes, that geometry does heal...gives you a sense that things make sense on some level, after all.

PS And oddly, sometimes letting go is all that's needed for the Universe to take over and push a relationship to its next tier.

posted January 26, 2017 02:19 PM            

As an 8th house Leo Sun, my question was never "why isn't this person calling me" or "do our charts show that he's attracted to me" or whatever--it was always "How can I create the situation I want? How can I attract this person? How can I best navigate the situation so it goes my way?!" When the "He's Just Not That Into You" book first came out, I found it such an offensive idea (the title/phrase much more than the book itself, which was a humor title written by a comedy writer), because it implied that everything I am AND everything I could possibly do would never influence the "him" of the moment--his lack of interest is fixed and unchangable. My interest level, on the other hand, I'm instructed to change to suit what he wants.

Also, there was a section about how it's never true that the guy is "too intimidated to ask you out." As a teenager who was shy but it came off as aloof, arrogant, bright, beautiful, and did I mention arrogant?, EVERY guy other than creepy 40-year-old film directors was too intimidated to ask me out. This was an issue with two of my first three serious boyfriends, who didn't believe someone like me would want them. This is an issue for, like, millions of attractive women the world over!! (No longer an issue for me--I'm an ordinary-lookIng and friendly 42-year-old woman. But for many women this is a lifelong problem. And then you can't talk about it honestly because that's too arrogant.). Through my twenties, I had this 8th house obsessiveness going, alongside a great confusion about my own desires and how to express them. As a teen, I didn't know how to make what I wanted to happen, happen--and I was intrigued by astrology because I thought it would help with that, help me see where other people (boys!) were coming from.

Even as an adult who tries to be kind and honest, I'm a Leo (huntress), and I'm sometimes turned on by attracting a guy who initially seems hard to get. The whole "he's just not that into you" thing as a defeatest "his feelings are fixed and nothing you could do would ever matter" ignores various thrilling octaves of emotional foreplay and seduction.

That said, I agree with you! The soulmate/twin flame thing, especially, I think is unhelpful---so often used in cases where it's like "this guy asked me to please leave him alone, but my Isis is conjunct his Osiris!"

AND I think that once you're writing "what's up with this guy" queries on anonymous astrology forums and poring over obscure asteroid connections in your charts, it's a sign that:
A) this person is either not interested or waaaay less interested than you are
B) (in cases where the relationship IS happening and the guy is lying/cheating/also in love with someone else/breaking off contact for three weeks) the rekationship is a crappy energy drain and the other person is not capable of collaborating in a fulfilling, mutual romantic relationship with ANYONE.....instead of posting on Lindaland, the person posting should be at the therapist dealing with their crappy and warping family-of-origin issues

In those cases, usually both natal charts will show where the difficulties lie, but the synastry and composite are often deeply irrelevant--just sort of a way for the obsessed, desperate person (i.e., the one posting here! Usually by herself! While the person she's posting about is off doing something in real life.) (often this is me) to create a fantasy world around the non-rekationship, turning it into something it isn't.

But all of THAT said, I still crave tools for creating situations that are in line with my visions, passions and hopes--including in getting closer to people I want to get closer to. So it's complicated. But in my case (because: 8th house stellium, 7h moon square Pluto etc), I have to be careful about obsessiveness and also about creating heavily-narrated fantasy scenarios instead of mutually getting to know the other person.

posted January 26, 2017 02:27 PM            

@ Faith,
There is a lot of wisdom in what you say and at the end of the day if a person needs to look at all the alternatives explanations to get their answer, so be it. And I have also observed instances that after letting go on someone, things turn out differently. Probably I am concerned about how much we all collude to mislead a person looking for answer. of course, nobody fools anybody who is not open to be fooled, but if someone approach to me with these questions, my immediate reaction is ask or point out to the non-astrological issue before going into astrology. For instance, yesterday I noticed that someone was asking about moon in 8th house hiding things. Then, after some disclosure of the person, it was mentioned that the person with moon in 8th was hiding that he was seeing his ex-girlfriend. after I read that I wanted to replay that this is not about moon in 8th. it is about hiding some potential feelings he still may have for his ex but I felt lazy and moved on... however, all the replays were talking about the nature of moon in 8th. I believe that those answers (even if all with the best intention) were making her to believe that oh, yes, he is hiding that because of his moon in 8th.. so no need to worry!!! you know what I mean. For me it was RED FLAG; GUY COMING BACK WITH HIS EX...for her, it was a relief to know that moon in 8th are mysterious. problem solved!

If I were in her situation, I would have preferred to have someone talking about the non-astrological possibility of the guy being into something beyond his moon placement. that is what I mean. of course moon in 8th may be mysterious, but come on! hiding that you went out with your ex-girlfriend can be done by any house the moon is located provided you are into something fishy...

posted January 26, 2017 03:03 PM            

thanks for your long replay

1. I never read the book or the film, but my point was about reading the signs or trying to find sings that are not there to justify a one-sided attraction. yes, it may be true that someone who looks uninterested is in reality intimidated by someone (especially if that woman is beautiful, smart, sucessful, etc). It happened to me with one of my exes. we were dating online and we wrote each other every day, but I thought he just wanted a friendship as he never flirt, only wrote emails as you write to a pen-pal. until one day he confessed that he found me too beautiful and too inteligent for him.. I was surprised! that said, he still was writing to me everyday and this was very early stages of the dating and he was the once who contacted me in the first place. once he opened up things moved on pretty quickly. The thing is that it is difficult at this stage to know using one isolated aspect of astrology (although synastry may suggest if there is potential for attraction)

2. the fact that someone is in the present uninterested, not into someone, or whatever terms we use, does not mean this cannot change. actually, many times when we give up, things change. or when we put our attention somewhere else. meaning that we were blocking the situation with our anxiety and sending desperate vibes. but my post was not about being able to change things, but being able to see things in the present. if I accept that someone is not interested, i may try to use the strategy to attract someone and I can use his chart to look into his triggers. also like to see how i resonate with him through synastry. however, that is a second step. first i need to be aware if I am fooling myself about someone being interested or not. to change a situation, we need to know it firt. Using astrology as a way to perpetuate a toxic, or an unrequited love is another thing. of course, things can change. sometimes the other way around. the guy is crazy for you and then he is not. or you are crazy for someone until you are not. I can see that and have no problem if people want to go use the seducing game and strategies to gain their love interest. fair enough!

3. astrology help people to think in possibilities, but also in misleading into some soul-mate and imaginary love that is only in the mind of the beholder. my call is to shake a little bit on that belief. sometimes the answer is simple and astrology can help instead to figure out why we are attracting uninterested, jerks, cheaters, etc... and can also help to figure out if we are someone type or not, but nothing is written in the stars.

posted January 26, 2017 03:12 PM            

If there's one thing we should all know by now, it's that astrology is NOT a perfect science. There are no concrete facts like 1 +1 = 2 as to why some marriages last and others don't, why some friendships thrive and others die, or why some people cheat and others are faithful.

Sure, there are PATTERNS, with SOME degree of predictability, but it makes my stomach turn when I see genuinely torn individuals trying to subject themselves to an abusive relationship because, "We have Sun conjunct Moon! We have Venus/Saturn DW! He must be the one!." No, dear. The internet cannot tell you how to live your life, and certainly should not give you false hope as your spirit continues to diminish.

If you think about it in rational terms, there are 7+ billion people on this planet, many of who probably share the exact same or very similar natal chart as you. Do you all act alike and express yourselves similarly? I wouldn't expect someone who grew up in a small Asian village to go about their life in a similar fashion as me. Race, religion, creed, gender, age, social status, economic status, cultural influence, societal influence, familial influence, geographical location etc. all play a part in how any one natal chart manifests individually and then in synastry with another.

I think humans by nature look for answers to things they don't understand. So when a girl is distraught over her cheating boyfriend and subsequent heartbreak, it makes sense that she would seek the answer using astrology (like the moon in 8th example) instead of facing the cold hard black and white facts in front of her - he's still in love with his ex, plain and simple...or he's just immature and a cheating scumbag, plain and simple.

posted January 26, 2017 05:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bonsai:
Yeah, same applies to the "personal readings" forum. A lot of the questions of a similar nature that are asked there can easily be answered the same way without necessarily reading cards. A lot of these exchanges they have there get dragged on unnecessarily for a few weeks, maybe even a couple of months, only for them to eventually come to the same conclusion themselves ie. "He's just not that into me". (Yes, I'm that creep who looks. Honestly I just wanted to study the forum to see how accurate card reading is). I understand that people want to find answers in anything though, and trying to find it in the mystical is pretty intriguing, I will admit.

---

I read threads there sometimes.

I'm not mocking this, but I have seen it quite a bit:

Q: I blocked & defriended him. When will he contact me again?

You wonder if the guy is sitting there in a bar with his friends saying, "She blocked and defriended me," and the friends are saying, "She's just not into you then!! Leave it alone!"

"Yeah but I think this is just her way of showing she is hurt..."

posted January 26, 2017 05:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
Probably I am concerned about how much we all collude to mislead a person looking for answer.

---

It's like the elephant in the room. I think everyone is afraid of this. Nobody wants to be responsible for the rise or fall of another person's hopes.

My approach with readings is usually to just get into a conversation that involves astrology, but remains inconclusive about the outcome...except in some rare cases where I think all signs are pointing in a certain direction and hinting at possibilities...but these are conversations I've had mainly over email with other astrologers. I know the whole situation more in-depth.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I believe that those answers (even if all with the best intention) were making her to believe that oh, yes, he is hiding that because of his moon in 8th.. so no need to worry!!! you know what I mean. For me it was RED FLAG; GUY COMING BACK WITH HIS EX...for her, it was a relief to know that moon in 8th are mysterious. problem solved!

---

I think it's impolite to discuss concerns about that on this thread. Just go over there and give your opinion. My own response to that was lengthy and complex. I don't see it in black or white. I called it shady but also talked about how it might be something other than a dead end. As I see it, nobody is perfect and many relationships contain memories of grievous errors forgiven and overcome. That's my philosophy, but I don't want anyone to think I am imposing it on them, via astrology.

Also I don't feel bad about just talking about what it's like to have an 8H moon. It's a hard placement, as I was saying. I wonder if you are actually taking issue with my own comment over there?

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I am thinking that maybe this thread should be more about the astrological advice we give when faced with such questions... people look for answer anywhere when they are in distress and astrology, cards reading, etc is a tool people use more than not when they do not find answers (or do not want to find them) in their non-astrological realm.

---

posted January 26, 2017 07:44 PM            

I said the exact same thing in one such thread. Then this happened....

posted January 26, 2017 08:01 PM            

Actually it was one such scenario that brought me to astrology.

Person of Interest was confusing, and it frustrated me. So, I forced the issue:

Nine: Define this relationship!
POI: I see you as a friend.

After I'd calmed down I went into denial, I needed something that could tell me "for sure" whether POI was serious, joking, and WHEN they would return to apologize and move onto something more romantic.

On the day of the definition POI was reading their horoscope in the free newspaper. I remembered this and saw it as a means to getting answers I sought. Thus began my Astrological journey.

**UNPOPULAR OPINiON ALERT**

posted January 27, 2017 02:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I read threads there sometimes.

I'm not mocking this, but I have seen it quite a bit:

Q: I blocked & defriended him. When will he contact me again?

You wonder if the guy is sitting there in a bar with his friends saying, "She blocked and defriended me," and the friends are saying, "She's just not into you then!! Leave it alone!"

"Yeah but I think this is just her way of showing she is hurt..."

"NO. You were BLOCKED. Deal with reality!"

---

Oh dear yes. And then they ask 8 people the same question, and all 8 give the same responses through their cards, and then the opposite happens and they're shocked. "But it was said in everyone's cards. Why didn't it work?"

Probably for reasons similar to your example. No one can control what someone's going to or not going to do just because they pulled out some cards. People are quite unpredictable fortunately/unfortunately.

I can understand cards being intriguing, but I also see the great danger in them. They're like a drug, people become addicted to them to the point where they can't make the next step in life without consulting the cards. Also, the "hope" that is written in the them can make a question linger much longer than it should have, and they sit there for weeks on end waiting for "the moment" when everything will become clear, when just a bit of common sense requires them to assess the situation as if they never had cards to help them to realise the sometimes obvious. Relying on them can string along issues that you should have cut ties with already, and they can drastically change the course of your life, which might have panned out much differently if cards weren't so heavily relied upon. Additionally, some questions are asked regarding trivial things that make you go "who cares??", such as "What did he think of my new profile picture?". Just put it up and move on with your life! If he likes it or notices it, Facebook has the "like" button he can use. Cards make a person focus on the nitty gritty of the details instead of looking at the big picture. It makes them unable to see the forest for the trees.

posted January 27, 2017 02:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
Bonsai

I think she meant in an ironic way that sometimes we are reading the signs wrong. "i blocked him, when he would call" and then the guys in the bar are saying "she blocked you, she is not interested" rather than undestanding that she was hurt and because of that she blocked him...

---

posted January 27, 2017 02:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I don't know. I give a lot of readings and always try my best. I don't know how to try harder at this point.

---

I did not see a comment of you in that thread. not sure if I left the thread before you post or just missed it. And in all honesty, the thread that trigger my article was a more recent one, when I saw one person asking about mars in certan sign and why he was not making a move in a clear way or so..everyday I see threads like this and normally I ignore them, but sometimes the tittle makes me open it thinking is something else just to find out is one of these questions...

posted January 27, 2017 02:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by margym0o:

It really IS as simple as "He's (or she's!) just not that into you." You can't force someone to love you, no matter how you try to manipulate them or yourself (with the use of astrology as one person mentioned) because you can only keep up the charade so long. That sweet Sun/Venus conjunction in your composite, try as you might, won't save you either.

---

while this would be my approach, I understand if someone want to give a try. For instance, I have noticed people with leo or aries placement that they can go after their interest until they conquer them and many times they succeed and many times they dont.

I am not inclined naturally to try to conquer anybody or seduce them with strategies of any sort. for me, if he is not interested after seing me and feel my energy, I have not reason to make him change his mind. actually, I consider myself so special that the fact that a man I am interested do not respond in kind, it is a demostration that he does not deserve me. PERIOD. I have venus-mars-sun in cancer and when I do not see the man making obvious demostration of interest I just let it go. It goes against my nature to try to do something else. I tend to be passive and wait. and if the man happen to be like me, too bad, his lost.

posted January 27, 2017 03:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I read threads there sometimes.

I'm not mocking this, but I have seen it quite a bit:

Q: I blocked & defriended him. When will he contact me again?

You wonder if the guy is sitting there in a bar with his friends saying, "She blocked and defriended me," and the friends are saying, "She's just not into you then!! Leave it alone!"

"Yeah but I think this is just her way of showing she is hurt..."

"NO. You were BLOCKED. Deal with reality!"

---

you have a point. we all can misread sign one way or another. either we failed to notice that the lack of response is due to some strategy from the other side or we are fooling ourselves thinking there is one.

in the example of your quote, if the woman blocked the man because he has been a jerk or he has simply ignored her and she is fed off, he can easily realized that she is mad, hurt and even she want to move on from him. he does not know she is asking for reading wondering if he would call. but there is a fact here. if she blocked him, I assume (not having the facts of the thread) he must have done something or maybe not done something (like ignoring her mails, comments or so)... so, if he takes the advice of his friends "she blocked you, she is not into you" that mean two things: he decided to move on as well or he does not care enough to show he regret to have hurt her or ignore her. even in the scenario that he really cares for her and because she block him he does nothing. what does it tell me? well, if he is interested and after hurting her he is not able to move his aXss and apologize, who want a man like that? or if he was interested (assuming this is in the flirt stages) and he did not make a move ealier, he can try to reach out somehow and if he doesnt, either he is not so interested or have no balls. again, who wants that?

once I told a friend trying to understand a man that keep his phone off during vacation after a one night stand with her. I said if he is interested, he is not showing it! you know what she responded? "maybe he is afraid to show his feelings" do we need to get to this point? after some time she admitted he was interested in someone else, but she fought with me because i was making the point that why she needed to make all the contacts. I told her, the distance from A to B is the same from B to A. why should do all the walking? if she would have been into astrology, she wold have been asking the questions I am talking about, trying to find an explanation for the obvious.

posted January 27, 2017 05:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bonsai:
Oh dear yes. And then they ask 8 people the same question, and all 8 give the same responses through their cards, and then the opposite happens and they're shocked. "But it was said in everyone's cards. Why didn't it work?"

Probably for reasons similar to your example. No one can control what someone's going to or not going to do just because they pulled out some cards. People are quite unpredictable fortunately/unfortunately.

I can understand cards being intriguing, but I also see the great danger in them. They're like a drug, people become addicted to them to the point where they can't make the next step in life without consulting the cards. Also, the "hope" that is written in the them can make a question linger much longer than it should have, and they sit there for weeks on end waiting for "the moment" when everything will become clear, when just a bit of common sense requires them to assess the situation as if they never had cards to help them to realise the sometimes obvious. Relying on them can string along issues that you should have cut ties with already, and they can drastically change the course of your life, which might have panned out much differently if cards weren't so heavily relied upon. Additionally, some questions are asked regarding trivial things that make you go "who cares??", such as "What did he think of my new profile picture?". Just put it up and move on with your life! If he likes it or notices it, Facebook has the "like" button he can use. Cards make a person focus on the nitty gritty of the details instead of looking at the big picture. It makes them unable to see the forest for the trees.

I myself have had a stab a couple of times on there to see what the cards would be said for me out of curiosity, but the questions I've asked have been rather non-dangerous ones. One has been accurate (maybe it was coincidence, maybe not), two have been out-right wrong.

---

this is another side of the story, when we use astrology to make decisions. I suggest that we follow our own feelings in a situation. if I feel bad or drained in a relationship, that is is what I feel. no synastry is going to tell me "no, you feel happy because the moon-sun conjunction". however the synastry can point out what in my own make up make feel triggered by this person in a certain way and even why I attract certain type of triggers. for instance, I have chiron transiting all my personal planets. needless to say that I am attracting some chirotic experiences and even in synastry or composite. then, we look at that and understand that maybe a person is a just a trigger for an internal process. from that to assume that we need to be in a ****** situation because of the chirotic experience... it is far reaching..

sometimes the experience is about setting boundaries. so you get a pair of jerks abusing you and the lesson is "get rid of the jerk" so you learn to respet your boundaries. if you do not learn that, then another jerk come around and the situation repeat over and over until one day you realize... oh, i need to learn to set boundaries and whoever traspass them is out of my life! then, the jerks that were coming to your life do not come any more. then the synatry points activated in the past are not activated anymore, then you bring the other sides of your chart alive...

posted January 27, 2017 06:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
this is another side of the story, when we use astrology to make decisions. I suggest that we follow our own feelings in a situation. if I feel bad or drained in a relationship, that is is what I feel. no synastry is going to tell me "no, you feel happy because the moon-sun conjunction". however the synastry can point out what in my own make up make feel triggered by this person in a certain way and even why I attract certain type of triggers. for instance, I have chiron transiting all my personal planets. needless to say that I am attracting some chirotic experiences and even in synastry or composite. then, we look at that and understand that maybe a person is a just a trigger for an internal process. from that to assume that we need to be in a ****** situation because of the chirotic experience... it is far reaching..

sometimes the experience is about setting boundaries. so you get a pair of jerks abusing you and the lesson is "get rid of the jerk" so you learn to respet your boundaries. if you do not learn that, then another jerk come around and the situation repeat over and over until one day you realize... oh, i need to learn to set boundaries and whoever traspass them is out of my life! then, the jerks that were coming to your life do not come any more. then the synatry points activated in the past are not activated anymore, then you bring the other sides of your chart alive...

that is when astrology help us a lot. to bring to consciousness those patterns or behavior. tarot and astrology should be used more for evolution than for answering the next minute decision. in that case better to use a coin to decide.

---

posted January 27, 2017 10:04 AM            

quote:

---

It really IS as simple as "He's (or she's!) just not that into you." You can't force someone to love you, no matter how you try to manipulate them or yourself (with the use of astrology as one person mentioned) because you can only keep up the charade so long.

---

But people change all the time, people influence each other all the time, relationships change, moving from platonic to romantic or back.....it's not about forcing someone to love you, it's about navigating the nuances of your connection as you get to know each other.

Certainly other people have changed my feelings for them through their actions and approach to me--more often platonic friends, since I'm monogamous/exclusive and get to choose only one lover out of all the people in the world. One friend, I wasn't that into, and she really won me over through conscious effort--now I really love her and seek her out.

Sometimes delving into the astrology isn't about force or manipulation--but a bit more innocent, getting to know more about the other person so you can better create a space where they'll enjoy getting closer to you. Especially if the feelings are already there on your end and you're not sure how the other person feels. Like asking a close friend of a new friend what kind of birthday gift would please that new friend--just gathering more information.

"He's just not that into you" implies that humans are totally fixed, like rocks or walls, when really we're incredibly permeable and mutable (even Leos, Aquas, Scorpios and Tauruses.). Feelings and interest levels are NOT fixed things.

In my culture (standard USA), the standard self-help advice about things like career is NEVER so defeatist---if you're pursuing a job, a degree or a client, no one tells you to just give up. "They just don't want you." We examine and investigate what iit is they do want and WHY--we assess whether we are still interested in the job/career/client, knowing that---if we're still interested and it seems compatible with our deepest wishes, we woo the client, change up our resume and add skills and reapply to the job. (Ironically, I don't do this myself--I have a more happily fatalist approach to career....,it's just that the self-help literature is so ironic about this stuff.). In the chivalric romantic tradition, wooing and pursuing someone is at the core.

Also, at what point does "he's just not that into you" start to apply? Since in most cases both people are navigating the flirtation/early spending time together/first physical encounters/growing the relationship together, at what point do you decide things are so fixed?

posted January 27, 2017 10:12 AM            

imo, astrology is healthier than spending so much $$$ with psychics and mediums ...

we all have to go through this questioning phase at some point to eventually understand our own self worth. Most of these questions boil down to self-esteem, self-worth, learning to relate to another person.