posted January 18, 2023 07:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:

I am branching away from societal constructs and other such similar narratives of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus " stuff and saying that we should just look at energy and how that works. Because energy is indifferent to gender.

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That's the thing though.

Men & Women ARE indeed different. It's an actual fact. 💯 With actual science & organic instincts behind it that go FAR beyond Astrology. The idea that we are exactly the same is the real "societal construct" here and a totally NEW concept. There is a reason why most Construction Workers are men and why most Nurses are women and it's not because anybody is FORCING them into a box. Either gender can do both but they typically *prefer* not to do so.

You think because a woman is an Aries or Leo she doesn't want her Libra boyfriend to protect her if another man was trying to rob or r@pe her? Because gender is a "social construct" and so she shouldn't expect a man to ever save her?

Trying to FORCE the exception onto the masses in hopes to make it the "new rule" is backfiring on society. It isn't actually helping EITHER gender to actually feel more happy or fulfilled. And again - stats back this up. 💯 Modern Indoctrination will NEVER *erase* Biological Instinct.

And as a Gay Man - you should know that the dynamics between you & your man are usually VERY different than the dynamics between a heterosexual man & his woman. This is another area where lines are being needlessly BLURRED today. For instance - most Straight Women *still* prefer a man who is capable of being DOMINANT in the bedroom. 🔥🔥 Not laying there expecting HER to keep taking charge. I remember Galactic telling a story like this! 😂 He seemed surprised that this one Tomboy girl was being passive with him during sex. I told him nah - that's pretty standard and that true Dominatrix type women are more rare.

I also recall having a deep in-person discussion with a diehard Feminist friend of mine about this very topic. She confessed to me "I actually desire an Alpha Male. Thing is... I just want to know that he values me & isn't going to silence my voice." 🤷🏾‍♀️ And this isn't uncommon! It's actually the *norm* hidden underneath the "woke" surface. Which is ultimately what Sleepy & I were getting at earlier.

One more story I'll share (I have a lot of conversations lol) with you. There's this rather feminine Bisexual Man that I know. He's been crushing on me for years and asking to "eat my apple pie", as he puts it. LOL. He knows I won't allow it though, so we just laugh it off. Anywho... I ran into him recently after not talking for quite sometime. He was filling me in on adopting a child, divorcing his husband, his latest sexcapades, etc. He ends up telling me that I should give more Bisexual Guys a shot. I told him "Babe, we can't both be on the bottom." 💕 He then replies with "Oh girl. Just get a strap-on and f--k him in his a$$ from time to time. NO BIG DEAL." 😂 No big deal??? So I closed with "I hear you, but I have no interest in doing that to my man. And I desire to *stay* in the Feminine Role." He respected that and then let it go.

^^But this sums it up. (Some) Gay Men encouraging Straight Women to emasculate or dominate their man just because that's what THEY do - is unwise advice. 💯 Our desires for men are often (but not always) different than yours. Most women lose respect for men that they can do this to - whether they admit it or not. And RESPECT is huge for Straight Men in their dealings with women. So it's a setup for failure to act like everyone is THE SAME and everything is interchangeable.

And sadly... FAILURE is what some people want for the masses. There's a thin line between Progression & Regression if you don't recognize when you're going too far.

posted January 18, 2023 08:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Librapurr:
Passive aggressive is tricky. It would depend how it�s used. I usually look at it as an expression of anger because it cannot be expressed openly for some reasons, maybe, pain. And it seems more feminine because traditional women were taught to be soft and agreeable in old times.
You say expressing what�s on your heart. I guess some people could use it because they cannot show other feelings or be vulnerable then it�s more masculine.

Agree with stoicism. Sometimes women need to adopt it as other masculine qualities when making through hard times.
I guess it�s possible to create relationships where you don�t
need to repress yourself. But is it possible to do it in a social group or society generally where we have a lot of people expressing themselves in a different way and a conflict should be minimized because of it�

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The thing is... a passive-aggressive demeanor doesn't actually "hide" anything. People can *still* sense their anger or hurt or frustration. To me - it's a very cowardly & silly way to be. And even worse than being a doormat, actually! Why? Because at least you can feel sympathy for the doormat and potentially help them FIND their voice. Truly passive-aggressive women are FAR from being genuinely feminine & kind or bold & courageous individuals. 💯 They are STUCK in Nietherland, so to speak. And are often bitter or envious as well.

posted January 18, 2023 11:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LovelyAries86:

The number of deeply unhappy, miserable & unfulfilled men out here today who are LOST in Role Reversal is astounding!! They know something is deeply OFF but they keep sitting on their a$$es making excuses.

^^Are Libra & Cancer Males more susceptible to this behavior than Capricorn & Leo Males? To an extent, yes. And I've said so. On average, some Signs (or placements) do come across more Masculine than others. However - a man is still a man at the end of the day. 💯

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I just wanted to further clarify on this.

Mike Tyson is a Cancer Sun Male. 🌕 He's one of the most ruthless boxing fighters of all-time. He knocked many men the f--k out with just ONE punch and the match was completely OVER. Very powerful to watch!!
http://images.app.goo.gl/LoChiea9yHQCyqa39

On the flip side... this man was *always* allowing his emotions to get the better of him and make him act a damn fool -- like when he actually bit Evander's ear off! 🙄 Or being more moody & overly sensitive than a female -- like he was while married to Robin Givens and abusing her in more ways than one.

So what's my point?

A Cancer Man is FULLY capable of protecting his woman. 👍🏾 And capable of exhibiting strength. But many of them can struggle with finding their emotional "center" and can resort to very petty or manipulative behavior more often seen in Women. Once a Cancer Man has evolved & matured though, this can improve.

As I stated earlier - a man is *still* a man at the end of the day. 💯

The male ego is *always* present even within men who have foolishly ALLOWED themselves to become emasculated. 💯 That Seagoat guy who was banned from LL was the perfect example of this. He proclaimed to be a "feminine Straight Male" yet he *hated* that I didn't view him as masculine. Why? Cuz he's lying to himself.

Then he started trying to prove that he was *actually* Dominant.

Then he insulted me.

Then he told me that he "liked" me. 😂 And that he liked how I was challenging him.

Then I roasted him for insulting me and told him to stop acting like Regina George LOL

posted January 22, 2023 06:50 PM            

To start things off, I want to clarify that the statements I am about to make in this post do not reflect upon OPs character or her personal preferences. Everyone is entitled to seek someone who checks off their personal wants and needs. Its only when those preferences end up being projected on the larger population out there is when it starts becoming absurd. I would also like to point out that there is obvious bias in my views given that I am a Libra Male .

Its true that Libra is the sign of Balance and peace but, depending upon the influences on the individual from the rest of the chart, what a Libra's view of peace is and how they go about achieving it differs greatly. The famous saying Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (if you want peace, prepare for war,) applies perfectly to this sign. There is a reason why a lot of famous generals and strategists from history were Libras. As I see it, the Goddess Venus (Aphrodite) should be more akin to the hedonist and earthly nature of Taurus whereas with Libra, the god Apollo and the goddess Athena are more suitable deities representing the sign. Athena is the Goddess of Intellect, Wisdom as well as the Strategic side of War. No other sign knows all too well that in order to manifest their version of balance to their surroundings, they will have to fight and fight hard.

Now, how they choose to fight depends heavily upon other aspects of their charts. John Lennon and Mahatma Ghandi obviously wouldn't have share like minded views with Dwight Eisenhower, Horatio Nelson, Imran Khan or Margaret Thatcher .

As for defining aspects of Masculinity, I will agree that there are aspects and skills in life that a Man needs to know in order to sustain not only himself but his loved ones, but I absolutely disagree that being a negotiator is an un-masculine trait. The first thing that you are taught when it comes to self-defense is to do whatever it takes to avoid a fight. If a situation can be disarmed under reasonable compromises before fists start flying then that is a huge win and it should be strived for at all times. Violence is just a tool for diplomacy when all other means have failed and Libras know this better than anyone.

posted January 22, 2023 09:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LovelyAries86:
The thing is... a passive-aggressive demeanor doesn't actually "hide" anything. People can *still* sense their anger or hurt or frustration. To me - it's a very cowardly & silly way to be. And even worse than being a doormat, actually! Why? Because at least you can feel sympathy for the doormat and potentially help them FIND their voice. Truly passive-aggressive women are FAR from being genuinely feminine & kind or bold & courageous individuals. 💯 They are STUCK in Nietherland, so to speak. And are often bitter or envious as well.

Glad we agree about Stoicism. It's a good thing to have in your back pocket - just don't OVERUSE it. 💕 I've definitely had to put on a strong face in the middle of an emotional storm several times before in my life. However, I didn't allow that to become my IDENTITY. I ultimately want to live, love, explore & be FREE as a woman without a bunch of heaviness always weighing me down. 🦋 Whether you are happy, sad, mad or indifferent - EXPRESS IT authentically. State your needs! That's what I meant by from the heart.

---

I do express it authentically. All of it. So, I hope none of this has to do with my response here. I don't know that anyone could call me stoic, unless I've managed to be, because something was nobody else's business.

Nobody is trying to force anything on the masses. No-one is forcing anyone else to say that they're a man, instead of a woman, or the opposite, let alone forcing anyone to go through gender-reassignment surgery. They're looking for acceptance, or to just feel safe, and have people leave them alone, instead of all of this **** about them being groomers, or mentally ill. That said, mental illness isn't a joke, or something to be ashamed of, either.

posted January 23, 2023 12:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
I do express it authentically. All of it. So, I hope none of this has to do with my response here. I don't know that anyone could call me stoic, unless I've managed to be, because something was nobody else's business.

Nobody is trying to force anything on the masses. No-one is forcing anyone else to say that they're a man, instead of a woman, or the opposite, let alone forcing anyone to go through gender-reassignment surgery. They're looking for acceptance, or to just feel safe, and have people leave them alone, instead of all of this **** about them being groomers, or mentally ill. That said, mental illness isn't a joke, or something to be ashamed of, either.

For me, personally, I don't care what men want. I care about what *I* want.

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Most of my commentary was directed at our society at large, not you specifically. You & I generally get along regardless of our differences. 👍🏾

There are definitely people in power trying to FORCE many twisted things onto the masses that are of very little benefit to them & their families. 💯 Just because something is currently popular doesn't mean that it is RIGHT. Slavery was once "popular", you know. Society goes through wild changes & shifts over time and people (throughout history) seem to struggle with realizing when they've gone too far. Or they fail to see when they've WON a battle and they then become oppressors themselves.

-A man has every right to become Trans or be Gay without being bullied.

-A man also has every right to be a Straight Masculine Male without being bullied into wanting Trans Women or even Tomboy Women.

-A mom has every right to refuse to expose her child to half-naked Drag Shows. Yet attend one herself.

People don't have to *BE* just like you in order to accept you. 👍🏾 That's what so many "woke folks" really are struggling to understand today. Embrace the differences & treat all with kindness! That's it.

I care about what *I* want.

posted January 23, 2023 12:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LovelyAries86:
That's the thing though.

Men & Women ARE indeed different. It's an actual fact. 💯 With actual science & organic instincts behind it that go FAR beyond Astrology. The idea that we are exactly the same is the real "societal construct" here and a totally NEW concept. There is a reason why most Construction Workers are men and why most Nurses are women and it's not because anybody is FORCING them into a box. Either gender can do both but they typically *prefer* not to do so.

You think because a woman is an Aries or Leo she doesn't want her Libra boyfriend to protect her if another man was trying to rob or r@pe her? Because gender is a "social construct" and so she shouldn't expect a man to ever save her?

Trying to FORCE the exception onto the masses in hopes to make it the "new rule" is backfiring on society. It isn't actually helping EITHER gender to actually feel more happy or fulfilled. And again - stats back this up. 💯 Modern Indoctrination will NEVER *erase* Biological Instinct.

And as a Gay Man - you should know that the dynamics between you & your man are usually VERY different than the dynamics between a heterosexual man & his woman. This is another area where lines are being needlessly BLURRED today. For instance - most Straight Women *still* prefer a man who is capable of being DOMINANT in the bedroom. 🔥🔥 Not laying there expecting HER to keep taking charge. I remember Galactic telling a story like this! 😂 He seemed surprised that this one Tomboy girl was being passive with him during sex. I told him nah - that's pretty standard and that true Dominatrix type women are more rare.

I also recall having a deep in-person discussion with a diehard Feminist friend of mine about this very topic. She confessed to me "I actually desire an Alpha Male. Thing is... I just want to know that he values me & isn't going to silence my voice." 🤷🏾‍♀️ And this isn't uncommon! It's actually the *norm* hidden underneath the "woke" surface. Which is ultimately what Sleepy & I were getting at earlier.

One more story I'll share (I have a lot of conversations lol) with you. There's this rather feminine Bisexual Man that I know. He's been crushing on me for years and asking to "eat my apple pie", as he puts it. LOL. He knows I won't allow it though, so we just laugh it off. Anywho... I ran into him recently after not talking for quite sometime. He was filling me in on adopting a child, divorcing his husband, his latest sexcapades, etc. He ends up telling me that I should give more Bisexual Guys a shot. I told him "Babe, we can't both be on the bottom." 💕 He then replies with "Oh girl. Just get a strap-on and f--k him in his a$$ from time to time. NO BIG DEAL." 😂 No big deal??? So I closed with "I hear you, but I have no interest in doing that to my man. And I desire to *stay* in the Feminine Role." He respected that and then let it go.

^^But this sums it up. (Some) Gay Men encouraging Straight Women to emasculate or dominate their man just because that's what THEY do - is unwise advice. 💯 Our desires for men are often (but not always) different than yours. Most women lose respect for men that they can do this to - whether they admit it or not. And RESPECT is huge for Straight Men in their dealings with women. So it's a setup for failure to act like everyone is THE SAME and everything is interchangeable.

And sadly... FAILURE is what some people want for the masses. There's a thin line between Progression & Regression if you don't recognize when you're going too far.

BTW - 'Waiting To Exhale' is a really good movie. ❤ I've seen it many times.

---

I think this discussion has gone to beyond astrological definitions of the word "feminine" and "masculine" from an astrological point of view. It seems to be overlapping with societal definitions And thats where we diverge.

I still mantain that what I was referring to of the signs was the energy as internal processing (water and earth) vs external expression - (fire and air) this whether gay, straight, bi etc.

I know that society has its own ideas of masculine and feminine.That is true. But these ideas have nothing to do with the astrological definitions of the word "feminine" and "masculine".

I believe that was the initial idea of the thread- to answer the question as to why Vir/Cap (when they act so masculine) are considered a "feminine" sign. Whilst Libra ( when they act so feminine) are called "masculine" etc.

The thread starter went further to define what their definition of "feminine" and "masculine" is and (unsurprisingly) it conformed to the societal definitions of those words. It didn't speak to the definitions of the words in terms of Astrology.

My argument (from the gate) was that "feminine" & " masculine" by Astro definition,is not the societal definition. Hence I suggested that the terms be revised or altogether detached from the description of energy differences of Libra & Cap respectively. They are confusing because of their attached connotative meanings outside of that field.

Your response is touching further on their connotative definition. And not their astrological terminology. Thats where we differ.

posted January 23, 2023 01:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I think this discussion has gone to beyond astrological definitions of the word "feminine" and "masculine" from an astrological point of view. It seems to be overlapping with societal definitions And thats where we diverge.

I still mantain that what I was referring to of the signs was the energy as internal processing (water and earth) vs external expression - (fire and air) this whether gay, straight, bi etc.

I know that society has its own ideas of masculine and feminine.That is true. But these ideas have nothing to do with the astrological definitions of the word "feminine" and "masculine".

I believe that was the initial idea of the thread- to answer the question as to why Vir/Cap (when they act so masculine) are considered a "feminine" sign. Whilst Libra ( when they act so feminine) are called "masculine" etc.

The thread starter went further to define what their definition of "feminine" and "masculine" is and (unsurprisingly) it conformed to the societal definitions of those words. It didn't speak to the definitions of the words in terms of Astrology.

My argument (from the gate) was that "feminine" & " masculine" by Astro definition,is not the societal definition. Hence I suggested that the terms be revised or altogether detached from the description of energy differences of Libra & Cap respectively. They are confusing because of their attached connotative meanings outside of that field.

Your response is touching further on their connotative definition. And not their astrological terminology. Thats where we differ.

If this thread was a discussion on "feminine" and "masculine" outside of astrology, then that would be a different kettle of fish altogether🤷🏿‍♂️

---

You had mentioned that you felt energy was indifferent to gender and that the whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" concept was a societal construct. So it appeared as though you were going beyond Astrology with that particular comment. And that's why I decided to respond to it.

posted January 23, 2023 04:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LovelyAries86:
You had mentioned that you felt energy was indifferent to gender and that the whole "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" concept was a societal construct. So it appeared as though you were going beyond Astrology with that particular comment. And that's why I decided to respond to it.

As I stated earlier - I do like your "inhale" VS "exhale" example much better than the "feminine" VS "masculine" descriptors that many use (and abuse) within the Astrology Community. 👍🏾 It's more fitting.

---

Oh ok. I see where the misunderstanding went. 🙆🏿‍♂️.

The "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" was a John Gray book that had no Astrological references.The author attained his degree in Psychology and is a relationship specialist.

A lot of the stereotypes on male/female relationships is highlighted in this book. Soke of it true and in other parts, not so much. But the author was trying to capture the essence of relating to fundamentally two different natures. That it is a give(Ven) and take(Mars)between the two people

So i used it to reference how I would be stepping away from those societal definitions (which is exactly what the book conforms to).Because post the book,this type of thinking started to filter through to Astrological authors too.

posted January 23, 2023 11:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LovelyAries86:
The thing is... a passive-aggressive demeanor doesn't actually "hide" anything. People can *still* sense their anger or hurt or frustration. To me - it's a very cowardly & silly way to be. And even worse than being a doormat, actually! Why? Because at least you can feel sympathy for the doormat and potentially help them FIND their voice. Truly passive-aggressive women are FAR from being genuinely feminine & kind or bold & courageous individuals. 💯 They are STUCK in Nietherland, so to speak. And are often bitter or envious as well.

Glad we agree about Stoicism. It's a good thing to have in your back pocket - just don't OVERUSE it. 💕 I've definitely had to put on a strong face in the middle of an emotional storm several times before in my life. However, I didn't allow that to become my IDENTITY. I ultimately want to live, love, explore & be FREE as a woman without a bunch of heaviness always weighing me down. 🦋 Whether you are happy, sad, mad or indifferent - EXPRESS IT authentically. State your needs! That's what I meant by from the heart.

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You put it like that then - yes. I�ve known people who needed help, but they became aggressive or passive-aggressive instead. I have understanding of darker impulses , emotions because of my Pluto. But it often comes to dragging yourself through **** to help them or you need to have strong healthy boundaries to help them without hurting yourself.
I also have known people who got passive aggressive because they had power and they could. The non evolved Pluto way.

However, sometimes, passive- aggressive is something people overthinking or reading between the lines too much.

One of my popular Libra saying to intense fire people: there�re different ways to express one emotion or idea. (Is it only for Air? Lol)
( But for water it would be: can you express something understable without me reading your mind)
Expressing authenticity is for somewhat mentally healthy people. Some unevolved with too intense charts might become abusive or harmful if you give them freedom of expressing negative emotions.
I love bold & courageous individuals.

Shake those tough times features off without letting it to become your identify- very useful, like it 👍 . That�s a problem of highly fixed energy signs who are getting stuck in hurtful mindset forever.

posted January 23, 2023 07:14 PM            

quote:

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I (28M) sexually harassed my colleague (32F) into having a nervous breakdown

I (28M) am a new medical resident at a large hospital in America. One of our more senior residents, Clarissa (32F), is really cute, but she happens to be a stuck-up power-tripper. She�s the kind of person who will give you grief for being on time for work, because to her, �on time� means 15 minutes early. She�s not all that popular amongst the other residents either. The consensus is that her stubborn, grouchy attitude presents a threat to patient safety. However, the hospital refuses to fire her. So we�ve just resorted to taking the **** out of her. We oftentimes talk about how fuckeable she is and objectify her while she�s standing right in front of us. And when Clarissa and I are in the break-room together, I�ll be searching up her swimsuit pics on Facebook with the screen right in her view. I also once shoved a pen down her shirt, but that�s the only physical thing I�ve done.

The only genuinely messed up thing that we�ve done to Clarissa happened a few weeks ago. She was hanging out with two other residents (both 29M) at their house, and those male residents somehow forced her to take off her shirt and strip down to her bra and tight jeans. They took pictures of her in suggestive positions. One photo was of her lying face-down on the ground, with one of the male residents kneeling down and massaging her naked back. Those two residents shared the photos with me. In all of the photos, Clarissa was crying, so I only had them on my phone for a few days before I deleted them. They went too far with this, but I was not involved in it whatsoever.

Recently, Clarissa pulled me aside after our shift ended; it was just the two of us in the room. She had a bit of a meltdown, and started sobbing and telling me about how �****** up� our behavior is and how she doesn�t understand why it�s happening. She even told me that she "doesn't want to die". I started feeling bad for her; I knew we were bothering her, but I didn't think that she would cry over it. I don't think she has to worry about her colleagues killing her though; that part is ridiculous and dramatic.

Her Facebook account is now private, and I�ve noticed that nowadays, whenever she�s in the presence of a male doctor, she's always got another female doctor accompanying her. Even so, I have noticed that Clarissa seems to always be on the verge of crying, and she constantly stutters and sweats heavily. She makes mistakes almost constantly, and I fear that one day she is going to accidentally kill someone.

If I let the hospital know about her, they�re going to find out all about what I and my fellow residents have been up to. I know I�ve hurt her, but I've worked hard my entire life to be in this position.

---

posted January 23, 2023 08:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Oh ok. I see where the misunderstanding went. 🙆🏿‍♂️.

The "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" was a John Gray book that had no Astrological references.The author attained his degree in Psychology and is a relationship specialist.

A lot of the stereotypes on male/female relationships is highlighted in this book. Soke of it true and in other parts, not so much. But the author was trying to capture the essence of relating to fundamentally two different natures. That it is a give(Ven) and take(Mars)between the two people

So i used it to reference how I would be stepping away from those societal definitions (which is exactly what the book conforms to).Because post the book,this type of thinking started to filter through to Astrological authors too.

These authors started to talk about feminine and masculine energies as per the book. Not from astrological definitions i.e. they referenced personality traits conforming to societal ideals of the former mentioned words, not the definition with regards to the elements/polarities/night vs. Day forces etc.

---

I actually read that book as a teenager. And was into it like "Yes! I'm VENUS bish!" 🤣🤣 It's so interesting being an Aries (ruled by Mars) while also being highly Venusian. I wonder if people who have Venus *square* Mars in their charts feel discombobulated? I'm grateful for having the trine. 💕

posted February 01, 2023 02:13 AM            

That was tough to read. What a d***😡

posted February 01, 2023 03:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LovelyAries86:
I actually read that book as a teenager. And was into it like "Yes! I'm VENUS bish!" 🤣🤣 It's so interesting being an Aries (ruled by Mars) while also being highly Venusian. I wonder if people who have Venus *square* Mars in their charts feel discombobulated? I'm grateful for having the trine. 💕

I do agree that the Fem VS Mas definitions within astrology should be kept *separate* from the biological/societal meaning of these terms. 👍🏾 Although, both can be discussed & dissected on their own.

---

posted February 16, 2023 07:16 PM            

Meet Jason Everman:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5_HwfwChxEY

posted February 25, 2023 09:48 PM            

And though I think the "Druid pack" (not sure of the name, but they were among the wolves reintroduced into Yellowstone Park) had an alpha male, but most of the cubs were black, the father a lone wolf outside the pack getting a lot of attention (there was also an alpha female, but she was so vicious and greedy that the other females turned on her and ripped her to shreds with their fangs).

The wolves, like chimps and bonobos and humans also did not display an exception: male and female monogamy, an unnatural process that some would impose upon people in society despite the biology.

It was rampant enough even before dating sites like Ashley Madison and Established Men (with the stated purpose to facilitate extramarital affairs for married men and women--speaking of which, I remember one woman telling me she'd always be a mistress, because while the wife may get some benefits in the end like inheritance of property and insurance, the mistress was treated far better, and her married men giving her plenty of expensive gifts).

Though the wolves themselves seemed to actually be dominated by crows that trained them from pups! (Seriously, starting with games like "fetch the stick" and later leading them to prey which left them carrion, and also cries that got wolves to chase away others trying to claim the leftovers the crows were eating). Smarter is better.

As for the gay community, though the male/female divide used to be strong before the Stonewall Riots (which I think combined with 70s feminism, a lot of it misguided, though things were such I can understand why it was present), but it seems the exception today. I've lost count of gay men complaining about not being seen masculine enough, or those claiming M4M (Masc for Masc) on their hookup apps weren't masculine enough for them.

Though an interesting bit...I knew one gay male dom in BDSM who had women wanting to be his slaves. He explained that he wasn't interested in sex with women but that was a plus for them. They wanted a daddy! And not one to spoil them as a princess, either, but to control and punish them, without any sex involved. I wished he indulged a few so he could share more of how their minds and desires worked (and if they were willing to stick with it), but he lacked my curiosity about their psychology.

Historical factors shaped humans, which wasn't necessarily about strength, but providing. The strong took. In metal-rich Europe, that meant men able to wield heavy weapons while wearing heavy armor for long periods of time. In metal-poor Japan where armor and weapons were more often of wood and bamboo (metal typically reserved for the elites), grace and speed became at least as important as strength, and now the masculine ideal is more slender rather than Thor. 'Course this blurs as the distribution and wealth change, but old habits linger.

(Then again, until about a century or so ago, and still active in many places today, marriages were arranged by parents, from farmers to nobles, and were business. Those who married for love, while fascinating as vampires are today, were seen as selfish--and elopement could end in murder by family, both male and female, typically by a brother or father. The woman did not get to choose, and sometimes neither did the guy. That has changed significantly, though people now talk of "traditional marriage." That's a very loose definition of traditional, especially if they thump religious texts that include men with multiple wives and concubines.)

But if it's innately natural for women to be passive, there wouldn't be laws against shrews and other punishments. (Not that every society had this problem, and in a few societies that still survive to this day, it's the women who are the players and have multiple husbands and controlling home affairs while men were away...this usually came in societies where male life was cheap. I vaguely recall reading of how many hated when the Vikings went raiding because women took over and horribly used the law against specific women, pretty much middle school social dynamics, as dominates much of society today, but when the men were back, the women could actually relax, but it generally wasn't that they were just glad to see he made it back.)

But then again, in the Marvel movies, Loki seems so much more popular with women than Thor despite being smaller...and despite having his butt handed to him again and again, and even being successfully tricked and defied by mere mortals (including Natasha).

Or Justine Beiber. Gods, I recall a Rolling Stone reporter, female, who seem to be wetting herself at meeting the then jailbait. (On a side note, I recall back when the very same mothers who cheered over a shirtless Jacob from the Twilight movie condemned, at the very same time, Miley Cyrus, same age as the actor who played Jacob, for showing too much skin as it "set a bad example for our daughters" unlike their own lusting after a shirtless 17-year-old, don't know how many of these mothers were married or had sons with daughters while lusting over the boy.)

One mystery to me is that in nations like Norway where it's not up to the men to provide as the government makes that unnecessary, they're actually more prone to take on female oriented jobs. (What's not looked at, a pity, is the type of jobs men choose that are their first picks.)

That would indeed imply that women naturally gravitate to caretaker roles (though a great many women are vicious, most young children murdered are killed by their mothers and sometimes because a new man they're interested in doesn't want children, which throws the "want a man to take care of the children" argument out the window).

Or it could be that other nations that suffer a lot more trauma that the stress and testosterone levels in pregnant women shape women to be a bit more "masculine" (in stereotypical terms, and ignoring intersexed individuals), and if not, that they have no choice but to develop such inclinations, or at least take on such roles (I've seen people make fun of women not able to use a hammer, but women collectively did so and more in the United States during WW2 when most able-bodied men were off in the war).

Speaking of which, women invented computers (primarily a woman serving in the US Navy in the early 20th century). It was seen as an advanced tool for secretarial work with men taking it over once its uses in code breaking were realized. Despite this, and how many women are skilled with computers, it's acted (including by many feminists) that computers are hard for girls. No, they're not, unless they're raised to believe that.

I've looked up HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts), and and while males typically won over females (though less so in fencing and archery), there were exceptions...most of those exceptions nearly won against all their female opponents that I tried to find out of they were trans or intersexed, but was unable, which is why I'm unsatisfied. Though this matched what I saw in looking up male vs female tournaments in Japan which, at least at the time, did not use preferred pronouns. (But one thing I like about Japan, you generally have to work twice as hard to be as good, or better, than a man, but those that manage it get twice the respect!).

And such exceptions are known historically, if often overlooked, like Julie d'Aubigny (and if you think that was scandalous and a violent female, be glad I didn't pick much more gruesome and depraved women as I could've ranging from actual pirate queens to female cult leaders of extraordinary viciousness, at least the example I chose sounded like a fun character for her time).

And it's not like fights are a circle where they trade face punches, they have soft sides (throats, groins, kidneys, shins, I put one man, a football player, on his knees by bending a single finger of his back to the point the bone was about to snap). And hearing a country song of bullies of a man raping his wife, my grandmother said, "That's what guns are for." A man can't always be around.

Speaking of which, many of the women who got guns in self-defense wanted to stand WITH her man, not behind or in front of him. And because men could not always be there, plenty of men wanted women to learn self-defense, be it guns or something else (just anything other than "a sunny attitude" and "God is bigger than any mugger" nonsense), which I know as when I went to the shooting range I had a lot of men asking me how to convince their wives to learn. (But take note, he did not feel emasculated if she wasn't a helpless child, now THOSE are confident men, not emasculated ones).

I know I'm atypical, and there are many possible reasons for it. While I suspect my grandmother never being married and giving me a stable home is a big part of it (though her daughters took on traditional feminine roles, my mother even a professional model that she now sees as her glory years), and because I didn't read books aimed at girls, at least not as my primary source (though many were popular among both boys AND girls). We learn who to be in those years.

posted February 25, 2023 09:53 PM            

I agree feminism, especially the kind that has become popular today (maybe it always was popular but easily overlooked before the internet) does more harm than good, and even not about equality, but man-hating.

It's so bad that many went after some BS over "manspreading" over a real problem actually worthy of their attention. To avoid a graphic and possibly triggering description, I'll just say that the evidence collected against rapists depended on the class and position of women (and men, too) involved, and whether it was taken seriously or whether just put on the shelf to get dusty, or even thrown away. This was worthy of feminist attention, one that could work with others focused on class, but that didn't fit the "men vs women" narrative they were going for so ignored it, showing how useless they've become today.

It became really clear with one particularly brazen serial rapist who was ignored when attacking lower class women, but after he finally struck a high class woman, a man hunt was immediately began that took him off the streets fast, and he was convicted for life in prison, I think...all the while, the evidence gathered on lower class women (a very uncomfortable, some say traumatizing, experience itself done in a hospital) was still unexamined on shelves. But as this was a CLASS issue rather than gender issue, modern feminism ignored it for some trivial nonsense, because that didn't focus on their hatred of men.

RAINN (a genuine anti-rape network, run by men and women together, and helping men and women) did make progress to stopping this, unlike mainstream feminism, which was ignored. I thought maybe a substantive issue was ignored as "too triggering," but when RAINN put out an article saying that while the US is a violent nation where people are victims of violence all too often, saying the US was a "rape culture" was neither true nor helpful, mainstream feminists dogpiled them showing they WERE paying attention (just not doing anything that would actually be praiseworthy).

Though worth saying that the rapist waited until men were not around, so it didn't matter what kind of man a woman had. Just had to wait for the husband to be at work.

If the rapist had been black, then white supremacists would've been all over it as well, but as he was white they ignored him just as mainstream/toxic feminism did.

There's a lot of parallels between toxic feminism (that I consider mainstream) and white supremacy.

Some examples of what I mean include a desire to have laws that aren't rigorously enforced against a certain race or gender (as it's more about control). The desire for "safe spaces" where those not of the approved race or gender are not allowed when it doesn't make sense save to exclude (as opposed to restrooms or religious convents and the like). Dehumanizing the other (glad to say when I went to a free self-defense course run by feminists--not as good as those run by men and women--that only allowed women, many laughed at my snarky comment of their trying to make us terrified of men, especially the ones we knew, which is not helpful, it's paralyzing, and creates a self-sabotaging victim mentality), and no-win situations (men attended feminists rallies were claimed to be "taking it over" and "mansplaining" but when they stopped showing up then "they did not care, thus giving the nod to the EEEEEVIL patriarchy" though their not going to anti-child abuse rallies where most abusers are women don't make them supportive of child abuse in the same way, so they say). They assume any word said against feminism online is a man, and if not, then "internalized misogyny" whereas white supremacist assume someone not white, or if so, then "white guilt."

These days when anyone asks if I'm a feminist, I say, "Only according to the dictionary." I believe in equality, the right to vote and drive for women (though I do think women get too much preferential treatment in courts--but especially by male judges more than female ones--cases, again a class issue, like Castle Rock vs Gonzales not withstanding).

Just because I think a lot of feminism today is absurd doesn't mean I want women knocked up, barefoot, pregnant, unable to vote as these toxic feminists claim.

At the same time, the answer isn't to be just as reactionary against them to say what all women are like, or should be like, ignoring the laws, social forces, and cherry picking. Or making straight jacket definitions--especially as what is considered masculine and feminine changes over time, sometimes radically, like how blue used to represent the Virgin Mary and thus feminine, and pink the flush of physically active white boys so a masculine color.

Or this, while played for humor, is historically accurate, and not a result of feminism (in the few places where voting was a thing, women seldom had the right while men showed off their wealth by being peacocks):

But then as one said you can have a movement without a god, but not without a devil. If they solved problems then they'd become useless. (And some are just in it for the status, and seem to exhibit no actual awareness of the issues they claim to champion, as in there's no way they should've been able to pass reading comprehension tests to get into college as some of them have). And if people don't feel like victims, then they won't be victims (like a vampire) to groups that blame their problems on other (be it on men, women, minorities, whatever).

I'm just glad I didn't come to age today in West Hollywood where I'm sure I'd be changed into a boy for my tomboy ways, thus reaffirming conservative views of gender despite claiming to be progressive and ignoring "gender is a construct, except when we don't want it to be so we can score woke points by sexually mutilating our kids." (Not that parents have ever been that kind to kids, using them as free labor, bartering them in marriage treating them little better than livestock, sending them to factories sometimes as young as 4 or selling their bodies, which still goes on somewhat despite harsh laws against it, and the abuse and homicide rate against children, primarily by mothers, is intense).

I was punished by peers and adults for not being girly enough, but at least sex reassignment surgery wasn't forced on me. Be glad when that insanity of our age goes away (though there's always some crazy notion that comes and goes).

Plenty of successful women in STEM fields, and few if any are feminist (at least beyond the dictionary label like me). It's the ones who fail at it that look for someone else to blame, which might be men (especially if left leaning), or might be foreigners (if right leaning), and then they join to feel better about their own lack of success, and an excuse to not keep trying because what's the point?

I honestly don't know who did more damage to me, men who saw me as an object, or feminists trying to convince me I was a victim of a male dominated society.

With that in mind, I recall when I took on 3 guys and won. In retrospect, I see the factors involved that I'll skip here other than to say had it been a scheduled cage fight then it would've been completely different in outcome with me going down fast. But still, I prevailed. But unlike one guy who was hailed after he beat up a big guy that menaced him (guy so big he was called Grizzly, and the small guy had to JUMP to punch him in the face!), I wasn't praised for my fighting, but them mocked for running away.

That's another factor, and it's not just feminists who do it. Male anger is seen as dangerous. Female anger and violence is trivialized. (Then again, I was locked up for kicking a boy in the face for goosing me, and the principal told me "boys will be boys" to which I responded "and girls will be girls" -- though the school shrink that sent me was getting bounties so it was an insurance scam more than anything, but the reason of me kicking a boy in the face still worked, and I'm guessing the boy didn't have insurance by his parents, or his parents refused to send him as mine did for their own convenience).

And yet males are somewhat encouraged to act out (often put into "damned if you do, damned if you don't" similar to females, and the "assertive vs creep" is as unfairly arbitrary and vague as "sexy vs slutty"), while females are not, so the violence tends to turn inward for females (but it's not so simple as gender determines the expression, or that one can't do both).

I think it's why some female violence is so over the top, it's the only way to be taken seriously rather than laughed at or seen as funny or cute (and blind spots, like some think Wednesday is a "loner chick" but if a male character were to tie up and torture someone with a taser, it wouldn't be dismissed, and he'd be a bad boy or anti-hero at best rather than our cute Wednesday). (Likewise, a belief that as a woman generally can't beat a man at arm wrestling then she shouldn't even try to fight back, but if a man proves stronger than another man in the same way, then use a weapon, even if it's a two by four or chair. It's all arbitrary, and it's a leash that many try to put all our minds into, working backwards from the conclusion.)

And going back to Grizzly...I knew him. He told me that if he had to fight (which he didn't if he could help it, but you had to keep a reputation up in that area to keep violence to a minimum) then he preferred to fight those of his weight class. Those smaller than him usually pulled weapons. Doesn't matter if you're a hundred pounds/50 kilos heavier if your guts are spilling out before you can stop it, or taking a bullet. And any girlfriend of his wasn't going to have him around all the time anyway.

Oh gods...okay, I DID find this funny (which I just remembered), a voice mail, totally believable to me (familiar with that part of Texas--especially where we have jokes about you know you're a Southerner because you say "ma'am" to old ladies, and if you didn't learn manners, they'll teach you to them the way your mama should've) where a man threatens old ladies (probably some with arthritis and similar problems) who in response pepper spray him and beat the crap out of him with their umbrella, bags, and a cattle prod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGCnZdrh7qA&ab_channel=ZenithQuinn

posted March 14, 2023 11:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SleepyDiary:
Sometimes i don�t understand why certain signs are Masculine and why some are Feminine like these signs. I find Libras really feminine for a Masculine sign and i find Caps and Virgos Masculine for a Feminine sign. Masculine traits to me are people that don�t like to deal with emotions both from themselves and others and feels extremely uncomfortable doing so which is very common among Virgos and Caps esp in those that have Moons in these signs. Brainy types i also find ��Masculine��
Non romantics
��Hard�� types are all really Masculine traits to me which i have seen in these two Signs a lot. I find them similar to the character Red foreman from That 70�s show.

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What you just described is feminine men and masculine women.

In some psychology studies men naturally have an energetically feminine psyche, so when they're being quiet, brooding, introverted, they are expressing their "feminine" polarity, while women express masculine energy by being outgoing, expressive, talkative, hypersocial, loud etc... The way we perceive stereotypes of men and women really isn't about what society thinks it is.

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"One of the most interesting and provocative archetypes we encounter in Jungian Psychology is that of the Anima and Animus.

The Anima/Animus relates to our inner or soul life. Not soul as understood in metaphysical terms as something which lives on beyond our physical existence but rather soul as in the inner force that animates us.

These soul definitions stem from a time, when Jung was doing this work, where the gender roles were more traditionally and clearly differentiated. So some of what follows in the definition of the Anima/Animus may not apply today. However, much of it still has value.

Androgyny and the Contra Sexuality
The psyche is such that it contains and embraces both the feminine and masculine. It is inherently an androgynous entity regardless of what the gender of the physical person is.

The personality or persona naturally takes on the gender role that you are born to physically. Not always, as we know, but this is the general default orientation.

Women take on a feminine role and persona.

Men take on a masculine role and persona.

The psyche compensates for this by birthing a contra sexuality in the inner life of the person. So:

Women have a contra sexuality which is masculine in nature and this is called the Animus.

Men have a contra sexuality which is feminine in nature and this is called the Anima.