posted November 08, 2009 01:27 PM         

Sometimes its okay
to be firm.

Sometimes it is the only thing
that a bully understands.

I don't like it
any more than you do.

posted November 08, 2009 01:31 PM         

So, then, you do understand
the sense in which I used the words.

Why do you play dumb with me?

In order to feign humility?

You are no more humble than I am.
Just be honest about it, as I am.

We are what we are.

Some are more developed than others.
Excellence is nothing to be ashamed of.

"Don't hide your candle under a bushel."

posted November 08, 2009 01:32 PM         

Depends who you believe.

I think the difference is light.

The light of consciousness.

Awareness of truth.

posted November 08, 2009 01:37 PM         

I envy your confidence.

posted November 08, 2009 01:41 PM         

or, let me be myself, my excellent self, my ultimate excellence and reply to you....

....
....

...

how excellent am i?

what if i was so excellent to you that i thought it better not to share this? after all, if i'm excellent? why would i be ashamed of it? and if you could not get it? shall i feel ashamed, embarassed by it?

posted November 08, 2009 01:42 PM         

quote:

---

I think the difference is light.

The light of consciousness.

Awareness of truth.

Not pride.

---

LOL! I think I had my laugh of the day.

posted November 08, 2009 01:45 PM         

what? The mentioning of ARies, Leo and some (unevolved) earth signs make this astrology related?

Okay, okay.
You are right, this IS astrology related.
Maybe I just find it a bit unsatisfyingly generalized and oversimplified.

Besides I hardly read anything about astrology in your last replies in this thread.

I don`t have really anything astrological to contribute to this either, so I don`t.

posted November 08, 2009 01:54 PM         

take care valus, and just take the best of all this to heart.

posted November 08, 2009 02:31 PM         

I feel them, totally.

YES, Leo me, I know exactly what you mean by the unevolved fire/earth-signs.
Simply because I'm a Leo/Virgo asc., totally metamorphosed by......

Let I give you this little secret; in my terms, '(un)evolved' has nothing to do with past lives or reincarnation (simply because I don't believe in it - anymore) but purely with the human evolvedness, nothing less, nothing more.

And if I read your words well enough, it isn't also YOUR thing to be fanatical about the "souldegree" (sometimes I think you're a real nice word-player )

The whole source of problems seems to be related to the interpretation of "evolvedness"...

posted November 08, 2009 02:32 PM         

Could it be that their lack of drive and focus which holds them back from creating and maintaining a strong social group, achieving finacial security, and fulfilling one's dreams?

Furthrmore, I find it ironic that they hold others in such contempt yet when they are quetioned about their circumstances or are criticized about their lack of focus and the drive to achieve, they end up playing the victim... Weeping over others not understaning their circumstance and trying to box them into conformity.

posted November 08, 2009 03:20 PM         

______________________________________

It's a jungle out here. There are some things that, if you dare to talk about them, people will say you're obsessed with them. Just like, if you talk openly about faults which belong more readily to the shadow side of one sign or element than another, people will say you're generalizing and singling somebody out. But, what's the big deal? Every person has faults, every sign and every element has faults. Astrology is an art based on generalizing. It's harder for Leos to avoid the pitfalls of egocentricity, just as its harder for Pisceans to avoid the pirfalls of sensitivity. To borrow a comparison Chris Rock used, accusing a Leo of narcissism is, to some extent, "like faulting the retarded kid for double-dribbling; some things you just gotta let slide." We've all got stuff. Some stuff bothers me particularly, and I'm honest about that, but I think I'm equally offended by, and equally tolerant of, the shadows of all the signs and elements, just as I'm equally in love with their lighter sides. There are things I truly adore about Aries and Leo and all the the Earth Signs. But that's not what this thread is about. No matter how hard you try to make yourself clear, somebody is going to accuse you of generalizing if you don't say everything; and, of course, its impossible to say everything. And no matter how clear and direct you are (even if you have mars tightly conjunct mercury in a fire sign!), if you struggle to elaborate and explain yourself, somebody will tell you you're deliberately obscuring your arguments in order to make yourself sound intelligent. C'est la vie! The world is full of imbeciles and jerks who have nothing better to do than tear you down, and the straighter you stand, the more fun it is for them to try and bow you down. You have to be above it. Aquila non captat muscas ("the eagle doesn't capture flies").

Xodian,

posted November 08, 2009 03:27 PM         

Take a step back.

Look at the real reasons
for your hostility.

Everything you're saying
is completely unfair.

This thread is as much
about astrology as any.

And a certain amount
of generalizing is intrinsic
to the art of astrology.

I shouldn't have to explain that,
or repeat what I've already posted,
and already repeated, on this thread:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Few people have as deep an appreciation for the complexity and the limits of astrology as I do. In order to bring astrology to bear on this thread, I'm willing to suggest that the failing I draw attention to corresponds most frequently to unevolved Aries, Leos, and Earth Signs. But I'm well aware that emphasis should be placed on the words most frequently (as in, not always) and unevolved (as in, the more evolved members of these signs will not likely make this mistake; just as the evolved members of all the signs won't). And I'm well aware that a million things, like other placements, aspects, and house positions, all enter into the big picture. But we should beware of the pitfalls and shadows most common to our predominant planets, signs, or elements. I see the problem here as somehow reflecting an imbalance in favor of the Fire and Earth elements, without an appreciation for the more digressive and cerebral elements of Water and Air.

posted November 08, 2009 03:27 PM         

Quite frankly, the fire and/or earth signs are probably trying to just get you out of their hair if they are being incredibly blunt/direct/rude/insensitive. I've been known to rain on the parade of some air and water signs if all they are doing is having verbal diarrhea and don't actually want to have a MEANINGFUL exchange of ideas/thoughts.

However I've also had some really great philosophical/deeply emotional conversations with them as well. They have some really great insights and ideas. Things that I don't always think of not because I'm not intelligent, but because my interests and focus aren't in the same place that theirs are at (and it works vice versa too; I have ideas that they may have never considered).

posted November 08, 2009 03:46 PM         

quote:

---

If you want to be a bringer of light, you generally don't throw water on everyone else's light.

---

Precisely what this thread is pointing out; an instance where people throw water on somebody else's light. Something that happens far too frequently.. an imbalance rooted in the fundamental misconceptions of our culture... And I'm not saying there is no value in the approach, but that it is already valued much too highly, and, in my opinion, taking a shot or two at it is exactly what the doctor ordered.

quote:

---

Quite frankly, the fire and/or earth signs are probably trying to just get you out of their hair if they are being incredibly blunt/direct/rude/insensitive.

---

Not me, honey. They're the ones getting in my hair. I do my own thing, generally. But they come in looking for easy answers and solid ground and -- whoops! -- the world is still spinning.

quote:

---

I've been known to rain on the parade of some air and water signs if all they are doing is having verbal diarrhea and don't actually want to have a MEANINGFUL exchange of ideas/thoughts.

---

Yeah, I know what you mean. My parades get rained on for just the opposite reason. People think they're too serious, too intricate and involved, and much too controversially loaded with MEANING.

quote:

---

However I've also had some really great philosophical/deeply emotional conversations with them as well. They have some really great insights and ideas. Things that I don't always think of not because I'm not intelligent, but because my interests and focus aren't in the same place that theirs are at (and it works vice versa too; I have ideas that they may have never considered).

---

Well said.

quote:

---

My guess is that you're missing the gifts of the "do it now" people. Perhaps you should look a little closer or listen a little harder. THAT is what an "evolved" person tries to do.

---

posted November 08, 2009 03:47 PM         

"This is the astroforum, and so the threads should be including astrology.
For philosophical discussions, unrelated to astrology, there are other forums on this board."

"what exactly do you think I DID assume?"

"what? The mentioning of ARies, Leo and some (unevolved) earth signs make this astrology related?

Okay, okay.
You are right, this IS astrology related.
Maybe I just find it a bit unsatisfyingly generalized and oversimplified.

Besides I hardly read anything about astrology in your last replies in this thread.

I don`t have really anything astrological to contribute to this either, so I don`t.

BTW I certainly do not think that you think too much."

You wrote:
"Take a step back."
From what?

"Look at the real reasons
for your hostility."
What hostility?
And why do you assume you know the reasons for whatever I am doing, thinking or saying?

"Everything you're saying
is completely unfair."

Is it unfair to point out that this is an astrology forum, and that the threads should be related to astrology?

Is it unfair to say that I find these generalizations and oversimplifications unsatisfying? It is my opinion.
Do you feel treated unfairly, just because I voice my own opinion?

"This thread is as much
about astrology as any."
How?

Well, maybe it is, and it is enough for you; for me it is not. It`s "newspaper-astrology", and that is for me a much too superficial kind of astrology.

"And a certain amount
of generalizing is intrinsic
to the art of astrology."
That is true. A *certain* amount.
Like you said it.

"I shouldn't have to explain that,
or repeat what I've already posted,
and already repeated, on this thread:"
You don`t need to. Repetition doesn`t make it any more convincing to me.