posted December 23, 2009 08:50 AM         

Hope this translation sounds as powerful as it does in my mother language! (yeah ofcourse it does)

Work and boredom.- Looking for work in order to be paid:

posted December 23, 2009 12:19 PM         

Every time I hear that siren song.

A man after my own heart.

A rare and difficult breed.

Light-headed,

at the height of sobriety.

posted December 23, 2009 12:31 PM         

"I Don't Want To Grow Up"
THE RAMONES

When I'm lyin' in my bed at night
I don't wanna grow up
Nothing ever seems to turn out right
I don't wanna grow up
How do you move in a world of fog that's
always changing things
Makes me wish that I could be a dog
When I see the price that you pay
I don't wanna grow up
I don't ever want to be that way
I don't wanna grow up
Seems that folks turn into things
that they never want
The only thing to live for is today...
I'm gonna put a hole in my T.V. set
I don't wanna grow up
Open up the medicine chest
I don't wanna grow up
I don't wanna have to shout it out
I don't want my hair to fall out
I don't wanna be filled with doubt
I don't wanna be a good boy scout
I don't wanna have to learn to count
I don't wanna have the biggest amount
I don't wanna grow up
Well when I see my parents fight
I don't wanna grow up
They all go out and drinkin all night
I don't wanna grow up
I'd rather stay here in my room
Nothin' out there but sad and gloom
I don't wanna live in a big old tomb on grand street
When I see the 5 oclock news
I don't wanna grow up
Comb their hair and shine their shoes
I don't wanna grow up
Stay around in my old hometown
I don't wanna put no money down
I don't wanna get a big old loan
Work them fingers to the bone
I don't wanna float on a broom
Fall in love, get married then boom
How the hell did it get here so soon
I don't wanna grow up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaglXj7RL1Y

"Working Class Hero"
John Lennon

posted December 27, 2009 01:00 AM         

Valus ~

quote:

---

I think it's fascinating how many jobs there are in the world that produce nothing of value, and that ultimately just waste time, energy, and resources, and often exercise a primarily negative moral, intellectual, physical, and/or spiritual influence.

---

quote:

---

We can all think of people who are both dreamers and active in worldy affairs, finding places for themselves within established channels, or creating new avenues of expression. They have a decent balance of both worlds, but they very rarely have the best of either.

---

quote:

---

This enormous amount of "busy work" interests me. Also, the people who do it, day in and day out, in order to "earn" a paycheck, interest me. Do they ever reflect on the bigger picture, and the ultimate value of their work?

---

quote:

---

But what is much more difficult to understand, is how so many material things that are relatively, or completely, unnecessary have been allowed to consume so much of our resources, -- not the least of which are our human resources; the time and energy of the men and women who labor for the production of these superfluous material things.

---

quote:

---

The thrust of the thread has more to do with examining the value of our work; who decides value, and how important is it to do valuable work, as opposed to superfluous or harmful work.

---

By definition, “work” is: 1. activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity 2. a : something produced or accomplished by effort, exertion, or exercise of skill <this book is the work of many hands> b : something produced by the exercise of creative talent or expenditure of creative effort : artistic production <an early work by a major writer>

Is the value of my work lesser or greater than the value of your work? **Is** that value important?? Do you feel driven and/or qualified to judge that??
Don’t we each have our own gifts and our own tasks?? You’ve said that we do – if that is truly so, then can you not trust me to fill my life with what I value and allow you the same consideration??

As far as I’m concerned, WORK joins many other short, slippery 4-letter words in its inability to be specifically and accurately confined and dragged down into precise definition. I like my work, whether it’s my gainful employment or my working with jewelry (non-gainful employment). Years ago, I reconciled myself to “work” – for me, it’s really all in one’s attitude towards one’s work, whatever that work might be. If you are happy, satisfied and feel fulfilled being a garbage collector, then you have my respect and admiration that you have found your “place,” because I would **not** feel happy, satisfied and fulfilled doing such work.

quote:

---

nothing scares me more than suffering without a purpose

---

quote:

---

I think I accomplish more good in the world, and am much happier, working alone.

---

quote:

---

I have said, repeatedly, that it's subjective;
that there is no right way, or, at least,
no way to objectively determine the right way,
and that we, each of us, individually,
have a responsibility to use our own gifts
in order to determine what, for us,
constitutes the right way.

---

quote:

---

But those people on the margins
often know what the everyman faces.
They absorb his "quiet desperation",
and reflect it in the chaos in their cries,
from the depths of their madness; from the
mad heart of the collective unconscious.
They are the recepticles,
the scapegoats and sacrificial lambs,
who hanged themselves on our loose threads;
who couldn’t make sense of our nonsense;
and cared for what we couldn't save.

---

posted December 27, 2009 01:14 PM         

That will be my funeral songs!

For HIS everlasting night my best friend/pseudo-dad/philosopher has chosen "Welcome to the Machine" (pink floyd)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u07oXPKefQ

wow . . . . .

posted December 27, 2009 10:12 PM         

quote:

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Shura, I was very pleased to see your stats

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Oh F*CK!!

posted December 28, 2009 02:13 AM         

While I'm not obligated to go deeper here, to say more, or to "chew your meat for you", I will be happy to respond to your questions. I think it'll be clearest if we begin here:

quote:

---

But didn’t you just say that “The thrust of the thread has more to do with examining the value of our work; who decides value, and how important is it to do valuable work, as opposed to superfluous or harmful work.”?? Your premise was “who decides” and your conclusion (?) is “it’s subjective.”

---

There's no contradiction here, 'Zala. Philosophy is primarily about asking questions, reformulation those questions, and learning how to ask the right questions. It's about getting you to think. Let me repeat that. It's about getting YOU to think. My answers are not that important to me, and they should be of even less interest to you. The questions, and the confrontations with eternal themes, -- that is the crux now, as it always has been; regardless of the particular question under consideration, and regardless of the answers I give.

If the response that value is subjective sounds insufficient or contradictory to you, I'm afraid it cannot be helped. It has more to do with the paradoxical nature of reality as we experience it than with anything else. Under the circumstances, "it's subjective" is a perfectly good answer, and, -- as all good answers should, -- it raises a number of important questions all by itself. If you want more concrete responses, I can only tell you what my personal tastes are. But that much is not up for debate. If you resonate with it, "great", and if not, "oh well".

quote:

---

I would like to get a clearer grasp of what you find “a waste.”

---

Would you? I'm not so sure.
And, anyway, what I think is not
as relevant as what you think.
I'm merely here to ask the question,
and the questions are universal.
My answers, however, are my own.
I may share them, or I may not.
And you may agree, or disagree.
But what matters is that you get
closer to your own values.

quote:

---

I don’t consider the manufacture of washing machines (for example) a waste of time, energy and resources, but that’s just my opinion…..

---

And I'm inclined to agree with it.
There are plenty of modern conveniences
which I am all in favor of keeping.

But can you think of some things that
really have no special meaning or purpose?

I could tell you some that I have in mind
(and I've mentioned more than a few already),
but that obscures, rather than elucidates,
what is best in this thread.

quote:

---

Could you please name five for the purposes of illustration?? And please clarify how you arrived at the conclusion that they have the best of neither, when you probably have not walked a mile in their shoes, nor seen their lives through **their** values and **their** perceptions…..

---

I'd rather not "name names" for you, 'Zala, as that isn't the most productive use of our time here. I will say that most, if not all, of the "conclusions" I arrive at are tentative. Even the word "conclusions" is used tentatively, and with a relatively well-developed sense (if I do say so myself) of the ambiguity that underlies all human perception and reasoning. It has been my experience (or, to be precise, it has been my interpretation of my experience), that what I am calling extreme or marginal qualities are rare and tend to exist in relative isolation, while more moderate qualities are common and tend to be found in collaboration with other moderate qualities. The rarest of all, however, would be the type represented by, for example, Leonardo da Vinci; who manifests a harmonious balance of opposing extremes. Granted, I can only speculate on these things from my own unique vantage point, and no matter how much of an empath I may be (or may believe myself to be), I can never really walk in another person's shoes; to say nothing of their skin. I can only tell you what appears to me. And, in this instance, it is not something which I could communicate to you by rational argumentation. I confess, I am unconscious of the reasons; if they are rational, it is not to my credit, for I never bothered to rationalize them. This has always been a watery matter. One for the gut, so to speak. I "conclude" that an individual is extraordinarily sensitive, insensitive, talented, worldly, etc., in the same manner that I draw my verdict on an article of art, -- that is, whether or not it is, and ought to be called, "art". I feel it. If this response is insufficient for you, again, I must insist that you take it up with the manufacturer, or Creator, if you prefer.

quote:

---

I wonder if you would judge my job as “busy work?”

---

What I think is irrelevant,
but some questions you might
want to ask yourself are:

What purpose does it serve?
And, I mean, what larger purpose;
apart from housing and feeding
you and your son; which any
number of jobs could do?

Is it necessary?

Is it helpful?

Is it toxic?

Can it be misused?
If so, how? --
How easily?
And how severely?

Does it provide a service that
may not be adequately filled
by another product or service?

Did it exist fifty years ago,
and, if not, was it missed?

Does the value of this product or service
justify the corresponding expenditure
of natural and human resources,
at all levels of production?

Is it the best use of your time,
energy, talent, and resources?

These are questions I cannot answer for you,
but I'm more than happy to help you ask them.

quote:

---

And is there an appropriate amount of time that you would stipulate I should reflect on the bigger picture and ultimate value of my work??

---

Until you're satisfied with the answers
which you've provided yourself; at least,
enough to bring them to the stage of
experimentation, -- or, until circumstances
force you to act without reflecting, --
or, until you die.

If reflection itself is a part of your
higher vocation, then you can probably
expect this stage to last quite a while.

quote:

---

Should it matter to me, and should I change my path, if you judge that there is no ultimate value in my work but **I** find value in my work??

---

Of course not.
Not only should it not bother you,
but, I am willing to suggest that,
very likely, it cannot bother you,
unless you already have doubts,
conscious or unconscious, of your own.

quote:

---

Jean Auel put it very well with her illustration that only a group who has taken care of the basic necessities of life can AFFORD the time, energy and resources to produce “superfluous material things,” such as items of personal adornment and computer chips and My Little Ponies…..

---

I would argue that a person who has reached a higher level of consciousness, -- a level which may be termed "impersonal", -- would formulate this differently. Or perhaps it is unnecessary to reformulate it, but only to consider the meaning of the word "group". A person who is entirely selfish would not even have the notion of providing for the group, but only for the self. At the next level, there is group awareness, but it is exclusive, and the inclusivity of the term "group" only gradually increases, as consciousness reaches higher levels. In other words, we begin by thinking of ourselves, then our family, then our friends, then our "tribe", race, or national/cultural organization, people we identify with relatively closely, etc. At a certain level, we even begin to think of providing for the needs of non-human animals. When viewed from this vantage point, 'Zala, I can agree with Auel's position. The conclusion I reach, though, is that there are many in the group to which I belong (a vastly inclusive group, I'm afraid) who cannot take care of the basic necessities of life, and until all the members of this group are provided for, I don't see how any of us can "afford" superfluous things. Nevertheless, despite having understood this, I make no claim to have brought my life into accordance with it. I am a hypocrite, as anyone is, whose understanding exceeds their will. I am a sinner, yes, and I am all the more a sinner, for having seen the light.

quote:

---

Who **does** decide value, Valus?? At the risk of being tedious, I must say: what you value, I may not, and vice-versa. And what if I find value in what you find superfluous?? And when you say examining the value of “our” work, how do you mean that?? What precisely is your “work” at this present time?? What precisely is the value of “my” work?? Can you or should you decree that my work has little or no value??

---

With all due respect, 'Zala, I decide. I don't know how to make this any clearer. I am the final arbiter of truth, for me. If you don't like it, you can always feel free to decide on your own truth. You can start by asking yourself to answer the very questions you are asking me to answer right now.

Consider that there are people selling objects right now which you would not receive into your keeping without a hefty sum; not only would you not pay for them, but you would expect to be paid handsomely for having them. And, yet, there are people who will pay for those things, and who value them deeply. Hence, somebody somewhere has a job selling something which, to you, is less than worthless. How do you decide upon the value of that job? Is it valuable whenever someone values it?

What we begin to see is that we each have parallel value structures -- one which reflects what we personally value, and one which reflects our respect for others' value structures. Often, these two conflict. For instance, you may personally believe that so-and-so would make a better president, but you also value and respect majority rule, so, even if somebody votes against your candidate, you may still consider that the vote has value. On the other hand, your respect for the values (and votes) of others may be tested, if you're forced to compromise your own values to a critical degree. Suppose the majority is comprised of Nazis. Is every vote equal then? Or do some (should some) carry more weight than others? And who decides the greater or lesser value of a vote? As I've tried to show, the matter is highly subjective, and conflict is an inevitability. There's no way to make sure that what's truly valuable is what's valued, or that the good guys will win. Whoever wins will just call themselves "the good guys"; and whoever has might, will decide what makes right.

As for me...
in the words of Maxim Gorky,
"I came into the world to disagree."

quote:

---

By definition, “work” is: 1. activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something: a : sustained physical or mental effort to overcome obstacles and achieve an objective or result b : the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood c : a specific task, duty, function, or assignment often being a part or phase of some larger activity 2. a : something produced or accomplished by effort, exertion, or exercise of skill <this book is the work of many hands> b : something produced by the exercise of creative talent or expenditure of creative effort : artistic production <an early work by a major writer>

---

Yup.

quote:

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Is the value of my work lesser or greater than the value of your work?

---

Good question.
I don't know.
What is your work?

quote:

---

**Is** that value important??

---

I'm not sure what you mean. The question of value concerns the determining of what constitutes importance. So, yes, it is.

quote:

---

Do you feel driven and/or qualified to judge that??

---

Not so much driven, as whipped.
I may or may not be more or less
qualified than "the next guy",
but it seems to me that I have
no choice but to observe my
instincts and make deductions.
Deciding fundamental questions
of value is what you might call
"an existential imperative".
It's inescapable, I think.

quote:

---

Don’t we each have our own gifts and our own tasks?? You’ve said that we do – if that is truly so, then can you not trust me to fill my life with what I value and allow you the same consideration??

---

Again, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you trust a man who has a gun to your back? You might have to. You might have no choice. But your choices, -- the ones you do have, -- are going to be based on your own values, and they are going to impact me. Meanwhile, my choices are going to be based on my values, and are going to impact you. And round and round we go. So, while I admire the notion of trust, and "I go my way, you go yours", the reality is far more Plutonian than Venusian; we cannot help but get in each other's way. Now, maybe you think I should be payed for what I do, or maybe you think I should be locked up. Bottom line, I'm going to be payed or locked up, primarily, according to somebody else's estimation of my work -- somebody else's values. This is what AG meant, I think, when he said that the audience, or the marketplace, is the final judge. My response is, just because "they" have the last word, doesn't make "them" right. A crucified messiah is still a messiah. So, no, I don't trust them, or you, to decide my fate. But I accept it, because it is my fate.

quote:

---

As far as I’m concerned, WORK joins many other short, slippery 4-letter words in its inability to be specifically and accurately confined and dragged down into precise definition. I like my work, whether it’s my gainful employment or my working with jewelry (non-gainful employment).

---

I hear you, and I think this is an important point, well worth making. Work, for me, is incredibly numinous. I cannot say where it begins or leaves off. I'm always working, in some sense, for better or worse. Every thing I do, according to the way I do it, has repercussions in the world. Of those repercussions, or consequences, only the merest tip of the iceberg is visible to me. The far greater part of what I do is unknown to me, and it continues to go on, unbeknownst to me. If I have aimed my arrow well, it may not be intercepted by a target for some time yet; it may go straight to the heart of a person, and lodge itself there, becoming a wound that heals. All this takes time. Sure, we understand the time a great work often requires in the hands of its creator, -- but do we know of the (often much longer) time it takes when it has left his hands? The work of an artist is his fruit, but every fruit also bears seed after its kind. I feel the truth of it intuitively, that the greatest work done by an artist or a philosopher goes on after the material representation of the work has been encountered. It takes place in the secret chambers of the soul of the viewer or reader, and it ultimately produces changes which are rarely credited to the artist, the philosopher, or her work. Thus, my Jupiter in the 8th is interpreted, "supports others in unseen and difficult-to-understand ways," and it makes perfect sense to me.

quote:

---

Years ago, I reconciled myself to “work” – for me, it’s really all in one’s attitude towards one’s work, whatever that work might be. If you are happy, satisfied and feel fulfilled being a garbage collector, then you have my respect and admiration that you have found your “place,” because I would **not** feel happy, satisfied and fulfilled doing such work.

---

Personal pleasure is just one aspect of what makes a job valuable. In order to be truly valuable, the work must also help more people than it harms. Sometimes, though, if a person takes true joy in their work, that may be enough to make it worthwhile, not just to them, but to others as well. As it is written, "If you love the work you do, the work you do is love,". Just as, "if you grudge the crushing of the grapes, your grudge distils a poison in the wine,". Provided that one may choose between two lines of work, both of which are enjoyable, but only one of which is truly philanthropic, it would make sense to choose the latter. It would appear that most of us are in this boat, and may have our pick, to some extent. That being the case, I wish to encourage people to choose work which they not only enjoy, but find meaningful for the world, as well.

posted December 28, 2009 07:39 PM         

____________________________________________
Provided that one may choose between two lines of work, both of which are enjoyable, but only one of which is truly philanthropic, it would make sense to choose the latter. It would appear that most of us are in this boat, and may have our pick, to some extent. That being the case, I wish to encourage people to choose work which they not only enjoy, but find meaningful for the world, as well.
____________________________________________

it would make sense to YOU, valus, because you think philanthropy is the yardstick. perhaps it is..

posted December 29, 2009 11:48 AM         

Kat, is Love not the yardstick, for you?
I think we would be much better off if
more farmers thought about the big picture.
And I think a lot of them do, and are
concerned about genetically-modified crops
and how they are playing a part that has
huge ramifications, for better and worse,
throughout the world.

posted December 29, 2009 12:35 PM         

another question... if I don't need money but some members of my family DO, what is best?

and if I have kids, what kind of example do I want to imprint in my child's mind (because I will let a mark, no matter if I want or not)? the one of an idle philosopher, a working philosopher, a working bee or an idle sheep?

if I have kids, it's not just them that will be influenced by me, but through them, every other generations.

posted December 29, 2009 12:53 PM         

question A: no! (**remember to develops when I come back from work tonight**)

question B: curse the darkness of course.

question C:
I want my kids to decide by themselves, because I trust them, and I want to have provided to them the best example that I could have because I love them and that is the most I can do

you can work in an office or on a construction site and know about nietzche's ideas, while not knowing his name. because nietzche was just a anslator of something to which we all have access; and if I was born 1000 years ago in Americas or 3000 in china, I would have been capable of grasping nietzsche's ideas' meaning regardless of the fact that I know about HIM and most importantly regardless of wether or not he himslef grasped these ideas.

posted December 29, 2009 01:22 PM         

quote:

---

are work and philosophy mutually exclusive?

---

As the Novalis quote suggests, it's my contention that they are compatible. While work is not a form of philosophy (or, is only one by a forced stretch of the imagination), philosophy is most definitely a form of work. The philosopher is at work nearly every time his mental gears are turning, and nearly every time he opens his mouth or writes anything down. Philosophy is a natural vocation; that is, some are born to philosophize. Likewise, carpentry, cooking, and many other jobs you can think of, come naturally to certain people. While some people may try to make the argument that philosophy is not work, you can see for yourself how hard they must work (and philosophize) in trying to make it, lol.

quote:

---

if I don't need money
but some members of my family DO,
what is best?

---

Listen to your heart.
What does it tell you?

quote:

---

kids, what kind of example do I want to imprint in my child's mind (because I will let a mark, no matter if I want or not)? the one of an idle philosopher, a working philosopher, a working bee or an idle sheep?

---

Well, you need to be mindful of the way you see and express things. Your bias will make something appear in a negative light. What can seem like idleness, may be appreciation for the little things, and for the universe, and for the questions and answers which have already been asked and given; a way of valueing ideas, emotions, and people, rather than the slavish production of more things. It depends how you look at it. Your disposition will incline you to see it in a positive or negative light, depending on what is best for yourself. But as for what is best for your child -- that will be revealed by his or her own disposition. My advice is to observe the child's natural inclinations, and to encourage what is in alignment with the child's path. If your child is a naturally reflective, or "idle", breed, then you may only suppress his or her gifts and create a complex by setting expectations which are completely out of line with his or her nature. Conversely, if the child is naturally active, interested in the natural world and in practical application, and likes working with his or her hands, then you want to encourage industriousness. Of course, we would all like to set the most ideal examples before our children, but we must be careful not to hold them up to idealistic expectations. Less than one in a million children will be able, even with the best rearing and education, to exemplify the ideal. So, while you remind them of what is ideal, you also need to allow them to be who they are, and let them know that it is okay to be who they are. Even if they are an idle philosopher -- although, personally, I can see nothing idle about philosophy; to me, it seems to always touch upon what is needful and important; and I suspect that it is impossible to philosophize without learning, and thereby accomplishing, something of value.

quote:

---

if I have kids,
it's not just them that will be influenced by me,
but through them, every other generations.

---

Certainly. As concerns the personal self,
this is the only real immortality we know.

I will add that there are different kinds
of influence, or different ways to influence,
and that I am more impressed by the influences
which do not impose expectations, but, rather,
allow what is best in an individual to come thru.

quote:

---

but first, back to square one,
are philosophising and being a working bee
mutually exclusive?

---

posted December 29, 2009 01:22 PM         

I'm a recovering marginal, I was born on a 7th, I have neptune 1 degree conjunct my sun/moon midpoint, squaring saturnn(4) on one side and MC (5) on the other.
my neptune is sextile my sun (4) and my moon (6), square venus (5)
I'm the son of a man who died at 40 as an alcoholic homeless; Luckily I never took drugs except marijuana and alcohol, otherwise I might not hold the same discourse today. i have been lucky to go to university and study political theory in a foreign languague, but I have chosen to work a nameless job where I will not get any recognition, except that of a fuming boss who ask me why I devered a costumer late.

I don't mind this status, because I don't need anyone's approval to be ME, and to be me is more complex than it appears on the surface, like anyone else actually.

there is one thing though, I want money, I want loads of money, and you know what I would do with it? micro-credit. not sure the correct english word. it's basically like a bank, u lend money with 0 interest and you are accomodating; but there needs money to do that.

also, I would love to refurbish houses to give a roof and dignity to people who've lost it. but that's just a dream, at least on the scale I want it.

and if I had pursued into politics, I would liked to get busy on the anti-personal bombs issues. here again, not sure the english word. it's those little dirty things manufactured by all our modern nations, little boombs that are buried in fields and kill or necessitate amputation of normal people, civilians. dirty bombs. (but I still have some contacts, and hopefully in time (i'm 30) I will try to do whatever I can to influence someone in that I think of in particular

posted December 29, 2009 01:40 PM         

However, I'm not so sure that many of Neitzsche's ideas would be graspable by anyone, at any time, and in any place, in the past or future. In fact, I'm quite sure that Nietzsche is regularly misunderstood by even the people we'd expect to be most capable of grasping his meaning. Also, even if he was "merely" a "translator" of universal themes, this is not to be underestimated. We often see things in the work of geniuses which we recognize and have thought, but the thought is clearer, -- not just well articulated, but well delineated -- and placed in a context which relates it to other thoughts (ones we may be familiar with, but may never have connected). It is not the thought, so much as the relation between the thoughts, which reveals genius. Also, the form of the thought is as important, and often more important, than its content. The content may be universal, but the form -- the particular image, the metaphor, or the style, -- is unique to the artistic and philosophical mind. And because the form is what allows the content to come through, the content is equally enhanced and enlarged by the form. So, while we may identify with one of Nietzsche's thoughts, we may not really grasp it as Nietzsche did. Just as, at times in your life, something, some truth, occurs to you in a fresh way -- its something you always knew, or thought you knew, but suddenly it occurs to you with unexpected poignancy and urgency, as though you have never really understood it before and are only now grasping it for the first time! This is what philosophers and artists do. They see and articulate things -- the things we've all seen and tried to articulate, -- in a new and fresh way, and they take something we think of as cliche and transfigure it before us, so that it strikes us with the force of a revelation. Then we see that we know things on deeper, and ever deeper, levels. And that we may never really say that we know anything, since all knowing is relative, and relatively shallow in comparison with what might yet be known. Upon reflection, we may "discover" what has always been before us. The sky, the tree, the stone. And, all the while, we thought we knew these things. What did we know?

posted December 29, 2009 01:56 PM         

I have the Galactic Center conjunct my Sun/Moon midpoint exactly, right on the cusp of the 12th house (Placidus) or in the 12th (Whole Signs). Always wondered what that meant. Neptune rules my South Node from the 12th, where it is joined by two personal planets. Neptune also semi-squares my Moon (-1), sextiles my stellium-ruler (-1), squares my chart-ruler (-5), semi-sextiles my Venus/MC/Uranus (-1), and exactly inconjuncts my Imum Coeli. My stellium is in the Pisces Decan of Scorpio, and the most heavily aspected planet in my chart rules my 12th house.

Beat that!

posted December 29, 2009 02:13 PM         

beat that?

asteroid Chimera opp neptune (0) and sun/moon midpoint (1)

a bit like a blind and deaf drug addict. always high, and when not, still out of touch

edit: you win valus (although if my pisces placements count,... I have mercury, MC and venus there) but I think in the last decade, I've seen enough of illusions and desillusions. i'm looking for some solid stuff that will satisfy my virgo saturn as a freshly post saturn's returner

galactic center on sun/moon mp is very interesting, maybe a galactic destiny??

posted December 29, 2009 02:20 PM         

I dont have the GC
and my Sun/Moon conjunct.

GC is exactly conjunct
Pallas and the 12th cusp,
semi-square my Sun.