posted April 22, 2010 06:21 PM         

But I think everyone is entitled to their own relationship style -- what works for them.

There are people who feel monogamous relationships (both emotionally and physically) are "important" for whatever reason.. they have particular values.

I think that as long as the relationship "style" is agreed upon and everyone is happy with what they have.. that's FINE.

But when the values of the individual people are extremely different - there needs to be some form of compromise.. Otherwise things are bound to hit a dead end.

I don't believe anyone should impose their own values upon someone else.

So for example -- if your values are "sexual freedom above all" and you meet a person who is strongly *pro* monogamous relationships.. Then you either discuss this and compromise.. or you simply do *not* go there.

You cannot enter the relationship *saying* you will be faithful and monogamous.. and then doing the opposite. I find that morally wrong.. because it is dishonest.

But personally (this is JUST me) - I am not highly affected by physical things. I've said to my exes (my two long term exes).. that if they did cheat and it was *purely* physical it would not be a big deal to me. Strangely both reacted with outrage.. and told me they *never* would. They'd feel they were doing something wrong. I tried to explain it was not wrong from my perspective. One of them replied that it would harm *him* if I cheated sexually.. and for that reason he couldn't do it to me -- even if it doesn't bother me (he is Libra with Libra Venus so I guess he was trying to be fair about it).

posted April 22, 2010 06:37 PM         

if i wanted to see more than one person, i think as long as you are honest you aren't cheating anyone.

however, i wouldn't marry someone if i wanted to see other people. to each thier own. when i really love someone, i dont really even look at other men. thats just my gig, and i would only marry if that person felt the same way about me.

if i wanted to date 3 men at a time, that is because i don't love any of them particularly and they would all know i was seeing other people. no big thing.

posted April 22, 2010 06:41 PM         

But

Every relationship is different. Relationships change and evolve. Some don't make it. Others last a long time.
Expectations come and go. What you consider good today may be the worst thing tomorrow.
It's not easy to be a 100% honest sometimes. If people were able to talk about their relationships honestly and love, understand and support each other, then all the power to them.

But

People are often petty. Imperfect. Broken.
Dishonest. Hurt.

Yes, love,the pure, higher love looks over infidelity.
Infidelity doesn't exist in love.

How many of us are capable of love like that?

posted April 22, 2010 06:44 PM         

i love my husband like that. but i don't have a crystal ball that we will be lucky enough like that, it would be awesome though.

posted April 22, 2010 06:51 PM         

I mean, I have, and it gets very messy.

Because people are people and we want what we want, and we want ALL of it.

You have to account for all the variables in this equation, which is virtually impossible due to the complexity of human nature.

When my husband and I had the open relationship thing going, he told the women up front that he was married, and planned on staying that way. So, that should of been enough said right there, but it wasn't.

There were stalkers, and obsessive phone-hanger-uppers, and all kinds of ridiculous crap that disturbs the flow of daily living, and all because we were bored and should of gotten a divorce, or never gotten married in the first place.

posted April 22, 2010 07:10 PM         

Why would I subject myself to further pain by trying to be all seemingly evolved and perfect by acting like I embrace something which I know doesnt feel right for me?

That would be inauthentic.

Yin, you said, "..Often petty. Imperfect. Broken. Dishonest. Hurt."
Except for the dishonesty part - I am honestly just imperfect and embrace that

"Yes, love,the pure, higher love looks over infidelity.
Infidelity doesn't exist in love."

Sorry, I do not agree. That's like very idealistic. You yourself just said that certain statements seem idealistic and pretty, and yet you say that and to me it seems completely idealistic and pretty. Seriously? If someone is cheating left, right, and center on you, and you choose to stay with them and your conscience is clear with that decision, then more power to you.
But saying that makes a person's love more pure somehow is just...well, that's an assumption. Maybe the person stays because they have a bad self-esteem.

And it's also possible that the person cheating is a dickhead and you're just waxing poetic and philosophizing instead of accepting that the person is a dickhead and your bad self-esteem is enabling you to wax poetic about your pain. I mean it's possible, right?

posted April 22, 2010 07:20 PM         

You cannot cheat love. You either love or you don't.
Please realize that I am talking about love and not a "relationship".

I personally have not stayed in a relationship where somebody cheats on me physically or emotionally.
But I've seen it happen.

posted April 22, 2010 07:30 PM         

There is to me.

If my guy fell in love with someone else - obviously that would be hurtful.. but I do not even see that as a possibility. If I did - I wouldn't be with him. Relationships DO change in time.. but when they change to the point where they are more like a friendship rather than love -- that's the time I feel like walking out the door. That would be a point when I could imagine either of us falling in love with someone else -- and for that reason -- it wouldn't feel like a "romantic" relationship for me anymore.

But sex is just a physical contact from my perspective. If you do not have feelings for the person you are having sex with - they may as well be a blow-up doll or a vibrator. I guess that is harsh of me to say. But that's honestly what I think.

Emotional cheating makes me feel betrayed. Sex-only does not.

But MVM - I agree with you about "cheating" left right and center - That is *insane*.
I would see that as a sex-addiction. I am not talking about particulars.. like the extreme of the man who is addicted to sex and cheats habitually every day of the week.

I am taking about a "normal" situation - when you've been with someone for a long while.. and someone else they are attracted to comes along and it so happens that they have sex.

That wouldn't bother me in and of itself. Unless it became a relationship behind my back -- rather than a very brief "thing" or a one night stand... Because then there would be feelings involved.

posted April 22, 2010 07:38 PM         

I talked to a bf I had once about an open relationship. He was talking about someone flirting with him on messenger who was talking about wanting to...well..play.
I told him that as long as that's all it was, that I was okay with it. He reacted in total shock saying he wouldn't do that to me. I ended up telling him "no, really.. I'm okay with it".. but he wasn't.

So what it comes down to is communication. Communication is key in ANY relationship. Next is probably honesty. It's hard as hell to be completely honest with someone about your feelings, but important if you want it work out...for whatever outcome you're looking for.

posted April 22, 2010 07:39 PM         

I'm just asking questions,
like you.

I guess every question
presupposes a starting point;
an unspoken assumption.

I make a lot of assumptions,
but I almost always end on a question.

I don't know if there is an answer
that makes everything run smoothly.
I don't see it.

It's nice to say,
be honest, compromise, etc.,
but the reality is heartbreak,
no matter how you look at it.

Sometimes the heart breaks
and thats the end of the relationship,
and sometimes the heart breaks just so
it can grow bigger and more accomodating.

You can't help who you fall in love with.

And 99.9% of the women out there
are not going to give you the time of day
if you tell them upfront that you have
polygamy in your blood.

So where does that leave you?

Just find someone to fall in love with
who feels the same way you do?

Yeah, easy for them to say.

Do you know how hard it is
just to find someone to love?

Good luck finding that much.

No matter how you turn, sometimes,
somebody is going to get hurt.

That's just the way it is.

"Compromise is when nobody gets what they want."
I don't know who said that, but I like it.

Honesty. Bah-humbug!

I'm still looking for an honest man.

I found one once, but he was an ashhole.

posted April 22, 2010 07:42 PM         

:edit: Gypsee -- I just saw you mention the same thing. Do you have Cancer Moon or something else in Cancer?:edit:

I understand you completely. I mean I understand why you'd see them as intertwined.. but I have never felt this way myself. I've always separated.

I only see love and sex as intertwined when they *both* happen with the same person.

I am in love now, probably for the first time. We have not had sex yet but I know it will be extremely different when we do simply because there is a LOT of feeling. There is a lot of intensity and affection between us.

But in past situations where I was not all that "in love".. maybe more "in like" -- it was just sex for me and I still enjoyed it. But it was very physical. I didn't feel a love connection. So I can't see the two as intertwined.

_____________

Gypsee,

quote:

---

Well, if the sex is good, "brief" things often turn into extended things, and then we have a problem Houston.

Logic tells me this: If I was in close proximity to another (and most of these things start as proximity infatuations, no?) and I had a build up of desire for that person, so then I decided to have sex with them, and it was awesome, I would want to do it again, and again, and again, and then my primary relationship would then become secondary.

---

Ah! Ok.. I get what you are saying.

BUT for me the situation you described would be one where the two people keep in "touch" after the fact. I would not be OK with that.
There is a difference between say a very brief fling with someone you do not see again... or a one night stand as I was saying.. AND... having sex with say -- your secretary who works with you and who you see every day.. so *evidently* a relationship would develop.

Also - if something began as an infatuation which developed.. I would tend to see that as "emotional" from the very beginning. Something purely "physical" from my perspective would be like -- say he is on a business trip and bumps into someone in a bar and they have sex that night.

That would be a one night stand. For example.

The "infatuation" phase you talked about and the build up - being around them -- liking them -- etc.. and eventually having sex.. That is "cute".. That is "sweet". That is "emotional".

That is the way a "relationship" can begin from my perspective.

posted April 22, 2010 07:44 PM         

quote:

---

He reacted in total shock saying he wouldn't do that to me. I ended up telling him "no, really.. I'm okay with it".. but he wasn't.

---

posted April 22, 2010 07:58 PM         

But it's not a "rule" - Gypsee's ex is also Cappy and he does cheat.

quote:

---

I'm a Cancer moon btw... hate that about me...lol

---

Oh no -- Cancer Moon is the best because the Moon is dignified in Cancer - so the fact that you are in touch with your emotions and you feel *deeply* is an awesome thing.

posted April 22, 2010 08:09 PM         

Wink, I know a couple like that too. Actually two couples. One couple lives a totally swinger lifestyle with the clubs and all that. They have a huge mass of joint children, and are incredibly happy, (he is cancer, she is sag/cap cusp) anyway, the rule is they can have sex with whoever they want, but only if the other one is present.
*shrugs* Whatever works for them, is fine by me. They are an adorable couple, but just for facts sake, I should add, that BOTH of them have hit on me, separately, and implied that it would be a *secret* so much for that. lol.

The other couple, actually the girl is one of my good friends, we used to work together. They have an *open* relationship. For his birthday one year, she "got him a 20 year old," those were her words. She said she watched, joined in, then left them to their business.
IDK if he ever saw her again, I doubt it though, and maybe, Vapor, something like that I could tolerate, but the suspicious side of me would always wonder if he is calling her again, or meeting her when he isn't home.
I know that is a flaw of my own, I claim it.
And, my friend, the wife, has had a secret boyfriend for the 4 years I've known her. Nobody has ever met him, but me.

posted April 22, 2010 09:09 PM         

Neither should love and conversation.

(If you don't love the person,
don't even talk to them!)

Or love and anything, for that matter.

(If you don't love, don't do anything!)