posted October 13, 2010 10:21 AM         

Hi Valus.

posted October 13, 2010 10:22 AM         

This woman trusted the psychiatric institution,
and consequently lost years going through the system,
exacerbating her daughter's condition.

posted October 13, 2010 10:26 AM         

It's not really something you can
support or not support.

It just is.

You either understand it,
or fail to understand.

posted October 13, 2010 11:24 AM         

One thing my husband and I do voluntarily;
is to counsel suicidal EMO teens and young adults.
The overriding theme in the vast majority of these young folks contemplating suicide is oddly not, or simply not an abusive environment, nor low self esteem.
Yes those factor in; but get this;
SLEEP DEPRIVATION
Yes, gross lack of sleep!
They stay awake for 3 days or more in a row, punctuated by usually a 2 to 4 hour sleep period, only to then go without sleep repeating the cycle.
They often indulge in drinking or getting stoned and eating no doze caffeine pills like candy.

Association between short sleep and suicidal ideation and suicide attempt among adults in the general population.

Is Sleep Deprivation Putting Your Teen at Risk for Depression & Thoughts of Suicide?

Another factor seems to be improper nutrition, many, guys oddly, more than girls; being anorexic, bulemic, or both.
These behaviors/things;
radically screw with normal brain chemistry and in essence these young folks are inducing via their habits, a form of mental psychosis, which can bring on all kinds of depressions, and even seeing suicide as "romantic", leading to suicidal ideation.
My husband's recent suicidal time was caused mainly by the seizure med he was on.
He was literally not in his right mind.
He is not a selfish person, how can he be, I mean he has cared for me for 13 years, even when I am bed bound from my disabilities. He gives unselfishly to others constantly.
So when he flipped out just a few days after beginning a higher dose of a drug which had
this clearly printed on the bottle:

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Call your doctor immediately if you have mental/mood changes like confusion, new worsening feelings of sadness/fear,
thoughts of suicide, or unusual behavior

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I shall try to write more later.
PS. Randall, I like the bit about
CARCINOGEN=NO CANCER
And thank you for understanding the situation concerning my ex-mother-in-law.

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Oh, and LEXX, no, in your example, it is an exception, of which I am sure there are others similar. But barring such mental incapacity, I stand by my opinion. Irrationality is no excuse. Most people make irrational decisions their entire lives.

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posted October 13, 2010 02:09 PM         

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Dying is easy. Sticking it out and learning through the pain to become a better person isn't.

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posted October 14, 2010 11:14 AM         

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OMG!
WTF is it with hospitals???????
A similar thing happened with a dear friend.
She was dying in a hospice of cancer.
She too could not safely lay in certain positions, one being flat on her back, due to breathing problems.
Well when we were called back when she died, the condition of her body was absolutely horrible!
It was clear that they abused her by both laying her flat on her back...no pillow even, in her weakened condition she could not turn herself.
She was in stiff rigor mortis when we arrived, and her body arched about 10 inches off the bed in a frozen agony spasm, and her tongue was out real far and hands frozen in horrible clenched fists, and her face frozen in a silent scream of sheer terror!
It was very clear that she was left alone and suffered horribly and that upon her death no one even bothered to arrange her body and prop her mouth shut or close her eyes before rigor mortis occurred.
The b!tch on duty said our friend was yelling for water too often and was being unreasonable. Our friend was a 80 pound 91 year old woman not senile in the least!
When we were in earlier before she died, the nurses changed her sheets and were rolling her about very roughly, like a piece of meat, and the poor dear lady had only a top on to boot and was crying in racking body shaking tears to "please cover me, please please cover me"
but the 3 low life over paid hospice nurses just laughed at her and made jokes like..
"what do you have to hide grandma?"
Since these so called hospice nurses of compassion for the dying treated her so cruelly whilst we were there...god only knows what horrors and terrors they subjected her too after we left.:-(
Get this...
I BELIEVE THEY MAY HAVE KILLED HER!
WHY?
Because the clock on the wall said 12:15AM.
The clock was not working.
The hands were set several hours before her death at the EXACT TIME SHE DIED!
Get this.....
When we were waiting for her son to arrive after she died, I took the clock down, and yep...NO BATTERY IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LIKE IT WAS SET TO REMIND THEM TO KILL HER AT 12:15AM,!
WORSE...IT WAS RESET TO A NEW TIME OF 5PM OR SO.....
SO WHO WERE THEY GOING TO KILL AT 5:30 THE NEXT DAY????????
OK...must take break awhile.
I am so fraking disgusted at such creeps.
edit to add:
we tried our best to cover her up and arrange her body in such a way to minimize the horrible way it was when we first got there after her torturous death...but could not get her tongue in or close her mouth. We were able to at least close her eyes.
If her son had seen what we had, he would have gone insane.
Sorry for writing so graphically but folks need to know that all hospital staff and hospice staff are not competent nor good caring folks but sadistic unfeeling monsters.

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posted October 14, 2010 11:47 AM         

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Isn't it strange that we help our pets go peacefully when their quality of life is over, but do not allow that same kindness for our fellow humans?

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Indeed.

Lao Tzu writes: "Wise is the man who knows when to let go." Many people speak often of attachment as the root of suffering and spiritual degeneration, but how does that tally with their insistence that one must remain attached to earthly existence at all costs? There is a bias in our culture, in favor of earthly existence, which is rather mind-boggling in light of how much faith we claim to have in the hereafter. People who insist that the termination of earthly life is synonymous with self-destruction clearly betray their own lack of faith in the spiritual realms, and in the immortality of the soul. A piece I wrote not long ago touches on this and similar points:

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...I would go so far as to suggest that many who have died in this way have done so, at least partly, on account of having been far in advance of their times. It was because of this discrepancy that no fitting place or use could be found for them. They are like computers in a world without outlets; what dark and empty boxes they must seem to us, who have yet to learn their use. Can we fault them for silencing their voices, which speak only to posterity, yet cannot hope to be recorded for posterity's sake?

The suicide, so-called, is a kind of adventurer who, dissatisfied with his homeland, sets out upon a darkened sea for ports unknown. Has it ever been said of the explorer, that he is foolish for having ventured to encounter a land of which he has no inkling? That only a reckless creature would seek fortune in a land where fortune is neither glimpsed nor promised? Or prefer, to the devil he knows, a god whom he does not? If this is the common position, it must stem from the common cowardice, and not from any semblance of prudence or modesty in the face of death.

How our people wail and protest, and clamor to make him tarry; this man whose sights traverse the horizon. Some even conclude that he is mad, or worse, -- a criminal of unparalleled guilt, for having (so it seems to them) transgressed the very will of the gods, who set him here for reasons of their own design. What god, then, sets him free?

What star ignites Promethean fire in his belly? What planet calls out to him from the beyond? If you say that it is only himself -- what self, then, calls out to him from the grave? What part of himself, divided by a veil, plots to reunite him with the rest? What angel, daemon, or demigod, half-buried in the soul, seeks its sudden resurrection in the dawning light of death?

With haste, we judge him worthy of excommunication. We would cast him out, who would cast himself off from our shore. It is not enough that he has died by his own hand. We must call him "coward". Yet, consider for a moment what he has left. Not the universe, though it may seem so to us, who believe that life on earth is synonymous with existence in the universe. Really, he has only departed our tiny culture; our cult of life; that is, earthly life.

And who knows that he might not, by virtue of this act, discover himself a welcome guest in a culture more elevated -- more alive, even -- than our own? Perhaps, when death at last has come for us, we shall discover such a world, and him in it, already settled and secure. And on that day we may even curse ourselves for having waited, and having denied ourselves for so long a pleasure beyond our wildest terrestrial imaginings.

These speculations are meant only to give us pause, before we rush to condemn the suicidal act. For, though the world is quick to call him "weak", I cannot help wondering if this self-slaughtered man is a kind of martyred hero, whose sensibilities, it may be, far exceed the coarse refinements of our world. And we, who perhaps feel the truth of it like a sting in our guts, may have fallen into the likely trap of slandering the one who, by his death, effectively judges us. Might it not be that the whole of life is a kind of test, the passing of which depends upon the choice to die; and thereby prove that we are indeed too civil for this world?

Or, if it be true that such an act is the coinage of madness, might it not be equally true that, in a world gone mad, the sanest man is the maddest? The one who understands the most, must perceive the greatest amount of misunderstanding; for if his vision extends as far as Utopia, he must also be confronted, at every turn, by the backwardness of his age, and the foolishness of his contemporaries. Such a state of affairs might easily trigger madness in a sane man.

Is it so unthinkable, that suicide, in certain instances, might signify nobility of soul? Who, being born for higher things, would not feel constrained by the lowly condition here presented? And who, born for the highest, could hope to endure this place? Yet we judge that he is full of pride, if he cannot suit himself to our humble estate. Are we not like the worm who tells the eagle to renounce his wings, as the symbols of his pride, and to squirm upon the earth, so as to prove his humility?

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posted October 14, 2010 12:09 PM         

I must say,

It's refreshing to see philosophical discussions
taking place once again in Lindaland Central 2.0

Three threads on suicide. How cool is that?!

I guess it's permitted now,
as long as I'm not the one starting the threads.

posted October 14, 2010 12:21 PM         

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Three threads on suicide. How cool is that?!

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posted October 14, 2010 12:29 PM         

I'm referring to this part of the forum,
in case that was unclear to you.

And I'm sorry you disagree with my evaluation.
I really can't help it. I'm a true Scorpio.

Please, don't feel you should respond
to my earlier post on my account.

Take Care,
V.

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posted October 14, 2010 12:47 PM         

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LEXX,

I'm referring to this part of the forum,
in case that was unclear to you.

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And I'm sorry you disagree with my evaluation.
I really can't help it. I'm a true Scorpio.

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Please, don't feel you should respond
to my earlier post on my account.

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You're naturally free to share,
but, to be blunt, I'm not the least bit
interested in your perspective, LEXX.

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I have enough trouble considering my own, lol,
and those of the people with whom I'm karmically linked.

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You understand.

Take Care,
V.

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