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Author Topic:   Political Kabuki Theater
AcousticGod
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Posts: 1438
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 15, 2009 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Barack Hussein O'Bomber is a liar from the top hair on his head to the soles of his feet.

Takes one to know one, I guess.

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katatonic
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posted September 15, 2009 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
actually the approval rating went UP after his address to congress. it has slipped again but then the way rasmussen calculate is shown here - they subtract the lowest % from the highest % in the STRONGLY approve or STRONGLY disapprove sections of their poll...which means in this case that 28% of the population are not accounted for.

that is IF the population were properly represented in the first place, which is way dubious, maestro! not one of these polls has ever asked me, for instance, so i dare them to prove i am part of one of their percentages.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 34% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -4. (see trends).

Support for the President’s health care proposal has been increasing daily over the past week. However, today’s tracking results show support falling for the first time since the speech. Forty-five percent (45%) now favor passage of the Congressional health care reform plan, a figure that’s up just a single point since the speech. Fifty-two percent (52%) are now opposed. Those figures include 23% who Strongly Favor the plan and 41% who are Strongly Opposed.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 50% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Yesterday, the President’s numbers reached a two-month high at 52%. Today’s overall approval is the same as it was just before the President’s speech last week. Fifty percent (50%) now disapprove.

Fifty-six percent (56%) believe that former President George W. Bush is primarily to blame for the nation’s economic woes. Thirty-seven percent (37%) blame Obama.

It’s been a year since the collapse of Lehman Brothers but consumer and investor confidence remain below year-ago levels."

and if you notice 56% by their reckoning think BUSH was responsible for this mess in the first place, while 37% think obama did it...even though obama wasn't in office when this farce started it, and there is no way of knowing if anyone else could have done better.

so MORE out of context rubbish from florida. i wonder if madeira beach's rubbish collection is visible from outer space? or do you just chuck stuff in the gulf?

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katatonic
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posted September 15, 2009 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
"It is important to remember that the Rasmussen Reports job approval ratings are based upon a sample of likely voters. Some other firms base their approval ratings on samples of all adults. President Obama's numbers are always several points higher in a poll of adults rather than likely voters. That's because some of the President's most enthusiastic supporters, such as young adults, are less likely to turn out to vote."

seeing as a lot of "unlikely" voters turned out last november this is a little disingenuous isn't it? nice of them to admit that broader polls tend to come out in obama's favour, isn't it?

it's also interesting that they still can't make the numbers add up to 100% (45 + 52=97). so at least 3% unspoken for, and since they admit that YESTERDAY the numbers were different, we can probably predict that TOMORROW they will be different again.

these minutiae mostly CLOUD THE ISSUE rather than clarifying it. careful, jwhop, the virgo weakness is to miss the forest for counting the trees!

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 841
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 15, 2009 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Takes one to know one, I guess...acoustic

Wow acoustic, how insightful.

Let me write that down.

Oh wait, I think I heard that one on the playground when I was about 5 years old.

You been hanging around the playgrounds acoustic?

O'Bomber is the worst liar ever to hold the office of President of the United States.

O'Bomber has lied about virtually everything...including the big fat lies he told to get himself elected.

Since then, it's been lie after lie, after lie, after lie coming off O'Bomber's teleprompter.

Oh, and katatonic; we're not talking about O'Bomber's approval index. He's still below 50% job approval. Last time I looked, that's the lowest job approval rating at this point in a presidency since that statistic started being kept.

It's O'BomberCare which is sucking wind.

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 15, 2009 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
I've witnessed the undoing of your truth a LOT more times than Obama. In fact, your credibility is so poor that the more emphatic you get, the greater the certainty the opposing perspective is right.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 15, 2009 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
.

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katatonic
Knowflake

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posted September 15, 2009 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
Overall, 50% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance - rasmussen. your choice of poll. as i said, if they asked a broader public even THEY ADMIT it would be higher. and all you have to do to bring the obama voters out in droves is put sarah the impaler on the next ticket! woohoo!!

polls, schmolls.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 841
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 15, 2009 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Hahaha, you've witnessed nothing of the kind acoustic.

It's your fairy tales which always turn to crap in your hands.

O'Bomber and the clowns he's surrounded himself with know O'Bomber is in real trouble.

He got a tiny bump in the polls after making a speech to Congress with nationwide broadcast coverage. Now, his numbers are on the way down again.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 841
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 16, 2009 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Liberal lies about health care: Joe Wilson edition!
Posted: September 16, 2009
6:00 pm Eastern

Ann Coulter

I'm trying to get to the next installment of my Pulitzer Prize-deserving series on liberal lies about national health care, but apparently liberals have decided to torture us by neurotically fixating on one lie.

After President Barack Obama gave a speech to a joint session of Congress last week passionately defending his national health-care plan, the Democrats were agog at the brilliance of the speech. Nancy Pelosi was so thrilled, her expression almost changed.

But as Obama ticked off one demonstrably false claim after another – eliciting 37 standing ovations from the Democrats in the audience – America's greatest living statesman, Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., yelled out, "You lie!" in response to Obama's claim that the bill will not cover illegal aliens.

There are a number of theories about why America's greatest living statesman shouted "You lie!" at that juncture, but mine is that Wilson said it because Obama told a big, fat, stinking lie.

Every single American knows it's a lie. But liberals take pleasure in repeating it – and then condescendingly accusing anyone who doesn't accept their lie of being a toothless, illiterate racist.

Our politicians, media and courts have done everything they can to encourage illegal immigration, including obstinately refusing to enforce the border. While illegals streaming across the border generally aren't prosecuted, U.S. border patrol agents who naively try to guard the border often are.

Wise (and pregnant) Latinas dash across the border just in time to give birth at American hospitals – medical services paid for by U.S. taxpayers – gaining instant citizenship for their children, thereby entitling them to the entire Chinese menu of American welfare programs.

In 2004, 42.6 percent of all babies born at taxpayer expense in California were born to illegal aliens, according to a state report on Medi-Cal-funded deliveries. In hospitals close to the Mexican border, the figure is closer to 80 percent. Remember: This is before health care becomes "free" to every U.S. resident.

Hospitals across the country are going bankrupt because the federal government forces them to provide free services to illegals. This situation appears to have angered some segment of the population, in particular, American citizens who pay taxes to support the hospitals, but then are forced to spend hours writhing in pain in hospital waiting rooms.

With Americans in a boiling cauldron of rage about the government's impotent response to the tsunami of illegal immigrants, last year, both political parties ran candidates for president who favor amnesty for illegal immigrants.

And now Democrats have the audacity to tell us to our faces that national health care won't cover illegals. Not only that, but they tell us we must not be able to read if we think it does.

The crystalline example of this sneering liberal pomposity came from MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Monday night:

Reading the House health-care bill would show you that (the bill does not cover illegal aliens). But you know, sometimes reading is hard. Fortunately, in the case of the health-reform bill, there is a way to get all of the information that's in it without any of that pesky reading.
It's called HearTheBill.org. Volunteer voiceover actors have donated their time to read all 1,017 pages of the house health-care reform bill, H.R. 3200, the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009.

So if you don't want to tire out your eyes, you could just listen to the thing that disproves (Rep. Wilson).

Maddow then played an audio clip of Section 246 from the bill. This section, which liberals keep brandishing like a DNA-stained dress, states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."**Gee, I think I already pointed that out. Sect 246 is talking about credits...or tax credits for purchasing health care insurance. Yet, some here keep repeating the nonsense like a broken record.**

In other words, illegal aliens are excluded from precisely one section of the thousand-page, goodie-laden health-care bill: Section 246, which distributes taxpayer-funded "affordability credits" to people who can't afford to pay for their own health care.

Even this minor restriction on taxpayer largesse to illegals will immediately be overturned by the courts. But the point is: Except for vouchers, the bill does not even pretend to exclude illegals from any part of national health care – including the taxpayer-funded health insurance plan.

Moreover, liberals won't have to wait for some court to find that the words "nothing in this subtitle shall allow" means "this bill allows," because the bill contains no mechanism to ensure that the health-care vouchers aren't going to illegal aliens. Nor does the bill prohibit the states from providing taxpayer-funded health care vouchers to illegals.

Democrats keep voting down Republican amendments that would insert these restrictions – just before dashing to a TV studio to denounce anyone who says the health-care bill covers illegal aliens.

It's as if we have a relative who shows up at every holiday gathering, gets bombed and totals the family car. At the 18th Christmas celebration, he's not only demanding a drink, but also calling us liars for saying he's already totaled 17 family cars. Gimme a gin and tonic and the car keys, you lying racist!

I think that's why America's greatest living statesman erupted with rage when Obama retailed this particular lie during his speech on health care.

It's bad enough to be lied to, but to be lied to by people who accuse us of not being able to read when the problem is that we can read – and also can remember what happened at the last 17 family Christmases – is more than even Mother Teresa could bear without a quick heckle.
http://www.anncoulter.com/

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 17, 2009 01:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
The problem with Ann Coulter's argument is that no where in the bill does it specify that illegal immigrants WILL be eligible for any of the benefits described within it. It's an American bill for American citizens. What part of that construes an implication that illegal immigrants will have access to it?

How can a term like "individual" in an American bill for American citizens be construed to mean "illegal alien." Are Republicans impractical enough to believe there won't be any gatekeeping methodology? Is there a belief that under the new system anyone will be able to book a free doctor's appointment, and there won't be so much as a verification of identity? Is that practical? When they do their record keeping, how exactly are they going to do that? No names? Do you think they would take names, but not be concerned with citizenship and eligibility?

Here's the bill: http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

Look through it (use the binoculars to search). I have. Nothing has given me the impression that individuals will determine their own eligibility and therefore be able to get in despite being in the country illegally. I find it bizarre the notion that an American bill should have to specify that any benefits contained therein would not be available for non-Americans. That should logically be a given.

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AcousticGod
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posted September 18, 2009 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Bump (so that people may inspect the bill for themselves)

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 841
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 18, 2009 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Is this another one of your arguments similar to your argument that since Hitler hasn't personally whispered in your ear..."I'm a Socialist"...that it must not be true?

Since illegal aliens were not specifically excluded from coverage...they in fact were covered by the O'BomberCare health insurance bill(s).

The section you kept quoting only dealt with "CREDITS" to offset the cost of insurance. That would be section 246 of HR 3200.

So, anyone who wants to know the truth can go look up section 246 of HR 3200 and see it for themselves.

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 18, 2009 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Since illegal aliens were not specifically excluded from coverage...they in fact were covered by the O'BomberCare health insurance bill(s).

That flies in the face of logic. I mean, that is the stupidest thing a person could possibly infer. Am I to think that any other nation's laws and benefits include me, because they don't specifically exclude Americans? That's utter nonsense. It's not rational on any level.

quote:
So, anyone who wants to know the truth can go look up section 246 of HR 3200 and see it for themselves.

Yes, and they can see every other subsection as well...And if they were ambitious, they could show where they get the idea that the bill would cover illegal aliens. It won't be happening, though, because it's not in there.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 18, 2009 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
No, it doesn't fly in the face of logic acoustic.

Those who are not specifically excluded ARE included. The only place illegal aliens are specifically excluded in HR 3200 is in section 246 and that's for receiving rebates or credits for purchasing O'BomberCare health insurance.

That's the reason the Senate Finance committee specifically excluded illegal aliens...AFTER the issue blew up in O'Bomber's face.

That's the reason the White House issued a statement confirming their agreement with the Senate Finance Committee's exclusion of illegal aliens...AFTER the illegal alien issue blew up in O'Bomber's face.

O'Bomber has been lying through his teeth about this issue and others regarding O'BomberCare.

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AcousticGod
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posted September 18, 2009 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
It does! How can you not see or understand that? Across the board in any similar situation you can imagine, those that aren't specifically given benefit from some rule or procedure are automatically excluded. For instance, you pay your HOA dues, and you expect certain benefits for doing that. Because the CC&Rs don't exclude other HOAs do you really think your money is going to be diverted to other HOAs that are separate from yours? No. That would be ridiculous. Just because something doesn't include an exclusion doesn't mean the excluded are entitled.

quote:
That's the reason the Senate Finance committee specifically excluded illegal aliens...AFTER the issue blew up in O'Bomber's face.

Which is merely a clarification of what was already true. What part of that don't you get? Quote the bill in explaining why you thought illegals were ever covered. It's not in there.

quote:
O'Bomber has been lying through his teeth about this issue and others regarding O'BomberCare.

First of all, Obama wasn't lying. Ann Coulter's "greatest living statesman" lied. Second of all, calling it ObamaCare when he's left it largely up to Congress to draft is a bit ridiculous. Obama's long expressed a willingness to compromise on what kind of healthcare reform comes about. He's shown a lot more flexibility than Democrats in Congress.

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katatonic
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posted September 18, 2009 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
OR republicans, for sure. who act like a bunch of old mining mules with their blinkers on and a carrot hanging in front of their noses. or should i say elephants stampeding because they think they've seen a mouse?

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cpn_edgar_winner
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From: Toledo, OH
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posted September 18, 2009 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpn_edgar_winner     Edit/Delete Message
anne coulter? pshaw.

how's that for a relevant reply.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 21, 2009 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the 14th Amendment acoustic....the Amendment which calls for EQUAL PROTECTION under the laws of the United States.

If certain parties are not specifically excluded by legislative language THEN acoustic....the courts will interpret that as an intent to cover all who are not specifically excluded.

Illegal aliens are or were covered by O'Bomber's wretched O'BomberCare Socialist health insurance bill...until the US Senate specifically excluded coverage for illegal aliens.

The House demoscats voted down at least 2 different Amendments to HR 3200 to specifically exclude coverage to illegal aliens.

This isn't rocket science acoustic. SO...why can't you grasp either the law, legislative intent or the language of these simple facts?

Perhaps it doesn't matter in this case that you're a legal incompetent acoustic.

It appears O'BomberCare is going down the tubes as more and more Americans become aware of all the bullshiiit demoscats have stuffed into HR 3200 and the bill released by the Senate Finance Committee.

Worst pieces of bullshiiit Socialist legislative meddling into every facet of American's lives ever introduced in Congress.

Pure and simple, O'Bomber and his Socialist buds in Congress have been caught lying to the American public and they've been called on it.

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 21, 2009 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
You're right, it's not rocket science. You don't have a point, and haven't had one since the start. You want to bring up the 14th Amendment as your justification for believing illegal immigrants would be covered by the health care reform bills? Is there any provision in the 14th Amendment that extends Equal Protections to illegals? No, there isn't.

You should have probably consulted a legal expert before putting your foot in your mouth there.

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katatonic
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posted September 21, 2009 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
wasn't it reagan(the Great) who made it illegal to refuse medical care, even to "ILLEGAL ALIENS"? and since most of them don't have the money to pay for it and there is no way of tracking them, don't you pay for that in your taxes right now?

this bill attempts to make it EASIER to refuse them. wake up man...it's getting late!

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AcousticGod
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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 21, 2009 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, though it was only emergency room care.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 21, 2009 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
The Senate Finance Committee believed illegal aliens were covered by HR 3200...and moved to cut them off by specifically excluding them.

O'Bomber believed illegal aliens were covered by HR 3200...and agreed with the Senate Finance Committee they should not be.

Finally, O'Bomber attempted to play what he thought was a trump card suggesting illegal aliens should be made US citizens AND then they would be covered by O'BomberCare.

Do you ever have a serious argument to make acoustic. I've been waiting for a long time...in vain..to see one.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 21, 2009 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
O'Bomber believed illegal aliens were covered by HR 3200...and agreed with the Senate Finance Committee they should not be.

No, he didn't. That's why Joe Wilson called him a liar. Don't you remember?

Jwhop, it's absurd for you to ask me to make a serious argument. Every argument you've attempted on this matter has failed miserably. You can't prove that illegals were included for coverage. You don't grasp that illegals made legal would become tax-paying citizens, and then you tried to propose that a U.S. Amendment would extend rights to aliens. These are all very screwy, oddball arguments completely devoid of merit. If you have a serious argument to make you'd better hop to it. So far you're just wasting people's time.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 841
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 21, 2009 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Such skull density is seldom seen acoustic.

O'Bomber, as I and others have said repeatedly was lying through his teeth when he said illegal aliens were not covered by HR3200.

When the issue blew up in his face, he changed his tune...but not before Wilson called O'Bomber a liar in a joint session of Congress...which he was and remains today.

O'Bomber is a serial liar who lied in that same joint session of Congress when he said he's been seeking a bipartisan solulotion and meeting with Republicans on O'BomberCare.

O'Bomber hasn't met with Republicans on healthcare since April, 2009.

O'Bomber also lied when he said abortion is not covered in HR3200..O'BomberCare.

O'Bomber also lied when he said there is no "Death Panel" under O'BomberCare.
$564,000,0000,0000 cannot be removed from the Medicare budget without causing rationing of care for seniors..and that's exactly what O'Bomber and his own personal Dr Death, Zeke Emanuel have proposed.

The public now knows O'Bomber is a serial liar attempting to implement a Socialist health care system which is not in citizens best interests. In fact, Socialist health care is a danger to American citizens.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 1438
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
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posted September 21, 2009 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
O'Bomber, as I and others have said repeatedly was lying through his teeth when he said illegal aliens were not covered by HR3200.

You keep SAYING that, but you have yet to show even an iota of PROOF.

When the issue blew up, he did not CHANGE anything. He clarified the White House's position. Illegal immigrants were already excluded, which I've proven ad nauseum. He merely voiced support for there being a more overt mechanism for catching illegals attempting to use the system.

quote:
O'Bomber hasn't met with Republicans on healthcare since April, 2009.

I've never seen any proof of this.

quote:
O'Bomber also lied when he said abortion is not covered in HR3200..

You might be right on this one, though it is a distraction from the point.

quote:
O'Bomber also lied when he said there is no "Death Panel" under O'BomberCare.

He most certainly did no such thing. There will be no "death panels." "Death panels" are a figure of the Right's imagination. Always has been.

quote:
$564,000,0000,0000 cannot be removed from the Medicare budget without causing rationing of care for seniors.

Nice number writing there. $564 billion you say. The proposed cuts to Medicare cut the overinflated prices currently being charged. Your figure is wrong, too. We can debate this separately if you like.

____________________________

So now, back to the issue. When are you going to prove that illegals were somehow covered?

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