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Author Topic:   European Migrant Crisis - discussion thread
Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 07, 2016 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Right but as I'm discussing the plight of women being encircled by huge groups of men and gang raped, "Women ought to learn to be stronger" is not what I want to hear.

Sounds like victim-shaming and p*sses me off.

#Italian
#ThrowingSalamiMissiles

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Catalina
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posted February 07, 2016 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not what i said. Nevermind

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Enneline
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posted February 08, 2016 07:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Enneline     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If Catalina means, that i need to fight for my rights, i would agree with her:

- I live in a free country
- I want to go for a walk at midnight without having the fear that someone is going to rape me
- I want to wear mini skirts without being accused of provoking rapes
- I just want to walk without being scared that I end up in a so-called “no go area”

Yeah, this and many more is what I want. It is already like that in Germany and I do not want any changes regarding this

+ all German Muslim women I know and have asked so far do NOT want to live under the laws of Sharia + 50% of German Muslims do not want to live according to Islam

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 08, 2016 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:
Not what i said. Nevermind

quote:
Why in this day and age are women still being treated - and seen - as helpless targets of male aggression? I hardly think this is a Middle Eastern problem so I wonder why anyone is making political hay out of the German situstion.

Single sex quarters are the boarding school solution and probably not practical for several reasons. But in boarding school its not rape but cooperation tgs t is at issue.

I am convinced that the time has come (actually overdue) for women especially to stop seeing ourselves as the defenseless choiceless flowers we - in the West as well - have been taught to be. ***** Posse has arrived 😉


"Why in this day and age are women still being treated - and seen - as helpless targets of male aggression?"

Because sometimes they are.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 08, 2016 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Enneline:
It is already like that in Germany and I do not want any changes regarding this

I would imagine it's already changing. Women taking precautions.

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Enneline
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posted February 08, 2016 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Enneline     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On a serious side note; what really p*sses me off:

- All those East European countries that refuse to take any refugees should be kicked out of the EU. They receive BILLIONS each year but don¡¦t give anything. That is a parasitical attitude (I am NOT talking about the people) in my opinion. Also, it is a crime against humanity to refuse refugees due to their religious belief ƒ¼
- Germans of foreign descent (I am one of them btw) are often like ¡§no, we have already have too many foreigners we need to pay for¡¨. WTF?! What kind of attitude? Devil may care? After me the flood? It was okay for them to migrate to Germany to get a better life but not for those in desperate need?!
- Foreigners from EU countries (the majority comes from Poland, Romania, Balkans,etc.) have the right to receive social services if the fulfill some conditions. We spend 600 millions EURs for them but often they would be reluctant to take refugees and their home countries do down to nothing to help refugees. Again: what kind of f*ck*ng attitude? After me the flood?

I think it is important for you guys who live abroad that not ethnic Germans are racist only. Often many (former) migrants react quite cold-hearted when it comes to refugees. That is my personal experience and it disgusts me. And as already mentioned: I am one of them.

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted February 10, 2016 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I was not thinking of this military scale scenario here are some women who decided to stop being victims. .extricated themselves and took measures. It was interesting to me that when Kurdish women stood up against IS they won..the element of surprise is always with women who don't back down, and some cultures are so rigid that men are at a serious disadvantage fighting ag as inst women.

As to things changing and taking precautions, in extraordinary times both are often necessary. Unfortunately there aren't enough laws or police to ensure total security.

Hopefully disagreement can be distinguished from hatchet wielding
http://en.alalam.ir/news/1787751

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 13, 2016 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With whose help did those women decide to fight back? Who equipped them and trained them?

Gee...

quote:
Co-operation with the CIA

After reconciliation between the two opposing Kurdish factions was sealed by the 1998 Washington Agreement, the US Special Forces deployed CIA agents to Kurdistan, the start of a relationship of co-operation between the Peshmerga and the US, both pitted against Saddam Hussein's Iraqi government. The role of the Peshmerga was key in the eventual toppling of Saddam Hussein.

After his Baathist government was dismantled, US forces continued to work with the Peshmerga, training fighters and holding joint operations throughout the area. When the PUK's Jalal Talabani was elected as the sixth president of Iraq, and the KDP's Massoud Barzani was elected president of Iraqi Kurdistan, Kurdish hopes for self-determination continued to grow.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28738975

One wonders, how would they have fared without that leg-up? Are they really so powerful, in and of themselves?

Or do the overriding socio-political systems keep them oppressed, so that they can only rise with permission and assistance from greater power factions (comprised mostly of men)?

True, women could all start murdering men randomly, in their countries...but that might destroy their souls, and isn't that worse than having their bodies destroyed?

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 13, 2016 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Enneline

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted February 15, 2016 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OGGCB
are you so determined that women be incapable of standing up for themselves? Who cares who trained them?
In my 20s i had a "volatile relationship" with a man who was essentially feminist but one day our argument pushed some button and he took a swing at me. Reflexively my arm went up to block his and he hurt his hand and trotted off to hospital. When he came back - despite his feminist beliefs - he waved the cast they had put on his broken hand and said "look what you did to me!"

A lucky moment you might say; but supremely empowering...and no one was murdered. The element of surprise that I didnt stand still to be hit was part of it but one man learned a new reason not to hit women...not out of deference for their inferior physical abilities but the opposite. As for me no one ever tried anything like that on me again. I suspect that is because i gave off a vibe of confidence but maybe that is just coincidence?

without murdering anyone we can make it very clear that we are not to be messed with..like the lady boxers in my first post. But in what way is selfdefense murder (kurdish women vs is fighters)? And why do you see nothing between being victimized and "going around randomly murdering men"?

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Catalina
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posted February 15, 2016 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@ enneline
witness the antipathy for immigrants in the USA, a country built by immigrants many of whom act exactly as you are describing some Germans, natural born and naturalized ..i am afraid it is one of the traits of lower consciousness shared by humans everywhere

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 16, 2016 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Catalina:
OGGCB
are you so determined that women be incapable of standing up for themselves? Who cares who trained them?

WEIRD

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted February 27, 2016 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Most of this is common sense but comes from the horses' mouth.No matter what measures the authorities may take, fear and the belief they are victims who need protection are women's biggest problem with violence.
http://www.geekfill.com/2015/01/16/officers-ask-men-who-had-sexually-abused-women-to-protect-future-attacks-but-they-didnt-expect-this/

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 28, 2016 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great information.

I was talking about 1,000 men ganging up on women one at a time. And you never acknowledged that, you just kept saying, women can overcome that.

It's like saying Pakistani villagers have a "victim mentality" because they can't stop the drones. You're missing the point.

And domestic violence in certain populations is very high because the women cannot get away, they have nowhere to go. Society won't support them leaving just because they're abused.

quote:
fear and the belief they are victims who need protection are women's biggest problem with violence

No, the biggest problem is that men are typically stronger and more aggressive than women, and control the government and social structure in many places, monopolizing women systematically by force. Random acts of rebellion, fighting back, and finger breaking against oppressors aren't sufficient to end the problem. The problem isn't just physical rape, it is all-out dominion.

It's not just women who've been trapped by a conspiracy of oppressors: African slaves, African-Americans, and all who died in concentration camps were victims, not because they were individually weak, but because they were systematically attacked by a group that had a headstart advantage and kept it.

Blaming women for being physically weaker by nature and temperamentally less inclined towards violence is not the answer. Look closer at the mentality of people who band together to make life miserable for others.

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Catalina
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posted February 29, 2016 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nevermind Faith we are talking at cross purposes once again. There is no point. Nor were there ever a thousand men attacking one woman. I am not unaware of other cultural parameters or of other groups that have been systemically diminished. Maybe one day you will see what i was talking about and maybe you won't. Maybe I am just bloodyminded as you say...Nevermind.

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted February 29, 2016 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Nor were there ever a thousand men attacking one woman.

I guess you got me on a technicality.

If there are a thousand men in a hoard, pulling women in, passing them around, groping everything they want and raping, I guess that would feel to me like I had a thousand men, just on me, even if they were processing other women likewise in the same way.

If you think this doesn't happen to women then you haven't caught up with current events. Or glanced through page 3 of this thread.

Which is why I asked, right from the beginning, "Did you read the thread?"

Which you interpreted as interrogation...actually I was wondering if you were challenging what I had written and quoted previously, or speaking without knowing how it clashed with what I had written previously.

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Catalina
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posted April 16, 2016 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well it seems the Germans agree with you that people should be separated by gender to prevent further such incidents. The title of this article refers to a new, not even passed, law which bans sexually objectifying advertising. While I disagree that it is a thin-end wedge bill conceding to Shari'ia, I do consider it overbearing, and the segregated spaces and banning of pork do look more like fear and submission thsn protective measures.

While a move to desexualize ads is a good thing, I would rather see it come from consuner pressure than legislatures
http://madworldnews.com/western-country-sharia-law/

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venus2tinkerbell
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posted April 16, 2016 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus2tinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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venus2tinkerbell
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posted April 16, 2016 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus2tinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Faith

And hi Catalina and Enneline

And hi Leeloo and Poeny, I appreciate your insights. Thank you.

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Vajra
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posted April 16, 2016 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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venus2tinkerbell
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posted April 17, 2016 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus2tinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^

It was Vajra who made the comment a while back about her and her daughter and her daughter's school, and it was her hope and light that silenced my concerns. Vajra and Peony feel very much the same to me online if I'm having to recall.

Thank you Vajra for sharing what you see happening on the ground.

It's almost impossible to get decent news in the US anymore. I read a couple Latin American publications, Al Jazeera America (which is closing, and our last hope at fair and balanced news reporting since even NPR when set side by side with its Euro correspondents sound ridiculously influenced and uninformed), and I rely on my network of family and friends around the world. Anyway, thank you.

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Vajra
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posted April 17, 2016 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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venus2tinkerbell
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posted April 17, 2016 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus2tinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Vajra
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posted April 18, 2016 07:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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venus2tinkerbell
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posted April 18, 2016 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus2tinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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