posted December 29, 2013 02:58 AM            

quote:

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From my pov on this, monogamy is somewhat unnatural, as we move further away from that as a model the sort of "reasons to stay faithfully boring" sort of..slip away.

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posted December 29, 2013 03:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
I just realised I didn't answer about what I would do in that situation...
Because I so rarely have strong crushes or any crushes really.. if I was in a relationship and met someone else I was genuinely interested in - I would reconsider the whole relationship and I'm 50/50 on whether or not I would break it off.
It really depends on how things were going between me and my SO.

I would not have the reaction of putting distance between me and the other person because I wouldn't even feel slightly guilty.

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What..see I'm crushing on you tho!

It would never work out, we'd be to busy trying out clever each other

As to the topic, emotions in everyone run hot and cold, the nut of the matter is not emotion atm, it is whether or not they are acted upon and why they sprang up in the first place

When a "new' sort of thing pops in, emotions are created, when a long steady difference arises, emotions pop in.

posted December 29, 2013 03:05 AM            

I'm not a saint either...
for 3 years I pretty much romantically cheated on everyone I've sort of dated... and eventually it would just fall apart because I was not reaaally truly feeling it
I suppose I was looking for the "replacement"..
Which is unfair.
I am a proactive person instead of lying in a hole I try to move forward.. Unfortunately my feelings were stoping me from actually moving on.

Interesting my SO and I are parallel on the spectrums of cheaters. lol

Mars sextile Saturn: There is no way I can just hook up with people in the "moment"... So I was pretty much celibate
I blame the emotional cheating on Venus square jupiter..

My S.O has Venus sextile Saturn: Apparently does take relationships seriously, hardly dated around unlike me.
Mars square jupiter.....

posted December 29, 2013 03:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
I agree!

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Ahh, Odette though, I mourn the damnable thing, marriage should be fun and full of trust and love and self assurance and safety.

To see those things fall by the wayside in favor of whatever..

posted December 29, 2013 03:28 PM            

There was a time where I would have pretty much "pssshed" away the idea of monogamy and long lasting relationships since they just seemed far from realistic. Yet here I am years later... Happily married and totally devoted towards my wife and our relationship.

I guess it just goes to show that there are no "absolutes" when it comes to relationships. There is no one perfect way of doing things. So the idea of being "emotionally unfaithful" as a requirement for a strong lasting relationship is just silly.

posted December 29, 2013 03:50 PM            

however, to me those are only fragments and i would like to also have the freedom to experience the whole of a fragment i really like. if a part of someone nurtures me or supplants in the way the whole of someone doesn't i.e. someone i am in a committed thing with i would feel like i was emotionally cheating myself and the partner.

like kerosene, i remain celibate if my emotional self isn't also there. i don't believe i've ever cheated emotionally except in that sense of trying to move on whilst still being bonded to a past rship. even with a partner i didn't love, i couldn't live with the guilt or compartmentalizing that 'emotional cheating' would bring.

posted December 29, 2013 04:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
Wow she does seem like a disgrace...
I think your friend was being a gentleman

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I'm just glad he remained a gentleman. The thought that he "learned from her" and was a totally different person who figured "no means yes" is scary to consider. And all because she was a horny beast but couldn't bring herself to admit it, she had to have her sex but make him take all responsibility for it so she could pretend she was overwhelmed and in this somehow retain her worthless self-respect.

Again, I'm so glad she didn't ruin him with her idiotic ways of having to pretend to be a "proper lady" while hoping men were beasts who'd do what she wanted so desperately to happen. It's sick. And women like that encourage men to be rapists, though the better sort of men reject deranged women like that rather than thinking that's "normal."

posted December 29, 2013 04:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I'm just glad he remained a gentleman. The thought that he "learned from her" and was a totally different person who figured "no means yes" is scary to consider. And all because she was a horny beast but couldn't bring herself to admit it, she had to have her sex but make him take all responsibility for it so she could pretend she was overwhelmed and in this somehow retain her worthless self-respect.

Again, I'm so glad she didn't ruin him with her idiotic ways of having to pretend to be a "proper lady" while hoping men were beasts who'd do what she wanted so desperately to happen. It's sick. And women like that encourage men to be rapists, though the better sort of men reject deranged women like that rather than thinking that's "normal."

In my book the most desperate and shameless nymphomaniac is a hell a lot more preferable, honorable, and respectable than what she was (though I'm sure in her book a woman honest about her desires and acting on them rather than trying to sneakily manipulate men into doing what she wanted was more reprehensible). And just to be clear I'm not actually putting down nymphomaniacs as long as they're honest, it's her deceit and what her deceit encourages that makes her so vile to me. And the very thought she said someone was not a "real man" for not raping her...

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I have to speak on this a bit Pixie Jane, from a male pov it's sort of a confusing thing.

Here is why, and I'll be blunt, no woman wants to be considered a **** , yet at times they want to have sex with the target of their affections of the moment

And that is one of those things that simply cannot be reduced to words, it's more of a feel situation.

And there are a million permutations of things being a feeling over a dry, clear, statement

I think this very situation is one of the things that make women, some women, have fear about being around men and just being friendly..the warning beacon is "if I'm to nice/friendly, they will take it the wrong way and I don't want that"

A crude example, there is the hug and kiss goodnight, then there is the hug and KISS goodnight with a feeling behind it and a soft conversation.

To me a man who cannot tell the difference in the two is probably the beast one describes.

This subject is so delicate that it's bit like trying to decipher what does a smile mean?

posted December 29, 2013 06:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I'm just glad he remained a gentleman. The thought that he "learned from her" and was a totally different person who figured "no means yes" is scary to consider. And all because she was a horny beast but couldn't bring herself to admit it, she had to have her sex but make him take all responsibility for it so she could pretend she was overwhelmed and in this somehow retain her worthless self-respect.

Again, I'm so glad she didn't ruin him with her idiotic ways of having to pretend to be a "proper lady" while hoping men were beasts who'd do what she wanted so desperately to happen. It's sick. And women like that encourage men to be rapists, though the better sort of men reject deranged women like that rather than thinking that's "normal."

In my book the most desperate and shameless nymphomaniac is a hell a lot more preferable, honorable, and respectable than what a deceitful, crassly manipulative woman she was. And just to be clear I'm not actually putting down nymphomaniacs as long as they're honest, it's her deceit and what her deceit encourages that makes her so vile to me. And the very thought she said someone was not a "real man" for not raping her...

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posted December 29, 2013 06:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PixieJane:
[b] I'm just glad he remained a gentleman. The thought that he "learned from her" and was a totally different person who figured "no means yes" is scary to consider. And all because she was a horny beast but couldn't bring herself to admit it, she had to have her sex but make him take all responsibility for it so she could pretend she was overwhelmed and in this somehow retain her worthless self-respect.

Again, I'm so glad she didn't ruin him with her idiotic ways of having to pretend to be a "proper lady" while hoping men were beasts who'd do what she wanted so desperately to happen. It's sick. And women like that encourage men to be rapists, though the better sort of men reject deranged women like that rather than thinking that's "normal."

In my book the most desperate and shameless nymphomaniac is a hell a lot more preferable, honorable, and respectable than what a deceitful, crassly manipulative woman she was. And just to be clear I'm not actually putting down nymphomaniacs as long as they're honest, it's her deceit and what her deceit encourages that makes her so vile to me. And the very thought she said someone was not a "real man" for not raping her...

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Actually AG, it is not that hard to "read a woman's mind", however, it does require...wait for it..listening CLOSELY to what they are saying.

Which most men do not do.

For example if you ask a lady on a date and in response

"I'm so busy, it just seems like I have no time or have to work that night, besides I have nothing to wear, you are nice and everything but I have no time that night"

What does the avg guy hear?

posted December 29, 2013 06:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Actually AG, it is not that hard to "read a woman's mind", however, it does require...wait for it..listening CLOSELY to what they are saying.

Which most men do not do.

For example if you ask a lady on a date and in response

"I'm so busy, it just seems like I have no time or have to work that night, besides I have nothing to wear, you are nice and everything but I have no time that night"

What does the avg guy hear?

"She is not into me, she is to busy"

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posted December 29, 2013 07:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
I hope that makes sense?

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Reading moods is one thing. Stating bluntly you very much value and desire one thing while secretly hoping he'll disrespect you and your values as that's what you want is quite another.

Even Cosmopolitan which champions blatant manipulation of men by women (typically to get him to make the first move) doesn't go so far as to promote blatant lies about what you want and hope he can read your mind and have no respect for you so that he gives you what you secretly want anyway or that you should "say no when you mean yes."

posted December 29, 2013 07:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
And the two times you "caught her" are pretty much hypergamy

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Btw, I meant to say earlier that I have a different understanding of hypergamy than you, which is essentially "trading up" for someone who is better looking, more money, etc. I'd have wondered if you meant polyamory but that doesn't fit either. Cheating doesn't go along with either (and if it were something like hypergamy then she should've dumped me for someone else, not cheated on me while hoping to keep me), though it's possible to cheat in a polyamorous relationship as a monogamous one.

posted December 29, 2013 07:31 PM            

quote:

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no woman wants to be considered a ****

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WoW ^ That's am extremely old-school comment to make.

Most women in my generation could care less.

We're taking sl*t back... just like the "N" word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk

quote:

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What..see I'm crushing on you tho!

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Naw shucks
I have e-crushes on everyone on LL haha You're all very cool people!!

quote:

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Ahh, Odette though, I mourn the damnable thing, marriage should be fun and full of trust and love and self assurance and safety.

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posted December 29, 2013 07:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Padre -

Naw shucks

[/QUOTE}

It's twue it's twue

[QUOTE]I have e-crushes on everyone on LL haha You're all very cool people!!

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Sort of Odette, I say that not b/c I particularly think it, quite the opposite, what the term is meant to do is drill into the sort of female curiosity that to give it up cheaply is to lessen oneself in the eyes of other women.

IE, one will hear about it..sort of..depending on whom it comes up with..it's a bit complex..as are all thing pertaining to sex.

posted December 29, 2013 07:45 PM            

I think you were born in 70? Is that right?

The way people socialise now is very different.
There is still "sl*t shaming" happening - but it is much more looked down upon now.. and most intelligent people would never even say such things in a million years.

posted December 29, 2013 07:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
^ I had a girl lose attraction for me because I actually asked if I could kiss her at the end of a date. Needless to say I was really confused when I never heard from her again after that night. I wouldn't have known the reason why if a mutual friend hadn't let me know.

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Uhm, it's fairly simple of a formula:

Good times/lots of laughs and innuendo=being alone=head tilts maybe 30 degrees and lips get tighter with a sort of smile=she wants you to kiss her

If she is into you she makes some movements, small ones normally, to "let's go inside"

The "can I kiss you" thing is actually what Pixie Jane's underlying point behind the whole "real man" thing.

Guys who do not get it are sort of, uhm, creepy/negatively clueless

posted December 29, 2013 07:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Btw, I meant to say earlier that I have a different understanding of hypergamy than you, which is essentially "trading up" for someone who is better looking, more money, etc. I'd have wondered if you meant polyamory but that doesn't fit either. Cheating doesn't go along with either (and if it were something like hypergamy then she should've dumped me for someone else, not cheated on me while hoping to keep me), though it's possible to cheat in a polyamorous relationship as a monogamous one.

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Two prongs, one is indeed "trading up", ie, "pull the rip cord b/c this sucks" and "oh he or she is so cute/hot/attractive and get lost in the moment" hypergamy

The second part is what happens when emotional cheating happens, it is not that having a secret crush on someone else that is the problem, it is what happens when that mixture hits and easy path w/an excuse.

Basically it boils down to emotional cheating opens the door for someone else to step in..for a moment..b/c they are more sexually attractive at THAT moment.

The dual edged sword is there needs to be a..

posted December 29, 2013 08:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Uhm, it's fairly simple of a formula:

Good times/lots of laughs and innuendo=being alone=head tilts maybe 30 degrees and lips get tighter with a sort of smile=she wants you to kiss her

If she is into you she makes some movements, small ones normally, to "let's go inside"

The "can I kiss you" thing is actually what Pixie Jane's underlying point behind the whole "real man" thing.

Guys who do not get it are sort of, uhm, creepy/negatively clueless

A positively clueless man is one a woman will be a bit more upfront about things and she will take your hand and kiss you then throw her arms around you if you are alone together..ie..they are doing all of the work, a negatively clueless guy is one who they may like..sort of..teetering there

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posted December 29, 2013 08:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Well.. things are changing.. and the whole "to give it up cheaply" was more prevalent in my parents' generation (born in 65) and much more prevalent in my grandparents generation (born 36-44).

I think you were born in 70? Is that right?

The way people socialise now is very different.
There is still "sl*t shaming" happening - but it is much more looked down upon now.. and most intelligent people would never even say such things in a million years.

:edit" ^^ I mean sl*t-shaming things.. e.g. "she gives it up easy - she's a **** ".. You might hear it in a ghetto - but you won't hear it in the circles I hang around.
So I think that's positive change

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Honestly it depends Odette, what I mean by that, what I intend to say, is it is a losing proposition for females.

As man..hell yeah! perhaps women also say "Hell Yeah" thing is, age happens and that sort of interest fades as the newer, younger, model of "she gives it up easy" come unto the battlefield (so to speak)

That and imo, it causes a lot of disrespect/playerism to be more attractive to what formerly would be "nice guys"

For myself, have never cheated, heck have rarely "hooked up" even w/having tons of offers to do so..

I prefer a woman's company and see her laugh and smile and just feel that energy that women possess.

This is why I find "emotional cheating" so dangerous..I've seen where it leads.

True story:

Walking to the store today, my neighborette was drving buy and stopped and I flirted with her, she was talking about Kale prices etc, and smiled, I asked her "how do I know if I get into your car you will molest me"?

She smiled and said you don't know

Meanwhile, this couple was going in on each other, I paid no mind.

Coming back through and I'm enjoying the day and walked by their place and hear:

"God Almighty, you'd **** him!!!"

IE..me, dude had no idea what goes on

posted December 29, 2013 08:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Padre35:
[b] Uhm, it's fairly simple of a formula:

Good times/lots of laughs and innuendo=being alone=head tilts maybe 30 degrees and lips get tighter with a sort of smile=she wants you to kiss her

If she is into you she makes some movements, small ones normally, to "let's go inside"

The "can I kiss you" thing is actually what Pixie Jane's underlying point behind the whole "real man" thing.

Guys who do not get it are sort of, uhm, creepy/negatively clueless

A positively clueless man is one a woman will be a bit more upfront about things and she will take your hand and kiss you then throw her arms around you if you are alone together..ie..they are doing all of the work, a negatively clueless guy is one who they may like..sort of..teetering there

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Nope, if she LIKES you, and you are a bit hesitant, SHE will lead the process.

If she is "kinda sorta" she will expect you to lead the dance to help her make up her mind

To be planer:

She cannot keep her hand off of you=leading process

You ask if you can kiss her=she expects you to lead the process

Woman "pop" kisses you on the cheek=could go either way

Woman tilts head, smiles, and move head towards you= one is in like Flynn, she wants you to kiss her and do other things if you ask

posted December 29, 2013 08:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Nope, if she LIKES you, and you are a bit hesitant, SHE will lead the process.

If she is "kinda sorta" she will expect you to lead the dance to help her make up her mind

To be planer:

She cannot keep her hand off of you=leading process

You ask if you can kiss her=she expects you to lead the process

Woman "pop" kisses you on the cheek=could go either way

Woman tilts head, smiles, and move head towards you= one is in like Flynn, she wants you to kiss her and do other things if you ask

Woman grabs hand, drags you into house=surely even you are not that dense

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posted December 29, 2013 08:27 PM            

It bothers me when people either over-idealise sex or over think about sex or over-talk about sex and generally seem very *fixated*, when to me sex is like eating pizza.

If someone who was a cook started telling me that there was a process to eating a pizza.. that I should start with the crust and work my way in - or God knows what else... my reaction would be: IT'S JUUUST PIZZA!!!
It doesn't matter.