posted November 25, 2014 07:49 PM            

God bless the men and women who risk their lives for the safety of all citizens in America.

Yes!

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posted November 25, 2014 08:44 PM            

quote:

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No one is saying Martin is completely innocent. We are arguing that he didn't need to be killed and the reason for his death traces back to systemic racism. The abrasive way in which you convey your arguments is very off-putting.

How do you justify a black man being killed every 28 hours?

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Way to obfuscate the issue.

We are discussing Brown, not Martin. As far as I am concerned, both Martin and Zimmerman were/are thugs.

Back to the issue. This is 2014. Slavery was over centuries ago. The civil rights march was over half a century ago. The Black folks won that battle. That is over.

This is 2014. Take some personal-damn-responsibility. Folks need to grow up and grow some. There's always school and a proper job. That's the antidote to racism.

Knowledge. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. That's the offset to this.

Bottom line. Stop being a thug.

posted November 25, 2014 09:01 PM            

Just because slavery is no longer legal, does not mean racism does not exist. That is akin to saying because Title IX is in effect, that women have equality to men. And that is obviously not true, Black folks have not won a dam.n thing, and this evident in many areas of life. Sure, there is progress, but not as much as we would like to think. Winning Civil Rights has not changed that much.

School and proper jobs do not prevent racism. Racism occurs in both school and employment settings, not to mention the system makes it very hard for lower income Blacks to be afforded the same opportunities. Watch the Ivory Tower, this will tell you a lot about the educational system. It is not being in school that will solve the problem, it is the need to advocate and disseminate systemic racism to the masses. One does not need a college degree to prevent racism, it is being aware of the problem and advocating for change.

The antidote to racism is knowledge and prevention of it through education, but not the way in which you are advocating. I could list a plethora of college graduate Blacks who were unjustly murdered. Brown didn't kill himself, the legal system did. And this is one of the many reasons African-Americans are so angry (and rightfully so), because people are ignorant enough to blame their race instead the institutions that willingly create and allow for racism.

posted November 25, 2014 09:15 PM            

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Originally posted by ariestaurus:
Well said as usual, Bella!!!!! I'm with you 100%. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Likewise.

DF, it is fine. We're 3 pages in and fight hasn't started yet. I don't agree with some of the viewpoints in here, but I don't take it personally and likewise other people don't either. Everyone so far has just expressed their opinion.

We need to have these conversations, staying silent only perpetuates these issues.

As for your analogy, I somewhat disagree. It raises a good question, but is an imperfect analogy. If Whites were the minority and faced the treatment Blacks do, then we would see protests. It also goes back to pre-Civil Rights. That being said, I don't condone violence and hopefully the officer received justice in some way. Death and injury are two whole different beasts. All good though.

posted November 25, 2014 09:16 PM            

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Brown's actions(based on the scientific evidence) proved that he intended to use deadly force, Wilson did what any Cop, black, white, yellow or purple would have done. This isn't the case to discuss and prove points on racial injustices when there were zero given here. His color wasn't why he was shot and killed, his actions were.

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posted November 25, 2014 09:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
Likewise.

DF, it is fine. We're 3 pages in and fight hasn't started yet. I don't agree with some of the viewpoints in here, but I don't take it personally and likewise other people don't either. Everyone so far has just expressed their opinion.

We need to have these conversations, staying silent only perpetuates these issues.

As for your analogy, I somewhat disagree. It raises a good question, but is an imperfect analogy. If Whites were the minority and faced the treatment Blacks do, then we would see protests. It also goes back to pre-Civil Rights. That being said, I don't condone violence and hopefully the officer received justice in some way. Death and injury are two whole different beasts. All good though.

The circumstances should be compared, they are all an example of systemic racist. All three I cited resulted in young Black men dying. The willingness to promote racism and self-hate is why we are here in first place.

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But are they REALLY "minorities" or are we stuck in a rut by calling them that?

posted November 25, 2014 09:44 PM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
But are they REALLY "minorities" or are we stuck in a rut by calling them that?

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Yes. Minority as defined is the group that is smaller part of a larger group. Crudest definition I could find.

Sociologically
Economically
Educationally
Demographically

What ways do you feel they are not a minority?

As for education I did not say it wasn't important, but rather am arguing that getting a college degree as a Black man does not decrease your chances of getting gunned down by a police officer. I agree with you that more educated people commit less crimes, but that isn't going to change the disproportional amount of black men being gunned down every day. Yes, I am with you that it would be great if we could increase the number of minorities getting a good education, but how does that solve systemic racism?

To be fair, the race interactions I described on page 2 play into the "nothing to lose" mentality during conflict. The cop plays a role too.

posted November 25, 2014 10:27 PM            

DF, it's not about "crying racism" at any opportunity but it's about the fact that we have witnessed several situations where this kind of hostility is specifically targeted at black men. Frisking and probable cause is being used and abused in a way that only serves to worsen the issue BECAUSE it's being significantly directed AT a particular group of people. This phenomena exists. A teenager didn't need to be shot 6 times by the big and mighty POLICE OFFICER. I don't buy that, I'm sorry. He was not armed. The officer could have took him down and restrained him physically with his pinky, if he wanted to. Or how about the black woman who got beaten to the floor because she was jay-walking and police officer only felt like sh*t because she turned out to be a professor? No, she wasn't the piece of crap that he first thought she was.

What about Eric who got choked to death by a police officer just because he kept reiterating that he wasn't selling tobacco on the streets?

Or what about the man who got shot by a police officer because the cop thought he was pulling out a weapon when in fact he was only trying to reach out for his license and registration?

There are so many "what abouts" that I could add to reiterate my point. This kind of brutality is not often seen directed at whites. That's the truth.

It all boils down to subjugation. The demeaning gaze of criminality casted upon the black body.

No. So much of what is being said here needs to be revised. I urge this not to make a statement about my beliefs but to highlight that the real issue at hand is not being thoroughly critiqued.

posted November 25, 2014 10:58 PM            

There are incredible amounts of ignorant black people, it's proven by statistics. Many lower income blacks would rather repeat what their parents(who were and are also ignorant) did because they feel trapped in their lifestyles. Not sure why we're acting as if only educated blacks are being targeted(which I don't believe they are) because that's not the case. It's the ignorant, ghetto people that create problems for themselves by themselves, and should be held accountable for their actions. How can we possibly sit around and act like we haven't seen the belligerent, pants hanging down his ass, can't speak without saying one expletive, black male? We all have seen MANY. Should I even go in depth on the females? They're thugs. Not all of them are this way, but it's the majority of those like that that are thrown in jail or killed because of their own stupidity. I mean have you seen cops? Youtube videos? I'm not racists at all just telling it how I see it. If I offended anyone than I apologize, I'm just trying to be truthful regardless of how much it hurts.

posted November 25, 2014 11:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PisceanDream:
We need a change of attitude towards issues of race and I cannot reiterate enough how much turning a blind eye to this is only going to perpetuate and fuel the issue.

DF, it's not about "crying racism" at any opportunity but it's about the fact that we have witnessed several situations where this kind of hostility is specifically targeted at black men. Frisking and probable cause is being used and abused in a way that only serves to worsen the issue BECAUSE it's being significantly directed AT a particular group of people. This phenomena exists. A teenager didn't need to be shot 6 times by the big and mighty POLICE OFFICER. I don't buy that, I'm sorry. He was not armed. The officer could have took him down and restrained him physically with his pinky, if he wanted to. Or how about the black woman who got beaten to the floor because she was jay-walking and police officer only felt like sh*t because she turned out to be a professor? No, she wasn't the piece of crap that he first thought she was.

What about Eric who got choked to death by a police officer just because he kept reiterating that he wasn't selling tobacco on the streets?

Or what about the man who got shot by a police officer because the cop thought he was pulling out a weapon when in fact he was only trying to reach out for his license and registration?

There are so many "what abouts" that I could add to reiterate my point. This kind of brutality is not often seen directed at whites. That's the truth.

It all boils down to subjugation. The demeaning gaze of criminality casted upon the black body.

No. So much of what is being said here needs to be revised. I urge this not to make a statement about my beliefs but to highlight that the real issue at hand is not being thoroughly critiqued.

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So. Much. Win. The criminality of the black body includes stereotyping as well. Self-hate derives from buying into the belief systems of the elite and majority and essentially degrading your own. Ironically, the only way self-hate can be addressed is by working internally and dissolving away the false ideologies one believes about one's race.

posted November 25, 2014 11:07 PM            

It still does not excuse insolent law-infringing behavior. This applies to all races and to law enforcement as well.

posted November 25, 2014 11:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Of course the deaths of Cops WOD isn't going to even compare partially to the deaths of of W on B, B on W, B on B and W on W crime. The fact of the matter is that there's more crime with those of the same race than those of different, that is the disease. Self hate is a huge problem that has to be addressed first in order to fix anything else. How can anyone possibly expect help when those asking for it don't even respect each other, kill each other?

There are incredible amounts of ignorant black people, it's proven by statistics. Many lower income blacks would rather repeat what their parents(who were and are also ignorant) did because they feel trapped in their lifestyles. Not sure why we're acting as if only educated blacks are being targeted(which I don't believe they are) because that's not the case. It's the ignorant, ghetto people that create problems for themselves by themselves, and should be held accountable for their actions. How can we possibly sit around and act like we haven't seen the belligerent, pants hanging down his ass, can't speak without saying one expletive, black male? We all have seen MANY. Should I even go in depth on the females? They're thugs. Not all of them are this way, but it's the majority of those like that that are thrown in jail or killed because of their own stupidity. I mean have you seen cops? Youtube videos? I'm not racists at all just telling it how I see it. If I offended anyone than I apologize, I'm just trying to be truthful regardless of how much it hurts.

Anyhoo hope you guys have a good night, it's been fun!

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Wow... I'm not sure what to say to this besides the fact that I think you are severely misinterpreting the situation. In any case, you are entitled to your own opinions. I would like to remind you and everyone here where, why, and how rap began. It was an artistic urban movement against systemic racism. The discourse has become engrained within black urban culture.

The black woman that I mentioned was respectable PROFESSOR. What was the excuse then? The sense of shame was only felt AFTER he realized she wasn't some "thug", as you say. Doesn't that imply some kind of preconceived bias and implicit racist views towards blacks? Or is jay-walking a crime worthy of beating a BLACK (ding, ding, ding!) woman down to the floor?

No, ma'am. I'll leave you with this though, coming from an educated, talented, wealthy black man:

"My momma was raised in the era when
Clean water was only served to the fairer skin
Doin' clothes you would have thought I had help
But they wasn't satisfied unless I picked the cotton myself
You see it's broke n**** racism
That's that "Don't touch anything in the store"
And it's rich n**** racism
That's that "Come in, please buy more"

"What you want, a Bentley? Fur coat? A diamond chain?
All you blacks want all the same things"
Used to only be n****s, now everybody playin'
Spendin' everything on Alexander Wang
New Slaves"

posted November 25, 2014 11:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
So. Much. Win. The criminality of the black body includes stereotyping as well. Self-hate derives from buying into the belief systems of the elite and majority and essentially degrading your own. Ironically, the only way self-hate can be addressed is by working internally and dissolving away the false ideologies one believes about one's race.

I'll get to your email soon.

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