posted December 06, 2014 11:55 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:

@PisceanDream
Nice. I was expecting a natalistic rant at some point. You're entitled to your opinion and I am to mine. But I don't understand why you see my posts as giving orders. I used words like "believe", "should". Should is not have to. OP is free to do what she wants and I won't harrass her around the forum if she announces she decided to play a mommy. I wouldn't do it even if she said she was going to sell her baby to Russian billionaires. I'm simply warning her.

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I wouldn't have offered such a rant simply because it's not my place to do so. I'm a pro-everything-as-long-as-it-suits-your-needs kinda gal. Cappy, it's not about using auxiliary verbs to suggest a less authoritative tone in your approach. But it's the fact that whatever follows the intent behind the "should" almost always sounds belittling. Like this for example: "Pregnancy can be very easily prevented if someone actually uses their brain."

It's hard not to interpret this remark as a back-handed insult at OP or anyone in a similar situation. The problem isn't in what you offered but how you offered it. You can say whatever opinion you like, certainly I am not one to attack someone based on their beliefs (unless they're blatantly inhumane), but there's no need to lace it with harsh remarks. That's all I mean to deliver...

posted December 06, 2014 11:57 AM              

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@Barbiegirl19
I offer facts and solutions. You offer delusional enthusiasm and patting on the shoulder. Let's see what gives a better result.

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This is why I don't waste either of our time talking with you. It's like talking to Suri or Cortana, same lifeless, robotic yet typical response. Are we playing a game here? Who ever gets to the top first wins?

posted December 06, 2014 11:59 AM              

Talk to those close to you. Family, close friends, those involved, and professionals that can help you. You'll get advice 1,000x more valuable than some random people on the internet.

posted December 06, 2014 12:35 PM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Here's my advice in the simplest form.

Talk to those close to you. Family, close friends, those involved, and professionals that can help you. You'll get advice 1,000x more valuable than some random people on the internet.

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posted December 06, 2014 12:58 PM            

My advice would be for whitewitch to think more about the life she could bring into the world and what would be best for it. Is her situation one in which she could provide it a healthy, happy, stable life for many years to come, possibly on her own, without a lot of support from people? Yes, as some have pointed out, there are services out there but they often aren't enough and many mothers still struggle to bring children up even with that kind of help. At the end of the day, parenting can be extremely overwhelming no matter how much support you might have. Is whitewitch ready for that? Only she can answer that.

If she were the child, would she appreciate being brought into the situation her parents would be bringing her into? Would the child be able to thrive in it? Also, I don't think people often think about the genes they are passing onto their children either and how that will affect the future human's life and lives of those around them.

More to say, but i'm afraid to. I'm sure whitewitch has a lot going on in her mind right now and hope she's seeking support from people who love her and can help her sort out the best decision for her - and more importantly, possibly a new human being.

ETA: i briefly scrolled back through some pages here to get a better idea of ww's situation and want to say

posted December 06, 2014 02:10 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Unhealthy.

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I'm not positive that's the case. Sometimes children are essentially more mature than their parents and will inevitably play a supportive role to them right from the start.

This assertion is backed up with astrological fact. My own experience as a Pisces moon, taking every hit that my mother took along with her, and wanting to shield her any way I could, is a case in point.

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Standard family or not, we're dealing here with someone who can become dangerous due to the mixture of PD and hormonal mess.

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I don't know how you know that. I haven't read all of whitewitch's posts and even if I did, there is room for further details that we are unaware of. I do think it's haughty and misguided to argue that someone SHOULD abort, when you don't even know them.

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Someone who could damage their child if she was the care taker. It's not her fault to be borderline but it will be her fault if she screws up an innocent being.

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posted December 06, 2014 02:14 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
oh and btw I got your email, and I am deeply deeply touched and moved, which is why I had to let it sink a bit before I can reply to it.

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Whew! I was hoping I didn't seem intrusive.

That was a great experience for me and helped me understand some other things particular to my life and the people I know. I'm glad you didn't mind it.

posted December 06, 2014 02:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:
But Faith…. are you really saying it would be fair to let the guy believe he is the father when he may not be?

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I never said that. I said that, since we don't know the boyfriend, we cannot give advice. What if her boyfriend gets violent when he's angry?

I'm not going to instruct people to take risks when I have no idea what the risks actually are.

That's all I was saying. It's up to her, what she reveals and doesn't reveal.

posted December 06, 2014 02:24 PM            

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I agree with most of what cappy said and that I don't think she was trying to be mean. To me, it sounds like she feels extremely strongly about her opinions and is hoping that sharing them bluntly might help whitewitch take this serious matter even more seriously. Instead of getting swept away with the ideas that getting pregnant is some sort of "miracle" or "blessing" from God. I have never believed that either. If you are having unprotected sex (or even sometimes protected) it's bound to happen because that's what human and animal bodies were designed to do. I personally don't find it miraculous.

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If it was up to me people would have to go through a complex screening process and pass it to be allowed to have children.

posted December 06, 2014 02:26 PM            

Nice to see you around again, too!

@T

And you, too!

posted December 06, 2014 02:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
If it was up to me people would have to go through a complex screening process and pass it to be allowed to have children.

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What criteria for parenthood is actually that stable? Income can change, spouses change, genetics and health can change, so what would you base this on?

posted December 06, 2014 03:56 PM            

One of the issues i was going to bring up was how important the environment of the developing fetus is - the mother's physical and mental state during pregnancy, never mind the environment afterwards. Postpartum depression also came to mind as i thought i had read something before about women that are dealing with mental health issues beforehand have a higher likelihood of developing it.

I know that stress is very taxing on our own bodies and even moreso a developing fetus. Stress, depression and other mental health issues do impact the growing baby and not in a good way, for the rest of it's life.

While i can see why some would suggest adoption, I don't know if i agree that is always the best answer either. Even if the child was adopted by a great family, it might have lifelong issues that stemmed from the unhealthy state and genes while developing in utero.

I think about how the hard decision of giving up a baby for adoption will effect a woman for the rest of her life, who is already dealing with severe mental issues, will that end up making them worse? It will also most likely be very hard on the child who learns they've been given up eventually. I'm not saying choosing abortion doesn't come with painful consequences either.

I would feel extremely guilty and irresponsible bringing a life into this world knowing that it did not have a healthy bodily environment to develop in and not knowing how it would effect the individual for the rest of it's life. That's just me and I don't expect anyone else to feel the same.

Her's is a really complex situation. And none of us know which is the right decision for whitewitch to make.

a couple of informative links:
http://www.webmd.com/baby/features/fetal-stress http://psychcentral.com/news/2014/02/22/unintended-pregnancy-risks-depression/66165.ht ml

I don't know if BPD stands for Bi-Polar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder. Either way, doing a search on how mental illness effects the development of a fetus can bring up more info. A psychotherapist can help her come to the right decision for all involved.

posted December 06, 2014 04:50 PM            

I haven't posted here in years, although I still read the boards. However, this thread compelled me to reply. I can't offer advice in this instance, I'm just in disbelief of the situation; moreover, in disbelief that people think this is acceptable, responsible behaviour.

When I first read the initial post, I must admit, I thought 'you can't make this **** up'. I don't know the OP, I can only go by the previous threads she has made. And to me, if this is real, it's a mess. She hasn't even replied. Unbelievable.

posted December 06, 2014 05:43 PM              

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Originally posted by Faith:
@PisceanDream Thanks for your eloquent posts.

Nice to see you around again, too!

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posted December 06, 2014 05:45 PM            

I don't think many people were"bashing" her, per se, just giving what seems like logical advice.

However, someone struggling with something like BPD has great struggles that many of us will never have.

I hate for WW to see this and be shamed. Most people do not understand how awful it is to have a mental illness, whether it be depression or BPD

Hence, I am just sending her my love and support.

Again, I don't mean to diss anyone who posted here. I just want to add my 2 cents.

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 06, 2014 05:46 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
He is no less of a person because his mother practically moved heaven and earth to keep him sheltered and fed and sane. In fact I think he is more of a person for it. Not everyone has the fortitude of my friend, but you also have to keep in mind that children are not idiots and they can do a lot for themselves...sometimes the children take on a parental role at an early age, and even though that's not the standard and not what we expect, it may be a healing situation for all involved. Some children are also prodigies, destined to make a serious contribution to the world...in fact many famous people come from desperate childhoods.

Just something to think about: parent-child relationships come in all varieties, home life can be heaven or hell depending on any number of factors including simple synastry, and just because a mother cannot offer a standard family life for the child, that doesn't mean all potential quality of life for the child is lost.

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I don't disagree with this, the Taoists have a story of "who can tell what is good or bad" that I like, and nothing is certain (not to be confused with "we have no control"). But her repeated behavior (which probably includes cheating, and if her boyfriend would attack her for admitting to this--which is entirely possible given her pattern of poor life choices--what will he do when he catches her with this same guy or another later on?) simply should not be enabled and the child's welfare definitely deserves more consideration than whitewitch's feelings.

The possibilities you offer may come about but aren't likely (and children raising parents isn't fun, growing up raising some dysfunctional alcoholics myself I know but right now I'm finding myself glad the 'rents didn't have BPD instead, at least to where they're always cutting themselves and freaking out, and I knew I could generally let my guard down when my parents were sober which wouldn't have been the case if one or both had BPD). And I see no reason to enable such behavior that is not only reckless but dangerous to herself and to others, behavior which she keeps repeating. If any of us was raised by whitewitch (assuming she remains the same as she is now) then she'd pretty much BE the mother some here describe (in rants) as having been raised by and even still putting up with today, and I doubt all the "support" (read: enabling) would be encouraged in their mother's case.

posted December 06, 2014 05:50 PM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Something tells me OP is afraid to come back to this thread or reply to us.

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posted December 06, 2014 06:37 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
WW has a pattern of posting threads like these and never returning, no matter how supportive people are.

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posted December 06, 2014 08:12 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
And I see no reason to enable such behavior that is not only reckless but dangerous to herself and to others, behavior which she keeps repeating.

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Enabling?

No one said, "Keep the baby, all will be well. " I certainly didn't mean to give that impression. As I said, for my friend, raising a child was "extremely difficult." Should I have written that in capital letters?

I was more speaking to the conversation about abortion and the things being said about qualification.

Abortion may also be difficult, and my college roommate who had an abortion couldn't sleep for a year afterwards because she was in excruciating pain.

So...

There is no easy solution. Abortion is easy for some women, emotionally and physically, but that's nothing to bank on. It can damage a woman pretty badly.

posted December 06, 2014 08:32 PM            

Whatever your choice, OP, my best wishes and I bid you the best.

posted December 06, 2014 08:39 PM            

I know when I was really struggling with my mother, people would give me some version of "Get over it"

I couldn't. It was not that I wouldn't. I couldn't.

There is a very big difference.

I give all the credit to God but I have healed from a life long depression.

I have healed from a life long co--dependency.

I have healed from one Person and that is Jesus.

However, my healing has given me a HUMILITY when I see others suffer.

One must meet them in their suffering, NOT judge them.

Judging will just impute shame and they have more than enough shame.

I don't want WW to come back to a thread full of shame.

I don't believe in abortion myself because I think it is killing a life but my heart goes out to her and I want her to know she is loved.

That is my simple message

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 06, 2014 10:09 PM            

Cappy, you are very right we won't be there to offer immediate support but you are applying rationalism to something that can't be managed in an entirely rational way. Good luck holding onto that if you have your own child - it's quite funny watching those who think they have everything in proper order completely crumble when a baby is thrown into the equation . In fact, you haven't had your saturn return yet? Good luck with your rationality during that!

I found myself pregnant in pretty bad circumstances and decided to continue with the pregnancy. (I've also had a termination - though I didn't agree with it in principle I put other things above it. In that case I did feel enormous relief amongst other emotions). My life was not stable, it was a new and casual relationship, I had just graduated though but was career hungry. I also wonder if I have and had bpd. The pregnancy was very difficult basically because of the stress and also because even up to five months I was still making appointments for an abortion believing it was just a matter of going through with it, I drank heavily. Although I did develop post-partum depression (and I believe the stress and negative reactions I faced contributed heavily) my daughter was fine. Also, even though I had that, I actually think in many ways I was a better mother that time round because I ran on massive auto pilot and to hide the way I was feeling, well I hid it very well.

On reflection, it is true it's difficult and a decision not to be made lightly. I often feel I've failed as a parent and would I have done xyz better with a normal set up. But in many ways it allows and forces a good parenting style. Actually through circumstances I've spent good, quality time talking with my daughter's and the bond from birth has been strong purely because I was the only carer - it was a relief to be able to feed and sleep as needed and purely meet my babies needs without a husband to make dinner for. So the baby dictated the routine absolutely and I don't think that's a bad thing. I've seen up close couples with the perfect set up bouncing guilt off one another over who does what and the deep resentments embed and I much preferred doing it all than that. Likewise, I no longer envy the outwardly appearance of a normal set up having seen what a facade it can be with often a lot of dissatisfaction merely suppressed.

I would have pursued a career I would not have enjoyed but instead I've found the career I'm meant to do - of course, it's not recommended to make a decision on pure hope of everything falling into place because it's not the easy route but basically when I've imagined what life would have been like if I'd made another decision -and oh, I have- I think ostensibly I'd be in the same place. But I just had to cut through a lot of broughs. But I do hope I've at the least shown my children, my daughter's, you do not 'need' a man, you can follow whatever you believe is right and you can also have a career and be a single parent. Pretty positive messages.

I do not want to mislead because I never would have wondered what an alternative life would be like if it hadn't been hard - it can be very lonely.I'm in a reasonably good place but I haven't been and I also could lean on family when I didn't feel able to deal with it. I just think some reality checks need balancing out a bit.