posted August 06, 2014 04:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
BML has very little, if anything, to do with the ACTUAL mother. This is more of a straight-up MOON thing.

BML, on the other hand, is where we feel rejected by society, or have been otherwise ostracised for our behaviours, beliefs, or choices. Our principles are different from the norm; we're outliers; don't land on the curve. For that reason, society takes a suspicious stance, and is 'unsure' about us.

---

I believe that the BML has a lot to do with the mother. It also has to do with the motherland (you're right). The place where we grew up.

So the same way we feel rejected by the mother and the society we grew up in as well.

posted August 06, 2014 04:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Forgive my stating the obvious, but you're very young and hardly representative of the population of BML-SUN. Also, what orb are you using?

I take issue with such absolutist statements, especially when cloaked in the guise of science, or statistics. Your personal experience, while hardly discounted, is simply not representative. It COULD be, when taken in conjunction with a statistically significant sample size.

But you'd do well to refrain from statements like 'ask me because I have X.' It's just not viable.

---

I am not stupid. I know where you're coming from, but I have some brains too, you know. My mom hates my father because he was abusive and I remind her of him and sometimes in her bml mood she says things like "i wish you stayed with your father" "you're just like your father, he was like that too" etc (in mean/revengeful ways she says it. And my friend, born a week later than me has the same thing, her sister also has the same thing!

And I asked her about it, and she said that indeed her mother did not like her father.

I did a reading for someone and they had the same thing, and they agreed too! They said it was true that their mother didn't like the father in them.

I have cousins who are brothers and sisters and they both have bml conjunct their moons, in both of their charts, and their mother is indeed, known to be very self-insecure. It's her personal problem she has about herself and I know that.

Anyways, I believe in it 100% because it's one of the most shockingly true aspects I've noticed since I ever started reading charts.

xx

posted August 06, 2014 04:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
I believe that the BML has a lot to do with the mother. It also has to do with the motherland (you're right). The place where we grew up.

So the same way we feel rejected by the mother and the society we grew up in as well.

---

I just haven't seen that in my research. I don't think BML is the point you should be reviewing in that regard. She rejects paternal society; she rejects husbandry, the traditional institution of marriage -- the society that would seek to control her and 'own' her.

I also think you should begin looking into her many faces: the TRUE BLACK MOON as well as the MEAN BLACK MOON (BML), and the asteroid LILITH 1181. There's the DARK MOON LILITH, too. Each has its own representation of the stage of Lilith: from rejected by society and becoming wild and untamed, to finding solace and confidence within her wild world and slowly reinserting herself into society, a more 'socially acceptable' version of herself, but in no way willing to be dominated or controlled.

posted August 06, 2014 04:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
I am not stupid. I know where you're coming from, but I have some brains too, you know. My mom hates my father because he was abusive and I remind her of him and sometimes in her bml mood she says things like "i wish you stayed with your father" "you're just like your father, he was like that too" etc (in mean/revengeful ways she says it. And my friend, born a week later than me has the same thing, her sister also has the same thing!

And I asked her about it, and she said that indeed her mother did not like her father.

I did a reading for someone and they had the same thing, and they agreed too! They said it was true that their mother didn't like the father in them.

I have cousins who are brothers and sisters and they both have bml conjunct their moons, in both of their charts, and their mother is indeed, known to be very self-insecure. It's her personal problem she has about herself and I know that.

Anyways, I believe in it 100% because it's one of the most shockingly true aspects I've noticed since I ever started reading charts.

xx

---

Honey. Anecdotal experience is not proof of a theory -- or even testing the hypothesis. I'm not questioning your intelligence; I'm alerting you to the fact you're misusing science. Drawing faulty conclusions based solely in personal observations is NOT good science.

You can say, 'in my personal experience, I've found X to be so.' But stating, 'this is the truth about,' is going to get the hackles up of every scientist here.

Consider that THIS experience is important for YOU, and be grateful for it, and learn from it. Wait before you start making grand pronouncements. Get a bit more experience under your belt.

I think you're on to something in YOUR circle. Your own karmic history and profile seems to be leading you to connect with others who have experienced a similar wounding. Perhaps look instead at their lunar aspects, and run some multi-composites?

posted August 06, 2014 05:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
... NO.

Flat out -- NO.

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING. PERIOD.

PRIAPUS has NOTHING to do with the maternal experience; frankly, BML doesn't either, but I'd be willing to at least test it. But PRIAPUS? No.

PRIAPUS is the vulnerability point; it's where we have a powerful drive to merge, which is often unconscious, and can be overwhelming if tapped. It can be sexual, but it is largely a sense of 'merging' -- however that may be achieved, as it depends.

I highly suggest reading Donna Cunningham, if you're interested in lunar archetypes, as she, literally, wrote the book. Then supplement with Liz Greene (if you haven't) and Demetra George, when you'd like to learn more about the BML concept.

Also, 8-9º orb for a conjunction to a mathematical point is insanity. Cap it at 1º. 2º, if you're being generous.

---

Perhaps it's because you believe too much in what other authors say, because they are "professional astrologers" rather than looking at things experimenting it yourself. I don't believe in something unless I see it for myself. I honestly don't understand words like "depth, overwhelming sexual power to merge, etc" because unless I don't get a straight fact I don't buy it.

"Professional astrologers" have their career as astrologers, they need to sell books and their money depends on it, so I usually don't trust "professional astrologers". I think I can tell the difference between them. The one that makes more sense to me is the one I go for.

I have read books by ptolemy, cornelius agrippa, and other traditional books on astrology. I think they opened my eyes more than when I read the usual nonsense of the modern astrologers these days.

Sorry if you don't like my way of looking at things. But I won't change it unless I find a reasonable reason.

posted August 06, 2014 05:03 PM            

I really don't think I have anything more to say, except:

You're incorrect -- or, at the very least, you're spouting nonsense which has no basis.

Find a basis, and I might consider it. In the meantime, start learning about the construction of the wheel before you think you can take it apart and reinvent it.

posted August 06, 2014 05:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Honey. Anecdotal experience is not proof of a theory -- or even testing the hypothesis. I'm not questioning your intelligence; I'm alerting you to the fact you're misusing science. Drawing faulty conclusions based solely in personal observations is NOT good science.

You can say, 'in my personal experience, I've found X to be so.' But stating, 'this is the truth about,' is going to get the hackles up of every scientist here.

Consider that THIS experience is important for YOU, and be grateful for it, and learn from it. Wait before you start making grand pronouncements. Get a bit more experience under your belt.

I think you're on to something in YOUR circle. Your own karmic history and profile seems to be leading you to connect with others who have experienced a similar wounding. Perhaps look instead at their lunar aspects, and run some multi-composites?

Anecdotal evidence is merely that. Anecdotal.

---

Then if it's not experience, then how else do you get the "proof" for astrology and the meaning behind the things?

xx

posted August 06, 2014 05:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
Perhaps it's because you believe too much in what other authors say, because they are "professional astrologers" rather than looking at things experimenting it yourself. I don't believe in something unless I see it for myself. I honestly don't understand words like "depth, overwhelming sexual power to merge, etc" because unless I don't get a straight fact I don't buy it.

"Professional astrologers" have their career as astrologers, they need to sell books and their money depends on it, so I usually don't trust "professional astrologers". I think I can tell the difference between them. The one that makes more sense to me is the one I go for.

I have read books by ptolemy, cornelius agrippa, and other traditional books on astrology. I think they opened my eyes more than when I read the usual nonsense of the modern astrologers these days.

Sorry if you don't like my way of looking at things. But I won't change it unless I find a reasonable reason.

---

Perhaps you don't understand it because it's not yet in your vocabulary. There are dictionaries for that.

I've been doing charts since before you were born. I've got a personal database of more than a thousand charts.

I TEST EVERYTHING.

You, my dear, are not testing ANYTHING. You are arriving at FAULTY CONCLUSIONS based upon PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

THIS! IS! NOT! SCIENCE! STOP PRETENDING THAT IT IS!

Before you go any further, I urge you, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

posted August 06, 2014 05:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
Then if it's not experience, then how else do you get the "proof" for astrology and the meaning behind the things?

xx

---

SCIENCE, my dear! The Method!

Okay, let's take your BML Hypothesis. Start with 100 charts, and decide for what you're controlling. Start with age, and work in details like sign, or month of birth.

Let's say you want no more than 5 charts of the same birth year; it'll control for age, somewhat. But not perfectly. You'll at the very least not end up with 80 charts from 1995.

Then, in each chart, make a note of the BML position and what aspects it's making.

Devise a questionnaire for each chart you're running. Ask basic questions. If you want honesty, ask things like, 'What did you get your mother for her birthday last year?' The ones who are estranged will reveal themselves immediately by either saying, 'I hate my mother,' or 'we haven't spoken for ten years.' So on.

Then do a match up between the BML charts and the questionnaire responses.

How many of the BML conjunct X are a match for the individuals who have a poor or confrontational, 'toxic', relationship with mom?

If you've got more than 5% of your charts, it's statistically accurate -- for that sample size. Which is iffy -- but doable. (Really, you want closer to 1000 -- but, baby steps.)

posted August 06, 2014 05:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Oh, Mia. You remind me of a child who's learnt a brand new word and wishes to insert it into every single conversation. Proud, but misguided.

I really don't think I have anything more to say, except:

You're incorrect -- or, at the very least, you're spouting nonsense which has no basis.

Find a basis, and I might consider it. In the meantime, start learning about the construction of the wheel before you think you can take it apart and reinvent it.

You'll find there's a reason why it was originally constructed that way to begin with.

---

Lol you make me laugh. Because I know exactly why you're being so skeptical of it and opposing my theory. It's because I said it with too much enthusiasm and that urges you to disprove me. It's human nature.

And 2nd of all you're judging me by age. Yet you don't know anything about me.

I may be incorrect, but only in YOUR eyes. And I'm okay with it. I never tried to force my beliefs own your throat in the first place. Or anyone's.

I would have believed you and considered your argument if you had something reasonable to disprove my theory but I can't find anything reasonable. You're just saying that I'm either "too young" "4 charts are not enough" "I need proof"

lol I mean what other "proof" can you get other than knowing by people's experience of life?

I never said it's an official fact in the first place. It was just my theory!

If someone knows me, first of all, they know that I never sprout "nonsense" out of my mouth. And you can't judge me behind the screen like that.

Why don't you try to experiment this theory for yourself first?

Or are you that ignorant that without any reasonable oppositions but only superficial judgement of it, you're going to completely disagree with it?

At least I don't blindly believe what any astrologer says, I look for things by myself.

xx

posted August 06, 2014 05:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
Thanks

Priapus is usually somewhere opposite of BML.

BML represents the place where the moon is the farthest from earth.

Moon = Mother.

So that means that where the BML is, it shows neglect, coldness, harshness, cruelty from the part of the mother.

But Priapus is where the moon is the closest to the earth.

That means the Priapus shows where the mother exerts her force and control in us. She wants to control us in that particular part of our chart, as opposed to the BML's placement.

What do you think the myth of Priapus having a large private means? No it doesn't literally mean that if we have moon conjunct priapus we'll have that too. We should look at the symbolism. Moon controls people's hormones/excitements/feelings. In the myth of priapus, we see how he cannot control his feelings and needs affection. That shows the moon of our mother who can't help but control and show her affection in an exaggerated way in that part of her life.

While the BML, there it shows the moon neglecting and being cruel because of its lack of affection. BML is extremely cruel. It's like when it hurts more when someone ignores you than being mean to you.

That is why during the full moon, people's feelings/control on themselves becomes lose.

our mother represents affection and love (or the lack of). BML and Priapus are these two extremes where both the lack of, or the addition of affection are both crazy and dangerous. They occur without logical thinking on the part of our mothers. It's something uncontrollable for them. Just like we have mood swings during our period.

Because it all has to do with the moon. The moon is the reason for making people lunatic (that's where the word lunatic comes from). Lol.

If you don't believe me you can google the scientific explanation of BML and perigee moon (or priapus in astrology) to understand better.

xx

---

posted August 06, 2014 05:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
SCIENCE, my dear! The Method!

Okay, let's take your BML Hypothesis. Start with 100 charts, and decide for what you're controlling. Start with age, and work in details like sign, or month of birth.

Let's say you want no more than 5 charts of the same birth year; it'll control for age, somewhat. But not perfectly. You'll at the very least not end up with 80 charts from 1995.

Then, in each chart, make a note of the BML position and what aspects it's making.

Devise a questionnaire for each chart you're running. Ask basic questions. If you want honesty, ask things like, 'What did you get your mother for her birthday last year?' The ones who are estranged will reveal themselves immediately by either saying, 'I hate my mother,' or 'we haven't spoken for ten years.' So on.

Then do a match up between the BML charts and the questionnaire responses.

How many of the BML conjunct X are a match for the individuals who have a poor or confrontational, 'toxic', relationship with mom?

If you've got more than 5% of your charts, it's statistically accurate -- for that sample size. Which is iffy -- but doable. (Really, you want closer to 1000 -- but, baby steps.)

THAT's how you test an astrological hypothesis.

---

That's not a bad idea. But the problem with modern astrology these days is that they're turning an INDIVIDUAL'S astrological chart into science lab experiment!

That's completely ridiculous.

I know what they do. They see how many people of particular sun sign/mars sign/etc make up let's say "murderers" or something.

You have to look at the whole chart.

Nevertheless, I would still love to do this experiment because I'm sure if we just do an experiment with bml conjunct sun we'l be able to see the results.

But not everyone has the privilege to softwares/sites/idk whatever that you need to take surveys from thousands of people. But if it can be, I would like to see the result.

And like I said, I wasn't stating any fact, but a theory.

I don't understand why you need to be so disapproving when I'm not even forcing you to believe it. It's not like my theory's gonna spread like a viral over the internet in one night. Lol.

For now, only 1 person somewhat agreed with my theory, (except you of course).

We'll see if more people agree or not.

xx

posted August 06, 2014 05:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
SCIENCE, my dear! The Method!

Okay, let's take your BML Hypothesis. Start with 100 charts, and decide for what you're controlling. Start with age, and work in details like sign, or month of birth.

Let's say you want no more than 5 charts of the same birth year; it'll control for age, somewhat. But not perfectly. You'll at the very least not end up with 80 charts from 1995.

Then, in each chart, make a note of the BML position and what aspects it's making.

Devise a questionnaire for each chart you're running. Ask basic questions. If you want honesty, ask things like, 'What did you get your mother for her birthday last year?' The ones who are estranged will reveal themselves immediately by either saying, 'I hate my mother,' or 'we haven't spoken for ten years.' So on.

Then do a match up between the BML charts and the questionnaire responses.

How many of the BML conjunct X are a match for the individuals who have a poor or confrontational, 'toxic', relationship with mom?

If you've got more than 5% of your charts, it's statistically accurate -- for that sample size. Which is iffy -- but doable. (Really, you want closer to 1000 -- but, baby steps.)

THAT's how you test an astrological hypothesis.

---

You are right but I think she was just expressing a hypothesis and just worded it like a theory which rubbed you the wrong way LOL. I read her thread and I knew this was a hypothesis and something that needs to be researched and I noticed she phrased it like a theory but I like enthusiastic people who think outside the box and to hear different ideas.

posted August 06, 2014 05:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by amelia28:
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Its interesting..I do like reading different views on how people see things astrologically bc they add more layers to the power to interpret a chart and I do think you are on to something. Keep researching it and growing your sample.

---

No problem x

Thanks for considering my theory and I hope it works. I'll try to ask more people with their won experiences with BML and see the results. xx

posted August 06, 2014 05:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Perhaps you don't understand it because it's not yet in your vocabulary. There are dictionaries for that.

I've been doing charts since before you were born. I've got a personal database of more than a thousand charts.

I TEST EVERYTHING.

You, my dear, are not testing ANYTHING. You are arriving at FAULTY CONCLUSIONS based upon PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

THIS! IS! NOT! SCIENCE! STOP PRETENDING THAT IT IS!

Before you go any further, I urge you, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Good. God. You have a lot of hubris.

---

You know what? I DON'T CARE.

I never believe in modern scientific methods of knowing more about someone's charts. To understand astrology, you can't turn it into science lab thing testing it. You have to understand it spiritually because that's what it's all about! No computer or program can ever generate things out of astrology charts than a human gifted brain. Seriously.

In my experience, traditional astrologers are 80% more accurate than modern astrologers.

Traditional astrologer examples - Christopher Warnock, etc (i can't remember more names right now)

posted August 06, 2014 05:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by amelia28:
You are right but I think she was just expressing a hypothesis and just worded it like a theory which rubbed you the wrong way LOL. I read her thread and I knew this was a hypothesis and something that needs to be researched and I noticed she phrased it like a theory but I like enthusiastic people who think outside the box and to hear different ideas.

But great job breaking the process down LOL, makes me want to do research with you! Exciting

---

Thanks, Amelia. It's just ... ingrained. Too many years. Too much science. Some days, I can STILL hear my Stats 2 prof going, 'and that won't confound this study HOW?' In this clipped British. It always made me wince. He had this way of pointing out just how grievously something was wrong, without expressing WHAT was wrong. While incredibly annoying, it DID make me think.

Mia was just making so many novice mistakes, it was setting my teeth on edge! It's one thing to go, 'oh, thank you for informing me.' (Because I'm the first to immediately accept when someone with greater experience than mine shares it with me.) But then to do the whole, 'no, I'm right, and you're wrong' ?

Let's just say it gets MY SUN-BML-PLUTO into something of a tizzy!

posted August 06, 2014 05:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
No problem x

Thanks for considering my theory and I hope it works. I'll try to ask more people with their won experiences with BML and see the results. xx

---

posted August 06, 2014 05:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Thanks, Amelia. It's just ... ingrained. Too many years. Too much science. Some days, I can STILL hear my Stats 2 prof going, 'and that won't confound this study HOW?' In this clipped British. It always made me wince. He had this way of pointing out just how grievously something was wrong, without expressing WHAT was wrong. While incredibly annoying, it DID make me think.

Mia was just making so many novice mistakes, it was setting my teeth on edge! It's one thing to go, 'oh, thank you for informing me.' (Because I'm the first to immediately accept when someone with greater experience than mine shares it with me.) But then to do the whole, 'no, I'm right, and you're wrong' ?

Let's just say it gets MY SUN-BML-PLUTO into something of a tizzy!

We SHOULD do research together, Amelia. It'd be both productive and fun for us both!

---

LMAO..

its funny that you mention your sun-BML-pluto bc I was thinking wow I think I am seeing now how she is when this aspect gets activated! hahaha

posted August 06, 2014 05:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Thanks, Amelia. It's just ... ingrained. Too many years. Too much science. Some days, I can STILL hear my Stats 2 prof going, 'and that won't confound this study HOW?' In this clipped British. It always made me wince. He had this way of pointing out just how grievously something was wrong, without expressing WHAT was wrong. While incredibly annoying, it DID make me think.

Mia was just making so many novice mistakes, it was setting my teeth on edge! It's one thing to go, 'oh, thank you for informing me.' (Because I'm the first to immediately accept when someone with greater experience than mine shares it with me.) But then to do the whole, 'no, I'm right, and you're wrong' ?

Let's just say it gets MY SUN-BML-PLUTO into something of a tizzy!

We SHOULD do research together, Amelia. It'd be both productive and fun for us both!

---

IndigoDirae,

We just have different ways of looking at astrology. You look at it in a more scientific/research/"professional"/technical way while I look at it with personal experience and understanding of my natural god-gifted human brain with soul.

Go on then, take my idea/theory and research it and then claim to everyone "I'm the one who found it" etc.

I believe in karma btw.

I know you're just stealing my idea and I shouldn't have posted it. But I hope if it gets "approved" by your science lab or something, people will find this thread and know the truth.

xx

posted August 06, 2014 05:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Sorry if my experimental scientist is showing.

---

Yes, it is showing. You should have rather been a dentist or something rather than an astrologer.

posted August 06, 2014 05:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
You know what? I DON'T CARE.

I never believe in modern scientific methods of knowing more about someone's charts. To understand astrology, you can't turn it into science lab thing testing it. You have to understand it spiritually because that's what it's all about! No computer or program can ever generate things out of astrology charts than a human gifted brain. Seriously.

In my experience, traditional astrologers are 80% more accurate than modern astrologers.

Traditional astrologer examples - Christopher Warnock, etc (i can't remember more names right now)

---

Grow up, Mia. I mean that in all seriousness. Grow. Up. You have a LOT to learn. PLEASE don't think you've learnt it all at this tender age.

I can see you have no respect for my wisdom, so, that's fine. Go on sweetheart, but I'll likely be ignoring your grand pronouncements until you show some humility.

posted August 06, 2014 05:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
Yes, it is showing. You should have rather been a dentist or something rather than an astrologer.

---

Honey, I'm so many things, it'd make your head spin trying to process it all. So let's just not. Okay? I'm done with this.

posted August 06, 2014 05:54 PM            

Seriously Indigo is a good person with a good heart and I know you are tooo;I can tell.

posted August 06, 2014 05:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by amelia28:
Astrology is both a science and an art.........its like she today is focusing on the science of it and you on the art of it and I am here in the middle saying can we all just get along! LOL.

Seriously Indigo is a good person with a good heart and I know you are tooo;I can tell.

I assure you she wont steal your idea. Perhaps we can all return to this thread if we find more cases that confirm this or that don't and continue exploring and researching this.

---

STEAL HER IDEA? Oh, good GOD, am I really hearing this? A CHILD is afraid that a CONCEPT ... will be ...

I think I'm gonna be faint. I really, really do. This drama is BEYOND ridiculous.

Hell, yes, I'm a good person, and a damned good astrologer with 25 years under my belt. Mia has, what, 2?

I'm sorry, but WHAT IS IT WITH THE KIDS TODAY? How about running THAT as an experiment? Whatever happened to respect for those who have experience beyond our own? Is that just SO passe to the point of being discontinued?

This society floors me.

Oh, and Mia, don't worry, kiddo, your 'idea' was disproven long before you ever started tinkering with it. I'm currently exploring concepts that have actual weight. But you keep on being rude to the professionals and saying you know what you're talking about. That'll get you far in life.

(Sorry, Amelia. I couldn't just let THAT one slide.)