posted August 06, 2014 07:11 PM            

Then I thought to myself let me talk to her back and forth to see if she realizes this and if she doesn’t try to get her to see this by comparing it to the moon which represents the mother but also how we feel etc....

By interacting with her I realize that she had some interesting things to say and learned from her; she can definitely learn from us too. That is what is cool about this forum we all learn from each other.

posted August 06, 2014 08:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by amelia28:
When I read her post I thought oh she is focusing on exploring a layer of BML, I thought to myself she is approaching the BML from an angle not previously approached and by doing this unlocking a possible new layer of BML.

Then I thought to myself let me talk to her back and forth to see if she realizes this and if she doesn’t try to get her to see this by comparing it to the moon which represents the mother but also how we feel etc....

By interacting with her I realize that she had some interesting things to say and learned from her; she can definitely learn from us too. That is what is cool about this forum we all learn from each other.

It was evident that her thread was exploratory to me. I never thought this was fact.

---

I DO understand your point, Amelia. I started a handful of years younger than she is now, but never conducted myself with such disdain for those with experience far beyond my own. THAT's what got me most of all. It was first about the bad approach (claiming an absolute, factual statement) and then about the sheer disregard and disrespect for anyone who disagreed with her -- or her methodology.

I'm certainly not against putting in the hours to test the theory, but in the dozens of charts I've run, the ones in which I'd expect it would certainly be there don't have it -- and ones where it shouldn't be -- it is. Now, to me, that just shows you're barking up the wrong tree.

It reminds me of a little improv sketch we did awhile back, 'House Astrologer'. It really did oddly illustrate the way how SO many things could be responsible for one single aspect of operation. I don't recall exactly what it was, but, like an episode of 'House', we had the team of astrologers around a whiteboard throwing out all of the possibilities that could be 'causing the problem'. Diagnostics, essentially.

I've seen BML operate as beacon of controversy in too many outlier charts to up and decide 'oh, it's really the dark side of the maternal experience.' Besides, that's why I told her to read Cunningham. I should've mentioned 'The Hades Moon', too; THAT's the experience she's describing.

Is she not even controlling for MOON-PLUTO aspects in these charts? I'd bet you money that's it. Hades Moon is some strong, strong stuff. Not to mention how many of these are PLUTO in SCO natives -- or 8H PLUTO, or 8H MOONers, or SCO MOONers with hard PLUTO aspects ....

posted August 06, 2014 08:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I DO understand your point, Amelia. I started a handful of years younger than she is now, but never conducted myself with such disdain for those with experience far beyond my own. THAT's what got me most of all. It was first about the bad approach (claiming an absolute, factual statement) and then about the sheer disregard and disrespect for anyone who disagreed with her -- or her methodology.

I'm certainly not against putting in the hours to test the theory, but in the dozens of charts I've run, the ones in which I'd expect it would certainly be there don't have it -- and ones where it shouldn't be -- it is. Now, to me, that just shows you're barking up the wrong tree.

It reminds me of a little improv sketch we did awhile back, 'House Astrologer'. It really did oddly illustrate the way how SO many things could be responsible for one single aspect of operation. I don't recall exactly what it was, but, like an episode of 'House', we had the team of astrologers around a whiteboard throwing out all of the possibilities that could be 'causing the problem'. Diagnostics, essentially.

I've seen BML operate as beacon of controversy in too many outlier charts to up and decide 'oh, it's really the dark side of the maternal experience.' Besides, that's why I told her to read Cunningham. I should've mentioned 'The Hades Moon', too; THAT's the experience she's describing.

Is she not even controlling for MOON-PLUTO aspects in these charts? I'd bet you money that's it. Hades Moon is some strong, strong stuff. Not to mention how many of these are PLUTO in SCO natives -- or 8H PLUTO, or 8H MOONers, or SCO MOONers with hard PLUTO aspects ....

So forth and so on.

---

Great insight and input.

posted August 06, 2014 11:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by amelia28:
Great insight and input.

Now I am wishing she would post up those 4 or 5 charts she speaks of and turn this into a learning experience like the improv sketch you speak of 'House Astrologer"! Love it! hahahha great idea......sounds like so much FUN!

---

I'll post their charts here soon. x

posted August 07, 2014 01:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
Oh my god, my boyfriend has BML conjunct SUN and his mother hates my boyfriend's biological father and his stepfather.
She finds both of them entirely repulsive and since my boyfriend looks more like his dad she doesn't find him too attractive.

I have BML square SUN and ASCENDANT

---

I am sorry about your boyfriend's situation. It can be cruel, the BML.

posted August 07, 2014 01:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Stop saying hate so much..

my mother doesn't like my fathers mother.. what would I look for in that?

---

Your father's mother? Means your grand-mother?

I have no idea what planet represents the grandmother.

Maybe it's Saturn idk.

But here I'm just talking about the things I described above. I won't say anything about what I don't know.

Your question about your mother hating your father's mother is kind of too far. I don't think you can tell such specific/far away things.

Next someone's gonna ask "How to see what I'll get for dinner tomorrow?"

or

"My mother doesn't like the new shoes I bought yesterday! Does that mean I have lilith conjunct venus?! If not, I don't believe in this!"

We have to be realistic about astrology.

xx

posted August 07, 2014 02:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Well I thought you were the expert so just thought id ask.
I never said she hated my fathers mother btw. Such a HARSH word!

---

Okay, maybe she doesn't "hate" her, she dislikes her. I'm so sorry that was so stupid of me. Maybe I'm blind or something because I couldn't see such a grand difference between the word "hate" and "dislike".

It just ruined the whole point of my explanation oh my god.

(Sorry about being sarcastic and mean it's my virgo mercury squaring pluto)

I have a solution. Just replace the word "hate" with "dislike" and voila! You'll understand my point.

xx

posted August 07, 2014 02:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenegoddess:
Well I thought you were the expert so just thought id ask.

---

Oh stop it! You're flattering me!

*giggles*

posted August 07, 2014 03:10 AM            

I have 2 older brothers....
My oldest brother, moms 1st child.... his BM exactly sextiles his Moon and is inconjunct his Mars.

So she liked herself but was feeling hatred regarding the anger in the relationship? She was starting to grow up and come into her own ways of thinking which he hated and mistreated her for.

The 2nd older brother, moms 2nd child, his BM is exactly trined his Mars and opposed his Saturn.

A year later she was ok with the anger but hating the control? She was starting to fight back by this time and creating more issues instead of being subservient to him.

posted August 07, 2014 04:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
Your father's mother? Means your grand-mother?

I have no idea what planet represents the grandmother.

Maybe it's Saturn idk.

But here I'm just talking about the things I described above. I won't say anything about what I don't know.

Your question about your mother hating your father's mother is kind of too far. I don't think you can tell such specific/far away things.

Next someone's gonna ask "How to see what I'll get for dinner tomorrow?"

or

"My mother doesn't like the new shoes I bought yesterday! Does that mean I have lilith conjunct venus?! If not, I don't believe in this!"

We have to be realistic about astrology.

xx

---

posted August 07, 2014 04:14 AM            

Should I start listing the SUN conjunct BML population whose mothers don't hate their fathers? Or -- I'm sorry, 'don't hate something about their fathers'? (Because THAT's not a generalised statement if I ever heard one.)

posted August 07, 2014 04:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
My aries BM Lilith makes a grand trine with my saggy Sun/Merc and my leo Saturn, not sure what that means but it doesn't really make any hard aspects except opposed my Karma by 3 degrees but actually that would complete a kite in my chart.
Although it is inconjunct my Mars...

I have 2 older brothers....
My oldest brother, moms 1st child.... his BM exactly sextiles his Moon and is inconjunct his Mars.

So she liked herself but was feeling hatred regarding the anger in the relationship? She was starting to grow up and come into her own ways of thinking which he hated and mistreated her for.

The 2nd older brother, moms 2nd child, his BM is exactly trined his Mars and opposed his Saturn.

A year later she was ok with the anger but hating the control? She was starting to fight back by this time and creating more issues instead of being subservient to him.

By the time I came around she was less focused on him, she says she still loved him but wasn't letting his behavior get to her, she had learned to let his anger roll off her back because she was happy just being a mom.

---

Hi Gabby

This only counts with a conjunction. I've never noticed anything with other aspects. It's usually only conjunctions. xx

posted August 07, 2014 04:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Don't worry, athenegoddess. She's just a child with a new toy. It'll get old. Eventually. Try and ignore her vitriol. If you can.

---

What do you mean? Can you please try to explain? x

posted August 07, 2014 05:02 AM            

I found some interesting things in my cursory glance-through of my 100 top charts. (This is personally biased, as 98% are those I actually know.)

• BML conjunct a luminary is extremely rare. Of the 100, it only appeared in 7.

• Of the four charts with BML conjunct SUN (maximum orb 3°), three are male; of two, their parents are married and reported to be 'very much in love'. The third is a child of divorce; the bias was from the father towards the mother.

• Of the three with BML conjunct MOON (also max orb 3°), one was female; her parents have been married for forty years, and, like the two men with SUN conjunct BML, are said to be very much -- rather, exceptionally, in love. She hasn't reported her mother to be insecure or unconfident. Of the other two: one lost his father in his adolescence; his mother has been a strong, independent and self-sufficient individual up into her late 70s. The other's mother is also a confident, outgoing, an well-adjusted woman. There is a healthy emotionality amongst the family members.

• What appeared most frequently was BML conjunct AMOR. This was in over a dozen charts; the sex spread was close to even, and the ages range from those born in 1955 to 1987.

• Appearing slightly more frequently than BML/luminary was BML conjunct PLUTO. Again, even spread, but even wider range in age: 1925 to 1992. Sometimes, this overlapped the luminary conjunction (as was the case in 4 charts).

• Next to appear was BML conjunct MARS; apx. 3 charts. Even spread; wide age.

• Following it was BML conjunct JUPITER; apx 5 charts. Slightly favouring women. Wide age range.

• BML conjunct JUNO was seen in 4 charts; mostly men.

• BML was occasionally seen with URANUS; 3 charts. Mostly men. Predominantly from 1979-1983.

Most frequently, BML was a singleton, weakly aspecting a personal point (VEN, MERC, MARS) or outer (URA, PLUTO) or JUPITER.

I'm concluding from this exploratory research, that BML conjunct SUN or MOON is a rare statistical event when viewed in context of relationship to a SUN conjunct BML (and PLUTO) native.

I'll hypothesise the reason for this discrepancy may be the strong-willed, forceful and independent nature of BML. It's likely to produce too strong of a reaction which leads to confrontation.

The only time these appeared in my database, they belonged to men, were conjunct MOON or SUN (one of each), and share a significant personal relationship (one a close and intimate but strictly platonic friendship, the other an intense sexual relationship with a friendship basis).

I did not control for sign, so it was not noted. Of the four Solar-BML individuals, three were in Libra, with the remaining one in Cancer.

Of the Lunar-BML, one was in Scorpio, another Aries; the female's was in Aquarius.

posted August 07, 2014 05:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
So ...

Should I start listing the SUN conjunct BML population whose mothers don't hate their fathers? Or -- I'm sorry, 'don't hate something about their fathers'? (Because THAT's not a generalised statement if I ever heard one.)

I'd be more than happy to do so.

---

Of course I don't mean something specific about their fathers. It's general but it can be any reason! It can be either because of their looks which is most of the time the case, it can be their personality.

Of course I didn't mean by "something" like their father's hairstyle.

Don't underestimate me because I have mercury in virgo exalted and square pluto. I'm not just making things up.

As far as I've seen, everyone (except you of course) who have lilith conjunct their sun have this problem.

I don't need your remarks anymore because it's never going to change my mind. I believe in what I see.

posted August 07, 2014 05:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MiaPluto:
As far as I've seen, everyone (except you of course) who have lilith conjunct their sun have this problem.

---

Then your data is skewed. You'd be a fool not to revise your theory and its methods.

In other words, quit waving your toy around before you break something. Instead, try and do something useful. Accept you made an error, find where the error was made, and try again.

And, please, get off your high horse; it's impressing no one and only reflects poorly upon you, and makes those who're desperately trying to be polite, very uncomfortable.

posted August 07, 2014 05:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
All right.

I found some interesting things in my cursory glance-through of my 100 top charts. (This is personally biased, as 98% are those I actually know.)

• BML conjunct a luminary is extremely rare. Of the 100, it only appeared in 7.

• Of the four charts with BML conjunct SUN (maximum orb 3°), three are male; of two, their parents are married and reported to be 'very much in love'. The third is a child of divorce; the bias was from the father towards the mother.

• Of the three with BML conjunct MOON (also max orb 3°), one was female; her parents have been married for forty years, and, like the two men with SUN conjunct BML, are said to be very much -- rather, exceptionally, in love. She hasn't reported her mother to be insecure or unconfident. Of the other two: one lost his father in his adolescence; his mother has been a strong, independent and self-sufficient individual up into her late 70s. The other's mother is also a confident, outgoing, an well-adjusted woman. There is a healthy emotionality amongst the family members.

• What appeared most frequently was BML conjunct AMOR. This was in over a dozen charts; the sex spread was close to even, and the ages range from those born in 1955 to 1987.

• Appearing slightly more frequently than BML/luminary was BML conjunct PLUTO. Again, even spread, but even wider range in age: 1925 to 1992. Sometimes, this overlapped the luminary conjunction (as was the case in 4 charts).

• Next to appear was BML conjunct MARS; apx. 3 charts. Even spread; wide age.

• Following it was BML conjunct JUPITER; apx 5 charts. Slightly favouring women. Wide age range.

• BML conjunct JUNO was seen in 4 charts; mostly men.

• BML was occasionally seen with URANUS; 3 charts. Mostly men. Predominantly from 1979-1983.

Most frequently, BML was a singleton, weakly aspecting a personal point (VEN, MERC, MARS) or outer (URA, PLUTO) or JUPITER.

I'm concluding from this exploratory research, that BML conjunct SUN or MOON is a rare statistical event when viewed in context of relationship to a SUN conjunct BML (and PLUTO) native.

I'll hypothesise the reason for this discrepancy may be the strong-willed, forceful and independent nature of BML. It's likely to produce too strong of a reaction which leads to confrontation.

The only time these appeared in my database, they belonged to men, were conjunct MOON, and share a significant personal relationship (one a close and intimate but strictly platonic friendship, the other an intense sexual relationship with a friendship basis).

I did not control for sign, so it was not noted. Of the four Solar-BML individuals, three were in Libra, with the remaining one in Cancer.

Of the Lunar-BML, one was in Scorpio, another Aries; the female's was in Aquarius.

Hopefully that sheds some light and provides direction.

---

OMFG. I think that you never understood then what I meant by BML.

My friend, and her sister, who both have BML conjunct their sun, both their parents are still married too, and if you'll ask them, of course they'll say they love each other. You just didn't understand the nature of BML!

Even tho they are married couple, the mother find the father bad-looking for some reason and doesn't like his few habits. But I never said the parents had to be divorced or don't love each other. I meant to say that there's something about the father that repulses the mother.

And don't you think it's a sensitive subject to ask someone if they hate their husband's looks or their own? What do you expect them to reply?

The lady who's both children have lilith conjunct them moon, in that case, the lady of course appears to be perfectly confident. She's sociable and everything. But she has inner insecurity. She never liked her looks and didn't want her children to be like her.

That's her children had BML with moon.

I don't know from which planet you got these results, but I've always found truth in this and so did my clients agreed too.

Turning astrology into mathematics? Ridiculous.

posted August 07, 2014 05:18 AM            

Good-bye, Mia. And in case you haven't noticed, THERE IS SOMETHING THAT REPULSES SOMEONE IN EVERYONE.

You'll realise that generality someday. When you're older and have real life experience. You don't have enough to be criticising ANYONE here. If you honestly think you do, I'm embarrassed for you.

You are a spoilt child and no longer worth my time. You're pretentious, delusional, and determined to force your experience upon everyone else's external reality. Especially when it's fabricated and totally subjective.

Please don't call yourself an astrologer until you actually become one. If that's what you want to be when you grow up, you've got a long, hard road, princess.

posted August 07, 2014 05:27 AM            

thank you for your very interesting exploratory research.

posted August 07, 2014 05:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I'm hitting the IGNORE button.

Good-bye, Mia.

You are a spoilt child and no longer worth my time. You're pretentious, delusional, and determined to force your experience upon everyone else's external reality. Especially when it's fabricated and totally subjective.

Please don't call yourself an astrologer until you actually become one. If that's what you want to be when you grow up, you've got a long, hard road, princess.

Good riddance, and bonne nuit.

---

Wait, when the **** did I force my opinions one anyone?

I keep repeating that you don't have to believe if you don't want. I really don't give a **** whether you believe it or not. I'm cool with it.

You're the one telling me I'm delusional, judging me by my age, etc. You're the one saying it's not true. You're the one forcing people to NOT believe it. People have their own brains and they can decide if they want to or not.

I don't need you to tell me who I am because I know already. Thank you.

I would be glad if you'd stop replying actually. Let's hope this will be your last post on my thread this time.

BYE.