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Author Topic:   Moirai in the Composite: Klotho, Lachesis, Atropos
LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 10:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I’ve been playing with the Moirai in the composite chart as predictors of the general fate of the relationship.

Asteroids:
Klotho 97
Lachesis 120
Atropos 273

Wikipedia:
In Greek mythology, the Moirai (Ancient Greek: Μοῖραι, "apportioners", Latinized as Moerae)—often known in English as the Fates—were the white-robed incarnations of destiny (Roman equivalent: Parcae, euphemistically the "sparing ones", or Fata; also analogous to the Germanic Norns). Their number became fixed at three: Clotho (spinner), Lachesis (allotter) and Atropos (unturnable).
They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death. They were independent, at the helm of necessity, directed fate, and watched that the fate assigned to every being by eternal laws might take its course without obstruction. The gods and men had to submit to them, but in the case of Zeus he is portrayed in two ways: as the only one who can command them (the Zeus Moiragetes) or as the one who is also bound to the Moiras as incarnation of the fates.

The three Moirai:
Clotho (/ˈkloʊθoʊ/, Greek Κλωθώ [klɔːˈtʰɔː] – "spinner") spun the thread of life from her distaff onto her spindle. Her Roman equivalent was Nona, (the 'Ninth'), who was originally a goddess called upon in the ninth month of pregnancy.
Lachesis (/ˈlækɨsɪs/, Greek Λάχεσις [ˈlakʰesis] – "allotter" or drawer of lots) measured the thread of life allotted to each person with her measuring rod. Her Roman equivalent was Decima (the 'Tenth').
Atropos (/ˈætrəpɒs/, Greek Ἄτροπος [ˈatropos] – "inexorable" or "inevitable", literally "unturning",[16] sometimes called Aisa) was the cutter of the thread of life. She chose the manner of each person's death; and when their time was come, she cut their life-thread with "her abhorred shears".[17] Her Roman equivalent was Morta ('Death').

In the Composite and Davison,

Klotho shows the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the relationship, either auspicious or not, and a little story about how the relationship started. In comparison with natals, it might show how this beginning affected each native and how important the relationship could become for him/her.

Lachesis is a predictor of the general duration and consistency of the relationship. So far, Lachesis in composites of long term couples lies in “stability” sign and houses (for example fixed signs) or receives durability aspects (from Saturn, for example).

Atropos speaks about the general circumstances surrounding the possible ending of the relationship. Long-term couples surviving into old age often show Atropos connected with the natural order of things (for one partner): 8th house, Pluto. Atropos on ASC/DSC, MC or NN seems to point to a rather short-lived relationship. Atropos can also be connected to turning points in the relationship, not necessarily the general ending.

If you’re interested in the subject, please share your Composites/Davison to verify these findings.

Moira 638 by house/sign/aspects shows where the two will face fated, inescapable events. It adds to the general prediction of the relationship. The more prominent Moira is, the more significant the relationship.

All four very aspected in Composite with personal planets and angles show a common destiny.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 11:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Charles and Camilla Composite

EDIT: wrong time for Charles in the first Composite. Thank you, Orange! It looks like my little theory could be discredited, but don't dismiss it yet

It gets better in the "real" composite:

Klotho in Sagittarius 5th house (apparently met at a polo game) conjunct Jupiter opp. Moon trine ASC sextile DSC.

Lachesis in Leo/on ASC opp. Juno.

Atropos conjunct Chiron and Moira in the 4th very well aspected with Lilith Pluto Mars and Mercury.

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Tulipe
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posted April 14, 2014 12:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder why it's fixed at number three. Where we have these three in our composite/Davison is where we must surrender to fate then.

In Composite, we have:

Klotho the 'spinner' at 5 CAP in 11th, quincunx Moon in 6th exact and sextile Pluto in 9th exact.
Klotho conjunct Neptune widely, sextile Lachesis.
About the first meeting, it happened at the campus where he get lost and I'm the only person in sight who was crazy enough to go for a walk there.

Lachesis 'alotter' is at 8.5 SCORPIO conjunct MC 11 SCORPIO.
Lachesis also widely conjunct Pluto in 9th, square Moon and ASC.

Atropos the 'inevitable', 'unpredictable' is at 16 SAG in 11th conjunct Uranus(coincidence?) 16 SAG/Mercury 15 SAG/Sun 15 SAG/Lucifer 16SAG/Karma 17SAG. Atropos/Lucifer is also on the Midpoint of Sun and Venus.
Atropos also trine Jupiter in 7th exact, quincunx North Node in 4th, loosely oppose Chiron in 5th.

I don't know how to interpret composite Klotho and the first meeting because I found no connection with it to our natal, but Lacheis and Atropos seem to point to conflicting themes, to be or not to be?

In the Davison, which is the Composite with Angles reserved:

Klotho 19 CANCER quincunx Vertex 17 SAG

Lacheis 12 TAURUS conjunct MC 11 TAURUS

Atropos Retro 18 SAG conjunct Vertex 17 SAG/ Uranus Retro/Karma 16 SAG; opposite Sun/Mercury 16 GEM.

Again this conflicting theme, but is Atropos the outcome? Lucifer and Karma also are prominent in those charts, is Atropos show the karma and inherent power in the charts here or even karma and power must bound to fate?

I remember having checked Moira in our composite, conjunct Briede 1 degree and trine Groom 1 degree. Have asteroid Moira any connection to the three fate asteroids?

------------------
what goes up must come
down, so when you're
feeling down, the only
way to be is up

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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 12:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting subject!


I am using two composites/ Davison (one with Mr Law, one with Mr Sag) and you can guess which belongs to whom.


I
A) composite
---------------

MOIRA on 12 Aquarius in 2nd house:
conjunct Jupiter on 14 Aquarius
conjunct BRIEDE on 11 Aquarius
conjunct GROOM on 10 Aquarius

Sabian: A Barometer


LACHESIS On 25 Pisces, intercepted in 3rd:
conjunct KAALI on 25 Pisces
square SIVA on 27 Sagittarius
square Venus on 24 Sagittarius

Sabian:
Watching The Very Thin Moon Crescent Appearing At Sunset, Different People Realize That The Time Has Come To Go Ahead With Their Different Projects

KLOTHO on 5 Sagittarius in 12th house
conjunct HERA on 5 Sagittarius
conjunct NEptune and ASC on 8 Sagittarius
square PHOLUS on 4 Pisces

trine INANNA on 4 ARies, 2 degr before IC
semisextile ADONIS on 5 Scorpio in 11th


Sabian:
A Game Of Cricket

ATROPOS on 21 Scorpio in 11th house (conj. 12th house cusp by one degree, and actually EXACTLY on my natal 12th house cusp)

opposite EROS on 20 Taurus in 5th house
trine PROSERPINA on 21 Pisces in 3rd


Sabian:
Hunters Shooting Wild Ducks

Davison:
------------
MOIRA on 9 Leo in 1st house
opposite Venus on 9 Aquarius in 7th
opposite BRIEDE on 9 Aquarius in 7th
trine Neptune on 8 Sag in 5th
widely trine KLOTHO on 7 Sag in 5th

Sabian
Early Morning Dew Sparkles As Sunlight Floods The Field

LACHESIS on 18 Pisces in 9th house
trine ATROPOS

Sabian:
A Master Instructing His Disciple

square GUINEVERE on 18 Sag in 5th
(opp my n Karma, conj. his Karma)


KLOTHO on 7 Sag in 5th house (on the exact degree of my natal ASC)

conjunct ARTHUR on 7 Sag in 5th
conjunct Neptune on 8 Sag in 5th
conjunct HERA on 5 Sag in 5th
trine APHRODITE on 7 Leo in 1st
square UNION on 8 Virgo n 2nd

sextile Pluto on 6 Libra in 4th
sextile PROSERPINA on 6 Libra in 4th
sextile VESTA on 6 Libra in 4th
sextile IC on 6 Libra
sextile LANCELOT on 5 Libra

Sabian:
Within The Depths Of The Earth New Elements Are Being Formed


ATROPOS:
20 Scorpio in 5th house

quinkunx AMOR on 20 Aries in 10th
trine LACHESIS


Sabian:
Obeying His Conscience, A Soldier Resists Orders


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Orange
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From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2014 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
why would an aspect of Atropos and the Nodes in the Composite point to a short lived relationship?

I am looking at a Composite with a crush, and Atropos is dead on (no pun) the South Node, like 0.07 orb..

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

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From: Death Star
Registered: Nov 2012

posted April 14, 2014 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ceri, have I told you you're my favorite psychofan? It's so cool you got Mr. Sag's data. Now you can play with his chart to death

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

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From: Death Star
Registered: Nov 2012

posted April 14, 2014 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My celeb crush:

Klotho - 12th house, opposite Sun...hell yeah!

Lachesis - 8th house, conjunct Mars (widely), square Jupiter bla bla

Atropos in the 10th...Not sure what to think about it.

Moira in the 7th conjunct SN and Vertex widishly, opposite Moon and Pluto...Yes, my basement is ready!


------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 12:39 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
II.

MOIRA: 3 Sagittarius in 11th house
Sabian: A Little Child Learning To Walk With The Encouragement Of His Parents
(conj. my natal AMor)


conjunct TYCHE on 1 Sag in 11th
conjunct GUINEVERE on 3 Sag in 11th
sextile KLOTHO
square VESTA-HERA on 2 Pisces in 1st


LACHESIS: 6 Taurus in 3rd
Sabian: The Woman Of Samaria At The Ancestral Well

opposite LANCELOT in 4 Scorpio in 9th
sqare KLOTHO
quinkunx APHRODITE in 5 Libra

KLOTHO: 4 Aquarius in 1st house
Sabian: A Council Of Ancestors Is Seen Implementing Thee Efforts Of A Young Leader

loosely conjunct ASC on 1 Aquarius
trine APHRODITE on 5 Libra in 8th
square LANCELOT on 4 Scorpio in 9th
sextile GUINEVRE on 3 Sag in 11th

ATROPOS: 00 Taurus in 3rd
(on my 5th house cusp, opp Uranus)

Sabian: A Clear Mountain Stream

conjunct Chiron on 29 Aries in 3rd
opposite UNION on 29 Libra in 9th
trine DESTINN on 29 Leo in 7th
trine PERSEPHONE on 28 Leo n 7th


---------------------------------

DAVISON

MOIRA: 1 Gemini in 4th
Sabian: Santa Claus Furtively Filling Stockings Hanging In Front Of Fireplace


LACHESIS:4 Scorpio in 9th
Sabian: A Massive Rocky Shore Resist The Pounding Of The Sea

opposite Chiron on 4 Taurus in 3rd
sextile EROS on 3 Cap in 12th
trine PROSERPINA on 4 Cancer in 6th
trine TYCHE on 2 Cancer in 6th
trine ADAM on 4 Pisces in 1st
sextile EVA on 6 Virgo in 7th


KLOTHO: 20 Virgo in 8th
Sabian: A Girls' Basketball Team

opposite PHOLUS on 19 Pisces in 2nd
quinkunx LUST on 19 Aries in 3rd
quinkunx APHRODITE and SN on 21 Aries in 3rd
trine GUINEVERE on 17 Taurus on IC
(and my natal name asteroid. lol)


ATROPOS: 13 Virgo in 8th
(on my n Persephone)

Sabian: An Aristocratic Family Tree


sextile JUNO on 15 Scorpio,
square Neptune on 14 Sag in 11th
square Mercury on 14 Gemini in 5th
trine ASC on 13 Capricorn
conjunct PSYCHE and ADONIS On 10 Virgo in 8th
quinkunx LANCELOT on 13 Aries in 2nd
quinkunx ERIS on 14 aries in 2nd
semisextile ARTHUR on 14 Leo in 7th


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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 12:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Ceri, have I told you you're my favorite psychofan? It's so cool you got Mr. Sag's data. Now you can play with his chart to death


I take offence with the name: Psychfan. Seriously.


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Orange
Knowflake

Posts: 7234
From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2014 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
why would an aspect of Atropos and the Nodes in the Composite point to a short lived relationship?

I am looking at a Composite with a crush, and Atropos is dead on (no pun) the South Node, like 0.07 orb..


ok, I just checked my astro database...the only couple that I found to have the Atropos to Node conjunction in the Composite is Prince Charles and Camilla, as well as Kim and Kanye.
That Atropos business doesn't match the interpretaions, y'all.
pfew!


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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 12:56 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
why would an aspect of Atropos and the Nodes in the Composite point to a short lived relationship?

I am looking at a Composite with a crush, and Atropos is dead on (no pun) the South Node, like 0.07 orb..


I need to change this a bit in the OP>
I've noticed so far in short or unrequited composites - Atropos on ASC/DSC, MC or NN. (but I don't have hundreds of examples, necessary for significant statistical results).

I think Atropos on the SN doesn't necessarily mean a short relationship, because the SN is practically the beginning of the relationship. So it's either the relationship doesn't start at all, or it starts as a turning point, or related to a turning point.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 01:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:

pfew!


I second that

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
ok, I just checked my astro database...the only couple that I found to have the Atropos to Node conjunction in the Composite is Prince Charles and Camilla, as well as Kim and Kanye.
That Atropos business doesn't match the interpretaions, y'all.
pfew!


Yes, it does,I think it does
But we're talking about the "proactive" angles, the ones related to the future of the relationship. It was my mistake to include all angles and nodes.
It makes sense, because if you have the "ending" as the crown of the chart - the MC...where's the future in that?
Both my ex-relationships have Atropos on MC If only I knew beforehand...

I'll post some celebrity examples later on, short or unrequited composites with Atropos on proactive angles and NN. You'll see!

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first one must be Jude
I'll check both examples thoroughly

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
My celeb crush:

Klotho - 12th house, opposite Sun...hell yeah!

Lachesis - 8th house, conjunct Mars (widely), square Jupiter bla bla

Atropos in the 10th...Not sure what to think about it.

Moira in the 7th conjunct SN and Vertex widishly, opposite Moon and Pluto...Yes, my basement is ready!


Atropos in the 10th: long-term relationship (if not on MC)

The one in the fist pic is your celebrity crush? Hm...apparently you appreciate intelligence in a man...

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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 01:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I need to change this a bit in the OP>
I've noticed so far in short or unrequited composites - Atropos on ASC/DSC, MC or NN. (but I don't have hundreds of examples, necessary for significant statistical results).

I think Atropos on the SN doesn't necessarily mean a short relationship, because the SN is practically the beginning of the relationship. So it's either the relationship doesn't start at all, or it starts as a turning point, or related to a turning point.



Well, I just checked my parents composite (married for 40 years, never separated, very stable, inseparable couple).

ATROPOS on ASC:

actually in their composite it is
ASC: 16.28 Leo
ATROPOS: 17.59 Leo
Pluto: 19.20 Leo


it is trine Sun on 19 Sag in 5th, too, maybe that helped?

my best friend and her husband (together for 14 years, married for 9, similiar vibe to my parents actually. lol)

ATROPOS on 9 Cancer conjunct IC on 10 Cancer (her ASC).

square Pluto on 11 LIbra on DESC.

Maybe founding a family was inevitable for them?

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Well, I just checked my parents composite (married for 40 years, never separated, very stable, inseparable couple).

ATROPOS on ASC:

actually in their composite it is
ASC: 16.28 Leo
ATROPOS: 17.59 Leo
Pluto: 19.20 Leo


it is trine Sun on 19 Sag in 5th, too, maybe that helped?

my best friend and her husband (together for 14 years, married for 9, similiar vibe to my parents actually. lol)

ATROPOS on 9 Cancer conjunct IC on 10 Cancer (her ASC).

square Pluto on 11 LIbra on DESC.

Maybe founding a family was inevitable for them?


Interesting. Then that must be some other explanation also.

What about Lachesis in these two examples?

Also, is Atropos very aspected or just sitting there on the ASC? Because if it makes many aspects, it becomes a glue, not a separative element, I think.

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Tulipe
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posted April 14, 2014 01:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
edit

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tulipe:
Looking at this composite makes me confused. The planets don't make any planetery pattern, so where is the famous glue? Is it the T-square on the 9th/3rd and 6th/12th axis and composite Vertex conjunct DSC tightly? Composite Mars in 12th has issue with anger being exploded abruptly, how can they survive this long??



It must be Lachesis...just kiddin'
Saturn conjunct Vesta (and Venus): very committed relationship, almost unbreakable, IMO.
But I'll think about it more.

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Ceridwen
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posted April 14, 2014 01:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Interesting. Then that must be some other explanation also.

What about Lachesis in these two examples?

Also, is Atropos very aspected or just sitting there on the ASC? Because if it makes many aspects, it becomes a glue, not a separative element, I think.


my parents:

ATROPOS:
conjunct Pluto
trine Sun (1)

that`s it though


LACHESIS: 29 Cap 6th
conjunct PHOLUS
trine Saturn


my friends:

ATROPOS:
square Pluto
trine Venus
sextile Jupiter


LACHESIS: 5 Virgo 5th
sextile Venus and Uranus
square Mercury


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Orange
Knowflake

Posts: 7234
From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2014 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tulipe:
Looking at this composite makes me confused. The planets don't make any planetery pattern, so where is the famous glue? Is it the T-square on the 9th/3rd and 6th/12th axis and composite Vertex conjunct DSC tightly? Composite Mars in 12th has issue with anger being exploded abruptly, how can they survive this long??


this is NOT their Composite chart, what you posted

Prince Charles is born 9:14 PM, not a.m. per Astro data bank

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
my parents:

ATROPOS:
conjunct Pluto
trine Sun (1)

that`s it though


LACHESIS: 29 Cap 6th
conjunct PHOLUS
trine Saturn


my friends:

ATROPOS:
square Pluto
trine Venus
sextile Jupiter


LACHESIS: 5 Virgo 5th
sextile Venus and Uranus
square Mercury


This makes more sense, because Atropos connected with Pluto or the 8th house already showed in couple surviving into old age (I guess it shows that the end of the relationship comes with the natural order of things). Trining the Sun (the relationship) also suggest an ongoing, flowing evolution of things, not an abrupt ending.

Lachesis is very well aspected for a long-term relationship: in Capricorn, 6th house, connected with Saturn.

Atropos very well aspected in the second example too, suggesting a "favorable' ending.

Lachesis in Virgo and 5th - good for stability. Receiving beneficial aspects from Venus and Uranus. However, a Mercury square doesn't favor a very, very long term relationship. Maybe Mercury for them has a different meaning, like they traveled a lot, keeping things fresh, thus prolonging the relationship, or is actually a "glue" in the framework of their relationship.

I do, however, need to reconsider Atropos on ASC, I need more examples. It doesn't seem to point to a short relationship after all.

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Orange
Knowflake

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From: Georgia
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2014 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I do, however, need to reconsider Atropos on ASC, I need more examples. It doesn't seem to mean a short relationship after all.


^^^^

and per my two examples above, neither is the conjunction to the Nodes..well, at least not the South Node, like you pointed out before. Charles and Camilla have Atropos on the South Node in the Composite.
Kim and Kanye have the North Node on Atropos, but it's a 4 degree orb..

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:
this is NOT their Composite chart, what you posted

Prince Charles is born 9:14 PM, not a.m. per Astro data bank


Thank you, Orange, for pointing that out. My "Charles" was a morning bird in my database, wrongly.

Sorry everyone!

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LeeLoo2014
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posted April 14, 2014 01:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Orange:

^^^^

and per my two examples above, neither is the conjunction to the Nodes..well, at least not the South Node, like you pointed out before. Charles and Camilla have Atropos on the South Node in the Composite.
Kim and Kanye have the North Node on Atropos, but it's a 4 degree orb..

I am now fascinated to interped the conjunction of Atropos to the South Node in my Composite, such a mysterious combination, especially whith such an exact orb of conjunction...thinking that where is an end, there is a new beginning as well..Looks like a sudden separation in a past life by death to me.
Atropos/South Node conjunction is squaring the Moon/ Lachesis conjunction; Moon rules the IC. hhmm...


Where is Lachesis? And what aspects?
Also, are you together? for how long?

On another note, who says "Kim and Kanye" will have a long relationship?

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