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Author Topic:   Venus/Chiron contacts in synastry indicating marriage???
SagSun
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posted November 05, 2007 09:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The other day I took a closer look at the synastry chart of several couples I know, most of which have been married for over 30 years. The one aspect that showed up in 90% of the charts I looked at was a contact between Venus and Chiron.

Is this just a coincidence or do Venus/Chiron contacts between two people really favor marriage??? Of course, other aspects indicating attraction have to be present as well to make for a rewarding and successful relationship, but it seems that it is the Venus/Chiron contact that makes the difference. What do you think???

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Maire31
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posted November 05, 2007 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maire31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Serendipity...

I was checking out the Venus/Pluto thread and I've been wondering about Venus/Chiron as well.

Do the couples you looked at with long marriages have conjunctions or is it mixed? You see my bf has Venus 11 Virgo conjunct my Pluto 10 Virgo PLUS his Venus OPPOSES my Chiron 12 Pisces. We are having a terribly difficult time in our relationship and a week ago I asked him not to call me anymore as it only confuses me...he's been running HOT then COLD since the end of August. I miss him already, but I still think it's about the only thing I can do to protect myself.

I don't mean to hijack your thread SagSun, I'm just struggling for clearer insights...

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SagSun
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posted November 05, 2007 11:42 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The charts I looked at had mainly conjunctions, trines and sextiles between Venus and Chiron. I think I recall one couple who had an opposition as well, I'm not sure though. I really like the idea of Chiron healing Venus. And Venus/Chiron contacts seem to occur so often between marriage partners that I don't think it is just a coincidence.

But I agree, Venus/Pluto contacts are very intense as well. Especially when there are also other aspects that indicate attraction. My special someone's Venus trines my Chiron, my Venus conjuncts his Pluto AND his Venus squares my Pluto. So, things are intense between us...

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darkdreamer
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posted November 05, 2007 12:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the magis would be happy about your findings.

They claim the Venus-chiron-enhancement (conjunction, trine, parallel and contraparallel and the quinkunx, too) is the magical linkage, almost a sure-sign of attraction and love, which very often leads to marriage.

DD

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annaf
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posted November 05, 2007 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for annaf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is the square problematic? Unfortunately I'm not really that familiar with venu-chiron aspects in synastry.

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lovegoblin
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posted November 05, 2007 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a venus/chiron opposition with so.
We have been having a confusing time as well. I am the venus-its been hot and cold and i'm tired of it.

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darkdreamer
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posted November 05, 2007 01:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WEll, in Magi astrology the square and opposition of Venus and Chiron is called the "impossible dream" clash.
It shows that there is a huge amount of attraction, often one that never fades away, but that it`s very complicated and difficult to get the relationship going. It`s one up and down, and very exhausting; an emotional and romantic rollercoaster-ride.

Well, my parents have this one, too, but despite the rollercoaster-times they have been married for 33 years now! So, there`s still hope for those with this aspect.

DD

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lovegoblin
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posted November 05, 2007 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD-

You give me hope, but god knows i am weary.

Who holds more power in this particular aspect? chiron or venus or both (?)
the chiron aspects are always a little confusing to me.

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Maire31
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posted November 05, 2007 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maire31     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm, well at least I feel validated, lol. Wow DD, that description sounds really spot on! There have been different periods during our relationship where each of us admitted having the thought we should take a break or something but we just couldn't. I broke things off, very amicably right after that solar eclipse in mid September...we saw each other briefly a week later, talked once a week, and by the beginning of October we reconnected. He professed how much he missed me, loved me, knew we'd be back in each other's lives ( I reciprocated the feelings as well)...it was really nice. Then we slipped right back to the once a week contact again!!!! Must have been that full moon (in my 8th) that gave me verbal diarrhea by last Monday, hahaha. We talked for two hours on the phone and I just told him I couldn't take it anymore - the hot/cold stuff. So that's when I told him not to call me anymore - each reconnect was so electric, I couldn't deal with the spark that kept re-igniting and then the empty space in between. We ended the call telling each other 'I love you'. That was it. Today is exactly one week. I don't even know if time will help...it didn't last month. Maybe this time will be different? Thanks for letting me vent...

**edit Thought I might add his Pluto(8th) is opposite my Sun and his Uranus trines my Venus! I just know these can't help, lol! Our synastry is pretty powerful, as is our composite - OH! Comp Mars squares Uranus, sigh

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SagSun
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posted November 05, 2007 02:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not a big fan of Magi Astrology. They are a tad too fatalistic for my taste. Like for instance what they say about the Saturn/Chiron contraparallels, squares and oppositions. They call it the "Heartbreak Clash" and say that when you have this one with someone the relationship is pretty much doomed ... I mean, come on ... both Saturn and Chiron take so long to move through a sign that you'd have that aspect with everyone born within, say, 6-7 months of that year.

But back to the Venus/Chiron contacts now ... except for Magi Astrology I've heard from several sources that those contacts are very favorable.

Some of the interpretations I found on the internet:

Cafeastrology.com

quote:
These aspects are powerful indeed. Look for the conjunction, trine, and sextile, in particular, as an indicator of true love. There is a healing quality to the relationship—one in which the natives feel that the love they have can heal the wounds they might have accumulated in relationships past. These people feel a strong need to be together, set up house together, and go the distance with each other. There can be a true feeling of joy in the love they share with one another. When the aspect is challenging, however, there can be irrational behavior and reactions to each other that are based on wounds of the past, carried forward into the present relationship.

Astro Writer Report

quote:
Together X and Y have opportunities to heal the painful experiences of previous relationships and forge a strong and loving bond. This is an important union. When an intimate bond is formed, the love can soothe emotional pain and bring a sense of freedom and joy. On the other hand it can also reinforce a person's wounds, sending them into emotional turmoil and forming negative relationship patterns. In this case X and Y have a chance to overcome their old relationing habits through their love for each other. They may even help each other view their childhood experiences in a different light. This is true whether they are lovers or friends. X's [Venus person] love is particularly soothing for Y [Chiron person], encouraging them to discover new talents. In return Y [Chiron person] teaches X [Venus person] the benefits of a warm and loving relationship.

Astrosoftware.com

quote:
You are instinctively drawn to each other and being together touches you in a very vulnerable way. As a result you will automatically help each other to heal any wounds around love from past relationships. You will learn a lot about loving from being together. The physical side of your relationship will be important in expressing your love for each other.

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lovegoblin
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posted November 05, 2007 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah, but it doesn't mention the
square and/or opposition.

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EighthMoon
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posted November 05, 2007 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EighthMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Sag Sun...

Came across this site and thought I'd post the Chiron info for ya.

"Interaspects involving Chiron are actually
THE FIRST aspects I look for
between two people. There is so
much rich information of the outcome possibilities here.
The first two connections to look for
are Chiron to Venus and Chiron to Saturn.

If Chiron makes an aspect to Venus -
especially a conjunction or trine or
a declinational connection -
then you have a great chance at getting married.


The Magi Society likes to keep orbs tight - like 3° -
but personally I've seen it work up to 5° or more.
(Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes have this trine aspect at 4 1/2 degrees)
It's just that the tighter the orb the better the possibility - and a fated feeling that this was supposed to happen.

Now, if you have Chiron square or
opposite Venus, well, this is a different story.
You actually may be compelled to marry each other,
but, it's based on fantasy rather than reality.
It's what the Magi Society calls "the impossible dream".
You just can't seem to live up to the
impossible expectations you have for each other
and for the marriage. I know a couple who have both
of these aspects - her Chiron is opposite his Venus,
and his Chiron was square to her Venus,
and now they are going through a divorce -
as two very disillusioned people.
So my advice would be to really think this over
and have many " reality check" type conversations
about what you both expect from the marriage
if you have either of these aspects.

The next in line to look for is, are there any squares, oppositions, or inconjuncts (150) to Chiron from Saturn. Also look in the declinations for a connection. BAD NEWS. These rarely end in a long term commitment, and if they do, it definitely isn't happily ever after. This is called the HEARTBREAK aspect. Conjunctions aren't the worse thing but the one who is the Saturn person holds the cards in that relationship. Trines in my opinion are not horrible, they may even denote a steadfast relationship. But overall, be on the lookout for hard aspects from Saturn to Chiron. You will need some harmonious aspects to Chiron to balance this one out.

Next on my list is to look for harmonious aspects from Jupiter and Neptune to Chiron. These add a special quality to a relationship. If you had Chiron in harmonious aspect to either of these two and you didn't have any hard challenging aspects with Saturn (Neptune, Uranus, or Pluto), then your relationship is blessed and has great potential to be long term. And again, you can look to the declinations for connections too !!!

Now for the other lookouts.
If you have challenging aspects from
Uranus, Neptune or Pluto to Chiron
there could be trouble up ahead.
Especially if you don't have any harmonious aspects.
Uranus is sure to add instability,
and the possibility of a sudden break up.
Neptune in this case lacks long term ability - erodes over time.
With Pluto, you once again
you have those troublesome power struggles and issues. NOthing is carved in stone. These are just the best case and worse case scenarios.
But i truly believe that the aspects made to Chiron show a strong possibility of what the outcome will be.

The more negative outcomes are even more "fated" if the two people in question refuse to work on their own issues, and the issues in the relationship. Many people refuse to change, or receive guidance because they are afraid to be wrong.

There are many couples out there that had both the harmonious and the more detrimental aspects. Many of these relationships lasted for quite a while, and some went on to get married, BUT, when there was a hard TRANSITING aspect from Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto to the couples more difficult aspects - especially to any involving Chiron, those issues were brought out to the forefront. This is when communication, therapy, and a lot of compromise is needed to get through - and many times they don't make it."

http://www.astro-de-la-soul.com/astrologicalcompatibility.html


8th

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SagSun
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posted November 06, 2007 03:38 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you EighthMoon for putting this up!!!

I'm still not convinced about their Chiron/Saturn theories, though. Both planets move so slow that you'd have that aspect with everyone born within a year or so. I don't like the concept that you can't be with anyone born within a certain year simply because of the Chiron/Saturn clash. I mean, what if you have Chiron opposite Saturn natally ... does this mean you can't be with someone who was born in the same year as you??? That's rubbish IMHO.
Venus/Chiron contacts on the other hand make a lot more sense. Venus is a fast moving planet and changes signs about every month. And I do believe that when other positive aspects come into play (i.e. Venus/Mars contacts, contacts to the other person's Sun, Moon and Ascendant, ...) the Venus/Chiron contact can make the difference between a "normal" relationship that lasts a couple of years and a long-term relationship that possibly leads to marriage.

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darkdreamer
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posted November 06, 2007 06:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SagSun,

I agree that the Magi astrology comes across as rather arrogant and patronizing (don`t like that myself).
Despite this impression I have of them, I also think they might have found some valid things. For example their take on planetary geometry is oneI wouldn`t want to miss nowadays.

I also think that their interpretations of several aspects are spot on, but much too radical.
In t heory I think a Saturn-Chiron clash may be problematic, if it is the only aspect in a synastry chart.
But you have to see everything else, the big picture.

I also agree that Saturn and Chiron are not all that individual, so I actually think a Sun-Chiron or Mars-Chiron-clash may be more difficult in most instances than the Chiron-Saturn-clash.

DD

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SagSun
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posted November 06, 2007 08:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
In t heory I think a Saturn-Chiron clash may be problematic, if it is the only aspect in a synastry chart.
But you have to see everything else, the big picture.

I also agree that Saturn and Chiron are not all that individual, so I actually think a Sun-Chiron or Mars-Chiron-clash may be more difficult in most instances than the Chiron-Saturn-clash.


I totally agree. Saturn/Chiron clashes are not easy-peasy. There's no doubt about that. But I think hard aspects between personal planets, say Moon square Moon or Moon square Mars for instance, are a lot harder to handle. When looking at a synastry chart I don't pay much attention to aspects between two outer planets.

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darkdreamer
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posted November 06, 2007 10:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree.

I have a yod of Neptune, Pluto and Chiron with someoneī; according to Magi astrology it`s a very good placement, because it has two Cinderella-linkages, BUT I will have that with many many people of one generation, so I don`t consider it important, unless a personal planet is involved.

For example if the Moon (like in my case) is connected to those three planets I would consider it. Of course it means the Moon wouldn`t make major aspects to all three planets. But I like the idea of the 30° aspects. It`s such beautiful symmetry.
In my case it is:
sextile my Chiron
quinkunx his Pluto
square his Neptune

So in the light of the fact that my Moon is involved, too, I actually would take this yod into consideration, but only because a personal planet is involved.

Also, a so called romantic super linkage between Jupiter, Neptune and Chiron is too general in my opinion, but if Venus or Sun or ASC or any other personal planet plays into it, then the chance of an attraction becomes very likely, methinks.

DD

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bvanzy
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posted November 06, 2007 10:56 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to add that I believe astro-investigators found that one of the most common aspects in a marriage was a woman's Saturn square her husband's Chiron. Strange.

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Diandra23
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posted November 06, 2007 06:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hI!

yUP on reading your finding i instantaneously thought of the Magi

Before i arrived here in the forum i discovered their site and became fascinated by their studies and really think itīs very valid the theory og Kiron/Venus aspects.

The ones i looked up also have that aspect (my parents/uncles/friends).

When i red the interpretations you gave,they did resonated very deeply in me cause me and my bf share both the easy ( venus trine kiron) and the hard aspect (venus skuare kiron) in sinastry.

When i think of our relationship i do think of healing -through love - and everytime we argue or sth like that i feel there are certain patterns that make us act the way we act - that comes from previous wounds ( past life included).
Our love have been awakening wounds just to heal them,itīs what I feel - we become so vulnerable to each other cause we love so much. Itīs in that same vulnerability that lies our true identity-itīs where Kiron makes the work all along.

About the challenging aspect - itīs also true-there are certain behaviours ( from past experiences) that do come across our minds and turns us to act instantaneously,leading to irracional thoughts and fears that doesnt have nothing to do with the present reality sometimes.

Magy says that about the Impossible Dream Clash -its not always the "ilusioned dream" that wins..when both persons have in their natals turbulent angles with Kiron,they say the Kiron7Venus challenging aspect can be somehow dissolved ( WILL Smith /Jada Pinkett have that)

About the saturn/kiron thing...isnt Paul Newman and Joanne one of the couples that have that in sinastry? And they still are for me the best and only Twin Soul Couple ever !!

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libraschoice7
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posted November 06, 2007 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a double aspect of Venus/chiron with my Scorpio ex...we had Venus quindecile chiron and Venus quincunx chiron, I don't know about marriage but the relationship seemed to go on for a long time. And he seemed to be the only one capable of really loving me. I do believe Venus/chiron is needed for there to be feelings of strong love.

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

I "FEEL" therefor I am

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EighthMoon
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posted November 06, 2007 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EighthMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Sag,

I think that Chiron is very important...those positive healing contacts are incredible in synastry.

I'm not completely sold on that Saturn/Chiron/if you get into this relationship you're doomed jazz either. And DD is right on when she said much of what they say is accurate, but comes across as very presumptious and arrogant.

I did the same thing that you're doing when I first bought (yes...got sucked into that costly venture) the Magi software. I entered all of the couples I know to check out the theories. It seems that there is a high (although not 100 percent) amount of Venus/Chiron and Chiron/Neptune in the charts of long term relationships/marriages.

The other thing I'm not too sure about is that whole Juno vs. Chiron thing. If Juno traditionally represented the wife, and now it's Chiron...with Juno now indicating a mistress or affair...the only thing that makes sense to me is that back in "the day" most women would only have sex once they became "the wife." So in that regard, I can see Juno mistakenly being represented as a wife. I haven't really looked into it that thoroughly though.

8th

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SagSun
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posted November 07, 2007 03:23 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The other thing I'm not too sure about is that whole Juno vs. Chiron thing. If Juno traditionally represented the wife, and now it's Chiron...with Juno now indicating a mistress or affair...the only thing that makes sense to me is that back in "the day" most women would only have sex once they became "the wife." So in that regard, I can see Juno mistakenly being represented as a wife. I haven't really looked into it that thoroughly though.

I took a quick look at a couple of synastry charts, but the Juno/Chiron contact showed up only in about 20% of all cases. I have yet to look at the whole thing more thoroughly, though.

With my special someone I have Chiron/Venus trine (my Chiron) ... I really feel like he gets me like nobody else does. It's hard to explain, but it is like we understand each other in a way other people can't. However, we also have a Chiron/Saturn opposition (my Saturn), which are also contraparallel. To even things out, though, my Chiron trines his Saturn. From what I've heard about the Chiron/Saturn clash, it is the Saturn person that ultimately breaks the Chiron person's heart. And I just don't see a possibility of this ever happening. I care so much about him that the thought of ever hurting him pains me so much that it is almost too much to bear. But like you said, Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman have a Chiron/Saturn clash as did my grandparents, who had been married for more than 50 years. But like I said in my previous post, I don't pay that much attention to aspects formed between outer planets. Those aspects are simply too generational.

Most of the relationships I looked at were relationships were I always wondered why those people ever got together. Not only are the partners very different from each other. But they also have some aspects in their synastry where traditional interpretations always say that when you have this one your relationships doesn't stand a chance ... like Venus square Saturn, Moon square Moon, Moon square Saturn, Mars square Saturn, Moon square Mars etc. Now, don't get me wrong, I really do believe that all those unfavorable aspects are really bad for a relationship, especially when you have more than one of those aspects. Unless there is a strong aspect to unite those people, that is. And in all the charts I looked at that seems to be the Venus/Chiron contact.

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dream believer
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posted November 07, 2007 05:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh gosh, re the last post,that is exactly what has just happended to me. I just had a relationship with a married friend of many years. We were just friends for a long time and then unexpectedly ran into each other in August this year. We started hanging out and things quickly became intense, to the point that his marriage crumbled (he said it was on the rocks for a long time)> Now we had not too great synastry, some nice sun/moon/venus trines but an ugly sun + venus opposition to Uranus (extra marital affairs). I believed this relationship never touched me so when he suddenly returned to his wife out of the blue I found I was really hurting. I have now found a venus/chiron conjunction that is almost exact and a venue trine chiron the other way. Now it all make sense. I guess he won't be back but it does explain why my feelings ran so deep (and I suspect his too) and why I now feel so sad even though the relationship was only short and apparently always doomed!

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darkdreamer
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posted November 07, 2007 09:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eighth Moon,

"I did the same thing that you're doing when I first bought (yes...got sucked into that costly venture) the Magi software."
How did you buy it?
Did it go okay?
I`ve been pondering of buying it, too. I would invest that money, yes, but I somehow don`t like the idea of having to join their society before I can buy it.
Did you join? What does it mean to have joined?
And more important is the software good? Does it have interpretations?


"ith Juno now indicating a mistress or affair...the only thing that makes sense to me is that back in "the day" most women would only have sex once they became "the wife.""
Yes, that sounds logical. But still I`m not convinced of their take on Juno. It doesn`t fit the mythology a little bit, or am I wrong?
Juno was the faithful wife, who endured the unfaithfulness of her husband and stayed with him, though.
Well, so it seems there is a connection between Juno and infidelity, but she has been apparently the victim of her husband`s infidelity.

DD

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darkdreamer
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posted November 07, 2007 09:51 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sag Sun,

you know, I`m on the same page as you with the Saturn-Chiron-clash as being too generational, but one things strikes me odd.

I have seen several very long lasting marriages with the Saturn-Chiron-clash, but all those marriages also had the Venus-Chiron-linkage at the same time.

The relationships that didn`t get off the ground or crumbled quite quickly were those that had only little aspects.
To me it seems a lack of Cinderella-linkages or romantic linkages or sexual linkages or any kind of linkages leads far more often to a break up than the presence of a few Saturn-clashes.

DD

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comica23
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posted November 07, 2007 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for comica23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally, I also agree that Magi Astrology seems to be too fatalistic.. After all, astrology can tells us about the potentials of a relationship.. if astrology (or anything else) could really ensure us which relationship would work or not, then people wouldn't have to suffer (but that would also take away the joy of love, coz what is love without pain?)..
And there's also another doubt - Chiron doesn't move fast compared to the inner planets, so it also seemed kinda generational to me.. ^_^;

But well, after looking at these posts, I can't help but take a look at my synastry chart again lol (who doesn't? XP ).. in the synastry, we have:
- my Chiron trine his Venus (1 degree);
- my Saturn opposed to his Chiron (2 degrees);
- my Chiron opposed to his Mercury (3 degrees;
- my Chiron opposed to his Uranus (4 degrees);
- my Juno trine his Chiron (4 degrees);
- my Juno exact conjunct his Venus;
- his Juno conjunct my Moon (3 degrees);
- Mystic triangle formed by my Neptune, our Chiron (they are conjunct) and his Venus (if it's just my Chiron, all the interaspects are just 1 degree).

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