posted July 22, 2014 06:24 PM            

That's what this does to me.

I'll occasionally find the courage to keep trudging, the energy to dislodge my feet from wherever I've stood for too long and become stuck. Because it will take me under. I know it will.

It's hard to be afraid of what you both inexplicably know and logically don't. When it's someone you love, someone you trust with your heart, your soul -- with your life -- it's damned near a Herculean feat.

But I'm seeing a tiny sliver of light now. Just a dim ribbon in the distance.

Transits, progressions, and multi-composites.

It's almost too much to ask, to focus upon natal variations. It's easy to become lost. Especially when you have a vague understanding -- but too much to grasp.

You also need a reason.

Closure? Is it nagging at you? Haunting you? What's propelling you forward through this underworld sojourn? What do you hope to gain? What's the purpose?

That's why I think the passage of time, milestones, significant points of CHANGE and variation are what will reveal the patterns.

As I'm beginning to find my feet again, I'll start showing you what I mean.

You need a vague idea of a theme -- something that presented itself and emerged organically; not one that's been introduced astrologically -- one that's being supported by it.

Then you need to evaluate the most significant points -- signposts -- of the journey or relationship. Look for patterns THERE.

I think, if it's legitimately what it is -- they'll appear. Undeniably, too.

So be brave. And be strong. It's even more trying to allow ourselves to feel the emotions that stem from the inexplicable -- beyond the world we know, and logic and sense.

posted July 22, 2014 06:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
That may not be the debt. Think of SATURN. Was it a paternal relationship? And hasn't this been satisfied?

Kind of how my SNODE is on my Twin's PSYCHE/EROS. That one will probably nag at me for quite some time.

---

Yes he was my step dad....but does that mean I was his parent and not a good a parent to him in a past life?
Does this indicate I hurt abused or killed him? I don't get it?
iQ said he feels this man, my step dad, was not a natural soul. I can't remember what he called him but it was an entity meant specifically to keep humanity living in fear and prevent spiritual evolution from happening.
He said he felt he had spent many lives trying to hurt me for not following him. He specifically felt this man had something to do with my lifetime when Bahyl worship was practiced and I refused to serve him, potentially, maybe, possibly, lol....I was a human sacrifice to Bahyl as punishment for refusing to worship.
I'd have to go look at that link for the asteroids that showed that potential, and my name analysis indicated that I was a rebel of Bahyl and refused to kneel down to Bayhl and was killed for it, iQ saw that long before he ever looked at my chart.

posted July 22, 2014 06:41 PM            

On our charts we have all these placements that falls between libra@19-22, would you tell me what you think of these?

posted July 22, 2014 07:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
First, find your theme.

If TISIPHONE is part of the theme (and it does seem as if she's configured -- but is she activated?) then investigate it thoroughly. You may not always like what you see, but, that's not what this is about, is it? It's about confrontation. Healing.

ALEKTO, incidentally, was the one of the Erinyes / Dirae whose domain included wrath, or an 'implacable anger'. She was also the one 'called upon' when one's hospitality was disrespected.

TISIPHONE, it would seem, since time immemorial, is specifically in regards to vengeance of murder. Unless that is specifically a theme, it may indicate, say, nobler deeds -- such as the tireless detective, or even the young girl in search of her mother's killer.

You never really can tell without a presently understood theme. It becomes your ultimate roadmap. Without it -- you become quickly lost.

---

I'm not sure what you mean with finding a theme. It's a natal, there are several themes in them. As you say, people don't always focus on them all simultaneously, so "active" or not yet there it may be, but beyond it being with Karma square the Nodes and the following, don't know what Tisiphone's theme on its own or even with Alekto would be.

Karma is a degree and 25' conjunct Sun from what I recall, before the Sun. Tisiphone is on the same degree as Karma so at most ~2,5 degrees from the Sun likewise. Does that qualify for a theme or something?

26.40 Leo actually, just checked, so only 15' before Karma. Degree 40' from Sun.

I know too many asteroids for even the Sun's degree alone and the degree between that and the above to say that one thing alone would be a theme even with the Sun. Yes, the second closest asteroid to the Sun, Cortina, means curtains among other things, drapes or a screen even, and the Cortina d'Ampezzo page somewhere used to refer to the graveyard of the place when talking about meanings from what I recall, but does one become undertaker supreme through that and the Venus-Requiem or what?

I'm noting the Cortina-thing because there's also the sorceress and Mistress of the North Louhi on the Sun, and she's at times tied (interchangeably?) to the goddess Lovi/Loviatar who's a daughter of death and possibly a similar figure to Hel from Norse myths. I'm from her country or North compared to the world, so it doesn't bother me as any sort of a grim thing instead of Louhi having her own powerful status and agency in the world. In contrast to that, the actual proper goddess conjunct the Sun is Iduna of the golden apples of youth, and Susanoo from the Japanese side for gods. There is also Io for a Greek myth connection, but she doesn't directly tie to Tisiphone.

Point being, there's death prominent in the chart and there are other things. For all I know someone might count having Midsummer Norton on MC as part of a murder theme, given that the TV series Midsummer Murders makes it the Murder Capital of England. There's a lot that's grim around, even Desdemona getting murdered and having her ominous 666 number - but without some past life recall or synastry to light things up, I'm not sure if mere suitable asteroids in significant spots counts for a theme or accuracy enough.

Forgot I also had Agathe conjunct Tisiphone-Karma. Not quite Agatha Christie, but avenging "Nemesis" figures featured in her books as well. You mentioned the second house somewhere else in karmic things, and Tisiphone-Karma/Sun are all in H2. Tisiphone-Karma to Silentium and then Cortina with Sun. Wall of silence between the above and Sun? No idea when there's also Disneya there, so either Walt killed me or I need more with all that.

5H North Node has Angelica. I doubt the _main_ point of it however is that from anger you go to Tisiphone's murders at the midpoint only to end up an angel.

One of the main things that always lead to anger was stories of war-time rape or violence against women and such. The image got was a wrathful "goddess" with a sickle in hand to castrate such wrong-doers, which of course isn't a good place or mindset to live as a human so I tended to steer clear of it if possible. Imagine Alekto fueled by Algol. I used to refer to it "going Nemesis on people" but after reading at some stage I think it's more Alekto/Alecto and her realm with "moral crimes against other people (not the gods à la Nemesis)". Not directly her from the myths, but you probably get the picture.

posted July 22, 2014 10:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Yes he was my step dad....but does that mean I was his parent and not a good a parent to him in a past life?
Does this indicate I hurt abused or killed him? I don't get it?
iQ said he feels this man, my step dad, was not a natural soul. I can't remember what he called him but it was an entity meant specifically to keep humanity living in fear and prevent spiritual evolution from happening.
He said he felt he had spent many lives trying to hurt me for not following him. He specifically felt this man had something to do with my lifetime when Bahyl worship was practiced and I refused to serve him, potentially, maybe, possibly, lol....I was a human sacrifice to Bahyl as punishment for refusing to worship.
I'd have to go look at that link for the asteroids that showed that potential, and my name analysis indicated that I was a rebel of Bahyl and refused to kneel down to Bayhl and was killed for it, iQ saw that long before he ever looked at my chart.

To me Psyche/Eros on your SN would indicate that you have incarnated together before and he was deeply bonded to you being your soulmate in actual life during that life. Issues of today probably stemmed from that life...what do you bring to his SN or what in your chart aspects his Psyche/Eros? What squares it esp!
The squares would indicate what not only you failed to accomplish in that life but also what brought frustration and hurt to him as he tried to be what you needed. IMO

---

Hmm. An Archon? I forget the term, and I swear, I don't know WHY I just know that iQ knows what he's talking about -- that there's some strange sense of faith there, and yet, I know he does. I've 'followed' him for a long, long time -- that much I know. Well, my soul has -- whatever.

That's interesting about having rebellious ties. Strong URA? Much of the karmic dynamics I have with this man are in regards to power and control. Thank God he's so evolved! Because he certainly has a dark history -- long, dark history. Some things you just know -- and feel -- on an intrinsic level. He and my Twin have ties. Clear ties. It's so exceptional that they've even been able to meet. The odds of that ever happening -- outside of filming some many years later? Crazy. Odds astronomically against.

So there's a common thread there -- rebellion; refusal to submit. Raging against the status quo. Either in matters of principle, or otherwise. Ohhhhhh, boy.

Curiously, my PSYCHE/EROS=VX for him; his VX is right on it. My SNODE on his, his VX on mine.

As to squares -- my LILITH squares his EROS/PSYCHE by 2º; my MOON squares his PSYCHE-MARS, and my EROS-VALENTINE squares his EROS-VENUS.

Lovely, no?

His AMOR is what loosely squares my NODES. My ISIS is what squares his.

If I'm to believe what we wrote, I'm pretty sure I know how certain major things went wrong there -- but so much of it is left up in the air.

And I feel like I HAVE to get something sorted in this relationship first. What, exactly, I can't say.

Looking at NODES, his VESTA is what squares them, and opposes my CHIRON exactly. (We have an exact LILITH-VESTA, too. There's a LOT of Lilith energy in this synastry.)

So.

His SNODE:

SNODE conjunct KARMA (knew that)
SNODE conjunct DEJANIRA ( ... did NOT see that one ... )
SNODE conjunct LEWISCARROLL ( ... yeah, we have a DW)

My SNODE:

SNODE conjunct LEWISCARROLL (that one's exact, too)
SNODE conjunct NEMESIS ( ... I'm laughing, really, I'm laughing ... because you reach a point that it's ALL you can do)

posted July 22, 2014 10:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
But again, theme? When you only have 2 Erinyes at active spots or in play? You don't make themes out of two asteroids.

---

Exactly. That's what I meant by the theme shouldn't emerge astrologically -- or, if it does, it should be repetitive. EVERYWHERE.

I'm going to say that, fishing for a theme by analysing the aspects would probably lead you down the wrong path. There's just too much that can be 'identified', and that's where apophenia reigns.

Does a Tisiphonic theme strike you? Do you feel something deep within your bones? Does it make you flush? Like you've been punched in the gut? Suddenly ill-feeling and dizzy?

I don't think aspects alone will, can, or should do it. I think you KNOW. Then, if you'd like to better understand, the astrology can provide answers. This is my humble view.

For me, I was already with that strange 'knowing', and running charts as I normally do. Things kept appearing, but I wouldn't confront them yet. Not until rather recently -- less than a year ago. It's not been easy, finding the right pattern. There are a few, but it seems only one answers THE QUESTION.

... Am I making sense?

Your soul has a question. You're seeking the answer. You may not even know WHAT either are at first. You may have to fish around, if you're looking astrologically.

posted July 22, 2014 11:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Indigo is everything harshly aspecting the places in your chart that fall at libra@19 an indication of how you murdered?

On our charts we have all these placements that falls between libra@19-22, would you tell me what you think of these?

My Venus libra@19.05
My Anti-Vertex libra@21.26
My Destin libra@21.34
My Heimdal libra@20.58
His Anubis/Neptune
Our comp Kaali/Mercury
Our Draco Comp Asmodeus

---

Aww, your nVENUS is 19°? No wonder I have such a natural empathy for you; that's a conjunction of 0°07' to my nSUN that we share.

And a nDESTINN-AVX is a wonderful aspect. It truly is. That's a powerhouse.

I think it's statistically interesting that we find the Homicidal Axis to be points along Aries and Libra -- but I don't think for a second it isn't about ultimate transformation and powerful evolution. The balance between Self and Other. Growing into empathy. Learning to love without condition and fear of rejection.

It's strange that 19° LIB tends to be a degree found in homicidal astrological patterns -- both victim and perpetrator. I'm not sure why.

As to the how ... I've been all over the place on that one. It is my SUN, after all, tightly conjunct PLUTO, whose closest conjunction is to BML -- exactly. 2H. The house of Soulmate and karmic relationships, as well as (I'm told) an erotic and sensual house; the eroticism we have which can be given to others. Almost our intimate resources, in a way.

Yes, that does concern me. I feel the whole business was terribly entangled in power dynamics, sexuality, and the question of 'to transform or not to transform,' -- and whether that was even the question.

These seem to be what he brings to me with his ARIES points in tight opposition: MOON, BML, NYMPHE, EROS -- all in my 8H, from his 5H. MOON and BML falling on the axis. Now, it's all tangled again -- this time in creative expression.

Then he supplies yet another dimension, from his T-Square, the CANCER points in his 8H. MERC, and, curiously enough, DEJANIRA. Exactly conjunct my NESSUS.

How's that for confusing?

That's why the original theme must be the ultimate guide to understanding. Along with answering the question.

What question is your soul asking in regards to this? What is it seeking for ultimate satisfaction or closure?

For me, it's understanding what I have to do, and finally releasing old fears. I don't think I have quite yet. I feel as if I'm dancing on the Abyss' edge, but I know there's a net. So I can't lose myself. And yet, there's this intense yearning TO lose myself. And this total intuitive knowledge that I CAN. That I'll be all right. That I SHOULD.

And then there's this. I haven't dealt with it, and it even impacted my writing for awhile. Too painful. Too much to consider. For years, I believed one thing -- IF such a thing were even possible, no less true. Then, when I actually MET him -- I was floored. Reevaluating what I thought about so much -- but sticking to the 'original script', so to speak.

But I was clinging out of fear. I was holding on to it SO tightly because I couldn't bear the truth.

posted July 23, 2014 03:14 AM            

Lexigram name analysis regarding past lives...
""B G R K N N H L L E E E A A O O"

HE LEARN ANGEL BOOK
LOGO ARHAN BE KNEEL
HALO OGER KNEEL BAN
HEALER RANK LONG BE
ANKH REBEL GO ALONE
NO KNEEL OGRE BAAHL
GAEA NO BROKEN HELL
GENE BANK HALO ROLE
ANGEL HEAL BROKEN (o)
KEENAN GLOBAL HERO (Keenan means ancient)
HALO ANGEL GENE HEALER LEO GLOBAL ARHAN LOGO ANKH GAEA
RA BAAL REGAL LEARN GREEK ANGER BREAK OGRE HELL BROKEN ROANOKE GONE

Summary: There is a demonic connection of Baal in a past lifetime, but the predominant meaning is of an Angel who may have "Fallen" to assist in the healing of Earth, or to prevent demonic influence on Earth.
Ancient Egyptian and Buddhist influence has been powerful for you, and there is one Royal Lifetime possible.
Something in your DNA [Genetic Code that helps store the Light of the Real God?] is beneficial to Planet Earth's Soul [Gaea].""
-----
Sabian for my SN
Taurus 22: "White dove over troubled waters"

Theme: Guidance
Happily, spirit guides the human ego whether recognized or not.
The white dove rising above troubled waters just as spirit guides and protects a man's life-purpose and path.
-----then
Looking at my chart it supports the name analysis.....

Angelica/Sekhemet/DNA all conjunct 0-1 degree
Aura/Gaea/Horus/Oriella/Ural/Vibhuti are all conjunct 0-1.5 degree

Uriel/Auriel/Oriel-"God is my light"
Standard Hebrew Uriʾel, is one of the archangels of post-Exilic Rabbinic tradition, and also of certain Christian traditions.
Uriel is described as an Angel of the Earth. Heywood's list of the Angels of the Four Winds: Uriel (south), Michael (east), Raphael (west) (serving also a governor of the south, with Uriel), and Gabriel (north).

posted July 23, 2014 08:51 AM            

When I found a pattern earlier today, it reflected the first one that emerged initially -- but with a new understanding.

He has an exact natal conjunction of MADHATTER and VALENTINE. And this is what keeps appearing everywhere: in progressions, in multi composites, and even in the synastry, in a loose (3º) opposition. Sometimes with VERTEX, often with the MOON, but always, always, always together. ALICE, on the other hand, tends to appear with the SUN or EROS.

Of course, the most active houses in the synastry and composites -- and natals, too -- is the 8H and 5H. Frequently, overlaid. I had forgotten about how, of course, one can take the 5H to be the pleasure principle (Eros) thereby making 8H, the death instinct -- or Thanatos.

Karma like this, that builds upon itself, feeding like an ouroboros, honestly needs something like astrology to disentangle its many layers, meanings, and appearances. It becomes a large, looming, and confusing mass of sex and death -- Eros and Thanatos.

Falling in love, trusting, and surrendering to the greater forces that all of the above encompasses, are terrifying enough. Doing so with one responsible for having betrayed you so grievously -- actually ending your life -- that just messes with your head. But I have to remember, I've had ample opportunity to go down a very dark road, if I so chose to. I didn't. I still don't. Karma is, on some fundamental level, just enough distance, to where it's now 'acceptable' again; it's 'okay'.

Kind of. It's the fact that I feel such a powerful urge for confrontation. For, specifically, transformation. THAT's Thanatos. I'm not seeking to endanger myself; quite the contrary. Ironically, I trust this man with my life. He's an exceptional human being. Yet, as he's said many times -- the brighter the image, the darker the negative. The negative that's imprinted upon his soul is very black, indeed.

But I AM seeking to change, evolve, and transform. And he's doing so, too. I felt the pull to him from the beginning -- but I never considered the particulars. I never thought it'd haunt me like this.

That was when I remembered what I had been missing from the previous aspect:

TISIPHONE-HADES conjunct CHIRON. ALL exact. HADES also parallel our NNODEs. It's the TISIPHONE on my CHIRON which hit on such a powerful level; I remember now, HADES was right there, too.

So it got me to thinking, about it all, in attempting some kind of actual picture. I'm thinking too much of myself now -- not how I was then. We've BOTH changed, so dramatically -- transformed, from who we were.

I think I understand why it's my NESSUS on his DEJANIRA, exactly, in his 8H. And when I found myself saying the words, I began to cry -- from that uncontrollable, unbidden place. When that happens, I KNOW I've struck something real -- no matter how crazy it may seem.

I don't think I changed. And I played a dangerous game with a fundamentally dangerous man. I did it again this time around, though, differently. And, like before, he acted purely out of principle, but I was employing some form of emotional strategy. I ultimately wanted transformation -- but then, I was too afraid of it. And now, we BOTH took the chance, and we're both evolving because of it.

I always assumed that I'd become more open-minded, and flexible. That I was willing to entertain points-of-view other than my own. How befitting, now, to be a Libran; but that PLUTO conjunction to my SUN with BML -- I paid a heavy price for that. Something for which his MARS-LILITH serves as a direct, though distant, reminder.

I didn't. I wasn't. The fact that he's incarnated with MADHATTER parallel his SUN with an exact conjunction to VALENTINE -- on which the KAALI/RUDRA falls exactly, and everything trining my SUN -- exactly, yet again -- these were neon signs. The fact that the MADHATTER-VALENTINE pattern reappears, again and again and again, was a distinct clue.

I was so sure that I loved him. Hell -- I've had fifteen years to figure this personality inside and out. To meet him at his worst, learn about his complicated background, tragic circumstances, and nigh impossible decisions that had to be made -- and, ultimately, acquire sympathy for him. Oh, I've done that. By becoming more familiar with this character than any other, and then presenting him to the public, to where he's garnered both fascination and favour -- I've done that.

My ANTEROS is the Aries Point. 0º. It's also opposite my SATURN, and conjunct his ATROPOS by 2º. Anteros. Love returned. Eros, Thanatos, (Hades) -- Anteros.

His ANTEROS is 2º from his MADHATTER/VALENTINE. Ohhh, it's so obvious now!

The battle of wills I first penned over a decade ago. The deadlock. I never changed. I could never bring myself to love him. So what do I do? I become a criminologist, psychologist, and writer. I learn how to both fight monsters and have sympathy for (some of) them.

On the other hand, he studies the nature of evil. I seek to understand its motivation -- he seeks to eradicate it. Pure and simple. Some things never change.

But THIS time ... I love him. I mean -- I can! There isn't any reason not to! I've put forth great effort to make it happen -- to be here, to be there for him -- to love him. And he's done the same.

The reason it's his DEJANIRA there (and mine conjunct his SNODE) is because of the psychological operation, if you will, I was perpetrating. Baiting him. Knowing full well the likelihood this will NOT resolve in my favour, but also being unable to love him. Stuck. Both of us. Zugzwang. (There's that damned word again.)

Of course, until very recently, I couldn't accept that it hadn't. I stayed stuck in the moment before decisions are made. In the perpetual world of unending possibility. (The other thing that aspects the configuration is SCHRODINGER. It's heavily aspected for both of us.) It was the nifty trick that my soul used to stay alive in suspended animation, hovering between timelines and dimensional space.

But it gets exhausting, too. Something prompted me to face the music. Barely two weeks later, we slept together for the first time. I'm not finding this to be as coincidental anymore. Psychological tectonics. Major shifts in paradigms.

Maybe by giving up the game, by letting myself 'die' there, I could stop existing in that strange, uncertain place, and allow myself to be fully reborn and committed here. Here, a little death. There, a big one? Eros and Thanatos.

Those themes were so pervasive, they were permeating and confusing the work I was doing with my Twin, too. It HAD to get resolved. HAD to.

I'm not saying I was innocent -- but I certainly figured myself less culpable.

You see, when someone is acting on logic and pragmatism, when they're guided strictly by their principles, they're the most lethal to you -- because you can't sway them with emotion. You can't persuade them. And, in truth, I didn't even know IF I could -- because I never tried. That's why I kept getting stuck there, in THAT moment. Over and over and over again. Like a damned loop.

Funny, how the first project he shared with me was all about that: a group of people stuck in a loop in which they keep killing each other, relentlessly, until they can understand what's really going on and break free of it. Excellent works, too.

I remember saying that I felt as if I was stuck in one, too. And he agreed with me. But it's tough to talk about.

I've been trying to 'get' an apology when, really, I owe one myself. It's his DEJANIRA because he had no choice. We were earmarked for transformation for whatever reason, but I couldn't love him -- I was too married to my moral high ground -- and I'd chosen to do the one thing he could NOT let slide. Why to God was I thinking that he would? I don't know. Hubris?

I got what I deserved. We both did. He got stuck here -- and I came back. Thank God for, and because of, my Twin -- I came back. So there's no way in hell I was going to let THIS opportunity slide.

I think I can stop beating myself up about it now. Stop questioning if something is terribly wrong with me, and I'm unexpectedly twisted on some awful level. I have no fascination with the macabre -- despite how it may appear. I'm a healthy individual in which Thanatos (the death instinct) is operating as force of CHANGE.

NESSUS. Ferrying souls across the Styx to transform.

I'm Proserpina, who gets the terms of the deal, and is ready to rule -- no longer feeling shame and guilt for having eaten the seeds to begin with -- fully accepting her new role: as a transformational force and a liberator.

We're changing. Both of us, growing and becoming, rather than running and fearing, and clinging to an outworn past, or principles that no longer fit us.

He gave me a bouquet of white roses the day, following the night, that he ended our relationship. On principle. I tried to do what I could, and then just shut myself off, and buried everything I felt for him. That was November 2010. I married the next month. He hid how deeply shattering it really was to him, and, as usual, ignored the pain and pretended otherwise. We tried again, six months later, after I wrote him a very difficult letter, essentially telling him farewell on a personal level. He wouldn't accept it.

It wouldn't be until this past October, however, that I'd take a real risk and begin a sexual relationship -- which is what I ran from initially. I couldn't deal then. And then, suddenly, I could.

He said the next bouquet he gives me will be red; for my birthday, actually. I'm going to save the petals, once they wilt away, and store them in a pretty little box. Something I'll keep with me as a reminder that I'm clearing a little more of the karma away each day, merely by loving him -- taking the one chance I never could, which then forced his hand to do what he never, ever wanted to.

I felt that the power of love failed -- and it was a tragic disappointment. No, love never had a chance. It REALLY IS the greatest force in the universe.

posted July 23, 2014 03:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Aww, your nVENUS is 19°? No wonder I have such a natural empathy for you; that's a conjunction of 0°07' to my nSUN that we share.

And a nDESTINN-AVX is a wonderful aspect. It truly is. That's a powerhouse.

I think it's statistically interesting that we find the Homicidal Axis to be points along Aries and Libra -- but I don't think for a second it isn't about ultimate transformation and powerful evolution. The balance between Self and Other. Growing into empathy. Learning to love without condition and fear of rejection.

It's strange that 19° LIB tends to be a degree found in homicidal astrological patterns -- both victim and perpetrator. I'm not sure why.

As to the how ... I've been all over the place on that one. It is my SUN, after all, tightly conjunct PLUTO, whose closest conjunction is to BML -- exactly. 2H. The house of Soulmate and karmic relationships, as well as (I'm told) an erotic and sensual house; the eroticism we have which can be given to others. Almost our intimate resources, in a way.

Yes, that does concern me. I feel the whole business was terribly entangled in power dynamics, sexuality, and the question of 'to transform or not to transform,' -- and whether that was even the question.

These seem to be what he brings to me with his ARIES points in tight opposition: MOON, BML, NYMPHE, EROS -- all in my 8H, from his 5H. MOON and BML falling on the axis. Now, it's all tangled again -- this time in creative expression.

Then he supplies yet another dimension, from his T-Square, the CANCER points in his 8H. MERC, and, curiously enough, DEJANIRA. Exactly conjunct my NESSUS.

How's that for confusing?

That's why the original theme must be the ultimate guide to understanding. Along with answering the question.

What question is your soul asking in regards to this? What is it seeking for ultimate satisfaction or closure?

For me, it's understanding what I have to do, and finally releasing old fears. I don't think I have quite yet. I feel as if I'm dancing on the Abyss' edge, but I know there's a net. So I can't lose myself. And yet, there's this intense yearning TO lose myself. And this total intuitive knowledge that I CAN. That I'll be all right. That I SHOULD.

And then there's this. I haven't dealt with it, and it even impacted my writing for awhile. Too painful. Too much to consider. For years, I believed one thing -- IF such a thing were even possible, no less true. Then, when I actually MET him -- I was floored. Reevaluating what I thought about so much -- but sticking to the 'original script', so to speak.

But I was clinging out of fear. I was holding on to it SO tightly because I couldn't bear the truth.

But I HAVE to. I'm just not completely sure how. I think this is helping me find that, though. A little bit further each day.

---

You know, I think I understand what your saying!
Do you think this typical with all Twins?

My Twin has Psyche aries@20.10
His Eros cap@20.32
My Venus libra@19.05
My Destin libra@21.32
Anti-Vertex libra@21.24

Do you think at times this angle isn't about murder but death to parts of yourself that are in need of deep transformation?

posted July 23, 2014 03:51 PM            

With my Guardian, it was a true failure of purpose ending in a very tragic way. In that case, the failure to transform resulted in literal death.

Perhaps this is why I don't feel that outstanding karma with my Twin that I do with my Guardian. Interesting enough, he has one point on the Axis, which is exactly conjunct my SUN. THISBE. 19º LIB. I forget if it's opposite his PYRAMUS; he might have two ....

So it depends, if points on the Axis DO point to an actual previous homicide or not. I do think they certainly can. It's sort of the 'worst case scenario'. But, ultimately, I feel the push is to transform.

Thanatos.

I'm beginning to wonder if EROS and HADES will tell the deeper story in regards to configurations such as these. They certainly have for me, by pointing to TISIPHONE and CHIRON.

CHIRON is crucial, too, I think, being the wound that will not heal. His TISIPHONE there is salt in the wound for me; it's the reminder that his principles were unwavering, leading to a very deep wound within me. We have a configuration involving SATURN, CHIRON, and ATROPOS, too. It's ALL there.

Plus, his CHIRON is right there on my ANTEROS. Augh! OF COURSE! MY wound is TISIPHONE, but HIS wound is ANTEROS. The push to love. The desire to BE loved.

This is where the theme becomes paramount. Were it not for MADHATTER, I'd have never seen the connexion to his VALENTINE and ANTEROS.

posted July 23, 2014 04:35 PM            

His Anteros aries@0.28
My Tisiphone libra@0.34
His Destin gem@0.26
My Soulie saggy@0.20
My Parvarti saggy@0.56
His Parvarti aries@0.49

His DNA leo@1.22
My Saturn leo@2.50

His Tisiphone libra@19.36
My Venus libra@19.05
Then add his Psyche aries@20 on my Vertex
And his Eros cap@20

My Penelope cap@19.16
His Oddessus cap@22.16
His Armor cap@20.14
His Whiteknight cancer@20.26
His PortaCoeli cap@20.51

Side note....I never realized his Champion is on my Moon and my Champion is on his Karma which also falls on my Chiron/Anteros/Celestial

My Chiron Aries@24.14
My Twins Karma aries@25.11
My Anteros aries@25.22
My Celestia aries@26.34
His Eureka aries@25.08
His Osiris libra@25.54

posted July 28, 2014 10:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Well, the synastric MARS conjunct PLUTO with which I'm familiar was one of many aspects indicating a previous life ended by homicide -- one which I'm still karmically mulling over.

You don't have the dangerous degrees, though. But I'd be interested to see if they're in your progressions -- or coming up.

An abuse survivor with natal MARS-PLUTO affliction AND a close synastric conjunction -- who's already showing aggression?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MorpHnStorM:
To illustrate your point, here's a composite between my brother and I:

Mars-Pluto not in the synastry, but played out just the same. By far the worst relationship I've experienced...Abusive in every way all growing up, and one situation as adults where he decided to come after me when I confronted him about some more stolen property (because he also had an old habit of breaking in, stealing, and/or destroying stuff). He decided to try to re-injure my back (where I'd had an L5-S1 fusion a year prior with plates, screws, and all) and strangle me, cracking my hyoid bone and dislocating my jaw in the process. I went and got my gun, and he got his...No shots were fired, but we were done for good after that...That was back in '06.

Dear Mother, of course, blamed me. You know the saying; "Love your sons, raise your daughters"...That's her baby...And all the other women he's put his hands on, she blames them too...

He's the only person I'd ever actually managed to feel hatred for...He just seemed to hate me for my very existence from the beginning...Never mattered how much love was shown to him, he would do stuff unprovoked, and went as far as harming my animals too. I know he has also harmed other family members and friends of his (stabbed a cousin, etc.).

On a side note, I do wonder if they (Mother and brother) were married in a past life...

Another SN; I have a Moon-Pluto conj. @ 29 Lib 30/4th in progression right now, which is also conj. natal Pluto, and of course there's that transiting Mars too now...I ended up getting into a yelling match with them both last night...It really has come to a point of purging and wrapping up these kinds of relationships for good...I have been making progress over the years, particularly and esp. after my Beloved transitioned, but that desire has been that much more intense lately...

---

Here's a synastry (I'm inside, and his birth time is unknown at the moment):

Talk about lessons, I definitely did learn a lot from him.

So much and respect to everyone in this thread...

posted July 28, 2014 11:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
OMG Indigo!! I had no idea the meaning behind Tisiphone, so I looked it up in our charts....

His Anteros aries@0.28
My Tisiphone libra@0.34
His Destin gem@0.26
My Soulie saggy@0.20
My Parvarti saggy@0.56
His Parvarti aries@0.49

His DNA leo@1.22
My Saturn leo@2.50

His Tisiphone libra@19.36
My Venus libra@19.05
Then add his Psyche aries@20 on my Vertex
And his Eros cap@20

My Penelope cap@19.16
His Oddessus cap@22.16
His Armor cap@20.14
His Whiteknight cancer@20.26
His PortaCoeli cap@20.51

Side note....I never realized his Champion is on my Moon and my Champion is on his Karma which also falls on my Chiron/Anteros/Celestial

My Chiron Aries@24.14
My Twins Karma aries@25.11
My Anteros aries@25.22
My Celestia aries@26.34
His Eureka aries@25.08
His Osiris libra@25.54

Please help me understand what exactly this means?

---

I'll certainly try! Personally, I've utilised TISIPHONE as it's a part of a very specific theme for us. The fact that his is exactly on my CHIRON and is conjunct his HADES -- then his SUN is right on my LACHESIS/TISIPHONE -- that told me EVERYTHING.

Plus, did I mention our TISIPHONES are exactly parallel -- and OOB? 32N. Now how often does THAT happen?

I'm intrigued with yours (well, his) being on 19° Libra, with your VENUS. To me, that seems that the 'vengeance' theme could be strong. Is MEGAIRA aspecting anything?

posted July 29, 2014 02:51 AM            

Did it feel like some active very violent karmic pattern between you? I think what's so interesting as how I seem to be the only case in which the violence did not carry over. Simply put, we're very caring and loving with one another -- have been since we met.

posted July 29, 2014 06:27 AM              

I am sorry

I do not get how horrible siblings can be sometimes, maybe cause I just lucked out in this regard. But I remember a good friend of mine told me that both her elder siblings (brother and sister) tried to repeatedly drown her when she was a kid - she is the youngest.

posted August 01, 2014 07:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I'll certainly try! Personally, I've utilised TISIPHONE as it's a part of a very specific theme for us. The fact that his is exactly on my CHIRON and is conjunct his HADES -- then his SUN is right on my LACHESIS/TISIPHONE -- that told me EVERYTHING.

Plus, did I mention our TISIPHONES are exactly parallel -- and OOB? 32N. Now how often does THAT happen?

I'm intrigued with yours (well, his) being on 19° Libra, with your VENUS. To me, that seems that the 'vengeance' theme could be strong. Is MEGAIRA aspecting anything?

I can't recall if I have or not, but I suggest looking at your TISIPHONE Persona charts.

---

My MEGAIRA cancer@29.46
My Tisiphone libra@0.34
His Anteros aries@0.28
His Parvarti aries@0.49
His Destin gem@0.26
My Soulie saggy@0.20
My Parvarti saggy@0.56

His MEGAIRA aries@20.46
His Psyche aries@20.09
My Vertex aries@21.23
His Tisiphone libra@19.36
My Venus libra@19.05
And his Eros cap@20.32

My Penelope cap@19.16
His Oddessus cap@22.16
His Armor cap@20.14
His Whiteknight cancer@20.26
His PortaCoeli cap@20.51

posted August 05, 2014 08:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Oh, Morph -- good heavens! I had no idea! I'm so sorry to hear you went through all of that!

Did it feel like some active very violent karmic pattern between you? I think what's so interesting as how I seem to be the only case in which the violence did not carry over. Simply put, we're very caring and loving with one another -- have been since we met.

I wonder if that's unusual?

---

Thank you Indigo and Ceridwen, we all have our stories to share . It definitely is a karmic situation, but I don't feel it's necessarily between he and I specifically. I've never felt that kind of tie with him, and it was not such that the tension went both ways from the start; it was not mutually antagonistic from the start. I did not come into this world feeling that kind of tension, or connection with him. Not to mention, I have not been the only one he has messed over, I just got the worst of it. I don't feel a connection with him like you do with your SC, so the dynamics there are a bit different. I don't feel like there is anything to resolve with him; like there is anything that needs to be balanced. I feel I was meant to learn from it, and break from it...

There is more of a tie with my Mother, one of mutual karma (which will be completed in this life time); she's the only one I feel an obligatory connection with, and there isn't much left to that either. It's still hard, none-the-less. There remains a clear psychic link with bio Dad, but I don't feel anything lingers with him. I've never felt particularly close with most of my family though.

With your SC, it is likely that he has reached a soul maturity to the point that you two can find resolve with one another.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen: Oh Morph,

I am sorry

I do not get how horrible siblings can be sometimes, maybe cause I just lucked out in this regard. But I remember a good friend of mine told me that both her elder siblings (brother and sister) tried to repeatedly drown her when she was a kid - she is the youngest.

Well she eventually broke off all contact to her family, her mom, her stepdad, her siblings. It was the only way for her to survive emotionally and physically.

---

posted August 06, 2014 04:43 AM              

I'm just glad to have broken free.