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Author Topic:   Killer Karma: Identifying Dark Debts in Synastry and Composite
IndigoDirae
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posted July 19, 2014 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are many reasons we come to the great classroom; some, while less pleasant, are far more impacting.

As an academic criminologist (and young training profiler) I was exposed to the question of 'what is evil?' in many forms. As a writer, my karmic patterns have unfolded upon the page, time and time again, to the point where I've come to take it as a personal historical record of my soul, rather than whatever my brain my be tossing together from errant signals.

The hardest thing I had to accept were the darker debts in my karmic relationships. Fortunately, this is much easier to manage in your thirties than your teens. Understanding motivation becomes a more crucial factor as well.

So, today, after much thought, research, and work -- I've decided to open up discussion and examination into one of the hardest karmic patterns: violent crime -- specifically homicide; the unlawful ending of one's life by another for reasons either known, or unknown.

Death will bind two souls for an indefinite period; almost like boarding the same flight. Like it or not, you're going to be in the air together for a duration of time. The action is akin to purchasing the ticket. In some cases, it's mutual selection to undergo a similar experience -- both, say, exploring victimhood, as siblings in an abusive family, both ultimately killed by a violent parent -- among the greatest betrayals ever brought against one soul by another. These souls will tend to stick near to each other, reincarnating in tandem, following similar paths, and essentially exhibiting the pattern of Soulmates -- as family, lifelong friends, or more short-term catalytic relationships.

Undoubtedly, they have specific markers, (which we'll discuss in the next installment) and we can identify them rather readily. There's a sense of deep sympathy and a powerful bonding in such Soulmate relationships. One or both of you are walking parallel paths towards healing and karmic balancing.

Just as death will bind two souls (or more) for a certain length of time, until lessons are learnt, healing is achieved, and the patterns of victimhood are broken, so can there be potent unresolved karma lurking.

In some cases, the damage is so great to the individual souls, that even a surrogate Soulmate (one similar to, but not the actual soul involved in the initial incarnation where the action took place) is insufficient for proper balancing and healing. Again, there are numerous reasons as to why certain souls with especially dark or violent karma will choose to reincarnate together. If nearer to the end of the cycle, this is frequently for the purpose of ultimate balancing in the effort to achieve Ascension -- either mutually or separately.

Similar to approaching graduation as a student undertaking a particular curriculum, there are certain requirements. As we near leaving the third-dimensional cycle, it's important ALL debts are settled, and ALL necessary criteria satisfied.

It is my personal view that the natal's karmic patterns are not reflecting the most recent incarnation, but the ones in which we have crucial debts to settle prior to Ascension. And, as aforementioned, there's nothing quite like death to bind souls and create karma.

Chief among them, of course, is not death incurred together -- but dying at the hands of another.

Before we explore this, a few VERY important things to note:

While on a long enough timeline, the odds are quite good that one's life will end as a victim of murder, it's far less common that it impacts the soul's evolution.

This is when we incur what's known as special karma; it's that which is outstanding and must be settled in order to proceed accordingly towards Ascension and leaving the third-dimensional cycle.

Murder will, in most cases, create special karma between actor and recipient -- here, perpetrator and victim. Whereas two victims unite in a durable bond until their separate karma has been settled, the victim and perpetrator can become locked in a pattern together -- but it all depends upon circumstances involved.

So I introduce the first caveat.

IF YOU SUSPECT A 'MURDER KARMIC' PATTERN IS PLAYING OUT IN A SYNASTRY EITHER OF YOUR OWN, OR INVOLVING OTHERS, PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

This is a SERIOUS accusation, with implications beyond the scope of understanding for most. In astral terms, it's among the highest crimes and blackest marks on a soul's karmic record, if you will. In the third dimension, it's akin to literal prejudice against another for harm rendered in another lifetime -- the magnitude of which could be unfathomable.

If it's an ACTIVE Murder Karma, its presence will be KNOWN in peculiar and likely inexplicable ways.

Former killers do not incarnate with karmic balancing on their present agenda without it showing CLEARLY in the chart, especially along the NODAL axis and involving 12H/R. That's not to say that the chart will be violent; in some cases, the synastry, progressions and Draconic charts show the typical violent karmic patterns and homicidal markers.

But there will be SOMETHING there indicating its importance in the current incarnation. And, undoubtedly, there will be the same sorts of patterns in the former victim, though involving different markers.

THE RULE OF THREE IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO DRAW ACCURATE CONCLUSIONS HERE.

Unquestionably, we should not even begin to venture into this vein of thought without the Rule of Three in full swing; but that's merely an entrance fee. It JUST gets us into the gate to start exploring the possibilities here. If it's taken as a means of conclusion, false positives will result -- and that's not good for the science or the individuals in question.

ABOVE ALL, USE COMMON SENSE.

As with any astrological investigation, CHARTS REVEAL POTENTIAL; only some times do certain things become realised. And in the case of Murder Karma, the severity of the accusation is enough to warrant the most stringent controls and protocols.

If an individual's life reflects in no way the markers perceived in their natal, it's highly possible these energies are playing out in entirely different ways, they're a surrogate karmic partner -- with whom you may have already settled the karma previously -- or it's just not pertinent to the soul in question this time around. It's not on the agenda for this lifetime.

If, however, the opposite appears to be true -- there are inexplicable phobias, areas of interest -- especially obsessions and odd beliefs, dreams, or other evidence of soul recognition -- proceed with caution -- but DO proceed. It's highly possible that there IS an active special karma here that's outstanding and requiring resolution.

So, before we get into what I've seen the markers of Murder Karma to be, let's talk about some common misconceptions:

1. A karmic killer is NOT on-track to die at the hands of a karmic victim.

This is one that's been perpetuated for AGES, and likely due to the simple logic of cause and effect; seeking equalisation. But what's been witnessed far more commonly in practise, is that souls become locked into certain modes and circumstances, which in turn become patterns, and can evolve into cycles. It can then be very trying to break that loop -- but it's necessary.

The victim pattern is seen more frequently than a true killing cycle. Abusive tendencies perpetuate most often among Soulmates and Karmic Partners -- especially when it becomes evident that there's a strong and clear pattern. Killer patterns, on the other hand, may also repeat across multiple incarnations, varying in intensity, ranging from abuse to actual homicide, and revealing a clear history of violence in the natal astrology -- especially across many systems.

This isn't to say that the ultimate coup de gras -- the karmic victim murdering the karmic killer in grand retribution -- is impossible; indeed, it's far less likely. The karmic victim would have first have to have cleared their own victimhood pattern, and be willing to hang out in the third-dimension for some time longer.

Murder, regardless of justification or motivation, ALWAYS creates special karma. Even in the case of retribution and ultimate vengeance. Should this be the soul's goal, it may be realised. But in the instance of karmic balancing, so rarely does the Murder Karma present itself in such a manner that would incur MORE special karma.

This means that we have two crucial roles as the astrologer evaluating this special karma:

A. Identify the Murder Karma in the natals and synastry, focussing upon patterns, cycles, and karmic history.

B. Identifying the means of by which it is representing itself in the current lifetime.

Bear in mind, logic again has a place here: the form it's likely to take should align -- rather elegantly, in fact -- with the evolutionary goals of both individuals, and be a SIGNIFICANT factor both in the present, and in regards to karmic balance.

Simply stated, we must first identify the karmic murder pattern, AND the 'redemption pattern' -- or the means out of the Underworld, so to speak.

Now you can see from the above parameters, few will meet these criteria; such should limit the presence of false positives and allow us to focus upon the important work of balancing the karma, as it's what we're all here to do in some regard.

Murder Karma has a waving red-flag with patterns that are almost jaw-dropping in their relevance. You can't miss it. Trouble is, if you're like me, you may want to. Coming to accept that you share a Murder Karma with someone is likely to follow the usual psychological patterns of grief and acceptance; everyone will be a little different, and we all come to it in our time.

For me, this was early December of last year. It took me several months to fully investigate with the sole intent of disproving what I thought I was seeing.

I couldn't. It's everywhere: multiple systems. In numerous patterns.

I've simply had to come to accept it, and find what it means to me. It's less of a shock than it should be; anyone who knows me well could see that my soul was 'chewing' on this for the past fifteen years -- or more. Desperately seeking answers. Understanding. The truth. No matter how hard.

I have an active Murder Karma with someone who is very dear to me. It's seeking to be resolved, and I'm learning how to do it.

Now I'm going to share that with you, in the event that, you, or someone close to you, seeking advice, or in your care, may need it someday. I certainly have.

Let's begin.

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maira
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posted July 19, 2014 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maira     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What an interesting thread, Indigo!
I have a question: how would you identify which one is which in synastry? You talked about a pattern involving the 12th, so would the house person or the person who activates the other one's 12th be the past life abuser?

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 19, 2014 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First we'll examine particular synastric aspects which may potentially mark a Murder Karma; at this point, the key is potential, as the natals must ALSO reflect and 'activate' these configurations.

Immediately, we notice a synastric aspect which is an indicator of violence, passion, or both.

MARS conjunct PLUTO (0º25)

Mundane astrologers who deal in subjects of violence are familiar with this pattern popping up in synastries where the relationship has ended in homicide -- so it's one we'll have to evaluate more closely, as, again, a single aspect does NOT denote violence, or even its potential.

Given such a range, we now go to see how both are natally positioned. (He is MARS, and I am PLUTO.)

MARS opposite MOON (1º) and square MERCURY (1º).

PLUTO conjunct SUN (2º) and BML (2º).

On the initial aspect check, we can see there is an active configuration here which warrants further study. Now the assertion for violent potential is almost dicier than the accusation of a Murder Karma! Always tread cautiously when making sweeping statements characterising a synastry or relationship.

There are many forms of expression, but the discovery of a natal T-Square involving MARS, MOON and MERCURY incites necessary delving.

The natal stellium of SUN-PLUTO/BML is not as potentially problematic at this stage. However, its configuring into the T-Square could prove the lit match which ignites the dynamite.

Now, it takes a trained eye to particular features which may otherwise go unnoticed. The devil may be in the details.

19º LIBRA is an 'homicidal degree', found with astonishing frequency in charts of varying kinds -- natal, synastric, event, progression -- where homicide is either a focus or factor; curiously, it can be in those of serial murderers just as it can be present in the charts of the law enforcement officers who navigate such a troublesome field.

Here the SUN is at 19º, while the range extends to 23º.

This may become an indicator, if other factors persist, as the Homicidal Axis is agreed-upon at 20º ARIES-LIBRA, +/- 2º30', meaning that 18º- 22º ARIES and LIBRA have been seen to figure prominently in charts of both victims of homicide as well as its perpetrators. (It can occasionally be extended to include 17º and 23º as there are reported cases, merely less frequently, to not warrant as strongly an inclusion in the Homicidal Axis.

That in mind, let's take another look:

MARS (22º LIB '03) opposite MOON (22º ARI '31) square MERCURY (21º CAN '08).

SUN (19º LIB '12) conjunct PLUTO (21º LIB '35) and BML (21º LIB '11).

Unfortunately, this configuration involves many points along the Homicidal Axis, and is among the most tense and potentially explosive of them all: the T-Square.

MARS and PLUTO are indeed prominently configured in both natal charts, and making a powerful, nearly exact conjunction in the synastry. As these points lie along the Homicidal Axis, we have the first marker in terms of determining whether or not we have a violence indicator.

Fortunately, we also have personal experience (mine) and a few years of data with which to consult. I can report there have been ZERO instances of violence in the four years of our acquaintance and subsequent relationship.

There is a great deal of intensity, however, and the likely potential that a lot of the volatility is sublimated through certain outlets. This could easily be the end of the investigation; the configuration is merely expressing itself in other forms.

But the presence of too many degrees, tightly aspected, along the Homicidal Axis urges us to continue -- in spite of the unlikelihood, and 'common sense' check clearing the interaction, by the reported lack of violence.

Now we have to start considering what we came here to do:

If we review everything through the karmic lens -- do the charts tell a different story? If there are clear karmic markers, evidence of past life debts and unresolved karma, we can delve deeper into the possibility we may have a genuine case of Murder Karma.

Let's proceed. And, as always, any thoughts, questions, points of clarification, suggestions, and personal experiences are welcome.

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 19, 2014 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by maira:
What an interesting thread, Indigo!
I have a question: how would you identify which one is which in synastry? You talked about a pattern involving the 12th, so would the house person or the person who activates the other one's 12th be the past life abuser?

Excellent question, Maira, and where we're headed next.

Once we've identified a potentially violent configuration, we can determine its expression from the aspects, and taking actual known information (the 'common sense test').

If we've determined that there's a strong astrological potential, but the expression isn't presently violent, we can check out what might be going on karmically, by examining the NODAL axis, and seeing if there are any outstanding karmic debts -- and what they are.

Typically, it's through close investigation of each natal and karmic history that helps me to determine (along with outstanding debt analysis) which was the victim, and which was the perpetrator.

Using degrees, it can be tricky. We've found many homicide victims with major points configuring along the axis, just as we have those who kill.

So, personally, that's when I start examining the NODES and SATURN.

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Keela
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posted July 19, 2014 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please include a brief explanation for or a link to one of what the Rule of Three is, since can only assume it's been discussed in some other thread, somewhere. No idea, that is.

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 19, 2014 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Keela:
Please include a brief explanation for or a link to one of what the Rule of Three is, since can only assume it's been discussed in some other thread, somewhere. No idea, that is.

Sorry about that, Keela.

The 'rule of three' is something which certainly didn't originate in astrology, but has been used extensively in the practise of drawing accurate conclusions. And the more controversial you get, the more you want to make sure you have a strong case.

Any time we're looking for markers in a chart, we have to find it in at least three places. Let's keep it simple for the demonstration, and say we're evaluating someone's Aries or Martian potential.

If they have SUN in ARIES, we'd say that's an obvious #1. But if they have two more personal placements -- say, MOON and MERCURY -- do we say that satisfies the Rule of Three? Statistically speaking, an Aries Sun is going to likely have MERC there; MOON might be considered #2, but I'd say you're reaching.

Instead, let's say MARS is rising. As this denotes Aries traits, we'll say that's #2.

Then, the SUN in ARIES is also conjunct that MARS. We'll call that #3.

In three separate places, we've been able to find points that denote Aries traits, or have a Martian feel to them -- whether it's a light in close aspect to MARS, a personal point in the sign, or prominently configured (rising) in the 1H.

These can satisfy the Rule of Three, (in my opinion) because we're looking at three separate domains: sign, aspect to planet, and house. If we can find strong placements across all three of these domains -- our criteria has been satisfied.

This is absolutely essential when dealing with Murder Karma, as it's easy to mistake a passionate relationship for a violence pattern, given the variability of MARS and PLUTO.

It's only when we can see the aspect (#1) a strong configuration showing activation (#2) and degrees that are either often seen in charts of violent crime, or, along the Homicidal Axis. (I'm almost tempted to give special emphasis to those where they're configured with the Axis -- as that's statistically rarer.)

I hope that clears things up. I've been using it so long, I forget that it's not second-nature to all. My apologies!

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 20, 2014 04:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's interesting, because we can discuss some (serial) killer natal charts and perhaps the comparison to their victim. It's a very emotional topic, yet of major importance.

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 20, 2014 05:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
That's interesting, because we can discuss some (serial) killer natal charts and perhaps the comparison to their victim. It's a very emotional topic, yet of major importance.


Exactly. And, brother, do I have a few.

This whole thing has been a kind of culmination for me. Patterns I've been raging against since I can recall; things that resonated with me, yet I never knew quite way. It's all come together so quickly.

Something I enjoy doing are looking at LE natals, too. Ressler was a huge inspiration to me. We can even see how Douglas' chart has deceptive features, and I've got the data of one of my favourite working forensic psychs in the field -- who wrote the first book on profiling I ever read in college.

It's astonishing how many profilers also have their personal points along the axis. Heh. Myself included. And 'my first monster' (as he's been referred to since '96, has his nPLUTO right smack on my SUN, less than 0°25. Bizarrely Bundy/Rule-esque dynamics in that relationship.

The key, naturally, is avoiding false positives but getting to the truth all the same. Can certainly be tricky. And -- yes -- rather emotional.

But this is a big part of my healing. Confronting this. Accepting it. Understanding it. Loving, rather than running from, him, and the incredible intensity between us.

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 20, 2014 06:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now, let's look at what we've got to do to better understand the dynamics of this aspect: MARS conjunct PLUTO. We already know they're both prominent in each of our natals, so let's see how they're expressing.

MARS is 22° LIB '03, in n11H, and the n5R. This is a clear case for its expression to be rather evolved (11H) and potentially even romantic or creative (5R) if other factors are present.

There are extreme tensions, though, coming from the 5H (MOON) and 8H (MERC); further emphasised by MOON being 8R. MERC is also 7R and 10R. Issues of transformation, creativity, partnership, and public status figure prominently.

Perhaps the volatility is being sublimated in the project in which we're involved. 11H can certainly point to larger organisations and even causes undertaken. We're tackling some very complex -- even controversial -- themes within the context of the one-hour drama series I'm producing. 7H is committed partnerships; we are co-starring, performing opposite one another. That's pretty on-the-money thus far.

Let's look at PLUTO to see how they're combining.

PLUTO is 21° LIB '35, n2H, conjunct BML (0°25) and SUN (2°); 3R. This is personal resources, talents, and property -- further clarified in terms of writing and mental pursuits and ideas. If there were ever a label for 3H Scorpio, it'd be 'mysteries and puzzles'.

I think it's safe to say this is providing a definite outlet for a lot of the intense energies of both MARS and PLUTO.

Let's see what we can learn from the actual synastric overlaying; how these energies are combining. There's a great potential for these natal orientations to fuse in such a fashion as is being outlined. Question is -- do they?

The n5R / nH11 MARS falls into the s2H; action is added to the potential determination and drive of PLUTO. Being 5R, this can certainly be creative in nature -- but it can be romantic and recreational, too. As the n2H PLUTO overlays the s11H, it can be quite inspiring; there's the tendency to dream and aspire to great heights.

Looking again at the configuration, we have the 8H showing the potential for deep transformative experiences. This is both MOON and MERC oriented; n8R/5H overlaying s8H -- and 3R.

There's a lot of entanglement here amongst the goals and expressions of the MARS and PLUTO synastric conjunction: as 8H and 5R figure in many cross-aspects and via several dynamics, creativity may prove a secondary outlet for 8H matters: anything from joint-resources to sex and spirituality. I've personally found this to be the case. They're very interlinked, and trying to separate the two has proven complicated, painful and nigh impossible.

So that's their expression.

Just before I was ready to move on from this aspect in terms of evaluating karmic potential, I noticed two things:

MARS is his co-12R; its being conjunct my SUN (2°) (and PLUTO) also gives rise to my 12R.

And we have the beginnings of a mutual link -- to the past.

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fireopal09
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posted July 20, 2014 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fireopal09     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love this! Forensic Astrology!

------------------
Claire
"When going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
-HST

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Gabby
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posted July 20, 2014 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm pretty sure me n my step dad had murderous karma in our charts...not sure who was who but he was severely abusive to the point of fearing for life then when mom left him he decided to come to kill us kids and leave her to live with the guilt of what shed caused by leaving him. But on his way from California to us, he got murdered.

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amelia28
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posted July 21, 2014 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
I'm pretty sure me n my step dad had murderous karma in our charts...not sure who was who but he was severely abusive to the point of fearing for life then when mom left him he decided to come to kill us kids and leave her to live with the guilt of what shed caused by leaving him. But on his way from California to us, he got murdered.

Truly sorry to hear this .


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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 05:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Impressive, Indigo, and me seems, a little therapeutic, right? To be able to see it so clearly in these interconnections of a chart.


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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 05:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What would you think of this synastry here?
(While I don´t think it might be technically murder karma, it has some sort of dark vibe to it, along with a nearly unbearable intensity, as I recall. I once had a flashback of his death, too, which was weighing heavily on me for months. That heavy feeling just wouldn`t go away, though it seemed irrational).


Well, his birthtime is rectified by me, so the degree of his ASC could vary. But the Aries-ASC is certain.


[/URL]

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
mine

[/URL]

his

[/URL]

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Gabby
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posted July 21, 2014 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amelia28:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gabby:
[b]I'm pretty sure me n my step dad had murderous karma in our charts...not sure who was who but he was severely abusive to the point of fearing for life then when mom left him he decided to come to kill us kids and leave her to live with the guilt of what shed caused by leaving him. But on his way from California to us, he got murdered.


Truly sorry to hear this .

[/B][/QUOTE]

Awe!! Thank you

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 21, 2014 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
I'm pretty sure me n my step dad had murderous karma in our charts...not sure who was who but he was severely abusive to the point of fearing for life then when mom left him he decided to come to kill us kids and leave her to live with the guilt of what shed caused by leaving him. But on his way from California to us, he got murdered.

I'm so sorry to hear this, Gabby. Yes. That would be an active pattern which is so far from resolution (and evolution) that the souls are still locked in the cycle. I've definitely seen these sorts of cases before. :: hugs ::

Would you want to look at the charts? Heh, after yesterday, my assessment of how the MARS-PLUTO is operating in my synastry feels spot-on; so I can continue looking now at other things. (Once I show the 12H involvement.) It's more vestigial than anything, I believe; like an indication of a Murder Karma -- but not the root cause of it -- if that makes sense.

That's the real work. Learning how things are operating, and what they were doing then -- and now.

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Gabby
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posted July 21, 2014 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok.....I've added a couple of asteroids that have always scared me in my chart and his!

I'm the inside he is the outside


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Gabby
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posted July 21, 2014 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

My aspects-

My AC libra@7.05
IC cap@7.56


Temple saggy@12.32 on Apostle to the second

(2150) Nyctimene- Princess of Lesbos (in the Greek Aegean) who was raped by her own father. She fled to the woods and there hid herself in shame. Athena in sympathy transformed the girl into an owl, and appointed her as her animal familiar.

Link with explanation on the asteroids listed- http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/002278.html

His aspects-


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Gabby
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posted July 21, 2014 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Composite-

Draco Comp-

I think our stuff stems from long long ago!!
Here's a link where iQ looked at this and gave his thoughts.....but we didn't get into how our synastry related to karma regarding a murder....but his analysis is always amazing, wish I would have thought to ask about that part!
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/002528.html

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amelia28
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posted July 21, 2014 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I have a dark past life with my hubby. His eros in scorpio at 3 degrees conjuncts my saturn/dna in scorpio at 2 degrees and his karma in scorpio at 0 degrees also conjuncts my saturn/dna.

His hekate conjuncts my mercury which rules my DC, MC and Sun.

My nemesis conjuncts his jupiter.

His venus and my venus/mars conjunction squares his mars/uranus conjunction in the DC.

His Kaali opposes my chiron.

His Pluto conjuncts lilith and trines my lilith and my NN.

My nessus at the end of my 8th house trines his nemesis in the 7th.

I think I see my hekata/juno conjunction at the apex of a Hammer's Thor forming a sesquisquare with his neptune in the 8th and a sesquisquare with my mercury conjunct his intercepted hekata at my MC and his intercepted 5th in virgo.

We dont have mars/pluto hard aspects, just one sextile but if you can help me figure out something about hour dark past that would be great. Do you think any of the aspects I mention indicate such?

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IndigoDirae
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From: Venice, California, US
Registered: Jul 2011

posted July 21, 2014 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Impressive, Indigo, and me seems, a little therapeutic, right? To be able to see it so clearly in these interconnections of a chart.


SO therapeutic, Ceri. I ran for so long. I hid. I was terrified. It made me question so many things about myself. Suddenly, I wasn't just playing a role -- I was thrust right into the thick of it -- REALLY having to explore the thoughts, emotions, and quandaries of that space.

Why? Because I'd already run from it in my teens. In simplest terms, you will not be touching my body in an intimate fashion if you have a body count.

So this has been ... strange. And, since I'm exploring the dynamics I am (in regards to time and hyperdimensionality) I don't get the 'pass' of, oh, well, that happened somewhere else that isn't here, and so it doesn't matter. Because then I'm falling prey to the EXACT thinking I'm raging against by using this multiverse structure in the first place! Gah!

It's CLEARLY happening with intention. We're trying to clear the karma and resolve what brought us into this complicated host of dynamics, while satisfying several agendas.

And, for some reason, on my 'to do' list this life, as of 2000, was to accept that I'd been murdered -- a few times -- in the past. Then, in 2010, to meet someone who's been very influential across many, many lifetimes, and is intrinsically linked to my own destiny -- entwined, I'd say.

Then, in 2013, to accept that I'd gotten a crucial detail wrong in 2000 -- even though my subconscious kept 'playing' with the idea, and keeping it at a distance, by saying, 'well, this is just one way it COULD have happened ... ' as it I was completely ignoring the dynamics of time! But, oh, reading Seth Speaks again ... I REALLY needed that. Suddenly, I saw what I was actually dealing with.

And I realised ... after a long, hard examination, of nearly 15 years, in many forms -- that I was wrong.

No, there was no happily ever after. Yes, he killed her. She failed. THEY failed. I admit it -- I cried. I was VERY upset, because everything suddenly fell into place and became crystal clear. It ALL made sense. Just like that. Changing one single -- one VERY crucial detail -- and now, it ALL makes sense.

It was the thing against which my soul had been raging.

NO! The power of love! It changes all! It can -- it can change! They changed -- HE CHANGED!

To realise that he didn't? Oh ... God ... the betrayal.

The strangest moments are the ones where, completely automatically and in jest, he'll say things such as, 'if X, then I will murder you, rest assured.' And even though I laugh -- I do! I still laugh! God -- you have to, or you'll go insane, right? So, even though I laugh, something in him seems to twinge for the slightest moment, and he apologises -- immediately after. Sometimes it's just an 'you know what I mean,' or ' ... sorry about that.' Sheepish.

It's like there's this tacit communication that we both KNOW, but God -- why would we say that? Why would we FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE that?

That's, in part, what this series is for -- why the story came to me -- and why elements of it came to him independently, and we ended up writing the SAME themes. We're BOTH chewing on the SAME things.

Except in mine, my self-insert (a protagonist based upon the author) is the victim.

And in his ... well ... let's just say, he isn't. Because I DON'T like typing those words. They're STILL hard.

But I'm getting better. I'm not running from him, or the story. I'm slowly, slowly healing. My mind has been healing, and now my soul is, too.

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amelia28
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From: AC conjunct Jupiter-Uranus
Registered: Aug 2011

posted July 21, 2014 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IndigoDirae:

But I'm getting better. I'm not running from him, or the story. I'm slowly, slowly healing. My mind has been healing, and now my soul is, too.


I am glad!

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Even if I do not say much to it, I listen and on some level I understand.

I remember having this flashback, like a movie behind my eyes, and they were actually OPEN. At night. Yet unable to stop being drawn into the story, to re-live it again. just glimpses of it, the end, if you so want.

It was a lot to swallow, and it made me for a few moments questioning my sanity.


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amelia28
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Posts: 3752
From: AC conjunct Jupiter-Uranus
Registered: Aug 2011

posted July 21, 2014 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think eros conjunct saturn in synastry can be added to aspects that hint towards a dark past life but that offer hope in this life showing that the karma will be resolved. I think the fact that his eros conjunct my saturn/DNA is in scorpio further hints to a dark past life and the fact that DNA is involved I think means many lifes..


IQ said to me that:

"Hi Amelia,
Eros conjunct Saturn need not be betrayal, it is the squares that indicate betrayal.

The conjunction is evidence of a Karmic Soulmate: A Soulmate with whom you have developed so much karmic debt that you have to marry or live together for a few years to pay off the debts. Once the debts are paid, either he will transform into an even more loving person [and enhance the beauty of the relationship] or he will suddenly separate, allowing a better Soulmate into your life."

I also found this online just now:

"Saturn is the lead the alchemist labored to turn to gold. In this metaphor, Saturn’s heavy price of pain and suffering can, with effort and consciousness, lead to the glory and wealth of wisdom and understanding. Our weakest point, the repulsive flaw, may transform into a golden virtue, an attribute of distinction. This transformation, if the tale of Beauty and the Beast be any hint, comes quicker through the application of love than all the hard work or assertion in the world.

When Saturn is in aspect to Eros, the opportunity to transform lead to gold may come though the medium of erotic love. This can mix one of the most agonizing experiences with the most exquisite making pain hard to distinguish from the pleasure. When Saturn and Eros meet we come to know the depths of our flaw, usually appearing before the eyes, in full Technicolor, in the form of the beloved other.

Eros conjunct Saturn can suggest difficulty discerning between an experience of erotic attraction and an experience of abject fear. As Eros awakens, so does Saturn and the initial response can range from wise caution to absolute panic. The alarming thing is that Saturn seems to increase, not destroy, our sense of allure to the other. A kind of fascination develops that spirals around a catch 22 that says the closer we get, the more we fear, the stronger the compulsion for closeness. The magnet attunes to captivate someone with a similar flaw and commensurate fears. This alone can produce tremendous pain, and also tremendous growth and understanding.

Eros linked to Saturn by aspect is like the bond between Beauty and her Beast/Prince. At first, she is terrified of the monster in prince’s clothing, yet to save her father, also a symbol of Saturn, she offers herself to the creature. She willingly places herself in the Beast’s powerful domain, determined to protect her father in spite of her overwhelming fears. The conjunct, trine and sextile aspects may highlight this willingness to enter the realm of Saturn through the medium of erotic love. In this story, it is not long before the young maiden sees beauty where others only see retched ugliness. "
http://www.falconastrology.com/erosle06.html

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