posted October 08, 2015 10:20 AM            

My bf has all those aspects, except Mars to Pluto. Lots of Mars squares for sure.

BUT, I see this manifest a lot in his physical activity - he's an avid kick boxer and has always taken martial arts, etc.

He was also raised in a very physically abusive home, so I have associated it with that.

Of every guy I have dated, I have felt safest with him in regards to any potential violence. BUT, he has thrown a punch to protect people before in his past - he was also raised in a bad part of town.

So, the survival tactics are necessary.

posted October 08, 2015 10:34 AM            

Psychopathy and psychosis are two very different things. Psychosis is the classical "madness' so to speak (although this is basically a pejorative term) and the two major psychoses are schizophrenia and manic depression. Delusions are a main criterion, yes. They are degenerative diseases, to put it in simple terms, comparable to sclerosis (if we look at how the brain evolves) Most people suffering from a form of psychosis are not violent, more on the turning into a vegetable side, as ultimate, heartbreaking consequence. These are simple, and rather pejoratives descriptions I am using here.

Astrologically, psychosis would be associated with Neptune and particularities to 3rd house/ruler/Mercury.

Psychopathy on the other hand is more of a personality disorder. It eventually may be summarized as a personality lacking "humanity". It is too associated with brain dysfunctions (the main one being in the affectivity/empathy area, the frontal lobe), not official yet; the psychopathic brain is innate or created during very early childhood only (and in the second case, there have to already be some biological favorable conditions). Psychopathy is associated with sociopathy (acting against other people) and this is not the case with psychosis patients.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/), also known as—though sometimes distinguished from—sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.

Personality dimensions

There are different views as to which personality dimensions are more central in regard to psychopathy.[12] Besides dimensions described elsewhere in this article, studies have linked psychopathy to alternative dimensions,[12][13][14] such as antagonism (high), conscientiousness (low) and anxiousness (low, or sometimes high).[12] Psychopathy has also been linked to high psychoticism—a theorized dimension referring to tough, aggressive or hostile tendencies.[13] Aspects of this that appear associated with psychopathy are lack of socialization and responsibility, impulsivity, sensation-seeking (in some cases), and aggression.[13]

Otto Kernberg, from a particular psychoanalytic perspective, believed psychopathy should be considered as part of a spectrum of pathological narcissism, that would range from narcissistic personality on the low end, malignant narcissism in the middle, and psychopathy at the high end.[14] However, narcissism is generally seen as only one possible aspect of psychopathy as broadly defined.

Psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism, three personality traits that are together referred to as the dark triad,[15][16][17] share certain characteristics, such as a callous-manipulative interpersonal style.[18] The dark tetrad refers to these traits with the addition of sadism.[19][20]

While they may experience unusual pathological phenomena, psychopaths are basically non-delusional.
Psychotic patients are not a danger to society in most cases, while psychopaths are.
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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted October 08, 2015 10:35 AM            

Factor 1
Facet 1: Interpersonal

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative

Facet 2: Affective

Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2

Facet 3: Lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility

Facet 4: Antisocial

Poor behavioral controls
Early behavioral problems
Juvenile delinquency
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility

Other items

Many short-term marital relationships
Promiscuous sexual behavior

posted October 08, 2015 11:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I don't think it's a good idea to analyze someone as a psychopath after 4 dates unless you are a genius psychologist or one with over 15y experience with them. I was talking about the article, not this guy.

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Thanks for your concern, although please re-read. I had more than four dates with this gentleman and we talked to each other for longer than I mentioned in this thread.

<Start: Explaining myself>
I ran an unbiased account by my counselor yesterday, just meaning, with no preface - just about a guy I dated recently. When I told her about the ordering dinner she said "Okay, the hair on the back of my neck is standing up..." One of her specialities is DV and she was disturbed because this is usually the first "tell" of controlling behavior. As I went on, about changing the tire while he watched, the dramatic committment declaration and the rest of it, she stopped me and commented that he sounds "like a psychopath". If I am not qualified, a clinician with 30+ years of experience is.

I'm not exactly a newbie either - I worked for several years at a mental health clinic and most recently with imprisoned and recently paroled men and women (I taught job skills). I am not a psychologist, but I have a couple of masters degrees (my undergrad is in Behavioral Sciences) and tons of experience working with "fringe" individuals (Scorpio MC).

I take year(s) long breaks in between relationships, and in my (too long) dating history, I have had some break ups. Some with men that I have only dated briefly and some with men I dated for years. Not all of the break ups have been smooth, gentle partings of ways, they have been tough. I even wrote (at length) about one on my "Know Two Are Alike" thread.

BUT, I have never had a man that was "off" like this with a parting as "odd" as this and with behavior as "strange" as this. I have dealt with players in the past and I am (sadly) familiar with their MO. With this man and his behavior, it was just "whoa, weird". I couldn't put my finger on it, I didn't even know there was an "it" to put my finger on. Being the 7th house heavy, boundary-free, (mostly) passive person that I am, I would have gladly accepted blame for the demise of this relationship. I tend to do anything to make myself feel bad, or to make myself think that I need to change (I know, it's not healthy, at all but I'm seeing someone about that, lol). However, I knew something was "not right" about this man. I posted here and I got some guidance, and it was right on the money. I read and I researched and, like I stated, his behavior is textbook. To the point where I wonder if he read all of these websites and decided to act out the role of "Psychopath Serial Dater". He could have, he is a self-proclaimed "actor" after all.

I was not looking for a diagnosis for this man just because we stopped seeing each other. I actually wanted to find out if we could make amends somehow, lol. It all just happened to unfold.

* ETA: My counselor actually scared me a little because she is very concerned about this man and what he is capable of. I was not as perturbed (Leo pride). She advised me to mail his stuff back right away and avoid all contact.*

posted October 08, 2015 11:48 AM            

I think we can do this with someone you know well and can already confirm this behavior. You make it sound like knowing someone for a short time is not a big deal.

However, I was among those who said yes, he may look like one, but then all we can do is discuss psychopathy, rather than stigmatizing a person you barely know. And since the topic of psychopathy has been opened, a very important one, I posted a message about it which you ignored and kept talking about your synastry with this guy you think is a psychopath. Which makes me confused. Why such a synastry between you and a psychopath would matter? I told you before, for them is general behavior, it has nothing to do with you, it's not personal.

On the other hand, there is also the important topic of what to do to avoid this in the future and how to protect yourself from such individuals while dating online, but you seem to avoid or ignore this topic too, because you seem to believe the way you approached this relationship is the perfect thing to do and you are ready to do it again.

It is more important for me to post about these two things or nothing at all. I am not very good at helping you with blaming someone else for your own mistakes.

By mistakes I mean psychopaths and all kinds of weirdos will always be out there; and they will be online; we can't change that; all we can do is learn how to protect ourselves from them.

posted October 08, 2015 11:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by downtomars:

* ETA: My counselor actually scared me a little because she is very concerned about this man and what he is capable of. I was not as perturbed (Leo pride). She advised me to mail his stuff back right away and avoid all contact.*

---

posted October 08, 2015 01:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Keep in mind someone with lots of aspects to Mars in the chart is NOT automatically a killer. No aspect alone qualifies for or excludes mental diseases or violent behavior. Mars/Pluto sq/ an aspect of potential high level of physical aggressiveness and power is common in physical champions. It's a plus when you are martial arts or a boxing champion or a hard physical laborer for instance.

---

posted October 08, 2015 01:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
As I said, NOT a good idea to look at someone's chart and compare it with serial killers'. It is completely irrelevant.

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posted October 08, 2015 01:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by downtomars:
When I told her about the ordering dinner she said "Okay, the hair on the back of my neck is standing up..." One of her specialities is DV and she was disturbed because this is usually the first "tell" of controlling behavior. As I went on, about changing the tire while he watched, the dramatic committment declaration and the rest of it, she stopped me and commented that he sounds "like a psychopath". If I am not qualified, a clinician with 30+ years of experience is.

I'm not exactly a newbie either - I worked for several years at a mental health clinic and most recently with imprisoned and recently paroled men and women (I taught job skills). I am not a psychologist, but I have a couple of masters degrees (my undergrad is in Behavioral Sciences) and tons of experience working with "fringe" individuals (Scorpio MC).

---

Isn't it damned disturbing how we can still find ourselves 'prey' to such individuals? The ones who are supposed to know better?

It became such a strange theme in my life that it's a core facet (wound?) of my protagonist. The truth is, no one is 'safe'. We can educate ourselves, deal with the worst, and at the end of the day, we're still susceptible.

I say it's down to schema; we go in with our shields up, when dealing with that population (the homicidal set) but not when we're on a date. We should be running EVERYONE through such stringent controls; but we don't. Well -- until we do.

posted October 08, 2015 01:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
On the other hand, there is also the important topic of what to do to avoid this in the future and how to protect yourself from such individuals while dating online, but you seem to avoid or ignore this topic too, because you seem to believe the way you approached this relationship is the perfect thing to do and you are ready to do it again.

---

What you were saying was fine up until this point. I don't appreciate the concern trolling.

I did not say that the way I approached this was "perfect" and I did not mention that I am ready to "do it again".

I only take relationship advice from experts who have known me longer than a week on a message board and have had 15+ years of proven professional experience.

Thank you.

posted October 08, 2015 01:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Isn't it damned disturbing how we can still find ourselves 'prey' to such individuals? The ones who are supposed to know better?

It became such a strange theme in my life that it's a core facet (wound?) of my protagonist. The truth is, no one is 'safe'. We can educate ourselves, deal with the worst, and at the end of the day, we're still susceptible.

I say it's down to schema; we go in with our shields up, when dealing with that population (the homicidal set) but not when we're on a date. We should be running EVERYONE through such stringent controls; but we don't. Well -- until we do.

Welcome to the point of your life where you start doing that.

---

That's very true. I thought I actually had a pretty good antenna but, I guess not.

posted October 08, 2015 01:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by downtomars:

I only take relationship advice from experts who have known me longer than a week on a message board and have had 15+ years of proven professional experience.

---

posted October 08, 2015 01:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Concern trolling...nice! thank you!

Everything you post on a public forum is or becomes of public interest. In other words, if I am the only one who underlines this was in fact caused by the habit of jumping into relationships with barely known people, the only one to launch a warning about this (even in that case), I will do it. For these posts are read by many people. It's a public discussion about a matter of general interest and concern for the public. You can have a one-to-one exclusively "me" time only with your therapist; here, you need to show concern for the message you are sending to the public and also, be willing to accept criticism and all kinds of opinions, not just venting and blaming others support.

---

posted October 08, 2015 02:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Yeah, I'm the bad guy here. Me and the "psychopath". This is what my posts have been about.

---

posted October 08, 2015 02:04 PM            

I just mailed his clothes back to him. I put that Leo pride aside!

posted October 08, 2015 02:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by downtomars:
So, you can make a judgement, but I can't?

---

You are judging me as a person for having told you you should try approaching dating and online dating differently, as part of the lesson for you here?

Besides I am not the only one, almost everyone else told you that.

posted October 08, 2015 02:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
...Trolling your thread.

---

Well, when I kindly responded to you regarding your opinion that this was a fast moving relationship that should have been enough, since the thread is not titled "How Long Should I Wait Before Sleeping With Someone?". Since you are pressing that issue, under the guise of "concern" well, then it becomes trolling.

ETA: I can't rewind the past and not sleep with him after 4 dates, so, again, pressing the issue is ??? Why? I explained that I have had relationships that have moved fast and relationships that didn't, like most people. Some worked and some didn't. I made a mistake in this particular case. I didn't need or ask for a lecture about "getting to know someone".

posted October 08, 2015 02:26 PM            

And maybe it should have been called "What can happen if you sleep with an online date after a few dates" for this is the actual issue here, as you acknowledged it yourself. But then changed your mind and decided to shoot the messengers.

And since this is the main issue here, the core of the matter, what else can be discussed if we're not just to vent and victimize ourselves? There's no relationship to analyze here, just the matter of approaching relationships.

Anyway, my last posts were about psychopathy, the part in this thread that interests me at this point. The other point of interest here is: what can happen if entering too soon in a relationship with someone we barely know. What the heck do you think this is about?