posted November 02, 2015 08:55 PM            

Also, the lack of a sexual relationship with my ex-producing partner is what completely wrecked the decade-long friendship. I wish that it hadn't; as he'd once said, that we didn't end up 'tragically disappointed'.

Can I imagine a platonic relationship with my boyfriend? Of course. We'd had one -- for years. It was clearly ambiguous for a short while before we'd confirmed our feelings for one another. After that point, it was a matter of choice -- and circumstance.

Trick may be to ask what the karma is, or multidimensional 'baggage' you're bringing, from elsewhere into this lifeline. It took me awhile to fully realise that a big part of ours is to go against societal expectations, embrace our deepest authenticity, and choose love over principles, or abiding by society's dictates. Turns out, that's not what my ex-producing partner and I are trying to do; we really may just be here to set some records straight, and create good art together. It's tough to say. But none of that has involved dramatic shows of devoted love, or enduring being scandalised or ostracised to be true to ourselves, each other, and our relationship.

I'd suggest you determine what the two of you are here to complete together, and whether a romantic relationship seems to be part of it. That DOESN'T mean you won't WANT it. I still fully believe that, had my ex and I been able to express that outlet, we'd be okay. It would've been complicated when it came time to begin settling into my relationship with my boyfriend, and continue strengthening my marriage with my husband through helping him to heal a lot of what's led to his greater addictions and unhappiness -- however. But then it may've just faded comfortably in the background, once we were no longer having to interface with each other so closely in order to do our work (television series). Alas, it'll remain unknown.

In any case, it can't hurt to try and understand what the greater purpose of the relationship might be. If your karma does actually entail doing some bigger, more controversial things -- well, who knows? You'd cross that bridge if you came to it.

posted November 03, 2015 11:13 PM            

Though, oddly enough, outside of the UNION loosely conjunct the DSC, there's not a lot there which I'm finding to be romantic in its expression.

The SUN conjunct SATURN can clearly lend itself to a serious purpose, given its severe tone. iQ has a theory that the 11H in a composite brings gains and benefits to those involved. So, I like your 11H SUN, but the SATURN there might be restrictive.

posted November 04, 2015 01:32 AM            

The pVENUS/pMARS is intriguing, though, as you know my VENUS progressed to conjoin my boyfriend's natal MARS the month that we got back together, October 2013. It certainly seems to me, that in alternate circumstances, you would be romantic partners. Of course, if that's truly the case, going into business together might be a bad idea. Either someone is going to behave regrettably, or the whole thing will collapse under the weight of unresolved tension.

I don't mean to be so grim about it, but having experienced this from both sides, I can tell you with certainty that telling my husband (then fiance) the truth, and exploring a relationship with my now boyfriend -- was the ONLY move I could've made. Anything else was an awful zugzwang.

You may need to make a choice. A real one. A hard one. Unless you're oriented as polyamorous, it's curious that you have these intense feelings for someone that isn't your husband at all. Is your marriage happy? Have you checked the progressions to see if either you or T have a marriage year coming up?

I've been acutely aware of what happens in terms of progressions in 2025; my natal SUN rises on my progressed chart at 1º, also with a 1º conjunction to my natal JUNO. His pSUN and pVENUS conjoin with his pVERTEX, all heading for my natal VENUS. His pASC is 0º conjunct my natal VERTEX; my pSUN is 0º conjunct his natal ASC, and opposite his pMOON, 2º. My pMOON conjoins his pDSC, 0º.

Oh, yeah. Stuff's happening. What stuff, who can say? But it's enough for me to keep my eyes open, and consider the possibility that, in a decade's time, my karma may be fully cleared with my husband, and we may both want to move on. Right now, it feels cowardly to consider it. But I can't say for sure it will still, ten years from now.

posted November 04, 2015 07:26 AM            

The kicker is that we love each other. Dearly. But it's taken A LOT out of me, to always be the 'big one', and take the high road. And, God knows; if he happens to, then you OWE him for his choice. He never lets you forget it, either. And yet, he's my home. He is. Though I've had to let myself wonder, ironically, most pragmatically, if I wouldn't be happier without the drama, the volatility, and complicated emotional issues. The 24/7 feeling of therapy that can REALLY be a bit much when you're often pegged as 'the one with the issues'. Despite actual therapists pointing out that it's not even true. My husband has gone so far in the past as to get rid of the therapist then!

But he's grown, too. He's grown so much. And, combined with my love of him, and desire to do what's best for my stepdaughter -- I stay.

Maybe you ought to ask WHY you feel that your soul longs for T. What it is about him that's given you this impression. Because, again, an impression is all it is until you know. What specifically brings this feeling?

For me, it was the fact that I'd given up on myself; I'd decided that my personality needed an overhaul, and was allowing my husband to remake my identity as he saw fit. I'd completely forgotten that I was actually quite possibly okay, just as I was. And it's Jack (my boyfriend) who showed me that in a variety of ways, then, a new friend of mine, and my recent costar on the audio drama adaptation of our TV project.

It was his breathing in my presence, being unable to admit that I was 'absolutely stunning' in a dress I'd donned for an event I was attending with him and some friends. I'd forgotten how it felt for a man to find me beautiful and comment upon it.

It was his dubbing me a 'shieldmaiden'; a fellow warrior and survivor, whereas my husband had simply labelled me a victim.

It was never once feeling horrible about myself, in his company; the way I felt loved, despite the form our relationship took. How I hadn't realised until him, that I had NOT felt truly loved in a very, very long time. Even in our earliest exploration of intimacy, bordering upon sexuality, the way he made me feel so safe, so appreciated, and genuinely adored ... no longer exploited, expected of, demanded to be any one way or thing ... it freed me. And I fell in love.

While an undoubted fantasy formed in my mind over time, it was culled from the reality he was actively showing me, expressing how much he wanted better for me, and desperately to love me -- if only I'd let him. If only I'd try. And he always, above all, respected my prior commitments. He never once tried to insert himself. He only remained honest, respectful, and, at times, quietly in the background.

After three years of this, we both decided we wanted to try being more. The foundation was laid in the beginning; all we had to do was try. And so, I did. March 2013, after a long unexpected conversation in which he admitted nothing had changed, I told my husband. He suggested we do so. (Though, frankly, he didn't believe we could, as that'd later be revealed.) That October, we were finally ready.

It's the compromise that saved my own soul. But now you know a bit as to why.

posted November 04, 2015 08:32 AM              

Especially considering that Lancelot was a later addition/ invention, leading the story away from the original sacred marriage between Arthur and Guinevere, which was at the root of it, BEFORE the medieval romance took over of course.

posted November 04, 2015 08:35 AM            

In composite we have 4d conjunction of
Guinevere and Lancelot in 9th house

With my husband I have Arthur Guinevere square
Isn't it interesting?

posted November 04, 2015 08:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I know this is totally offtopic, but just wanted to say I personally prefer Arthur.

Especially considering that Lancelot was a later addition/ invention, leading the story away from the original sacred marriage between Arthur and Guinevere, which was at the root of it, BEFORE the medieval romance took over of course.

I do understand the symbolical relevance of the triangle though. Just originally there was no triangle.

---

Y'know, Ceri, I often noticed a disconnect, too. It seemed that THAT Arthur seemed so far removed from the Arthur that was 'overcome' by Lancelot. Strange, no? Especially if they're the Arthurian Hieros Gamos. Something doesn't jibe there. Besides, what was the need to have the 'gag' of everyone trying to 'get' with Guinevere? I mean, really? It's pretty tasteless.

What was the cause of the addition, out of curiosity? Undoubtedly it's now got weight, even if it was latter in its inclusion. Of course, that only really gives weight to its usage to indicate a triangle. Naturally, this isn't a good thing, as it indicates loyalty being overcome by lust, and if we're dealing with a twin flame marriage, uhhhhhhhhh, no.

I don't care if my old feelings and attraction for my ex-producing partner became overwhelming, thanks to the power of unresolved tension -- no. My husband wouldn't care. And, Jack would say he didn't care. No. Absolutely not. It would be a betrayal upon a DEEP level, and, frankly, I've a feeling that I'd get about as far as kissing him before I pushed away from him and apologised for letting it get that far.

But SEX? No. Not in this universe.

So, if Arthur and Guinevere represent another exemplar of the Hieros Gamos, then I can't fathom how Lancelot could ever have lured her away with romantic notion or lust. Even if he's considerably older than she is. Or the argument is that his age impacted his -- erm -- performance.

Ahem Hello! Doesn't matter. Really. Does not matter. Add to that the sacred marriage and ... no. I'm not buying it, either.

posted November 04, 2015 08:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Neptune29:
Hey Wild Horses..as I told you I totally resonate with your case.
I have these aspects in synastry with him
His Guinevere conjuncts my Lancelot 4d in my 8th house

In composite we have 4d conjunction of
Guinevere and Lancelot in 9th house

---

Absolute max for asteroid synastry is 3°30, which is the equivalent of, say, a 6° conjunction (if your max orb is 8°) or 8°, if it's 10°. Valid at 3°30, yes, but just barely.

I tend to count the truly valid and legitimate ones up to 2°. Maybe 2°30.

Beyond 3°, it's more mildly thematic. If other factors persist, there may be an element that's present in the connexion that reflects it. But it won't be unresolved karma, or anything really binding.

Beyond 3°30, it's ambient. Sure, there may be something that feels kinda like the theme being represented, but it's highly circumstantial and not likely to be very reflective of the couple or its issues or goals.

IF it happens to be, that's either coincidence or present because a midpoint is being formed that is in tighter orb. Typically, exact.

Like the exact midpoint aspects of my SNODE to my ex partner's natal -- EROS/PSYCHE and VENUS/MARS. Two big time energies.

Then our ALMA/JUNO midpoints being conjunct, and the ISIS/OSIRIS in opposite phase, so that they'd form a conjunction in the composite ....

So many beautiful, well constructed lies.

No wonder we thought he had to be my twin flame.

posted November 04, 2015 08:47 PM            

quote:

---

"In situations where you and your twinflame or soulmate care about each other mutually, but are not able to be together due to current relationships or other circumstances, have any of you been able to maintain a platonic friendship or business relationship successfully?
I'm just wondering if there is a way to transmute this overwhelming energy into some other form of relationship when it is not possible for it to be sexual or romantic. I mean, when the sexual and emotional attraction are so strong they almost buckle you, then is it pointless and futile to attempt to change it and channel it into some neutral platonic energy? Have any of you been able to do that?"

---

Nope! And it still hurts, somewhere in the background. :/ Even though I experienced our relationship as neutral / platonic, albeit extremely loving and intense, we can't even stay in touch. We were operating on the basis of creating music together. I thought it was such a beautiful gift that we were brought together because we had obviously been lovers in a past life (or siblings, or both), whatever that means, it was just obvious. But now in this life there was a clear purpose. Except circumstances are still keeping us apart.. And it's one of those things where JUST when you think they're out of your life, they pop up again somewhere somehow. *sigh*
My feelings towards him are so irrationally intense and confusing that I don't even plan on engaging him when he wants to get in touch again. It's too scary for me - and nothing scares me really o.o

posted November 04, 2015 08:56 PM            

What's the real kicker is how my husband's girlfriend is in Phoenix. I am REALLY dreading the day when we're taking the trip to Dallas, through Phoenix, and they want some couple time -- so I get to hang out with him.

BECAUSE THAT WON'T BE DAMNED AWKWARD.

I'm actually happy now. I'm also not made of stone. I'll probably find excuses to hang out with his mom instead. She's very cool. We're total buds now.

posted November 05, 2015 12:00 AM              

Guinevere originally was thought to be the triple fold goddess btw (hence the existence of 3 Guineveres as Arthur`s wife.).

And the sacred marriage actually was not so much a twinflame thing (at least not described as such though we could conclude this), but the emphasis was on the marriage of the Goddess with the earthly King for bestowing fertility and prosperity to the land (and life).

posted November 05, 2015 01:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wild Horses:
The Composite Sun-Saturn conjunction seems to sum that up. There's a feeling of permanence, but also testing, lessons to learn, and a need for patience. Maybe it also indicates not being able to be fully together until we're older, maybe even in old age.

---

My husband and I have SUN conjunct SATURN in composite. It's tough. Certainly no bed of roses. Might be why we feel like, no matter what, we've got to keep this together -- or at least, one of us is always keeping it together at any given moment.

As much as we love each other, as they say, sometimes love just ain't enough. We probably both know we'd very likely be happier with other people. But we won't give it up. We're 'stuck together'.

So, maybe you are kinda 'stuck together'. I guess you've got to wait it out. After all, it was about three solid years before my boyfriend and I were actually together. We'd attempted a relationship before -- only 6 months after meeting -- but it was more of a preliminary exploration.

If you both DO end up staying in each other's lives, for the next several years -- or longer -- then one of two things will happen. You'll both settle into a peaceful platonic dynamic, and, out of nowhere one day, it'll become evident that your feelings are still there. Or, the second option -- you'll both drive each other too crazy to do much of anything in each other's presence.

Man. Monogamy is so dated. I get that it's still the best possible way to raise children, however, in most circumstances. It may be that kids can be raised by a (small) 'village' and turn out just as healthy and happy, as if they were in a nuclear family. We just don't have the data yet. And, that's not to say that the nuclear family is still the best option, when one parent is clearly wanting out, and just 'staying in it for the kids'.

What a mess!

I saw my godfather again for the first time in nearly a decade. He and my mother had a decade-long relationship in the '80s. I had no idea. My mother finally told me the truth when I was fifteen, and it had ended. Amicably. (Mostly.) The circumstances for their relationship is rather complex, and I still don't know all of it. Or even why my father decided that he wanted it to be just them again, after a decade. Though circumstances had certainly changed -- that's undeniable.

While I'm biased, my father is an amazing man. But my mother is an incredible woman, too. They both had to grow. The long and short of it was that she felt relatively ignored; my father was too busy, she was a young, dynamic and beautiful wife to whom my father couldn't pay any attention, money was so tight, and he had to constantly work. When my godfather made a passionate plea that he loved her, the four of them (including my godmother) essentially decided how to make it work. My father felt that my mother didn't have the experiences he'd had, either, and he wanted her to. How amazing is that?

Believe it or not, the biggest conflict was my godmother -- his wife. I know, I know; 'believe it or not? That's almost logical!' Except it isn't. My godmother was feeling ignored by my mother -- because of how much my godfather was monopolising her attention! They were very close friends before that, and remained such during, and after.

So, I grew up surrounded by love. Some of my fondest memories are my godsister and I playing in their yard, as we all enjoyed the pool and the music of the era on the jambox. I had no idea that my mother was in love with two men, and that they were both right there, and best friends, thick as thieves. When I found out, in my early teens, as I'd said, I was ... conflicted. I remember when he would be so drunk, telling me how much he loved my mother and always would. And I always thought it was so strange, and could only be protective of both of my parents -- which was a really terrible spot for a kid to be in, even if I was about thirteen.

Then it made sense. I wasn't sure what I'd felt. I'd always thought that my parents were practically this faerie-tale couple. And yet, it didn't change my opinion of them; I didn't suddenly feel as if they were any less perfect for each other, or that it discounted their marriage. Instead, I was ... surprised. Even intrigued. Something told me that it was important somehow; that they'd made these decisions for reasons I couldn't yet understand, and the most remarkable thing was how much they all still loved each other.

Just this past trip that my husband and I took home, getting to see my godfather again, and being able to introduce him to my stepdaughter ... it was so wonderful. She knows nothing of that -- of course. And, of course, nothing of the way her father and I have chosen to conduct our marriage. Not yet. But they were all so happy. She was curled up on the sofa with her iPhone next to my father, I was in an adjacent chair, my mother across from me, and my godfather across from her.

You could really, really feel the love. The sense of family. How it's never changed.

Hugging him this time was different somehow. I embraced him so tightly, as if trying to telepathically communicate that I understood now, and I love him so, so much; I wanted to thank him for loving us, and for loving my mother so completely, for ... wow. Over 40 years.

So, I have a different view of love, and what's possible. Society may tell me what I 'can't do', but I've seen the alternative. The day will come where I'll be able to tell my stepdaughter. She's going to be fourteen in January; it may be sooner rather than later. We'll know when it's the right time. My mother suggested she's not quite where I was at that age; she's not quite ready yet.

She did do something a few months ago which was unexpected. Her generation, like all generations before, and all that will follow, have their own lingo. This one's kind of borrowed from earlier ones, but it's become more prevalent in hers. They like to 'ship' things, as a means of showing approval for a romantic relationship between two people. They'll often 'ship' their favourite characters, but also their friends.

And, well, she 'ships' us.

She caught us in a particularly warm moment, where we were embracing each other for something -- I don't recall exactly which. He wasn't leaving yet, so it wasn't that. But she appeared on the stair and said, 'I'd totally ship you, if you weren't already married.' Which, I'm not that surprised -- they adore each other -- but the fact that she SAID it was really, really something.

He and I both couldn't help just looking at each other and smiling after that. Because, really, we're proud of our complicated little family; our motley crew.

I don't know what I would've done had he not been here while my husband was out of town at a convention he was working with his girlfriend, who's a good friend of mine. But, he was. And because of it, we all had a wonderful Hallowe'en weekend together, making some powerful bonding memories that'll be with us forever.

Sometimes the straight and narrow isn't the only road to walk. And, sometimes, having the courage to consider that potential truth is what can make all of the difference.

You'll find your way, WH. You will.

posted November 05, 2015 01:33 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wild Horses:
Yeah, I know. I getcha. I was just using that example in terms of the more modern popular mythology of the story. I know it deviates from the original, but in pop culture and mass public consciousness, the triangle myth and Sir Lancelot's inclusion has taken such a firm hold that I think it resonates in a lot of triangular relationships. Anyhoo, that's the reason I stick to that version.

---

I understand that.
It`s just for me it has always been different. Arthur character(s) have always resonated with that deep attachment whereas Lancelot characters, while quite sexy I admit, are just that, some kind of passionate interplay.

(interestingly, even in the myth, after Arthur was dead, Lancelot approached Guinevere and she rejected him, preferring a life in a convent).

posted November 05, 2015 01:45 AM              

(the funny thing, Auby, as I am sure I mentioned already, Dr Faustus Lancelot is exactly opposite my Guinevere. ). On our very very ambient Osiris-Isis-opposition.