Author
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Topic: Bums: $
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and unregistered
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posted October 26, 2006 07:02 PM
How do you guys feel about bums? do you give them money? something to eat? ignore them? think they need to get a job? or dont care?
------------------ "WHATEVER the soul longs for, WILL be attained by the spirit"-Khalil Gibran "The only people I would care to be with now are artists and people who have suffered: those who know what beauty is, and those who know what sorrow is: nobody else interests me."-- Oscar Wilde-- "De Profundis" IP: Logged |
lalalinda Moderator Posts: 3291 From: nevada Registered: Jun 2005
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posted October 26, 2006 07:55 PM
I thought you were talkin about bum-kins but homeless people? yeah, maybe someday if one of mine needs something some kind person will give them a helping hand. what goes around comes around IP: Logged |
Bluemoon Knowflake Posts: 4456 From: Stafford, VA USA Registered: Feb 2005
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posted October 26, 2006 08:06 PM
Well said, Lala IP: Logged |
Bluemoon Knowflake Posts: 4456 From: Stafford, VA USA Registered: Feb 2005
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posted October 26, 2006 08:06 PM
Well said, Lala IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer Knowflake Posts: 3944 From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean Registered: Jun 2003
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posted October 26, 2006 09:43 PM
I live in a very dense urban american city, therefore if I gave to every bum I'd have nothing left. I give to people that my heart tells me are really suffering and hungry.IP: Logged |
lovely* Knowflake Posts: 2141 From: CA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted October 26, 2006 11:27 PM
No one goes hungry in this country. The money is almost always drug money. Try offering someone food who asks for money. They give you stinky eyes or sometimes get down-right angry.. I've had my experience in this area. Once in downtown LA I was with my 3 year old daughter having lunch (I was waiting for hubs to meet me). A man approached me asking for money, literally as I was taking a bite out of my sandwich. I said.."um are you hungry..can I buy you lunch?..." He said " youuu ***** ..what;s your F-ing problem, no I don't want your food..etc etc.. it scared the he11 out of my daughter. I was so upset I was shaking. We have a wonderful shelter in the town I live/ They provide showers, job assistance, a bed, food.. so anyone asking me for money is asking the wrong person. IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound Knowflake Posts: 1205 From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake Registered: Jan 2002
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posted October 27, 2006 03:17 AM
lovely* ~ In most instances, I think you're right. I have a lot of experience with this. Last year I lived in a small city that for the most part was very affluent, but also had a large homeless population. It was the norm to be approached by homeless individuals several times a day. I remenber one afternoon when I was driving. I was at a stop light and this guy was holding a sign that said, "Will work for food or gas money." So I figure, ok, he may actually want food. And I happened to have some (good) food in my car, so I rolled down the window and offered it to him. He literally LAUGHED at me!! Not a nice laugh, either, by the way, but a kind of nasty one. He was like "heheh.. uh no thanks, sweetheart." I felt like the most naive person on earth. I was like, "boy, do I have a lot to learn about the world..." So sometimes I gave money, and sometimes I looked the other way, not wanting to feed others' addictions. It's tough. (Especially if you have a bleeding heart like me, lol). I guess in the end you just have to trust your gut, and do what feels right. IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 7178 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 04:39 AM
I dont like the term "bums". It is utterly devoid of human dignity, and when we degrade anyone, we degrade ourselves. I prefer "homeless".It's true, many people will use the money to feed their addictions - that is, to keep from getting sick. If you've never been junk sick or had to face delirium tremens (particularly while living on the street, alone) you probably have no idea what you are asking them to do, or if you yourself could do it. Not that it matters whether you could do it - we are, after all, all different, and what you can handle may be more or less than what another can handle, and who are we to make that judgment? And even if someone is not addicted, you are asking them to forego the thing which keeps their psychological pain at bay. Do you know the memories of a horriffic childhood that will surface? Do you know how sensitive some people are to such things? How desperately, how compulsively, they desire some protection from them? They would sooner go hungry than be without the means of their intoxication. The emotional anguish is worse than the physical hunger. What would you go hungry for? Nobody wants to think about it, nobody wants to deal with it. "It is not MY problem," we say. What we are saying is, "Let the sick cure themselves". It is the so-called realists who are the dreamers, if they really believe these people can heal themselves; that the lame can arise and walk, or the addict can put down the drug. I agree, feeding their addictions isnt the answer. I dont know what the answer is. But I know enough not to blame the victims. The fact is that, beyond a certain point, the more a person needs our help, the less we want to help him or her. The psychological pain they feel leads them to a place where they have no empathy, where they are bitter and angry, and so desperate for relief that they will lash out at a child or a person who offers them food (in place of the money that would buy the drugs which would assuage, for a time, their horrible emotional agony). I'm sure they'd ask for money to buy drugs and alcohol, if they thought you could see things their way. But no one understands, so they have to lie. I dont blame them. They are addicted, they are in pain. But what is OUR excuse for not finding a way to help them? It is a fact of human nature (ask any psychologist) that the people most in need of help, are the least capable of seeking it out, or even accepting it, when it is offered. It is so easy for us to blame them. But the truth is, we only blame what we dont understand. Understanding a person never leads to judgment; it only leads to admiration, or compassion, or both. And, yes, I do have a Pisces South Node.
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geminstone Knowflake Posts: 1007 From: Golden, CO Registered: Nov 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 09:34 AM
HSC ~ I agree with all that you have posted above. Thanks To a South Node Pisces From a Pisces Moon ~ geminstone
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sue g Knowflake Posts: 8591 From: former land of the leprechaun Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 09:40 AM
I dont like the term "bums" in this context either...it sounds harsh, somehow...they are, after all human beings, like all of us... That could be anyone of us....? IP: Logged |
1scorp Knowflake Posts: 2251 From: Registered: Feb 2003
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posted October 27, 2006 10:30 AM
One night while out shopping, I was walking to my car... I looked behind me and a man was standing right there.He was clearly homeless... very polite... very humbled... He told me that he was ashamed to ask... (which could just be something to make it sound better... but no, he had honesty in his eyes) but wanted to know if I could spare a couple of dollars. We talked for a minute or two... I gave him $20.00. He never told me what he intended to do with the money, nor did I ask. He went across the street to a bar. I didn't judge him as he never lied to me about what he intended to do... and I don't think that he was a bad person. It's hard to say what life had thrown at this man... could be an addiction... he may not have any family/friend support... who knows... he could just be a "bum". I gave it in good faith that I was seeing "him" truthfully... and I still don't think that I handed money to some shady man. Edit - I volunteer what little spare time I have to the community center which helps find job placement, feed and provide clothing for the homeless. I work up to 65 - 70 hours a week... but I remain mindful to stay humble, as it could be any of our family/friends or even ourselves in that position. ___________________________________________ Scorpio sun, venus, mars, mercury, and uranus Libra moon, pluto, and asc. IP: Logged |
sue g Knowflake Posts: 8591 From: former land of the leprechaun Registered: Sep 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 12:14 PM
1Scorp..... Kind soul you are..... Makes me proud to be a Plutonian.....xxx IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound Knowflake Posts: 1205 From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake Registered: Jan 2002
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posted October 27, 2006 01:26 PM
HSC~ Just because I do not want to feed others' addictions does not mean I am being judgmental and blaming them for having those addictions. That is your assumption. I feel a lot of compassion towards homeless people. But like I said, it's tough to know what is the right thing to do. IP: Logged |
lovegoblin Knowflake Posts: 467 From: norfolk, virginia USA Registered: May 2006
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posted October 27, 2006 01:53 PM
i usually give them food or money unless i really think they are really running a scam. my intuition is good about that type of thing. i am sure most didn't dream they would be homeless and making a living through begging when they were little and dreaming dreams of what they would be and do when they grew up. there are some good facilities in some cities where they try to help those who are homeless become independent. maybe if you feel it not right to give to an individual person you could give to an organization that helps the homeless.IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 7178 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 01:53 PM
hi gooberz -I can see how you might assume from my response that I was speaking about or to you personally, but I wasn't. I'm glad to hear you are not judgmental. , hsc
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Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 7178 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 02:03 PM
geminstone - IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 7178 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 02:05 PM
That's awesome, 1scorp! You are my new hero.
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Isis Knowflake Posts: 1922 From: CA Registered: Jan 2004
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posted October 27, 2006 02:10 PM
I used to give them money. Then I started taking food into the city and trying to give it away. I got yelled at and nearly spit upon. I used to go clubbing in the City a lot and would end up having convos w/ the homeless folks after the bars closed. Most of them were actually very nice people - and most of the ones I talked to have intentionally chosen a life on the streets for various reasons. IMO the most common reason people are on the streets isn't drug addiction or alcholism, it's mental problems. A lot of those people need psychiatric help to varying degrees. Not a rehab. Plus, while I sympathize with the torture someone goes through with withdrawals, I'm not going to enable someone's drug addiction. I do believe what comes around goes around,but there are other ways to send out good karma besides giving a drug addict drug money IMHO. IP: Logged |
1scorp Knowflake Posts: 2251 From: Registered: Feb 2003
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posted October 27, 2006 02:30 PM
Isis: You're right. I forgot to mention mental instability. __________________________________________ Scorpio sun, venus, mars, mercury, and uranus Libra moon, pluto, and asc. IP: Logged |
PhoenixFlight Knowflake Posts: 61 From: MN USA Registered: Oct 2006
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posted October 27, 2006 10:25 PM
I, once, ecountered a lady who had a sign "will work for food". I happened to have hot sandwiches in the car, so I offered them to her. She took them thankfully. I don't know if she was homeless or not.I do know that there are sooo many reasons a person could/would become homeless. There have been many brilliant things said in this thread. I, also, think that it's a gut feeling & individual basis type thing. I've seen DTs in action, and I know that treatment only works for a small percentage of ppl. I can't say that I wouldn't give for that. I know that many mentally ill ppl are on the streets cuz in this country they don't know what to do with them. I know that some of the homeless shelters are more dangerous than the streets. Like HSC, I wish there were better answers to the homeless situations. My heart goes out - yes, even to addicts. ------------------ When the student is ready the teacher will appear. AKA - Kim Rogers IP: Logged |
noreenz Knowflake Posts: 1229 From: No.CAL Registered: Feb 2004
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posted October 31, 2006 03:10 PM
This is really a touchy subject...many diverse opinions...........for me, at this time in my life, I can...therefore I do, without question, without judgement. IP: Logged |
pidaua Knowflake Posts: 7314 From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL Registered: May 2002
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posted October 31, 2006 06:47 PM
I agree with what Isis said. So many of our homeless people are suffering from mental problems, whether they are traumatically, genetically, or drug induced. I cannot judge them, but like others said here, I will not enable them to feed their addiction. Asking me to do that feels as appalling as someone may feel when we don't give money to feed the addiction. I live in a community where we have affluent people and a generation of homeless hippies that want to live off the street. We also have homeless people that can't succeed on their own due to their health or mental issues. I do not give the hippies money- it is their choice (and I know this because I talk to them in the bars- the culture is young and living on the edge) the other homeless people I have helped. I have given clothes, food and money- until the one I helped the most stole money from me and tried to walk off with a jacket of mine that was given to me by my father for his retirement. I vowed to never help him again, mainly because he took from me when I gave freely and he lied to me about what happened to his clothes. He went back on drugs, sold his clothes and wanted more. I don't feel that WE should be judged for making a conscious decision NOT to give money to further ones escape from painful memories no more than I would feel guilty for not purchasing a gun to help someone kill themselves. PS.. the word "bum" is highly offensive and should not be used to describe the unfortunate. When I hear the word "bum" I think of an overly spoiled college kid that doesn't want to work or attend school but would rather sit on his a$$ and play video games. IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Knowflake Posts: 7178 From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 31, 2006 09:11 PM
For the record, I dont think anyone on this thread has suggested that we ought to give money to support addictions. I said only that I understood why they lied, not that I would buy them drugs.Mercury in retrograde anyone? IP: Logged |
lovely* Knowflake Posts: 2141 From: CA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted November 01, 2006 01:09 PM
I don't know. We have resources available for the mentally ill, the addicts. We have methadone clinics for those physically addicted. I believe in giving money to honest charities and allowing them to disburse the money as needed. Again, there is help out there, and the men and women running these shelters have oftentimes been addicted or homeless themselves. You can lead a horse water but you can't force it to drink. (is that how that saying goes?) Speaking of mental illness, we have a homeless lady who lives near our community center park. She is clean, well dressed, and her cheeks are healthy and rosy like santa clause. She's a wonderful soul, always leaning down and cooing at the baby when we go for walks. No big deal. She likes where she is, she chooses this life. No one can help her because she doesn't want help. I don't feel my heart bleed for her because to do so, would somehow presume her life is less than. I've often pondered the freedom these folks have. This lady pushes 5 carts, 1 at a time, from place to place, all day long. I would say she qualifies as a "mental illness" case, but she's content. That being said, everyone had good stuff to say on this subject. I liked your post HSC. You seem to have first hand experience. But it may be your pisces node i'm hearing! Love to everyone!! IP: Logged |
PhoenixFlight Knowflake Posts: 61 From: MN USA Registered: Oct 2006
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posted November 01, 2006 06:56 PM
No, I don't normally advocate feeding addictions. I guess my decision would have to come from a gut instinct. Plus I don't live in an area with a high, or even, moderate homeless population.Pidua, I totally agree with your definition of a "bum". ------------------ When the student is ready the teacher will appear. AKA - Kim Rogers IP: Logged | |