posted January 25, 2007 07:57 PM         

It's just so frustrating. I live in a military town. 5 soldiers from here was killed in Iraq last week. This isn't the first time in this war there's been soldiers from here killed, but these ones have been on my mind a lot the past week. I don't know how their families can cope with this, losing their sons and husbands and fathers in a war that appears more and more pointless everyday.

The president wants to send more soldiers over there.

So more will get killed. Or come back with traumatic brain injuries, or amputations, or PTSD.

Or simply come back to crappy VA benefits, low paying jobs and unemployment. Around here, that means a lot of them will be coming back to alcohol, drugs and gangs.

posted January 25, 2007 09:30 PM         

I was in the first Desert Storm, and I feel what you're saying.

You know, one country that produces one of the largest amount of terrorists is Saudi Arabia. And Yemen too, and I'm like, bring them democracy. Change their governemnt. I mean what is Bin Laden, Saudi Arabian! Geesh. And believe me, WE KNEW, the first time around...us soldiers. Because we knew there was no threat to national security, just oil. And man everyone was amazed by how many of OUR weapons that were found in Iraq the first time around. Just fields and fields of them. I was actually detailed to guard one of those ammo points. We were llke, dang, that's our stuff! It was a trip.
So to me it's apparent. Sadaam got greedy with the oil fields, hence, that's why he burnt the ones in Kuwait, and the BUSHES, the oil people didn't like it. Because hey, the Americans put Sadaam in power anyway. And he forgot who buttered his bread. We're in a sad time when American corporation can use an ARMY/A MILITARY to work in there interest by securing the highest seat of government. And to exploit our anger and pain after 911 by LYING, to convince those "red-blooded" flag flying confeds that the US is bringing a better way of life to these people because they WANT it, is sad. Bottom line, we know nothing about the type of tribalism that's going on in Iraq. We know nothing about that level of religion effecting, politics and society, where choice...

posted January 25, 2007 09:41 PM         

quote:

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bring them democracy. Change their governemnt.

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Why? because ours work so well? give me a break. Imperialism never works, we should mind our own damn business. Why should we change their gov't? bring them "democracy"? maybe if we worked on our own people, our own gov't, we wouldnt have the problems we have....

..Its about OIL, and money, its been this way from day freakin one, IM so tired of everyone acting surprised....was everyone really that dense?

another thing... we always have to say "poor soliders" to even disagree with the war, without the BS,
f-that, I say POOR iraqis, who have to deal with this sh1t, they dont deserve this.

Agh, I try to stay away from politics most of the time, coz it p1sses me off way too much.

posted January 25, 2007 10:00 PM         

I also would like to add that I for one am not surprised about the real reasons for invasion - I have known this a while.

I do agree with you Eatbooks on the concept of so called 'democracy' - this is a falicy and only serves to keep us believing that we have some say in what goes on on a global scale - so many people were against the war!! I admire the guy outside the Houses of Parliament here - he's been protesting constantly for several years!

posted January 25, 2007 11:24 PM         

I understand what you are saying, Natural111 - a few years ago, I participated in a lecture series at my university that dealt with contemporary ethical issues, and one of the lectures we had Desert Storms vets come and give their side of the story. The saddest thing about it was they were telling us ultra liberal academic types exactly what we had feared had happened over there.

posted January 26, 2007 12:08 PM         

Especially this....

quote:

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Imperialism never works, we should mind our own damn business. Why should we change their gov't? bring them "democracy"? maybe if we worked on our own people, our own gov't, we wouldnt have the problems we have

---

quote:

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another thing... we always have to say "poor soliders" to even disagree with the war, without the BS,
f-that, I say POOR iraqis, who have to deal with this sh1t, they dont deserve this.

---

There would be no mortality rate of the soldiers if this war hadn't been entered in the first place. Now as for the Iraqis, they never asked for this and they have to deal with it everyday.

Onto democracy....why does America feel that if it doesn't like a certain gov't that it can get rid of it. The U.S. gov't is far from perfect and yet they feel have the right to judge others gov't's.

posted January 26, 2007 02:01 PM         

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6YiZgHei8

posted January 26, 2007 02:45 PM         

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls

posted January 26, 2007 04:08 PM         

But you know, I don't think corporation and big money ever counted on Americans getting as intelligent and educated as we are getting. That's why they came up with the definition "liberal" as opposed to their "conservatism" Because liberal means you're educated, you've take the blinders off, you've seen the old America and see that it only benefits a select few. Liberalism means you ask, well, hey there, what about me! And even better, what about him and her! What about us! I can't quite put my finger on conservatism. Other than, it's usually supported by those who want to maintain a 1950's sort of Post War World II society.

Okay, now I'll stop....

I was about to get into idealism... and THAT society really never existing... Leave it to Beaver, Father's Knows Best, we're all illusions sold to Americans to make them feel safe, and righteous and smart, and superior. When the reality of people's existence were broken homes, alcoholism, abuse, physical and sexual, and I can go on.

And I think that's what conservatism is, an illusion. People who fail to see the truth for some reason. Well, I guess for the same reason most would rather not deal with the truth... it can be devastating.

Okay....
I deleted my blog. But this is the stuff I used to spend my time writing, which is why I got rid of the blog
As soon as I did that, I finished editing my script! LOL.

Peace,
The Ranter

posted January 28, 2007 01:48 PM         

quote:

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I was in the first Desert Storm, and I feel what you're saying.

You know, one country that produces one of the largest amount of terrorists is Saudi Arabia. And Yemen too, and I'm like, bring them democracy. Change their governemnt. I mean what is Bin Laden, Saudi Arabian! Geesh. And believe me, WE KNEW, the first time around...us soldiers. Because we knew there was no threat to national security, just oil. And man everyone was amazed by how many of OUR weapons that were found in Iraq the first time around. Just fields and fields of them. I was actually detailed to guard one of those ammo points. We were llke, dang, that's our stuff! It was a trip...Natural111

---

My, my, how interesting Natural111. You know, I've been hanging on your every word....that you were detailed to guard Saddam's weapons dumps.....where American military hardware was on conspicuous display.....inside Iraq.

This is infinitely interesting Natural111....given that during Desert Storm...the first Gulf War.....neither the United States nor coalition military forces entered into, invaded, the country of Iraq.

So Natural111, how is it you are able to come here and give first hand testimony of finding a staggering amount of US supplied arms inside Iraq in the aftermath of the 1st Gulf War...Desert Storm?

Now Natural111, Saddam had T-72 Soviet tanks and armored personnel carriers. Saddam had French and Russian fighter jets. Saddam had French and perhaps some Russian artillery. Saddam had Soviet designed SCUD missiles. Saddam had a collection of Soviet, Chinese and other mortars. Saddam had small arms produced by the Soviet Union and China...AK-47s.

posted January 28, 2007 08:43 PM         

And I'm not.

I know where I went. I know what I experienced. And I know what I saw.

Deal with it.

But let me just add for the heck of it that Iraq is bigger than Bagdahd and borders Saudi. And we were in the outskirts of Iraq in first Gulf War. They confiscated fields of Sadaams weapons then. It appears you believe their hypocrisy. And you speak like someone who hadn't been there.

posted January 28, 2007 09:11 PM         

i did time in the I.D.F. .. saw two coflicts thru .. 1973 in the golan heights and the 1980's excursion into lebanon ..
i believe what your saying .. .. .. i tried to find ops maps from desert storm on the www .. ie maybe one with arrows pointing the moves out .. but couldn't find one .. but i don't remember the western forces going into iraqi territory itself although i could be wrong .. seem to remember some images from across the border .. but they would have moved huge arms dumps just inside northern kuwait .. it don't matter really .. am sure i saw some video from just inside iraqi territory .. .. some of those early mideast conflicts were a real weapons test as in western tech versus russian tech .. .. remember in 73 it was found out just how dangerous the hydraulic fluid in the tanks could be when on fire .. .. i still have the usa flyers shirt from 73 .. the flame retardent material .. still as good a new :-))

be well ..
~ HD ~

posted January 28, 2007 09:28 PM         

If Saddam had had US manufactured weapons systems, he would have used them..instead of the second rate stuff he did use.

For instance, US and Saudi F-15s and F-16s routinely blew his MiGs and French Mirages out of the air..to the point he had what was left flown to Iran to stop them from being destroyed..he never got them back BTW.

US Abrams tanks routinely blew the turrets off his Soviet made T-72s.

His artillery was not a match for US artillery in accuracy or rate of fire.

Further Natural111 I saw in glorious living color the details of tank, artillery and fighter engagements and I didn't see a single profile or image matching any US military armaments.

Now you may wish to not "get in a spat" and you may wish to not take this further and you may wish to claim Saddam had US military equipment...he didn't use...on the Saudi border or just within Iraq but the facts are that coalition forces were not sent to Kuwait from Saudi Arabia to launch an invasion of Iraq...and didn't. So your recollection of being inside Iraq guarding Saddam's armament dumps don't jive with the historical record of the Gulf War.

Others have attempted to assert here that the US "armed" Saddam and couldn't supply a single fact to back up their statement...except that the US sold Saddam some Bell helicopters in the 1980s. But those were not military helicopters, not troop carriers, not helicopter gun ships, not armored and were totally unsuited for any military combat use.

Now, if I had been in Iraq...I would know where I was in Iraq.

If I had seen US manufactured military armaments, I would know what the hell they were..by type and designation.

Why don't you?

The real question of "who dares" should be directed at you. You've come here with a BS story attempting to suggest the US first armed Saddam and then had to fight against the same weapons we supposedly sold him. Weapons you can't identify by type of designation...or the location inside Iraq where you claim to have been.