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Author Topic:   I'm so sick of this war
Gemini Nymph
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posted January 25, 2007 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
I know it doesn't need to be said - I just feel like saying it.

It's just so frustrating. I live in a military town. 5 soldiers from here was killed in Iraq last week. This isn't the first time in this war there's been soldiers from here killed, but these ones have been on my mind a lot the past week. I don't know how their families can cope with this, losing their sons and husbands and fathers in a war that appears more and more pointless everyday.

The president wants to send more soldiers over there.

So more will get killed. Or come back with traumatic brain injuries, or amputations, or PTSD.

Or simply come back to crappy VA benefits, low paying jobs and unemployment. Around here, that means a lot of them will be coming back to alcohol, drugs and gangs.

I feel like our president has no grasp of the fact that every soldier is a human being, with his or her own life, and that life will be dramatically altered forever by the experience of this war. He'll get to retire on a comfty retirement package as ex-prez, complete with his own damn overpriced memorial library and secuirty detail, while countless numbers of these soldiers he sent to Iraq to build his own "legacy" will pay for this war for the rest of their lives, if not with their lives.

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Azalaksh
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Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 25, 2007 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
I'm with you, GN. My generation either went off to 'Nam or went to Canada.....

I can't help but think that $350,000,000,000+ in OUR TAX DOLLARS could have been better spent in THIS country..... we will be paying for this war for the rest of our lives and so will our children, and we'll also be paying for the Commander-in-Chief (and his security detail) for the rest of his cushy misguided (bending over backwards to be somewhat diplomatic with that term) life.....

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WaterBaby
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Posts: 32
From: London, UK
Registered: Jan 2007

posted January 25, 2007 09:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WaterBaby     Edit/Delete Message
I agree. This whole issue is very upsetting. I feel for everyone who is suffering and for those who have lost their lives, from the countries who have sent those young people out there and for the people of Iraq who are suffering so terribly. Both Bush and Blair show no empathy whatsoever - the worst part about this sorry affair is that it was illegal in the first place and we were all lied to (mind you we are every day by the powers that be). I think we all know the real reasons behind this invasion....

------------------
'You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Perhaps some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one' Just about sums my aspirations up for Mother Earth :o)

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mysticaldream
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posted January 25, 2007 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mysticaldream     Edit/Delete Message
I agree completely.

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Natural111
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Posts: 343
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted January 25, 2007 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Natural111     Edit/Delete Message
GeminiNymph,

I was in the first Desert Storm, and I feel what you're saying.

You know, one country that produces one of the largest amount of terrorists is Saudi Arabia. And Yemen too, and I'm like, bring them democracy. Change their governemnt. I mean what is Bin Laden, Saudi Arabian! Geesh. And believe me, WE KNEW, the first time around...us soldiers. Because we knew there was no threat to national security, just oil. And man everyone was amazed by how many of OUR weapons that were found in Iraq the first time around. Just fields and fields of them. I was actually detailed to guard one of those ammo points. We were llke, dang, that's our stuff! It was a trip.
So to me it's apparent. Sadaam got greedy with the oil fields, hence, that's why he burnt the ones in Kuwait, and the BUSHES, the oil people didn't like it. Because hey, the Americans put Sadaam in power anyway. And he forgot who buttered his bread. We're in a sad time when American corporation can use an ARMY/A MILITARY to work in there interest by securing the highest seat of government. And to exploit our anger and pain after 911 by LYING, to convince those "red-blooded" flag flying confeds that the US is bringing a better way of life to these people because they WANT it, is sad. Bottom line, we know nothing about the type of tribalism that's going on in Iraq. We know nothing about that level of religion effecting, politics and society, where choice...

Okay, I'm going to stop now!
Whew... another rant... See, I'm getting them under control. Must be the Yoga
LOL.

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eatbooks
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posted January 25, 2007 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eatbooks     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
bring them democracy. Change their governemnt.

Why? because ours work so well? give me a break. Imperialism never works, we should mind our own damn business. Why should we change their gov't? bring them "democracy"? maybe if we worked on our own people, our own gov't, we wouldnt have the problems we have....

..Its about OIL, and money, its been this way from day freakin one, IM so tired of everyone acting surprised....was everyone really that dense?

another thing... we always have to say "poor soliders" to even disagree with the war, without the BS,
f-that, I say POOR iraqis, who have to deal with this sh1t, they dont deserve this.

Agh, I try to stay away from politics most of the time, coz it p1sses me off way too much.

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WaterBaby
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Posts: 32
From: London, UK
Registered: Jan 2007

posted January 25, 2007 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WaterBaby     Edit/Delete Message
I think a life lost is a life lost - doesn't matter whether it is a soldier or an Iraqi citizen - the fact is that many of these men and women are young and impressionable and have been utilised as disposable resources. We should feel compassion for everyone.

I also would like to add that I for one am not surprised about the real reasons for invasion - I have known this a while.

I do agree with you Eatbooks on the concept of so called 'democracy' - this is a falicy and only serves to keep us believing that we have some say in what goes on on a global scale - so many people were against the war!! I admire the guy outside the Houses of Parliament here - he's been protesting constantly for several years!

------------------
'You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. Perhaps some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one' Just about sums my aspirations up for Mother Earth :o)

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MysticMelody
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posted January 25, 2007 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
I have a friend who was in Desert Storm and I can say that the "crappy VA benefits" is the absolute truth. I also intuitively agree with the rest of what you said, Gemini Nymph, although I gave up on politics as a way to make a difference in my early twenties.

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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 25, 2007 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
Although I appreciate everyone's thoughts and responses, I didn't really want to debate the politics of this war. If that was so, I would have posted this in GU.

I understand what you are saying, Natural111 - a few years ago, I participated in a lecture series at my university that dealt with contemporary ethical issues, and one of the lectures we had Desert Storms vets come and give their side of the story. The saddest thing about it was they were telling us ultra liberal academic types exactly what we had feared had happened over there.

Anyhow, I just needed to vent a bit about my anxieties and fears I have for our soldiers and for our nation in the near future as we cope with the aftermath of this war here at home. I admire our troops for their willingness to serve our country and make sacrifices. I only wish they could be rightfully compensated for it and that their sacrifices will mean more than just oil, defense contracts, and a shamefully incompetant president's "legacy."

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Sweet Stars
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Posts: 1098
From: New York City
Registered: Dec 2006

posted January 25, 2007 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sweet Stars     Edit/Delete Message
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only American who feels this way.

I hate war.

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Dulce Luna
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Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted January 26, 2007 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Well said Eatbooks.

Especially this....

quote:
Imperialism never works, we should mind our own damn business. Why should we change their gov't? bring them "democracy"? maybe if we worked on our own people, our own gov't, we wouldnt have the problems we have

quote:
another thing... we always have to say "poor soliders" to even disagree with the war, without the BS,
f-that, I say POOR iraqis, who have to deal with this sh1t, they dont deserve this.


There would be no mortality rate of the soldiers if this war hadn't been entered in the first place. Now as for the Iraqis, they never asked for this and they have to deal with it everyday.

Onto democracy....why does America feel that if it doesn't like a certain gov't that it can get rid of it. The U.S. gov't is far from perfect and yet they feel have the right to judge others gov't's.

It sucks because I thought Imperialism ended in the 70's with Portugal. Guess not.

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted January 26, 2007 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
I'm tired of this war too.

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Sweet Stars
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From: New York City
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posted January 26, 2007 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sweet Stars     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiUTWsKqmic

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CrankyCap
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From: Powell, Ohio, United States
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posted January 26, 2007 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CrankyCap     Edit/Delete Message
Ditto for me. This war has pi*sed me off from day one, and continues to pi*s me off. I don't even bother watching the news anymore. It's been so long now that we've become complacent. "What? Oh 3 more soldiers killed today? 20 more Iraqi citizens? Huh. Not really that bad of a day I guess. What's for dinner honey?"

It's sickening.

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SLAYER
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From: Resurrected
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posted January 26, 2007 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SLAYER     Edit/Delete Message
This is all about Globalism. It gained speed after the industrial revolution and development of technology. Global capital dominates the world now, and government of United States is in need of shaping the world for its own needs which are accessing to the oil and water resources, and a sovereignty battle over eurasia, so it is attempting to make changes in political maps. This Globalism is being shaped for all United States and its multi-national companies interest. European Union follows them as a competitor. I personally think there is no favorable atmosphere for Globalism in actual world, because as the world continues to be globalized, the distinction between North and South goes up. Instead of unifying, it creates division. 'Divide and rule' tactic is being applied under the name of Globalism. In the U.S and Canada, diversities are being dissolved under the name of unison and integration, however when it comes to countries like Iraq, the imperialist powers use multi-cultural features to drag those kind of countries into civil war, and thus both soldiers and poor folks in Iraq suffers! I intensely dream of rebellious mass action against the Big Middle-East Project.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
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posted January 26, 2007 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRoDRE1vaS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6YiZgHei8

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Happy Dragon
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posted January 26, 2007 02:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Happy Dragon     Edit/Delete Message
He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls

But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on

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Azalaksh
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Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 26, 2007 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
I remember when Donovan did Buffy Ste Marie's "protest song".....

He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put the end to war.

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Natural111
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Posts: 343
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted January 26, 2007 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Natural111     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, HSC...
Wow.
What can I say...
What can we say after that?
And now big money has gotten smarter over the last 27 years.
Manipulate the people in order to put "our" own man in the highest seat of government.
See, and this why I can't fully accept Arnold S. as our governor because he's corporations man. And he's working heavily on their behalf. Check out the documentary, "The Smartest Guys in the Room". About the Enron scandal. Very enlightening.

But you know, I don't think corporation and big money ever counted on Americans getting as intelligent and educated as we are getting. That's why they came up with the definition "liberal" as opposed to their "conservatism" Because liberal means you're educated, you've take the blinders off, you've seen the old America and see that it only benefits a select few. Liberalism means you ask, well, hey there, what about me! And even better, what about him and her! What about us! I can't quite put my finger on conservatism. Other than, it's usually supported by those who want to maintain a 1950's sort of Post War World II society.

Okay, now I'll stop....

I was about to get into idealism... and THAT society really never existing... Leave it to Beaver, Father's Knows Best, we're all illusions sold to Americans to make them feel safe, and righteous and smart, and superior. When the reality of people's existence were broken homes, alcoholism, abuse, physical and sexual, and I can go on.

And I think that's what conservatism is, an illusion. People who fail to see the truth for some reason. Well, I guess for the same reason most would rather not deal with the truth... it can be devastating.

Okay....
I deleted my blog. But this is the stuff I used to spend my time writing, which is why I got rid of the blog
As soon as I did that, I finished editing my script! LOL.

Peace,
The Ranter

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AcousticGod
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Posts: 11943
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
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posted January 26, 2007 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Just got through the first video Steve. I hope we hear some echos of those sentiments and values in the next election.

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Battle of Evermore
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posted January 26, 2007 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Battle of Evermore     Edit/Delete Message
Oh God, I know. My boyfriend is in the Marines and I just about cry every time I think about him being deployed... and I know it's probably comming. I'm not a cry baby at all, but I don't think I could handle that very well. I realize what the president is saying, but I think that we're just ******* them off even more by staying in their country for so long. You can no eleminate ALL of the terrorists no matter what you do. It is impossible. Not to mention the fact that it's just ******* off Americans too. I have a big argument all about it that I have with people all of the time because I live in Alabama. I'm not even going to go into it though... I can't think about death right now. A girl from my school just committed suicide, and my friend is taking it so hard... he won't even talk to anybody...

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jwhop
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Posts: 9417
From: Madeira Beach, Florida
Registered: Aug 2001

posted January 28, 2007 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I was in the first Desert Storm, and I feel what you're saying.

You know, one country that produces one of the largest amount of terrorists is Saudi Arabia. And Yemen too, and I'm like, bring them democracy. Change their governemnt. I mean what is Bin Laden, Saudi Arabian! Geesh. And believe me, WE KNEW, the first time around...us soldiers. Because we knew there was no threat to national security, just oil. And man everyone was amazed by how many of OUR weapons that were found in Iraq the first time around. Just fields and fields of them. I was actually detailed to guard one of those ammo points. We were llke, dang, that's our stuff! It was a trip...Natural111


My, my, how interesting Natural111. You know, I've been hanging on your every word....that you were detailed to guard Saddam's weapons dumps.....where American military hardware was on conspicuous display.....inside Iraq.

This is infinitely interesting Natural111....given that during Desert Storm...the first Gulf War.....neither the United States nor coalition military forces entered into, invaded, the country of Iraq.

So Natural111, how is it you are able to come here and give first hand testimony of finding a staggering amount of US supplied arms inside Iraq in the aftermath of the 1st Gulf War...Desert Storm?

Now Natural111, Saddam had T-72 Soviet tanks and armored personnel carriers. Saddam had French and Russian fighter jets. Saddam had French and perhaps some Russian artillery. Saddam had Soviet designed SCUD missiles. Saddam had a collection of Soviet, Chinese and other mortars. Saddam had small arms produced by the Soviet Union and China...AK-47s.

Now Natural111, kindly tell us what US supplied military arms you were guarding inside Iraq...by name and type...and exactly where inside Iraq you were guarding them after the 1st Gulf War...Desert Storm.


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Natural111
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Posts: 343
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted January 28, 2007 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Natural111     Edit/Delete Message
Normally, I don't get into these spats.

And I'm not.

I know where I went. I know what I experienced. And I know what I saw.

Deal with it.

But let me just add for the heck of it that Iraq is bigger than Bagdahd and borders Saudi. And we were in the outskirts of Iraq in first Gulf War. They confiscated fields of Sadaams weapons then. It appears you believe their hypocrisy. And you speak like someone who hadn't been there.

I'm actually peeved right now. How dare you!
HOW DARE YOU!!! I served my time in the hell hole and have NOTHING to gain by lying here. NOTHING!

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Happy Dragon
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Registered: Apr 2005

posted January 28, 2007 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Happy Dragon     Edit/Delete Message
Natural111 .. hi ..

i did time in the I.D.F. .. saw two coflicts thru .. 1973 in the golan heights and the 1980's excursion into lebanon ..
i believe what your saying .. .. .. i tried to find ops maps from desert storm on the www .. ie maybe one with arrows pointing the moves out .. but couldn't find one .. but i don't remember the western forces going into iraqi territory itself although i could be wrong .. seem to remember some images from across the border .. but they would have moved huge arms dumps just inside northern kuwait .. it don't matter really .. am sure i saw some video from just inside iraqi territory .. .. some of those early mideast conflicts were a real weapons test as in western tech versus russian tech .. .. remember in 73 it was found out just how dangerous the hydraulic fluid in the tanks could be when on fire .. .. i still have the usa flyers shirt from 73 .. the flame retardent material .. still as good a new :-))

be well ..
~ HD ~

------------------
.. astrology and audio files ..
~ http://www.happydragon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jkbx/audiofls.html ~

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jwhop
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Posts: 9417
From: Madeira Beach, Florida
Registered: Aug 2001

posted January 28, 2007 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Actually Natural111, Saddam had a lot of weapons...most of which were Soviet Union/Russian manufactured.

If Saddam had had US manufactured weapons systems, he would have used them..instead of the second rate stuff he did use.

For instance, US and Saudi F-15s and F-16s routinely blew his MiGs and French Mirages out of the air..to the point he had what was left flown to Iran to stop them from being destroyed..he never got them back BTW.

US Abrams tanks routinely blew the turrets off his Soviet made T-72s.

His artillery was not a match for US artillery in accuracy or rate of fire.

Further Natural111 I saw in glorious living color the details of tank, artillery and fighter engagements and I didn't see a single profile or image matching any US military armaments.

Now you may wish to not "get in a spat" and you may wish to not take this further and you may wish to claim Saddam had US military equipment...he didn't use...on the Saudi border or just within Iraq but the facts are that coalition forces were not sent to Kuwait from Saudi Arabia to launch an invasion of Iraq...and didn't. So your recollection of being inside Iraq guarding Saddam's armament dumps don't jive with the historical record of the Gulf War.

Others have attempted to assert here that the US "armed" Saddam and couldn't supply a single fact to back up their statement...except that the US sold Saddam some Bell helicopters in the 1980s. But those were not military helicopters, not troop carriers, not helicopter gun ships, not armored and were totally unsuited for any military combat use.

Now, if I had been in Iraq...I would know where I was in Iraq.

If I had seen US manufactured military armaments, I would know what the hell they were..by type and designation.

Why don't you?

The real question of "who dares" should be directed at you. You've come here with a BS story attempting to suggest the US first armed Saddam and then had to fight against the same weapons we supposedly sold him. Weapons you can't identify by type of designation...or the location inside Iraq where you claim to have been.

I always dare...when someone suggests something that doesn't jive with reality.

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