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Author
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Topic: Loving Your Enemies!!!!!
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 20, 2007 06:24 PM
 
This is where compassion lives!!!!IP: Logged |
Isis
Knowflake Posts: 1922
From: CA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted September 20, 2007 06:53 PM
You make a good point Fayte. We may not consider ourselves to have enemies, but people who want to blow up our buildings and force all women into burquas are by dictionary definition, our enemy. They are antagonistic towards us, hate us, and desire to bring us harm. Therefore, right now, all Americans have enemies.And of course I don't mind if you quote me Solane  IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 20, 2007 06:55 PM
Responding to Solane..  Well some of the good Americans in M. Moore's 911 lightened up too with background music making big ha ha over killing like it was a twisted sick video game. 
One should morally/spiritually not make light of the concept of enemies.
It is no laughing matter. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 20, 2007 07:04 PM
Isis  I was posting to Solane's making light of a discussion about enemy, loving the enemy. Then I saw your post. Indeed we do have enemies and by that token they believe they have enemies. War is revolting enough without intense glee over killing displayed by either side.
I seriously do not buy it that folks love their enemies in war times no matter how good a Christian they profess to be. Nor any religion.
The hate from both sides is quite real.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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miss_muffet
Knowflake Posts: 832
From:
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted September 20, 2007 07:19 PM
I don't think I can do it... Loving your enemy. It's one thing to forgive. I don't think I am capable of forgetting anything drastic done to me. Loving your enemy... such a noble and saintly attitude. I guess I don't have what it takes to be a saint. I can forgive - time allows us to heal... but never forget. As for the previous post... I am glad that the guy is going to be executed. Not that I want to see anyone die for crimes committed (although that would be justice)... but he needed to be stopped. Permanently. So that no other children will be subject to that through him ever again. MM
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 12:02 AM
Quote:I seriously do not buy it that folks love their enemies in war times no matter how good a Christian they profess to be. Nor any religion. I agree, but why this commit: no matter how good a Christian they profess to be. Why was this part added??? Just asking!!! IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 12:07 AM
quote:
Quote:I seriously do not buy it that folks love their enemies in war times no matter how good a Christian they profess to be. Nor any religion. I agree, but why this commit: no matter how good a Christian they profess to be. Why was this part added??? Just asking!!!
Because it was pointed out here and on other threads by folks, that Jesus said to "love your enemies."
That is a Christian saying.
And I also said;
quote:
Nor any religion
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 12:23 AM
Oh, I just thought that, nor any religion, was just added to make the Christian saying O.K.Thanks!!! IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 12:47 AM
quote:
Oh, I just thought that, nor any religion, was just added to make the Christian saying O.K.Thanks!!!
Yeah Solane you love assuming the worst when it comes to me. 
That tells alot about how your mind and motives work.  ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 01:07 AM
Thanks, your right again!!!IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 21, 2007 02:38 AM
I think that loving your enemies means trying as best as you can to be on good terms with everyone. Those that you can't be on good terms with at least don't do them any harm or wish them bad. Love your enemies is only part of what Jesus said. What he actually said is " Love your enemies. Do good to those that curse you." There is a lot more that followed that. Jesus also said, " Render good for evil." So what he was saying is to at least do no harm in return to those who you may have had some falling out with or who have harmed or attempted to harm you. When someone does evil to you don't pay them back in like manner. In that sense you are at least not hating your enemy and attempting to do them harm in return. Those are the guidelines that Jesus gave us along with all other mystics and holy people. Jesus while dying on the cross said, " Forgive them, Father for they know what they do." Forgiveness has to come before we are willing to love those that harm us or our loved ones. It is totally impossible to love those who harm you unless you first forgive them. And if you truly have forgiven them and truly do love your enemies you do not go about attempting to do them harm in any way. That is not forgiveness or love of enemy. It's revenge. It's taking things to the extreme when we include murderers, rapists or pediphiles who harm children. There are laws that disallow those types of people from running loose on the street. It is not revenge to put them away so that they can't go about harming others, and in some states sentence them to death for their crime. Regarding harming children Jesus said, " Anyone who harms one of these least ones or leads them astray, it's better that they have a millstone hung around their necks and be cast into the sea." Pretty harsh words. Either Jesus contradicted himself or Jesus didn't take things to the extreme as many people do. Wars are taking it to the extreme as well. Wars have clearly defined enemies and it is as Isis said ( and I am not quoting her here ) anyone who is trying to kill you is not exactly your buddy. A clearly defined enemy has been the case with wars since the beginning of time. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 09:51 AM
Solane said: quote:
Thanks, your right again!!!
Thank you for seeing that.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 10:04 AM
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OMG Jay
Knowflake Posts: 360
From:
Registered: Sep 2007
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posted September 21, 2007 10:25 AM
quote:
You make a good point Fayte. We may not consider ourselves to have enemies, but people who want to blow up our buildings and force all women into burquas are by dictionary definition, our enemy. They are antagonistic towards us, hate us, and desire to bring us harm. Therefore, right now, all Americans have enemies.
And what enemies would this be? Muslims? What the media told you? I know many Muslims who would not hurt a fly.
News Flash - They did not blow up the buildings. There was dynamite all over the place. the only people who would have been able to get away with something like that would be government officials. Especially in a building where 50,000 people worked. It would have been obvious if middle eastern men where there for a few weeks in every office installing them.
News flash 2 - It's not your building.
News flash 3 - I live here. People talk. People here will always know more since we experienced it. There were devices installed on the walls. They noticed people....not arabs doing it. of course they didn't question it, since they trust the government. Explosions came from the basement and other floors.
Look at amateur videos. The media is controlled. Editing is nothing now a days. I saw an amateur video the other day that I have seen many times over the years on the news. it shows a huge white plane flying into a tower as a man who is on the street looks up at it and runs. The REAL ORIGINAL VIDEO shows no plane at all. Only an explosion.
News flash 4 - Do you know any Latin? It's pretty simple if you consider yourself educated.
STAGED EVENTS
also know as
ORDER OUT OF CHAOS
from the Latin
ORDO AB CHAO
 If this doesn't make sense to you then first find out why our country has these symbols on the bills that you use. I don't know exactly why the government chose these symbols but if you know Latin then it should be no surprise. Have you actually researched what witnesses that were there actually saw? I bet MSNBC and Fox news was telling you everything you wanted to hear and see. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 10:32 AM
OMG Jay...this reply is not to your post...my reply to yours is my next posts.
Just wanted to clarify that! quote:
Forgiveness has to come before we are willing to love those that harm us or our loved ones. It is totally impossible to love those who harm you unless you first forgive them. And if you truly have forgiven them and truly do love your enemies you do not go about attempting to do them harm in any way.
Forgiving those who have unjustly harmed us usually gives them the idea we are doormats and they can continue to look for ways to add further insult to the injury they have inflicted. One way is by pretending it never happened, and slipping in snide remarks or preachings to divert attention away from what they are guilty of; and we should automatically love and trust them, even though no sincere apologies were given. I agree with forgiving and do. But shunning and
denial indicates to me that they really have not forgotten and all my forgiving them will not change things. It amazes me how some folks value friendships so little that a few words taken wrongly, not as intended, or differences of opinions, can cause them to dump what was without even trying to work it out. Working out to them is saying, forget it, or never happened. Well if not worked out, it would indeed happen again if they retained or still have some social contact....but no....it is easier for them to just say it never happened and then accuse me of not being forgiving or understanding. Why is wanting to get to the bottom of a misunderstanding seen as a negative thing? Once the bottom is found the friendship can then grow and become richer than it was before when both finally understand each other better.
It is akin to a marriage where one feels counseling is needed and the other refuses.
So their refusal; ie; denial of any problems, or their part in them, will often lead to the marriage ending. Too bad there is not a mediator/counselor service for friends, especially ones made on the internet. Additionally if one is so willing to let a friendship go without even trying to get to the root of the problem, work it out and come to better understand each other instead of not wanting to deal with it but instead choosing to sweep it under the rug and proclaim they never want to speak to one again...
Well their idea of what true friendship means must be very shallow indeed. Or their ego so big they would rather save face, go into denial convincing themselves the party they wronged is the one who broke up the friendship, rather then sincerely looking at it with the other and BOTH looking at where they rubbed each other the wrong way and growing from that understanding, It is much easier it seems to just throw all the good from before away for some rather than coming to a real understanding and a continuance of a friendship. Why do I keep going on rather than pretending things never happened? Because I do care. And I am trying to understand. But perhaps when others have made up their minds and stated their unwillingness to to work it out...it is too far gone already.
On that note.
I may as well throw in the towel on what appears to be a dance of futility.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 10:48 AM
OMG Jay  I know where you are coming from. quote:
And what enemies would this be? Muslims? What the media told you? I know many Muslims who would not hurt a fly.
Yes indeed! I am friends with a family here who have been abused and held at gunpoint by freedom loving good Christian Americans. I pointed out his being a Christian because after the he terrorized and pistol whipped the family on two separate occasions... because they are Muslims, and he was finally caught and prosecuted, HIS CHURCH DEFENDED HIM!Thats right! They said he was traumatized by 911!
That family came here to escape the terrors going on in their homeland. But some self proclaimed good Christian Americans act as if they deserved pistol whipped. Some? An entire freaking self righteous church!  I agree with the rest of your post too but enough folks already hate me because of my political/religious views and so I will not go into it at this time. I do agree with you OMG Jay. It was brave of you to post that. I hope you do not get jumped for doing so here. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 21, 2007 10:49 AM
I agree, OMG Jay. It's also an erronous notion that the war in Iraq is a religious war. Truth is that the majority of Christian churches and the majoritiy of Muslims are opposed to the war. Governments name the enemy to us. As individuals we need to stop allowing governments to tell us who our friends and enemies are in other nations. IP: Logged |
SattvicMoon
Knowflake Posts: 2282
From:
Registered: May 2007
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posted September 21, 2007 10:58 AM
 White dove
Fly with the wind
Take our hope under your wings
For the world to know
That hope will not die
Where the children cry - Scorpions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXUifcAh83E ------------------
SattvicMoonz Home Page and Blog IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 11:06 AM
OMG Jay
I also should point out that the we meant America and the countries we are at war with, as a country.
Both do politically consider the other an enemy.
As individuals "on both sides" some do not see it that way.
I do not.
Some can see the bigger picture and know it is the governments who are enemies, not all folks as individuals. Like that endearing story of the Iraqi boy and his family on the beach that you posted: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002844.html
If they were still in Iraq, there are folks on both sides American and Iraqi who would not blink at blowing that nice family up.
But here, a big happy show was put on. The media must have loved it!
It was a nice scenario. 
I only wish folks from both sides would hold onto that image and stop murdering each other.
Our religious differences or lack of a religion or what our politicians think should not make any of us on ether side automatically hate each other.
Or certain folks of the American government's greed for control of the world and oil.
Ok..I am rambling.
Rant off for now.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 11:11 AM
quote:
the majoritiy of Muslims are opposed to the war.
That's right. And "they" are also individuals with individual thoughts, feelings, perspectives, etc. So more people must, must MUST stop judging each other and try to begin to see the good that is in ALL!!!!! I think every human being should be educated about each of the wonderful variety of cultures and beliefs in our planet. Because when it comes down to it We are really not so different at all ------------------
It would be nice to evolve some sort of telethapy of the heart; empathy. A feeling, knowing inside how we are all interconnected. Empathy/ love would be a a law unto itself. I have been wondering- perhaps we are only 'Free' or have 'Free Will' in as much as we are spiritually awakened. We are like Gods in amnesia. This amnesia is the source of our soul-sickness. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 11:25 AM
Dervish I re-read this thread and can definitely relate to your long post on page one of this thread! ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
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Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 21, 2007 12:10 PM
quote:
That's right. And "they" are also individuals with individual thoughts, feelings, perspectives, etc. So more people must, must MUST stop judging each other and try to begin to see the good that is in ALL!!!!!I think every human being should be educated about each of the wonderful variety of cultures and beliefs in our planet. Because when it comes down to it We are really not so different at all...LTT
Beautiful words, LTT and I love this thought of yours and soooooo agree with it: "So more people must, must MUST stop judging each other and try to begin to see the good that is in ALL!!!!!" Nice picture and thoughts by the Scorpions, Sattvic This song and video shows the results of seeing others as our enemies. Gives me chills: Extreme Ways - Moby No one could treat another human being this way if they did not first dehumanize them in their minds. It is just not the way we were all created to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkc6PsrSbs0
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Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted September 21, 2007 03:11 PM
Nothing is ever "automatic," Fayte. That is taking things to the extreme. One forgives over time when one has a mindset and genuinely wants to forgive others. It does not happen "automatically." Regarding love. No one loves people they don't actually know. Not on the day to day level of our existance anyway. Not unless they have attained the highest level of spirituality and are saints. It's only through the soul that we can do that knowing and believing that we are all one and that we are all Children of God. Also we can love people on that soul level without having to like everybody on the planet. We are not required to like everyone. There are people who make it very difficult for us to actually like them and their actions. At best all we can do is respect them with tolerance as fellow human beings and attempt to do them no harm. To love others is to respect them and their personal space. It is to respect the personal boundaries of others. When you say something in discussions you say that you are just discussing and giving your opinions and thoughts, Fayte. When others say something in discussions giving their thoughts and opinions why do you see what they are saying as "preaching?" Just curious about that statement. And also you said somewhere on a thread recently that asking questions is the only way we don't misunderstand others. So I am asking the questions. I am also curious why you would say that forgiving others would make them think of you as a doormat? Maybe they would think that. Maybe they wouldn't. At any rate what difference would it matter what they thought? Forgiveness comes from within and in forgiving you have done your part. You can't control what others may think or feel about that. That's their problem. Not yours. Worrying about what others might think about any decision we make or worrying what others do comes from the ego's need to defend and be in control of others and all situations and outcomes. We do what we feel is right for us and for our spiritual growth and it is not for us to worry about what others think about it or what others do or say about it. We can only control ourselves. Not others. Those are my thought and opinions. Should anyone see it as "preaching" that is not my problem. IP: Logged |
Isis
Knowflake Posts: 1922
From: CA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted September 21, 2007 04:41 PM
I don't think I said all Muslims are our enemies.If people want to believe conspiracy theories that's fine, but no matter how you want to look at it, if you went into certain foreign countries as an American, you would be a target for violence. Sounds like Americans have enemies. The government didn't tell us that radical islamists our are enemies, they did when they target Americans and saw off their heads on video. Even if you think it was a conspiracy theory, that still means you have an enemy. And that would be whomever it is that you think perpetrated the conspiracy. IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted September 21, 2007 05:20 PM
The only real evil is ignorance itself.I wonder what person or entity really was behind all these religions in the first place It's a strange world. I can't cure it, but I can build my own sanctuary and focus on those close to me and those I can reach. I'll try and let pieces of the 'giant jigsaw' unravel themselves without having blind faith in anything. Love is all we need really need to learn. Maybe one day we'll find our way out of this labyrinth? Who knows. I often feel as if I'm lost in a strange world. Perhaps people who feel this way can chose to move onto higher plains of existence after. But I suppose while we're here we may as well put ourselves to as much good use as we can!
Whilst trying to understand what causes the 'darkness', it is important to stay focussed on the 'light' simultaneously or it will bring you down.
Perhaps this was the meaning of the three monkeys legend...."Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil"? Just a theory. Just more ramble to add to the mix. ------------------
It would be nice to evolve some sort of telethapy of the heart; empathy. A feeling, knowing inside how we are all interconnected. Empathy/ love would be a a law unto itself. I have been wondering- perhaps we are only 'Free' or have 'Free Will' in as much as we are spiritually awakened. We are like Gods in amnesia. This amnesia is the source of our soul-sickness. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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