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Author Topic:   Loving Your Enemies!!!!!
Solane Star
Knowflake

Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 17, 2007 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
Loving Your Enemies

Love your enemies as yourself is good psychological advice as well as sound spiritual counsel.

You might not want to admit that you have enemies, but we all do. A friend is someone you like, while one who is not a friend is someone you do not like – perhaps because you do not know them.

The word ‘enemy’ comes from the Latin in + amicus (not friend). The root of amicus (friend) is amare, ‘to love.’ So a friend is someone you love, and an enemy is someone you do not love. An enemy is someone who represents something negative within yourself that you do not know or do not accept. An enemy is someone on whom you project some unconscious aspects of yourself.

You cannot like or love someone you do not know. In order to love your enemy you have to know them, and in order to know them you have to know yourself enough so as not to project onto them aspects of your shadow self.

I recently spent several hours in a government office in a developing country trying to get some paperwork done. I was going through an inner struggle about the real situation I was in. I found myself alternating between thoughts of criticism about the inefficiency the clerks were demonstrating, and thoughts of me admitting that I did not understand why they acted the way they did. I wanted things to proceed more quickly and I could see how that could easily be done. I was projecting my mentality, expectations and attitudes onto the situation. On the other hand, these people had been doing this work for years in a culture and in a government department that was unknown to me. There was no way I could understand without learning much more than what I knew. But the situation did not lend itself for teaching me what I did not know.

So often this is the kind of situation we find ourselves experiencing. We do not understand, and the situation does not lend itself to be understood at the time. And whenever we do not understand we always project our own thoughts and feelings about what we want and what we think.

Projection is never about the situation, so it never reveals any further understanding to us. Projection is about ourselves. It comes from an unconscious place within ourselves where we feel unfulfilled or lacking in some way. That is, we want something and therefore impose our feelings and thoughts on a situation through uninformed judgement, criticism or making demands. It is very easy to make enemies in this way.

Whenever we criticise or make demands based on personal desires, we alienate others. They do not feel loved or appreciated by us. And we obviously do not love or appreciate them.

Anyone we meet – even in places like government offices – can be a friend, someone to love. But it takes an effort when they are different from us – when they act or behave differently, when they look different, when they have different beliefs or lifestyles, or when they do not meet our expectations.

We must make an attempt to understand. If we do not succeed in gaining accurate understanding with our minds, we can then approach them in other ways. Understanding is also possible with the heart. The heart accepts; it does not judge. When we know something with our heart what we know is that there is a cause why something is the way it is, and that cause is valid. The heart accepts the limitations of a person or situation and values whatever efforts are being made. The heart is altruistic and therefore accepting and tolerant of others. It is not preoccupied with self-centered interests.

When we open our heart to another we can transcend our emotional reactions and self-centered desires. Often, however, this is not easy because we feel those emotions so strongly. One of the qualities that turns on the heart significantly and strongly is appreciation. Appreciation is not an emotion that arises spontaneously, but a soul quality that we can choose. The more often we choose to be appreciative the easier this choice becomes and the more frequently is our heart open to give and receive love.

Heart is a word that refers to many different levels of our being. Essentially, it is the love aspect of soul, capable of making direct, intuitive contact. Soul love is not emotional; it is highly impersonal and intelligent, capable of grasping the essence without any projection on our part. When we activate this centre through choosing to appreciate we simultaneously activate the physical heart’s intelligence which then resonates the brain’s intelligence, bringing our whole being into alignment with soul, with appreciation, with love. In this state of love we accept ourselves. In this state we then love our enemies because we have made a connection with their soul. The enemies are now friends because of our heart-centred choices.

Exercises:

1. What situations or people do you find difficult to appreciate?

2. What expectations or projections on your part get in the way of appreciating them?

3. With eyes closed, and in a relaxed meditative state, focus on your heart and the quality of appreciation. When you have it, then visualize someone whom you have difficulty seeing as a friend, and direct this appreciation toward them.


The Soul Journey

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OMG Jay
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posted September 17, 2007 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OMG Jay     Edit/Delete Message
I don't love my enemies.

I don't hate them either.

I just don't care about them.

No need to.

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Solane Star
Knowflake

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From: Ontario, Canada
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posted September 17, 2007 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
OMG Jay!!!!

Welcome!!!!

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Isis
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From: CA
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posted September 17, 2007 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message
en·e·my /ˈɛnəmi/ [en-uh-mee], plural -mies,
–noun
1. a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.


I don't have any enemies that I know of. Even if I did, I don't think I'd really care about them. I'd just go out of my way to make sure they're not in any way a part of my life.

Love them? No. Hate em? Meh, too much effort. Pity them? Perhaps.

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Dervish
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Posts: 328
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted September 18, 2007 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting definition of love.

But I feel that I should point out that it can be dangerous to try to turn your enemies into friends. It's also not always the smartest move even when it's not dangerous. Some people genuinely hold ill will toward others, and it's foolish to love them, or at least to trust them. And a few will kill you if you try. I went to try to open communications with one man back in 2004 and the guy threatened to murder me and my love both, and made sure to get the license plate number of our jeep.

So be advised that you follow advice like this at your own risk. Advice like this has it's place, and there are times to open your mind and your heart, but there are times that it's downright dangerous, as I learned when I tried following this advice above about 3 years ago.

Some people are strongly wired to share in happiness and sadness, but some are strongly wired to find happiness in the misery of others and misery in the happiness of others.

Plus, some criminals see people who love or trust easily as victims waiting to happen. They'll even test the charity of people and attack those who show any sense of compassion.

Anyway...


Exercises:

1. What situations or people do you find difficult to appreciate?

People who are very aggressive. Eg, I avoid going out on Fridays and Saturdays because I got harassed too much. Wearing a ring didn't help.

Some of the worst cases that I recall easily are like one guy that I'd only known for 3 minutes who got insulting, and then outright threatening, when I refused to give him my phone number (though I offered him my email), as my phone number can also get some people my address. A guy who grabbed my breasts and then apologized while still holding on. A really big guy who was scary; he showed so much interest that I hid in the restroom, only to have to peel a woman off of me.

I also dislike men who say that a woman who gets drunk with a guy or otherwise trusts him deserves whatever happens to her. Only a moron doesn't know that men only want one thing. And then, to really annoy me, they go on to say that feminists who make that same statement are hateful in their appraisal of men.

In addition are those who do something nice for me so they think that I "owe" them sexual gratification. Did they buy me a pepsi? Well then, I should let go of my selfish desires and turn into their pro bono prostitute.

A pet peeve that often exacerbates the above is when they assume that I am omniscient and omnipotent. So if they feel extreme lust toward me (even when I'm dressed very casually), then I intentionally made them feel that lust. And because it's my fault that they feel lust, they believe either that I am lusting after them, or that I am an evil, cruel tease (and probably should be punished). I also dislike those who think that just because they're turned on, that therefore I'M turned on, too, QED.

When I'm dressed to attract, then some attention is ok, even desired, but even then I expect not to be manhandled or threatened. Such dress is also NOT carte blanche that they can do with me whatever they want.

These are examples of the sitch/people I find hard to appreciate.


2. What expectations or projections on your part get in the way of appreciating them?

I expect them to show some consideration, courtesy, and the like. I expect them to not be scary and to definitely not make threats. While I can tolerate a "quick touch" disguised as accidental in some situations without complaint, prolonged and aggressive contact is scary. Harmless flirting is fun, but a few get really obsessive, even creepy, about it. This leads to fears and expectations in me of possible violence, even to the point of rape and/or death, being attempted against me.

I think my expectation is reasonable because plenty of guys get upset when gay or bi men come onto THEM the same way. They figure that men who are insistent, harassing, even grabby, are sick and pervy. Therefore, they should understand how WE feel about men doing the same thing to us. Plus, they should consider that in most cases, men are significantly bigger and stronger than we are--and how often does a 250-pound gay bodybuilder come onto them? I bet they'd freak more by that than I do when your average guy that I barely know gets all gropey and aggressive with me.

I also sometimes feel that I am appreciated more for my meat than for who I am. Now I enjoy feeling appreciated, even from a strictly visual perspective (though this includes clothing & style as much as anything else), but sometimes I get the feeling that who I am beyond my femininity and ability to look good isn't valued by others, and that's a lack of appreciation that I can find distressing

3. With eyes closed, and in a relaxed meditative state, focus on your heart and the quality of appreciation. When you have it, then visualize someone whom you have difficulty seeing as a friend, and direct this appreciation toward them.

Are you serious?

Ok. But if it works, I may need a new exercise to restore my self-esteem.

Minutes later: I wonder if such guys were left to cry as infants when they wanted mommy's breast and that's why they're compelled to grab mine now. They must be insecure to need to have their manliness and desirability continually validated, too, or they wouldn't take rejection so personally. They never learned how to relate to women.

But wait, maybe they know, but they act the way they do because they're masochists and they so desperately want to be put in their place by someone angry who won't take their crap. The entire point isn't to "score" or to even hook up but to get their butt (or other parts) kicked.

Hmmm. There are women who make a lot of money by abusing men, and there are plenty of 900 lines that cater to men who want to be beaten and taken out like the trash. Maybe that's what such men with despicable manners want. I should love them enough to give it to them, too. But I should make sure I meditate some more so that I have the love necessary in order to kick in the balls the next guy who grabs me, drag him by his hair to the nearest dumpster, and then pick him up by his ankles and toss him in.

And just to show I love them, which is why I hurt them (don't we all hurt the ones we love?), I'll carry around note cards with this exercise on them, give them to those I leave in the trash, and they can then do this meditation, too.

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Mirandee
Knowflake

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From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004

posted September 18, 2007 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirandee     Edit/Delete Message
I don't feel that I have any enemies. In other words, there is no one that I think of as an enemy.

For those that think of me as an enemy I have no control over that.

Since I don't think of anyone as my enemy I try the best I can to be on good terms with everyone. But those that for one reason or another I find I can't be on good terms with I at least don't hate them or hold a grudge for any difficulties I may have had with them.

There are people that I love, people that I like but no one that I hate. Not being a perfect human being I cannot say with honesty that I love everyone on the planet. At best I wish no one harm and I don't hate anyone. I may hate the actions of some people but never the person. I can honestly say that much.

I think that when Jesus said, " Love your enemies" he pretty much knew that would be the most difficult thing to actually do for 99% of the world population.

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fayte.m
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Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 18, 2007 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
A question.
Not trying to be funny but simply trying to ascertain your thinking. You confuse me at times.
So once folks who are rapists, murderers and or pedophiles are executed as you have stated you desire that is how it should be.....You said they cannot change or be cured and are evil.
Once executed should they be granted heaven or eternal damnation? If heaven, then how would you feel having to hang out with them for eternity?

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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Mirandee
Knowflake

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From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004

posted September 19, 2007 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirandee     Edit/Delete Message
Here is the link to the thread in question just so others can see what I actually said.


http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/008660.html

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 19, 2007 09:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
You did not answer the question.
As for the link...
I hope folks read all 5 pages not just the one. Some posts also may have been changed on that thread and were deleted on others.

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 19, 2007 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
You talk very well of forgiveness. Perhaps you have changed of late. But the contradictions on that thread still baffle me.

Mirandee said:

quote:
I was always against the death penalty too but when it comes to harming children in any way no matter if it is a relative or parent or anyone else, the death sentence is the only thing that can be considered justice. Pediphiles cannot be cured.

Forgiveness comes in time. It is not an immediate thing unless you are God. Many people say they forgive but hold grudges forever. The reason they hold grudges is that they only feigned forgiveness, just said the words, and did not allow the time to go through the whole process.

Right now I am just not ready to forgive this man. That will come in time. After all, in time I forgave the man who sexually abused me. And my experience did not make me grow up to be a monster who sexually abused and murdered children.
Any judgment that I make of the character of another person is always going to based strictly on my own perceptions and biases without knowledge of the state of a person's soul.


Mirandee.... : ( ..bheart.. I am not trying to start an argument here, but this contradiction confuses me:

quote:
Right now I am just not ready to forgive this man.
It is not your place to do so.
quote:
That will come in time. After all, in time I forgave the man who sexually abused me.

That man abused you, yet you say you forgave him? Are you absolutely sure of that?
quote:
There are some crimes such as preying on the innocent that should be mandatory death. I feel that way even if it's the parents who harm the child with physical and sexual abuse. We have to rid society of these people. It is, as you said, the only way we can protect our children.
By that remark, the man who sexually abused you, is not truly forgiven, and should be put to death, or should have been.
Is the standard now different for him because you forgave him?


You said:

quote:
I do understand what others are saying when they suggest that it is in some way contributing to the cycle of vengeance to put the man to death and our being happy about that. I see the point. I admit that I was perhaps over emotional in the way I presented this post... I am not justifying my emotional response... he is a human being and I agree, in spite of his heinous crime, he does also deserve our compassion, our pity and our forgiveness. May God have mercy on his soul.

HSC replied:

quote:
Now she says he deserves our compassion, our pity, and our forgiveness.
A far cry from what she said before, and what I objected to:


because you had said:

quote:
I'm very happy to see this man die... it's something he deserves.
I think he is getting off easy. They should bury his sorry a$$ alive.


------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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lotusheartone
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Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
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posted September 19, 2007 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Jesus Christ,
I LOve you ALL, hehe

no matter what?

when does all this BS end?


LOve and Reverence to ALL. ...

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Dervish
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Posts: 328
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted September 19, 2007 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Mirandee, I think the kind of answer looked for is something along these lines:

"I said there was no cure, but I believe that death is a cure as it dissolves the ego, the ultimate Reset button. Thus the pedophile in them is destroyed, and the pure energy of God's love is all that's left."

Or

"They go to Hell forever and forever and we don't remember them."

Even expand on that:

"Those who do the vilest of acts are of a spiritual frequency too low to associate with most of us. Just as there are a very few who are attuned to much higher than the rest of us, there are those attuned to much lower. When and if they evolve, then their presence will be noted [in Heaven or whatever] and accepted."

Another possibility:

"I believe that the pedo will wind up reincarnated over and over and until s/he evolves into a person/soul worth knowing, without that taint to them any longer."


As for the other stuff brought up, it might help to point out the difference between forgiveness and protecting children. For example, a rabid dog may be seen loose where there are children, and the dog is shot, but the dog isn't shot because people hate the dog and it's justice, but because the children have to be protected.

Btw, for the record, I'm staying neutral on this, I'm just trying to facilitate communication.

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Isis
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From: CA
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posted September 19, 2007 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message
Wait a sec...isn't this thread titled: "Loving Your Enemies"...

Or is this just irony at it's best..or worse actually as the case may be...

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fayte.m
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 19, 2007 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Saw contradictions was all.
Sorry for the segue.
Knew no answer was forthcoming.
Should have let it be.

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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Khaine
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From: the skies
Registered: Sep 2007

posted September 20, 2007 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Khaine     Edit/Delete Message
i dont hawe any enemies. i hawe pieces of of **** not worthy my attention. but they regard me as an enemy =P

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maklhouf
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posted September 20, 2007 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maklhouf     Edit/Delete Message
My problem is that so many religious people seem to be better at loving their enemies, than their friends. IMO love is usually not necessary. I'll settle for simple good manners

------------------

The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner;
Matthew 21:42

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Nephthys
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posted September 20, 2007 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nephthys     Edit/Delete Message
The idea of even using the word "enemy" is not very spiritual. We are all brothers and sisters on earth.

Anyone who even conceives of the word/idea enemy is pretty negative.

It's your opinion that "everyone has an enemy" and that is just a perspective.

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
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posted September 20, 2007 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Nephthys Yeah I do not feel comfortable with that word either. When we love or have compassion, it does seems weird to call anyone an enemy.
"Love your enemies" to me implies one believes they have enemies whether they know for sure or not that is what the other thinks. They imagine folks to be their enemy even as they utter that phrase and claim to not have enemies. We need a different word. Any ideas?

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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SattvicMoon
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Posts: 2282
From:
Registered: May 2007

posted September 20, 2007 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SattvicMoon     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
We need a different word. Any ideas?

Foe

------------------
SattvicMoonz Home Page and Blog

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fayte.m
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 20, 2007 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
SattvicMoon
So many variations on what could be deemed an enemy.
By the dictionary definitions in essence anyone
with whom we do not agree with is an enemy.
By the dictionary definitions anyone whose country is at war with another has enemies.
The definition are too broad.
Especially in war situations, bullfinch both sides love the "enemy".
Anyone who condones wars hates and has enemies.
If they all loved there would be no wars.
People who rape and murder are society's enemies.
It gets very complicated and convoluted indeed.

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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Solane Star
Knowflake

Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 20, 2007 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
AnyWho Back To Loving Your Enemies!!!LOL!!!

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Solane Star
Knowflake

Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 20, 2007 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
ISIS Quote:

Wait a sec...isn't this thread titled: "Loving Your Enemies"...

Or is this just irony at it's best..or worse actually as the case may be...


Looks like alot of nit-picking and always looking for the UGLY in everything and I mean everything, everyone, every word, everything. PICK, PICK,PICK!!!

This is not promoting, producing any signs or feelings of compassion or love????

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted September 20, 2007 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
I fail to find humour in or reasons to joke about such a thing.

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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Solane Star
Knowflake

Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 20, 2007 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
ISIS, I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

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Solane Star
Knowflake

Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted September 20, 2007 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solane Star     Edit/Delete Message
Thats fine, but I've been adviced to lighten -up Mys-ELF!!!

Hope you don't have problem with that!!!

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