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Author Topic:   Charisma
BlueRoamer
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Posts: 4744
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 18, 2009 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
Do you have charisma or do you know someone who does?

Astrologers say that Leo influences yield a natural magnetism/charisma, the kind that people are drawn to. Bill Clinton has it, Hitler supposedly had it.

What is the deal with this strange quality that causes someone to light up a room, everyone to notice and stare at them, and gives them the ability to influence others?

How rare is it? Is it posture, looks, dress, mannerisms, speech, ability to emote and make others feel?


Please share your opinions on this strange quality that fascinates me.


The word charisma (origin from the Greek word χάρισμα (kharisma), "gift" or "divine favor," from kharizesthai, "to favor," from kharis, "favor") refers to a rare trait found in certain human personalities usually including extreme charm and a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance along with innate and powerfully sophisticated personal communicability and persuasiveness.

Charismatic traits

Although difficult or even impossible to define accurately (due to an abundance of wildly diverse criteria in regard to the trait), charisma is often used to describe an elusive, even undefinable personality trait that often includes the seemingly 'supernatural' or uncanny ability to lead, charm, persuade, inspire, and/or influence people. It refers especially to a quality in certain people who easily draw the attention and admiration (or even hatred if the application of such charisma is perceived to be negative) of others due to a 'magnetic' quality of personality and/or appearance. Related terms and phrases include: grace, exuberance, equanimity, mystique, positive energy, joie de vivre, extreme charm, personal magnetism, personal appeal, "electricity," and allure, among many others[1]. Usually many of these specific qualities must be present within a single individual for the person to be considered highly charismatic by the public and their peers.

Despite the strong emotions they so often induce in others, charismatic individuals generally project unusual calmness, confidence, assertiveness, dominance, authenticity, and focus, and almost always possess superb communication and/or oratorical skills. Although the etymology of the word ("divine gift") might suggest that charisma can't be acquired, and despite the persistent inability to accurately define or even fully understand the concept, it is believed[who?] that charisma can be taught and/or learned. Others[who?] disagree with this assertion and maintain that it is an inborn trait, or acquired through growing up, and that it cannot be learned, taught, or 'gained' at will. Charisma can also be used in a negative way.
[edit]The psychology of charisma

The term charisma, derived from Ancient Greek was introduced in scholarly usage by German sociologist Max Weber. [1] He defined charismatic authority to be one of three forms of authority, the other two being traditional (feudal) authority and legal or rational authority. According to Weber, charisma is defined thus:
...a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which s/he is "set apart" from ordinary people and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These as such are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as divine in origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader.[2]
The study, recognition, and development of charisma in individuals is of particular interest to sociologists/psychologists, popular (usually national) politicians, public speakers, actors, movie-stars/movie-producers, casting directors, pop-music stars, trainers/coaches targeting the upper-echelons of the business community (CEOs), and academics or others involved in leadership studies or leadership development, among others. [3]
In some cases highly-extroverted and brutally controlling charismatic leaders have used their personal charisma in extremely destructive and damaging ways throughout human history, for example, Adolf Hitler and Jim Jones. Yugoslav communist leader Josip Broz Tito was said to be a "Charismarch" - "ruler staying in power by charisma".
Pierre Bourdieu did not have a very different position from that of Weber's, but he stressed that a leader has charisma only if other people accept that s/he has it. Bourdieu argued that charisma usually depends on an "inaugural act" such as a decisive battle or moving speech after which the charismatic person will be regarded as such[citation needed].
[edit]Theories of charisma

Charisma has also been studied as a set of behaviors/traits; for example, a modern psychological approach posits that charisma is basically aggregative[citation needed], a conglomeration of distinct personality traits that meld well in certain individuals to form the broad quality known as charisma or "personal"
Theatrically, charisma can sometimes be "performed" on-stage and in films, and is encapsulated in both verbal and non-verbal communication.

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blue moon
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From: U.K
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posted February 18, 2009 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
Eyes that bore into you like road drills, everyone notices when he walks into the room, women fall all over him although he is an ugly f***er old enough to be their granddad. No, I don't think he's rich. He might know all about Greek verbs though, it goes hand in hand with vibrant charisma.

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Dervish
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From: California
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posted February 18, 2009 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
I think I have an above average charisma, but I'm a bit too blunt to have a truly superior one.

Short n sweet, I see charisma as just being "people smart," comfortable around people, and believing in yourself sincerely (as opposed to those who need to bluster or tear others down to feel better about themselves). Essentially, one picks up on the cues others use and learns to use them in ways that influence others the way the charismatic one wants to influence them.

It's important to note that it's NOT physical beauty (however you define it), fashion sense, or things like that. These can affect charisma by affecting how you believe in yourself and/or how comfortable you feel around others, but isn't directly the cause for charisma (or why you don't have it). There are too many who are fashionable AND beautiful who are spineless followers whereas many homely folk who eschew fashion styles can attract, fascinate, lead, and manipulate people easily. IOW, things like beauty & fashion generally only matter if you LET it matter. (I say generally, because there are times you have to dress for the role if you intend to appeal to certain people...but those exuding a powerful charisma can probably break even these rules.)

And I'd say charisma is the ability to form a bond with other people. This is not a function of intelligence (say using psychological means), but of charisma, something that's very hard to learn (and perhaps impossible to teach directly).

Overall, I think charisma is perhaps the best asset one can have. Look at real life, who is typically the happiest and most well off? The intelligent? Wise? I'd say no, it's those with the high charisma. Like look at most celebrities, no matter how bad they screw up, almost everyone gives them a free pass in any way that matters, including the police and judges. And those who are far smarter & wiser will go out of their way to offer up their own talents to such high charisma people, and forgive them when the charismatic just brushes them off, and will try to bail them out of the next mess the charismatic person gets into for ignoring the intelligent & wise. And the smart & wise will almost always be laid off before the charismatic. And should someone a lot smarter come off with a witty insult, it will just bounce off the one with high charisma who will just come back with a lame insult in turn but get a bigger laugh.

Finally, I have to add this song....about the importance of being popular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY0RejvuoQ

Excerpt of the song here:

When i see depressing creatures,
With unprepossessing features,
I remind them on their own behalf
To - think - of
Celebrated heads of state,
Or specially great communicators!
Did they have brains or knowledge?
Don't make me laugh!

They were POPULAR!
Please!
It's all about popular.
It's not about aptitude,
It's the way you're viewed,
So it's very shrewd to be,
Very very popular
like ME!

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koiflower
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From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2008

posted February 19, 2009 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
A certain amount of charisma can be taught - posture, confidence, a warmth plus more - all these things can be a matter of choice.

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Dervish
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Posts: 580
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 26, 2009 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Oh yeah, you'd probably enjoy this article:
http://www.careerbuilder.com/Article/CB-1048-The-Workplace-What-a-4-Year-Old-Can-Teach-You-About-Managing-Your-Boss/?ArticleID=1048&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=d26472d86b874a1ea47bd4efa 6266180-288929072-JO-5&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_boss_4-year-old

quote:
I had a revelation last week: My 4-year-old daughter is gifted at managing up.

Does she work? No -- but as I see it, right now, I'm the boss and she's an employee in our family firm. And I've noticed that she's become quite adept at getting what she wants from upper management.

Please know, I'm no pushover. I stand my ground on the important issues like "No popsicles for breakfast" and "Socks are not optional when it's 2 degrees outside." But on the fuzzier stuff, I must concede that she's mastered the art of persuasion.

So, it occurred to me that we could all learn from her expertise. Consider these three techniques as performed by my pint-sized employee:


(Obviously, there's more)

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Dervish
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Posts: 580
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 04, 2009 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
These might be of interest, too:
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Popular
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Charming

Unfortunately, these are a bit problematic. For example, should you start to become more popular by using these methods, then it's entirely possible--likely to certain in some areas (such as schools or political groups)--that those who feel threatened and already have social clout will begin to spread rumors about you or otherwise mess you up; others, eager to believe the worst for various reasons (or just wishing to be in the good graces of the one with social clout), will happily go along with it. Of course, you can kiss up to the said popular crowd (and possibly even become the queen bee or alpha, eventually), but that means taking part in destroying the reputations (or other attacks) of others (such as those becoming more popular without the queen bee's or alpha's blessing).

Also, sometimes you're expected to take part in an unpopular activity because it can establish trust (a reason why many secretive groups have hazing rituals that can be downright humiliating, even perverse, as it creates a bond of secrecy as well as fear of betraying the group), but you can't get caught at it by others. This can lead to weird sitches where some are popular while others are slutty for doing the very same thing as the other. 'Course, the **** label is typically used more as a label of dislike rather than behavior (interesting enough, it's like "gays" for guys, so male or female, you're dirty if you let guys touch you sexually, which I find intriguing).

As a character said in the movie Mean Girls (taken from my memory of it), "It's not that I don't like you because you're fat, it's you're fat because I don't like you." That is, it's not just that you can engage in scandalous behavior that can ruin your rep, but if one or more don't like you, they can simply sling rumors and labels at you until it sticks & does its damage. This can lead to weird sitches like someone being called fat when she's skinnier than the ones tormenting her with this label, along with everyone else.

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PeaceAngel
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From: Australia
Registered: May 2008

posted March 04, 2009 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
koi

I disagree. A certain amount of demeanour can be taught. But I think charisma is something inherent within someone. You either have it or you don't. I believe very very few people are charismatic.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted March 04, 2009 03:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
My Dale Carnegie instructor said I have a mesmerizing "presence" because when I gave a speech or lecture I moved the class (some 50 people) to tears or laughter. I was later asked to teach another class for 4 months because of that. What I do not have unfortunately is a college degree, and the courses now require teachers/instructors to have one. Upper management from where I worked, got the company to pay my over $700.00 fee to take the course.
I was not popular in school with the "in" crowd, but had a following of what others saw as misfit kids I "protected". Popular kids then soon began coming to me for advice,
as did oddly a few teachers. One of my nicknames was Dr.Prof...short for professor.
When I am out and about, perfect strangers from children to adults come up and engage me in conversation. I have been told by many,
both strangers of any age and friends, that they feel calm and safe and strangely peaceful around me. I get hugs alot for no reason. Though some have said they feel they will have good luck or be blessed when they hug me. The oddest though has been when strangers come up in restaurants and ask me to bless them and then ask to sit with me, and then they pour out their hearts and souls to me, in a way that often sounds like a confession, and they sometimes also ask if they can be forgiven. (I have had many children and adults say "You feel like, (or are) an angel" (in disguise) which kind of creeps me out as I have a negative view of such beings)
I am not doing anything at such times, but simply just being myself.
So do I have Charisma?
Perhaps it could be called that.
However it is unnerving to me in some ways.
I have become rather reclusive partially because of such unasked for, spontaneous, and often quite intense, rather public attention.
The worse was a rumour awhile back, that I had started a cult and was hypnotizing and spelling people to join me.
Join me in what?
Seems a few Spiritualist ministers felt I was competition, and gossiped about me to their flock.
Well I later discovered because of my words, a few left the church, because they did not believe as they had before listening to my words.
I have no desire to start a cult.
And the attention still feels strange to me and unasked for.
However I turn no one away.
Is approachability a form of charisma?
Maybe those who have it do not realize it or do not understand and ask themselves..."but why me?", I was just being myself.
My longest time friend, nigh onto 40 years to date, told me long ago..."you have a presence and a power, you can become like a Mother Theresa or like a Hitler, an angel or the devil incarnate....or become a recluse."
Well, except for online, I have become quite reclusive. I have had personally no visitors in my home for over 2 decades. My husband has had only a few, perhaps a half dozen times in the past 11 years.
He also gets the same kind of reactions from people as I have/and do.
We are both rather reclusive.
------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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PeaceAngel
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From: Australia
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posted March 04, 2009 04:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think approachability has anything to do with charisma. Personally, I find Bill Clinton extraordinarily charismatic. Is he approachable? Perhaps......... if you're a long-legged beauty who is willing to put out. Would he give me the time of day? No way. Approachable? No. Charismatic? Certainly.

Lots of people have "presence", but I don't believe many people have charisma. Presence entails many things - positive and negative. Charisma is a distinct energy. That said, it's a matter of perception, but I really think charisma is very rare.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
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posted March 04, 2009 04:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
So how do you feel folks react towards those with charisma?

BTW...I too find Bill Clinton very charismatic.

------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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PeaceAngel
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From: Australia
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posted March 04, 2009 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Good question.

I think those who are very impressionable fall under their spell. I think they see something that they want to be a part of. It's like advertising - people see things advertised on TV or wherever and feel this need to have it, that somehow, if they don't buy or own this product, that they'll be somehow less without it or that they're missing something. I think people want to be liked by the charismatic one and will bend themselves to be liked by them.

And then there are those who resent them because in themselves they feel inferior. But that has nothing to do with anyone else being charismatic, that's just how they feel about themselves.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
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posted March 04, 2009 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
Charisma
1.
a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders
who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.
b. Personal magnetism or charm: a television news program
famed for the charisma of its anchors.
2. Christianity An extraordinary power,
such as the ability to perform miracles, granted by the Holy Spirit.


Noun
the quality or power of an individual to attract,
influence, or inspire people [Greek kharis grace, favour]

Noun 1.
charisma - a personal attractiveness
or interestingness that enables you to influence others
personal appeal, personal magnetism
attractiveness - sexual allure
interestingness, interest - the power of attracting or
holding one's attention

Pres·ence
n.
1. The state or fact of being present; current existence or occurrence.
2. Immediate proximity in time or space.
3. The area immediately surrounding a great personage, especially a sovereign.
4. A person who is present.
5.
a. A person's bearing, especially when it commands respectful attention:
b. The quality of self-assurance and effectiveness that permits a performer
to achieve a rapport with the audience: stage presence.
6. A supernatural influence felt to be nearby.

presence
Noun
1. the fact of being in a specified place: the test detects the presence of sugar in the urine
2. impressive personal appearance or bearing: a person of dignified and commanding presence
3. the company or nearness of a person: she seemed completely unaware of my presence
4. Mil a force stationed in another country: the American-led military presence in the Gulf
5. an invisible spirit felt to be nearby: I felt a presence in the room
[Latin praesentia a being before]

Approachabile
1. Possible to approach; accessible: a retreat in the mountains approachable in winter only by helicopter.
2. Easy to talk to or deal with; friendly.
ap·proacha·bili·ty n.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
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posted March 04, 2009 04:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
PA
Thanks for the reply.
Must be off to bed again, as it is only 4:31AM here.
Not sure why I popped in here in the middle of the night.early morning.

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PeaceAngel
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From: Australia
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posted March 04, 2009 04:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Only 4.31am, huh? See, that's how addictive this place is. Open 24/7.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted March 04, 2009 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message


------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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23
Knowflake

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted March 04, 2009 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message
Dervish - thanks for the links. I agree with most of what was written there. Librans and Aquarians are known to be charming. Note how charm requires a focus on others, as written in the article.

Charm and Charisma can still seem somewhat nebulous. Maybe charisma is a much more potent and all-encompassing version of charm. Anyway, isn't charm the ability to make others follow you and mesmerise them? Often charisma is listed as a Leo trait, the regal Leo.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
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posted March 04, 2009 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
The outer planets are all oozing charisma,
esepcially when aspecting Mars or the Sun.

The Moon, too, reflects and appeals to the public,
and multiple aspects to it are common among celebs.

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LEXX
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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted March 04, 2009 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
Charm
v. charmed, charm·ing, charms
v.tr.
1. To attract or delight greatly: the simple elegance of the meal charmed the guests.
2. To induce by using strong personal attractiveness: charmed the guard into admitting them without invitations.
3. To cast or seem to cast a spell on; bewitch.
v.intr.
1. To be alluring or pleasing.
2. To function as an amulet or charm.
3. To use magic spells.
[Middle English charme, magic spell, from Old French, from Latin carmen, incantation; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
charming·ly adv.
charmless adj.
Synonyms: charm, beguile, bewitch, captivate, enchant, entrance2, fascinate
These verbs mean to attract strongly or irresistibly:
Charm
Verb 1. charmcharm - attract; cause to be enamored; "She captured all the men's hearts"
bewitch, captivate, enamor, enamour, entrance, trance, enchant, becharm, beguile, capture, fascinate, catch
hold - hold the attention of; "The soprano held the audience"; "This story held our interest"; "She can hold an audience spellbound"
attract, appeal - be attractive to; "The idea of a vacation appeals to me"; "The beautiful garden attracted many people"
work - gratify and charm, usually in order to influence; "the political candidate worked the crowds"
2. charm - control by magic spells, as by practicing witchcraft
becharm
glamour, hex, jinx, witch, bewitch, enchant - cast a spell over someone or something; put a hex on someone or something
control, command - exercise authoritative control or power over; "control the budget"; "Command the military forces"
3. charm - protect through supernatural powers or charms
protect - shield from danger, injury, destruction, or damage; "Weatherbeater protects your roof from the rain"
4. charm - induce into action by using one's charm; "She charmed him into giving her all his money"
influence, tempt
persuade - cause somebody to adopt a certain position, belief, or course of action; twist somebody's arm; "You can't persuade me to buy this ugly vase!"
magnetise, mesmerise, mesmerize, spellbind, magnetize, bewitch - attract strongly, as if with a magnet; "She magnetized the audience with her tricks"

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sunshine_lion
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From: ann arbor mi
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posted March 04, 2009 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
my daughter danielle has it by the truckload. she is a leo, just something about her that people are drawn to like moths and notice her whereever she goes. she is too lazy to match her socks, so a year later, i see a bunch of tweens running around with unmatched socks, if danielle did it, it must be cool.

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katatonic
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From: ca, usa
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posted March 04, 2009 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
well i don't know about the outer planet thing. i guess some people consider me charismatic but i never have!! quite the opposite. but i have sun conj pluto (and merlin),sextile neptune and semisq uranus...

liz greene did a detailed rundown of hitler's chart (he was no leo, by the way, but a taurus ox, not a creature one associates with charisma!!)in her OUTER PLANETS book - and attributes his CHANNELLING of power to an unaspected uranus...if i'm remembering right; in any case it was an unaspected outer planet and she gave this lecture to illustrate that phenomenon, and how it can take a person over when certain transits trigger it...and she also made the point that he was ANYTHING BUT charismatic in daily life, it was when he SPOKE in public that the gods seemed to infuse him with something larger than life.

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23
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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted March 04, 2009 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message
Trend-setting is very much and Aqu thing. I've been copied a few times and I'm Aqu Sun. Is there any Aqu in your daughter's chart, SL?

Outer planets make sense as it is generational, so any personal planets that have aspects to outer planets might make the person look worldly.

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taurus/gemini cusp
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From: London, England
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posted March 04, 2009 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for taurus/gemini cusp     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
liz greene did a detailed rundown of hitler's chart (he was no leo, by the way, but a taurus ox, not a creature one associates with charisma!!) and attributes his CHANNELLING of power to an unaspected uranus...if i'm remembering right; in any case it was an unaspected outer planet and she gave this lecture to illustrate that phenomenon, and how it can take a person over when certain transits trigger it...and she also made the point that he was ANYTHING BUT charismatic in daily life, it was when he SPOKE in public that the gods seemed to infuse him with something larger than life.

WOW dude!!! I have an unaspected, singleton Uranus over here and by jove when I talk, people listen!!! (God only knows why, lol)!!!!! I am also a Taurus sun!!!!!!! Quite scary that I have so much in common with Hitler though.....

I have Leo rising and I hope I don't come across as too arrogant here (and I will, because I'm Leo rising ), but I do have a healthy amount of charisma. It's something I've been aware of ever since I was small - I have no idea why, but if I were to guess, I'd put the blame on my Leo ascendant as well as my Aquarius moon and obviously that troublesome Uranus of mine!

When I was an adolescent, I went through about a billion Uranus transits and so I was (obviously) rebellious but also strange and unique. This gave me some social standing, but also some grief with it. I do remember walking around with a bit of an electric buzz around me - I mean I would literally buzz!!! Now I'm not the most attractive person in the world - I'm chubby (although I was tiny back then) and reasonably unremarkable looking but people just used to stare at me! And they would also talk - I was forever involved in some sort of very odd scandal (usually made up). I can honestly say I think I know what it feels like to be a celebrity (albeit, very local)!!!

I realize that this sounds incredibly conceited and I probably sound like I'm talking sh!t, (people don't care about you that much @rseh0le, lol!) but I kid you not!!! It's weird.....

I still have it, although now that I'm older I have a more cheerful, contented, relaxed kind of vibe going on. Back when I was a youngster, I was definitely more Uranian and it could be uncomfortable at times. I'm more charming these days and can put people greatly at ease, which they seem to like! I've had the charisma word thrown at me a lot, so I figure other people must be saying what they see.

Just to add, I have also several times (five, to be exact) been told that I have a "glow" when I walk in room or a sort of aura. Twice it's been described as gold, twice green and once silvery blue. (?) If anyone could shed some light on what that might mean, I'd be really grateful!!!

Right - that's enough kissing my own charismatic booty - ciao bella's!!!!!

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Lara
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posted March 04, 2009 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
I have some charisma unless the person ****** me off and then l usually just bite their head off lol

I need to learn diplomacy

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taurus/gemini cusp
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From: London, England
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posted March 04, 2009 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for taurus/gemini cusp     Edit/Delete Message
I'd just like to add that my charisma is not in the slightest bit "sexy"!!! It's more playful or startling.....

Dammit!!!!!

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23
Knowflake

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted March 04, 2009 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 23     Edit/Delete Message
My mum has an aspected Uranus. She's definitely not charismatic. She's Leo Moon, Aries Rising, Sco Sun.

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