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Author Topic:   Nessus
Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 06, 2015 07:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have struggled with understanding Nessus.

I have it conjunct the North Node in Cancer, opposite Venus, so it is prominent.

The interpretations I have found on LL, are too black and white.
I do not believe this is where I give or receive abuse.
That is too simplistic, and does not fit my life experience.

So, on searching the web, I finally found an interpretation that fits much better, and is completely in-line with the path along which I have grown.

From: http://planetwaves.net/smallworlds/contents/planets/nessus.html

"Though it comes with a particularly nasty myth, its effect is not necessarily malefic; it can just as easily help with resolving difficult situations as it can be involved with their creation. Someone with a strong or well-aspected Nessus may have used their own struggle, sense of guilt and deep feeling of personal responsibility to evolve into a position of being truly helpful to others with many of the same issues. While a price was paid for this gift, few would doubt that it was worth it."

THIS is exactly what I have instigated in my life.
I am working with others who experienced the same or similar abuses to myself.
And I do not regret one iota of the abuse I received - I am thankful for it all.
Change one part of it, and nothing in my life would be as it is.

And in this way, Nessus also appears to be connected to Chiron "The Wounded Healer" concept.
Food for thought.

I am thinking that Chiron is where we go deep into our pain to find the lessons, and Nessus is where we share that wisdom with others.

SO, I am proud of my Nessus!


Does this interpretation play out for anyone else?

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Aubyanne
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posted April 06, 2015 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely. That's a WONDERFUL definition.

Mine is in a stellium with CERES-MENTOR-SCHRODINGER and NYMPHE, and opposite AMOR-ALICE.

Bizarrely accurate.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 07, 2015 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Auby,

excellent!

I've always been a believer that there is something of value in everything.

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Aubyanne
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posted April 08, 2015 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Auby,

excellent!

I've always been a believer that there is something of value in everything.


Exactly! I recall once asking iQ how you're to interpret NESSUS when it's not abusing. He said to remember that he was otherwise ferrying the newly departed across the River Styx into Hades. So, really, it's about transcendence. Especially when it comes to difficult, even painful changes. Undoubtedly, the centaurs always have a 'wounded' or transformative vibe to them. NESSUS' is perhaps the most chilling because of the depth of his betrayal: the manipulation from beyond the grave in order to exact personal vengeance.

DEJANIRA can be a 'switch' to activate NESSUS, but if it's already operating on an evolved level, even DEJA isn't enough to corrupt it. The obsession is likely to play out, however, with the theme being transcendence of, most logically, societal taboos, social mores, and acting in an otherwise unconventional or rebellious fashion. Opposing the status quo.

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Delilah423
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posted April 09, 2015 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love you guys!

Auby, you have offered some incredible interpretations of Nessus in a variety of threads on LL. I can never find them when I want/need them; maybe someday I'll try to find them all and post links to this thread, which I am bookmarking.

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Aubyanne
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posted April 09, 2015 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delilah423:
I love you guys!

Auby, you have offered some incredible interpretations of Nessus in a variety of threads on LL. I can never find them when I want/need them; maybe someday I'll try to find them all and post links to this thread, which I am bookmarking.


Thanks, Delilah. I try. I can't abide by judgement-laden interpretations of things we don't even fully understand. 'Oh! NESSUS! That makes you a terrible person. Totes sorry!' One of the qualities I love most of Linda's is her lack of fatalism. As a therapist, I'm all about change and evolution; I can't get anywhere if I look at a chart and say, 'oops, sorry, you drew the short end; you're screwed.'

NESSUS is fascinating. As a profiler, it's even more intriguing to me, as the first thing we learn is that anyone has the potential to be the worst possible version of themselves -- even developing into a violent, homicidal personality. When dealing with such negative mythology, I think it's best that we remember it's just a snapshot of one individual's (supposed) life -- a particularly salient one. A story, which contains a lesson, or conveys an experience. Granted, we tend to attribute the most salient trait or experience to a personality or instance. We don't think of Hitler as a poor painter and autistic fetishist -- we remember him as a mass-murdering f*ckhead (to paraphrase Eddie Izzard, one of my favourite comics).

And so it goes with Nessus. He had one really bad day, in which he failed to control his impulse (after repeated perceived provocation) and did (or attempted to do) a very bad thing, for which he should've been punished to the extent available. Instead, Heracles halted the crime-in-process, killing Nessus rather instantly.

But wait, there's more!

By introducing what would later be known as 'the tunic of Nessus', he got his revenge on Heracles by using Deja's fear against her, making her an unwitting instrument to seal her husband's inevitable doom -- should she give into that fear.

Wow. This is psychopathic-mastermind level manipulation. Epitome of villainy. Undoubtedly, not the sort you want on your bad side. You might also run a risk of getting there by refusing the ferrier as well. And so we have the classic case of, 'but, Your Honour, she shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt; I just couldn't help myself.' Erm, with the added twist of not being able to testify in court, on account of being dead, shot by the victim's spouse who happened upon the scene at the right time.

So, really what's NESSUS?

To me, it's something of an id embodiment. The fact that he doesn't withhold his impulse indicates a few things: there's something about DEJA he finds absolutely irresistible, which is capable of uncharacteristic behaviour, and he's willing to play fast-and-loose with society's rules. Ergo, he must have DEJA, and ethical boundary conventions don't enter into the equation.

To me, that's a lot more how I tend to see this point operate. NESSUS is where we tend to go, 'sod it,' and act more selfishly than we otherwise would -- especially in pursuit of desires, whatever they be. So you can imagine, one who's more accepting of their desire nature and being selfish will access their NESSUS more easily than one who's in denial, roped in by their society, or has a strong conscience and superego wagging a giant finger saying, 'now, now, now.'

Ami's right when she says, 'we all have a NESSUS.' Where our opinions diverge is that I hardly believe we all act in selfish, ruthless, uncaring ways. We've just all got the capacity to, as well to go against and break societal taboos.

It's taken me awhile to really understand my own NESSUS. I've got CONSCIENCE right on my LILITH, so even when I'm being 'selfish and uncompromising' I'm still thinking of the consequences of my actions, and how it affects other people. It took my boyfriend's DEJANIRA right on my NESSUS (0) to get me to wake up to the realisation of how much of my own happiness I've sacrificed for the good of others -- down to as trivial as always leaving the last cookie or piece of cake.

As you know, NESSUS wants. It may even desire beyond the capacity with which it's even comfortable. It experiences an overwhelming need and desire to the point of being irresistible.

For me, it's conjunct CERES, SCHRODINGER, and NYMPHE in my 11H, 21-24 CAN. (CERES, 21; SCHRODINGER, 21, NYMPHE, 22, and NESSUS, 24.) It ultimately led to my confessing to my husband (then fiance) that, as our relationship had always been negotiably open, I absolutely wanted -- even needed -- to see where things could go with my boyfriend (then costar). And for me, that's just madness. TOTALLY out of character. For us BOTH, I'd later learn.

But, with him, I have a wonderfully nurturing, supportive, enriching sexual relationship, (CERES-NYMPHE) and, with my husband, it's got a darker edge, in which I get to explore my selfishness to the delight of his masochistic needs (NESSUS-NYMPHE).

As to SCHRODINGER? Well, it's not either / or -- it's both.

That's my best understanding thus far. It's a work in progress!

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Anxiousknot
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posted April 15, 2015 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Anxiousknot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes this really resonates with me.
I have nessus conjunct mercury in my 8th it trines my NN/mars/IC.Sorry not sure how to use the quote function on this forum but your statement;


THIS is exactly what I have instigated in my life.
I am working with others who experienced the same or similar abuses to myself.
And I do not regret one iota of the abuse I received - I am thankful for it all.
Change one part of it, and nothing in my life would be as it is.


This is exactly what i did and how i felt when i was working with people.
I had experienced a very traumatic childhood and when i did the work i did it was as if it gave what i had lived through a purpose,a reason. I believe that helping others helped me to heal and grow. Like yourself i would not change the things that have happened to me.I survived it and put it to good use.

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Aubyanne
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posted April 15, 2015 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exactly, Anxiousknot.

We're able to look the ugly in the eye and transcend much. We're not afraid of the darker, or even more transgressive, things. In fact, we've learnt to incorporate them in healthy, evolved ways.

Not ALL of us, mind. But those who are using NESSUS in a mature, healing capacity.

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BellaFenice
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posted April 16, 2015 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BellaFenice     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THANK YOU for this thread! I hate the way Nessus on this site has been promoted as 100% evil. If someone reads all of the Greek mythology on Nessus, you will also learn the healing aspects of his story. Sure he wasn't totally innocent, but there was a silver lining behind his journey.

I think that goes for all asteroids though- the more we open ourselves to potential other interpretations, the closer we can come to finding the actual 'truth.'

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 16, 2015 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Exactly! I recall once asking iQ how you're to interpret NESSUS when it's not abusing. He said to remember that he was otherwise ferrying the newly departed across the River Styx into Hades. So, really, it's about transcendence. Especially when it comes to difficult, even painful changes. Undoubtedly, the centaurs always have a 'wounded' or transformative vibe to them. NESSUS' is perhaps the most chilling because of the depth of his betrayal: the manipulation from beyond the grave in order to exact personal vengeance.

DEJANIRA can be a 'switch' to activate NESSUS, but if it's already operating on an evolved level, even DEJA isn't enough to corrupt it. The obsession is likely to play out, however, with the theme being transcendence of, most logically, societal taboos, social mores, and acting in an otherwise unconventional or rebellious fashion. Opposing the status quo.


Totally. I think it's about rising above the victim-abuser dichotomy, using the strongest insight possible - having been at least one, or both.

What an excellent opportunity!

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 16, 2015 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anxiousknot,

awesome. You have an excellent Nessus!

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 16, 2015 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bellafenice,

I agree. I have never been able to regard any one thing or person as evil. Even after, as Aubyanne pointed out, having been swallowed and digested by "it".

You can stay down, or you can transform.

I agree about the asteroids. I think we need to look beyond the literal when considering the myths and archetypes.
More to the symbolism and music of the stories.

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RogueReader
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posted April 16, 2015 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RogueReader     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fascinating thread, guys! I've been struggling to understand how the Nessus asteroid operates. I'm a huge believer in self-help, so decoding the centaur asteroids has been on my to-do list for a while now. But, as many have stated, the Nessus info out there is lacks nuance.

I have Nessus (15) on my Libra Ascendant. I have no idea what this means, especially since Libra isn't considered malefic. Any ideas???

------------------
Aquarius sun, Libra rising,
Capricorn moon. Hot mess.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 19, 2015 06:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RogueReader:
Fascinating thread, guys! I've been struggling to understand how the Nessus asteroid operates. I'm a huge believer in self-help, so decoding the centaur asteroids has been on my to-do list for a while now. But, as many have stated, the Nessus info out there is lacks nuance.

I have Nessus (15) on my Libra Ascendant. I have no idea what this means, especially since Libra isn't considered malefic. Any ideas???


Hi Roguereader,

Aqua Sun, Libra AC here also.
There seems to be a bit of confusion around the AC. I am new to astrology, so thankfully not stuck in any one way of thinking about it - the downside being, I struggle to decide one way or another when there is controversy!

I would hazard a guess that if the AC is the outward expression of the self, as it is perceived by others, then one with Nessus on the AC may either be very comfortable with, or unable to hold back, in sharing wisdom and insight gained from wounds, with others. IF peace has been made with the abuses.

I think integrated Nessus on an axis can be an agent of transformation of abuse, if we view the axis as energies in-energies out.

I have Nessus conjunct MC and NNode, and I use the insights I gained from abuse wounds in my career in mental health.

Alternative interpretations of Nessus would have me as a professional abuser!
Or inclined to receive abuse through career, or aimed at public image - neither of which have played out.

I think Nessus requires deep reflection, of (self) therapeutic levels, such as Aubyanne has expressed, to understand and integrate.

And what is "abuse" will vary depending on the individual, and their level of awareness of self and others.


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AngaCrowley
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posted April 19, 2015 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AngaCrowley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have nessus conj leo asc-angel(which is also my personal name asteroid)-Saint Micheal-Logos, all very tight. They are also all retrograde (everything in my 1st is). I know the frustration with how it's treated! This *definitely* resonates with me.

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Aubyanne
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posted April 19, 2015 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Totally. I think it's about rising above the victim-abuser dichotomy, using the strongest insight possible - having been at least one, or both.

What an excellent opportunity!


This would potentially explain my being a 'psycho killer' magnet. In college, I was about reform. As I aged, I went through a 'if there weren't bars between us, I'd probably kill you' phase, finally settling into a more productive stance of 'no one possesses that right totally' and finding my place among the more involved outside observers; tertiary, but present. If that makes sense.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 20, 2015 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AngaCrowley:
I have nessus conj leo asc-angel(which is also my personal name asteroid)-Saint Micheal-Logos, all very tight. They are also all retrograde (everything in my 1st is). I know the frustration with how it's treated! This *definitely* resonates with me.

Excellent Anga!
Isn't it great when the picture starts expanding into a vista?

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 20, 2015 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
This would potentially explain my being a 'psycho killer' magnet. In college, I was about reform. As I aged, I went through a 'if there weren't bars between us, I'd probably kill you' phase, finally settling into a more productive stance of 'no one possesses that right totally' and finding my place among the more involved outside observers; tertiary, but present. If that makes sense.

Yes. I too went through the rage stage.
I suspect it is unavoidable, as like you say, no one has that right, and that begins with what was imposed upon the self.
The anger from that injustice must be worked through, in order to clear enough room to expand the perception.

Let's face it, and you will know this from your work, within most abusers is a frightened child. And anyone who has been a victim can learn to identify with that frightened child, once they have stabilised themselves.
I am not saying they have to, everyone will process in-line with their life goals, but I truly believe that is the highest point of healing from abuse.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted April 26, 2015 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


Does anyone else have experience of their Nessus leading to transformation of abuse?

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted May 16, 2015 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
bump

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meissieri
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posted May 16, 2015 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for meissieri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see Nessus as Pluto or difficult Mars/Pluto apects in the chart: you could be the perp but you could also attract these types. Doesn't matter what the aspect is. I have Nessus conjunct my Venus and Juno, and Venus rules my 1st/8th house. It's also parallel my Mars. So I definitely see how it can go either way for me - touching a 'soft' and a 'hard' planet.

It does take a lot of responsibility on the Nessus person (in synastry, I mean), because the other person will inadvertently step on old triggers/traumas without meaning to, hell, without even knowing they do until Nessus gives an extreme reaction. The lower expression of Nessus may lead to Nessus thinking the other person is the cause for all of these traumas coming back - and feel it's all their fault. The evolved Nessus realizes this is their own vulnerability, their fear of history repeating itself and when, for instance, the other person says something that hurts them - they're actually hearing a parent/ex/teacher/ex best friend/boss who used to treat them badly. They are extremely afraid and I see the resemblance talked here with Chiron - but I think it's harder to control Nessus (Chiron still has the teacher side to him, wanting to help), while I think Nessus may be able to help others and heal their problems once they've gotten a handle on their own trauma.

And yes the positive expression is definitely helping others cope and heal their abuse. With my Nessus, nearly every good friend and relationship I've had was with someone who was abused in some way. Some of my closest girlfriends (Venus conjunct Nessus!) would open up to me while they had always stuffed it down. It hurt my heart hearing about people doing these things to such sweet girls, but I was glad I could offer them support and someone who listened - and believed them.

I do feel like I still have a lot to learn in sympathy for certain types of abuse (the types that I didn't go through thankfully!), but I know I've done the best I can for them. I've mostly suffered verbal and emotional abuse, and I was sexually harrassed by one of my doctors as a teenager (something I thought I was just exaggerating and that it was just him doing his job, that I overrracted).

I do wish there was a less fanatical view on Nessus here. As a newbie finding out I had an abuse asteroid conjunct my Venus, and meaning I must be an abuser to every person I've been in a relationship with, that really scared the cr*p out of me!

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Ami Anne
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posted May 16, 2015 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This is what I find. The yin planets/passive ones(Venus and the Moon) GET abused and the yang planets(Sun, Mars, ASC and NN) seem to abuse.

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http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Ami Anne
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posted May 16, 2015 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With Venus, I see her getting abused. The Sun, Mars, ASC and NN seem to abuse.

Actually, with the Moon, I am not sure.

The IC seems to get abused and the MC seems to abuse.

------------------
Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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popcorn
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posted May 16, 2015 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for popcorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to say

His PR venus opp his PR nessus 0-1 applying
My PR venus sexti his PR nessus o-1 applying
Our PR composite venus trine his PR nessus 0-1 applying
Our PR dejanira trine our PR nessus 1 app

The man I talked about on 2009 here on LL ... IQ told me he was my true love or twinsoul.... Today when the progression looks like above he suddenly being back into my life....nessus seems to me be like strong karma...

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted May 17, 2015 06:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
With Venus, I see her getting abused. The Sun, Mars, ASC and NN seem to abuse.

Actually, with the Moon, I am not sure.

The IC seems to get abused and the MC seems to abuse.


Perhaps you didn't read the OP, Ami.

I have NESSUS conj. NN. And I do not abuse.

We have to open our minds a bit on this one.

How do you feel about the many members coming away from this site, frantic that they are or will become an abuser?

Some of those members may even be survivors of abuse - are you comfortable with this?

Assertions like this must be tested, tested, tested.
As the damage they can cause in individuals who are vulnerable is potentially abusive itself.

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