posted April 04, 2006 02:07 PM         

FWB - not many Saturn aspects?? Maybe something to do with Uranus??

posted April 04, 2006 02:09 PM         

As long as noone is hurt in the process... Friends with benefits sounds like fun!

The best relationship usually starts out as friends and if it evolves into something else... whether it be just sex or love, as long as noone is getting hurt and noone is forcing another to be; all is good.

What is not cool though is if one person more than the other is secretly hoping that the relationship would take a turn for the "better" and would get disappointed.

But hey, anything could happen, afterall, we are ALIVE and constantly changing.

Miss Muffet

posted April 04, 2006 02:11 PM         

Your moons are both in water signs...they would understand each other well...frustrations would probably stem from certain other aspects in the synastry involving the Moons. However, synastrically speaking, water Moons 'get' each other! (Same element affinity)

The sensitivity of the PIS Moon certainly could be ruffled by the SCORP Moon. I bet there are differences with your Mercurys-that is where I might look for conflicts.

Truly, I would love to look at both of your charts if you wouldn't mind posting the birth data...please. I really enjoy exploring the charts of people who have been together for many years and still feel connected!

Especially, I agree with your words with regard to having your own identity-not trying to change the other person to be someone they are not. Lots of people miss this point and attempting to control the other partner becomes the focus (instead of accepting the partner with all their lovelies, bumps and bruises).

Knowing yourself and knowing what makes you happy (values etc...) is an important part of a successful relationship too! Taking the time to truly discover the other person through Friendship leads to greater things if that is what is meant to be....as you mentioned....Love will come if it is meant to happen! It finds a way...

GemStar

posted April 04, 2006 02:36 PM         

>>>>>As long as friendhip is the main, or only beginning there is a good chance for a lasting friendship...with or wihout sex, in my opinion....and for it to evolve into love.

Katherine Hepburn understood that.

And Lialei
About those with Venus in Scorpio.
You are so right!
Major opposites in too many ways!
Other factors at work...besides those two aspects....like Sun and decan and so forth.

I know several elderly folks who do not want to remarry(or it is not feasible) but enjoy the "rare" act of "comfort sex" with another.
Why should that be wrong?
And why only for the elderly?
And yes...it depends on the mutual respect of the folks involved.
We are not talking here of a pick up, off the street, of a stranger for a good time boinking.

Scorpionic Web was referring to "friends with benefits".

And to ones who think they are so noble and pure. Cut the hypocritical talk. Here at LL are several who think it is Ok for "THEM" to have SEX with a "FRIEND".
(To those who are not being hypocrites...this is not directed at you.)
The hypocrites may call it love...but are married or engaged to somone else. But if you are planning to, or having sex with a friend...it is still sex, love or not.
I see nothing wrong with that as long as no one is getting hurt. Married or single. Respect come first.
But to cut down Scorpionic Web for wanting to do the same...is just plain hypocritical!

posted April 04, 2006 03:13 PM         

Come on folks!
So now it is ALWAYS wrong for anyone to have sex unless they are engaged or married????????

So what century is this again???????

posted April 04, 2006 03:31 PM         

Maybe folks who want sex are forming these "sex only" arrangements to avoid the troubles associated with random pick ups or dates...because of the dangers of deadly sexual diseases these days. It makes sense that those kind of arrangements could slow the spread of disease as opposed to just casual sex with a Complete stranger.
Again...honesty and respect must be there, even in this type of arranged sex encounters by mutual agreement.

posted April 04, 2006 03:37 PM         

Thank you so much for sharing the gift of your wisdom!
PS: There are at least a handful of us here who are older than your marriage

Lialei, GemStar, Fayte, AG ~

Well said, my friends -- I don't think I could add even one more word to expand on your thoughts

posted April 04, 2006 03:59 PM         

I think maybe this song might show what we're talking about here?

Help Me Make It Through The Night

Take the ribbon from your hair
Shake it loose and let it fall
Layin' soft upon my skin
Like the shadows on the wall

Come and lay down by my side
Till the early mornin' light
All I'm takin' is your time
Help me make it through the night

I don't care who's right or wrong
I don't try to understand
Let the devil take tomorrow
Lord tonight I need a friend
Yesterday is dead and gone
And tomorrow's out of sight
And it's sad to be alone
Help me make it through the night

Lord it's sad to be alone
Help me make it through the night

~Kris Kristofferson

posted April 04, 2006 04:05 PM         

Thank you!
I added to my previous post. I was not being negative by using the phrase "boink buddy"...only trying to tie it in with the concept of a booty call.
But to me a booty call is anyone who is being "used" just for sex...a stranger or any one....even a wife can be a "piece of booty" if her husband has no love or respect for her. Or the other way around.
And like I said...
If all involved agree..and respect each other...
Who gives a rats ass or a flying fig what they do?
And these sex only arrangements can stop or slow the spread of STDs and also provide a safety valve..or release that will give an otherwise sexually healthy person an outlet , other than masturbation....
And may prevent the getting love and sex confused and marrying the wrong person, because of navete' and or taking a moral highground, that causes the persons to think they were/are "in love"...when all it was, or may have been was/is pure Lust...hiding under a veil of "Romantic Expectaion Excitement"....but being only another bi-product of the hormonally induced Romantic "unrealistic love" that befalls many folks in their teens...women about 36, and then again those pushing 50, or who are menopausal, trying to recapture their youth, or something they feel they missed out on. Same for men in middle age crisis.
And they call it love and romance when often they are only sexually hungry!

So call a spade a spade. But do not condemn those who recognize their need or desire for sex, and call it that...but then think you are somehow more noble because you call it love or romance and still have sex....
Whew...rant over....I hope!

posted April 04, 2006 05:31 PM         

Yes I understand KK's song very well..... and I have been there for a friend who lost his father suddenly. I like to believe that night of intensity helped him to heal, to get the emotions expressed by physical means. Keeping them bottled up is far more destructive..... he and I remained good friends afterwards, and we never slept together again, but there was a special additional depth to our friendship from that night of sharing.....

posted April 04, 2006 05:49 PM         

Typically, I philosophize over coffee with my Libra and laugh with my Sagittariette while hiking. When the mood strikes us, we have sex.

And it IS love. I LOVE both of these girls to death with all of my twisted heart.

Because of the presumptuous nonsense that gets in the way with REAL dating, I find I'm actually closer to these girls than I've been to most of my legit girlfriends. And for us to be able to enjoy sexual contact is a bond that I cherish; putting us on a level that I consider very special.

I'm typically RIDICULOUSLY jealous, but only when I'm desirously obsessing- which is often, but it takes a very particular kind of girl to make me that crazy-lustful.

posted April 04, 2006 07:17 PM         

First of all, I believe each person has the right to choose what suits them, their lives, and their own moral code, and I do not judge others who don't believe the same things as I. Each person is an individual and has individual experiences and views that shape what fits into their life.

Sorry, felt like this was a debate...had to do that. LOL..

Anyway, I've had a friend with benefits sort of arrangement for the last 2 1/2 years with a guy that started out basically as purely a physical thing. At first, he and I were both completely comfortable with the arrangement being purely sexual, but found that it lacked something or we both were searching for more. Either way, after about a year, we both realized that the sex became much better when feelings were involved, discussed, and realized, even though we both knew they existed very shortly after our initial meeting.

He is a great person and a great friend. We talk often, about nothing and everything. We laugh at each other's jokes and find humor in the irony of life together. We have found that besides having a physical relationship, an intensely emotional one suits us as well. It's odd...he and I have never labeled each other has bf/gf...etc..What exists is beyond a label. It is emotional, spiritual, sexual, and sweet. I couldn't begin to describe the level of intensity that exists between he and I and often things are understood between us in a quiet way. We both just know each other.

We both enjoy the closeness, emotion, and sharing that comes from having a sexual relationship and relate very well in that manner. It may seem rather odd to those who have not experienced it, but to me it fits.

It has nothing to do with lack of involvement or respect, quite the opposite. We enjoy each other, appreciate each others' minds, and know that something clicks when we are together. But I do, without a doubt, consider him a friend and I know he thinks of me the same.

We do love each other, but in a way that is almost liberating. We give each other space to be indivuals, but seem to meld together when we are close. He appreciates me for my mind, my outspoken personality, and yet seems to be the one that brings that quiet sensuality out of me. He has taught me to see things in myself that I didn't see before..and I have done the same for him. We don't belong to each other, because it's not about ownership. We just ARE....together. There is complete comfort and understanding and neither one of us has any confusion about where things are going or what we want from each other. We just enjoy the time we have together and see it as an opportunity for growth, experimentation, relating on an emotional level, and the acceptance that we are what we are.

It's a great feeling to have a friend that understands me and that I understand so well, too. We have discovered things about ourselves that were hidden through, what seems to me, a sexual route that lead to so much more.

I do believe that people can relate in so many ways and experience so many things through the intensity that sexuality and sensuality brings, whether it is through a conventional manner or otherwise. What is not necessary, in my opinion, is the want to label things as this or that, because many other things exist outside the box of conventionalism.

Each person has their own views and their own code to follow..and I believe that as long as there is respect, understanding, and acceptance that things will grow and change...then do whatever makes you happy. By trying to categorize things we often miss out on the things that we didn't expect would fit.

SB

posted April 04, 2006 07:23 PM         

All of my relationships have had that deep friendship with the exception of two. Those two were the hardest relationships of my life and the second was with my ex-fiance.

I felt, that even though we said we "loved" each other, there was never that soul-connection or emotional-love connection. It felt like one dark, semi-friendship with benefits where sex became punishment or reward depending on if he would allow us to have it or not.

He was a Taurus Sun / Virgo moon / Venus in Cancer / Mars in Pisces. I'm a Sag Sun / Aries moon / Venus in Sagittarius / Mars in Pisces.

We had tons of Saturn / Pluto connections.

In the end - it all felt wrong -even dirty because I didn't love him- what love I had felt had dissipated when I realized it wasn't true love at all. After than realization everything seemed empty.

Now I am with a Leo Sun / Pisces moon / Venus in Virgo / Mars in Taurus. For some reason it's smooth with us. There isn't this feeling of "sex is the focal point- either it's taken away as a punishment of if I am being a good girl, I'll get it".

LOL.... with us it's natural and can start with only a kiss goodnight..that lingers.

I can't imagine him ever being a friend with benefits, but he is also my friend - one of my best friends. We can just walk downtown and talk about nothing and end up giggling.

I have had the empty sex with someone that I felt only a faint friendship with and I have had sex with someone I love - it's so different.

I also have Saturn in Taurus in the 8th house. That may be what stops me from the "FWB" lifestyle. I have tried the "girl, you're single, so get yours" thing and that wasn't fulfilling in the least.

posted April 04, 2006 08:09 PM         

Scorpionic Web, I didn't know, but had a feeling they were more than sexual. Thanks for clarifying. Curious...do both girls know about each other and are the relationships openly understood by them? (only answer if you like..not to judge, just curious how it works.)

spellbound, that is beautiful.
Attempts at labeling it would bring about its fall? I think I understand. Anyway, it's what I was meaning by manipulations, and expectations. Taking something already felt and there in its purity and needing to conform it into a neat and tidy box of definition and direction.

Ending a marriage, I requestion the validity of conventional arrangements. Controlling life vs. flowing with the currents.

posted April 04, 2006 11:37 PM         

I respect those who wish to keep the experience "pure",
and sacred, in the sense of being set aside for special use,
and not to take it up lightly.
Because it can get confusing.
But, I also respect those who wish to play,
and explore, and enjoy, without dogma or expectation.

I think this is a personal issue.
I think its possible for sex to be one thing to one person,
and something else to another,
and one is not more "right" than the other.
Both are right for themselves,
and wrong for each other.

For myself, I have been both of these people.
I have felt differently, at different times in my life.
Sometimes I feel differently every day.
So, how do I keep from being a hypocrite?
I don't judge. (It's the only way.)

-----

Gemstar -

I don't know whether to praise your directness,
or admonish your arrogance.
I can't tell which it is.

"Fast food take-out will never trump the 7-course meal at a gourmet restaurant."

That may be...
But we can't all eat at a 7-course, gourmet restaurant every night, now can we?
Do you really think we little people are cowards not to starve ourselves?

Also,
There are plenty of things that don't compare to making true love.
Are they all pointless and deplorable?

And, lastly,
I have heard mystics use similar language
to describe the experience of union with God,
and how even romantic love is like dung in comparison.
Perhaps you should join a convent?

----

LiaLei -

I love what you wrote.

Especially this:

"I believe most often casual sex isn't really just about the sex for most people.
Even if they're unaware of it themselves at the time,
it's more a yearning for connection to ease their loneliness."

I wholeheartedly agree.

As for people touting their own sign, etc.,
I would agree, but that "pathetic" is such a
strongly negative word.
People do that because they are insecure,
and trying to build themselves up
(the only way they know how;
by knocking others down).
It is sad, and it is, as you say, "pathetic",
but I just don't like to label someone's behavior that way,
without explaining my understanding and sympathy
(and occassional empathy, I confess) with them, as well.

----

Dulce Luna,

I can appreciate your point, but,
do you really think its either/or?
Aren't there, rather, many shades of grey,
between "booty call" and "making love";
at least, for one who is open to their possibility?
What do you think about that quote from Lia I pasted above?

-----

I dont know who said this:

"Venus in Scorpio... It would be interesting to know if many prostitutes,
male and female, have this placement!"

I wouldnt be surprised.
But I've read that it is fairly common among saints and mystics, as well.
Scorpio IS, after all, the sign of extremes.

posted April 05, 2006 01:38 AM         

I had a one-time encoutner w a friend whom I was attracted (: Afterwards, it was like um no. I don't regret it, we had been drinking and sort of fell into it and it clarified our boundaries/feelings. It enver happened again w him and we were able to remain friends wiht no hard feelings.

Another situation was w a guy friend whom had emotional feelings for me whom I didn't dig. I was lonely and decided to try the FWB thing. Ahhh that was a bad move on my part. After we slept together, he got possesive and wanted to be my bf. He persisted and I gave it a try but we were not comapatiable at all. That was the most negative "relationship" ever. Ew. Makes me cringe to even recall the whole thing.

Still, I don't regret my experiences... Cringworthy as they are, I learned a lot. I know now that if something/someone feels wrong than they/it is. I would never again "try" to force soemthing just because soemone is "nice" to spare their feelings. Living through what I don't want and I now have a better picture of what I do want (:

posted April 05, 2006 07:07 AM         

I know this is a highly-charged subject..but whatever your opinion, please-oh-please...

...do not be vicious to others.

Calling people "pathetic" or "hypocrites"...this can be really hurtful.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone else' views, but also, aren't we here to love and support each other?

posted April 05, 2006 08:06 AM         

Just a few were a tad defensive....Hmmm.

Either way, I have noticed that some people have read things and twisted poster's intentions along the way....that was not necessary. Everyone has a right to their opinion about FWB and can express it as they wish...additions of words/meanings which were not intended were also unnecessary as well.

Overall, I think this was a great thread to express our thoughts on the subject-whether you agree or not! Many people read these who do not post at all and perhaps it will help some people clarify their own relationships! Lots of good can be found!!

GemStar

posted April 05, 2006 09:04 AM         

quote:

---

"I was talking about serious friendships PLUS sex. Sex as an addition."

---

Azalaksh
Thank you! It is good to hear of another who truly understands that sexual union can help "get one through the night", and help heal grief or loneliness.

spellbound!
Excellent reply! You have a good heart and are rational and a realist! You understand that real love/deep friendship is not always hearts and flowers...but it is still meaningful in positive soul growth enriching ways! Wonderful!

pidaua!
You described very much how it was with my ex husbands. I LET ROMANTIC unrealistic love and all the expectations and desire and longing carry me away.
But it was all really only an illusion of love.
And I too can relate to not wanting the sex only romps. But even though that is not something I want now, and have not for over 3 decades.
I CAN see why some still want sex without the commitment. To each their own. Just be careful and hurt no one. But I am not interested in that for myself personally now. But that does not mean it was/is wrong.
When I was into the "free love" scene of the 60s and 70s....it was because of being a stoner. And Needing validation of my attractiveness and desirability. Once I realized that when I was NOT stoned, that I did NOT want sex only for sex sake.....I stopped doing both, the being a stoner and the spur of the moment casual sex.
And I finally discovered how to love and respect myself in time, no longer Needing that false validation of my desirability or attractiveness.

Lialei
I totally agree with you!

Planet_Soul!
Wise words! Spoken by one having been there!

Gooberzlostlovefound.....
Denying the FACT that some folks ARE being HYPOCRITICAL is not insulting them.
It is calling spade a spade. Accepting their hypocrisy or bigotry or holier than thou judgmental attitude does not make the issue being discussed just go away. Nor erase their attitude, nor help them become an understanding person. Why would one want to support an attitude like that?
Help them see that they are not being tolerant of others, and assuming everyone feels and should be exactly like them, is NOT loving or supportive. Folks need our love and support to help them grow beyond their narrow view...and to realize "one size does not fit all".
To simply sit back and smile...la la la, put up with their hypocrisy is not doing them any favor, nor is it a sign of support, love and respect. It is feeding right back into their denial mechanisms, and from there they will not grow. That is wrong.

HSC
Good reply.

GemStar
Good reply too.

Wonderful Topic Scorpionic Web!