posted November 29, 2007 08:16 PM         

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Mustang, I agree with you that we ALL on occasion fantasize (i.e. that attractive person in the elevator, an actor/actress, etc.), but it is always to an extent. And, we would NEVER tell our partner - that could potentially damage their ego!
On the other hand, I think if you start to fantasize about someone more accessible (i.e. a co-worker, your partner's friend, etc.), THAT could have the tendency to become unhealthy if taken too far.

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So far this resonates with me the most.
I agree.

posted November 29, 2007 08:26 PM         

I found this:
http://www.mcastleman.com/page3/page41/page57/page62/page62.html

quote:

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Mustang, I agree with you that we ALL on occasion fantasize (i.e. that attractive person in the elevator, an actor/actress, etc.), but it is always to an extent. And, we would NEVER tell our partner - that could potentially damage their ego!
On the other hand, I think if you start to fantasize about someone more accessible (i.e. a co-worker, your partner's friend, etc.), THAT could have the tendency to become unhealthy if taken too far.

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posted November 29, 2007 08:58 PM         

What a shame that so many people feel it’s wrong to engage in something as normal as wide-ranging sexual fantasies. Sex is a spiritual experience, a kind of meditation, if you will. In meditation, people take a break from their chores, sit quietly, breathe deeply, and try to empty their minds, transcending themselves to connect with the world beyond them. But mind-emptying is not easy. Random thoughts dart in and out of conscioussness. Meditators are taught to accept these thoughts without judging them, no matter how bizzare they might be. Fleeting thoughts are simply there to be observed and then dismissed, as meditators emerge refreshed and relaxed from their contemplative time-out.

Lovemaking is similar. Lovers take a break from the rest of their busy lives. But instead of sitting quietly, they substitute erotic explorations, while breathing deeply, and transcending themselves to feel deeply connected with each other, afterward emerging refreshed and relaxed from their sensual, meditative interlude.

posted November 29, 2007 09:03 PM         

quote:

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The simple answer for my part is that I sometimes fantasize, though I'm absolutely present for my partner. My sexuality is complicated and mysterious even to myself, though, so there's a heck of a lot involved that I'm not sure I want to go into.

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posted November 29, 2007 10:44 PM         

quote:

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Random thoughts dart in and out of conscioussness.

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quote:

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The simple answer for my part is that I sometimes fantasize, though I'm absolutely present for my partner. My sexuality is complicated and mysterious even to myself, though, so there's a heck of a lot involved that I'm not sure I want to go into.

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I agree. It doesn't mean I'm not present for them. It's just like what I posted above - my mind wanders sometimes, but it always wanders back. I also don't want to go into more of this, personally.

I'm glad everyton enjoyed the article.

posted November 29, 2007 11:02 PM         

NAM.. What of the world do you really know? You speak of talking to the world but I can tell you, in my almost 38 years here on Earth.. most of the people I know, straight, gay, lesbian and others.. all want the same thing.. that spirtual and physical connection. If you are just "doing" someone for the sake of scratching that itch.. then again that is your right as long as he / she knows they are just a tool to get you off. If you love them or say so and they love you.. then you are breaking their heart.. You are using them and therefore the Karma you are inflicting upon yourself will be ten-fold.

posted November 29, 2007 11:25 PM         

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NAM.. What of the world do you really know? You speak of talking to the world but I can tell you, in my almost 38 years here on Earth.. most of the people I know, straight, gay, lesbian and others.. all want the same thing.. that spirtual and physical connection. If you are just "doing" someone for the sake of scratching that itch.. then again that is your right as long as he / she knows they are just a tool to get you off. If you love them or say so and they love you.. then you are breaking their heart.. You are using them and therefore the Karma you are inflicting upon yourself will be ten-fold.

Germany is treating us very well... We love it here but would love it anywhere as long as we are together.. that is what a physical and spiritual bond will get you!!!

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I get it now, you think I am out there just screwing guys around, nope... that is not me I can count with my fingers the amount of partners I have had in my life and I am 36.
We are just talking about real life issues.
No I do not jump from bed to bed with guys but i do have many (many) friends that I talk to about things people don't talk all the time.A lot are from different (odd) ways of life that I share frienships with, some more than others, so when I say the world, yes I mean quiet a bit of it.

If you look around here you have a lot of different people from many different places and backgrounds and trust me they all have their points of view.

As you have also mentioned a lot of people want that "that spirtual and physical connection" but at the same time a lot of them do things that will not bring them that fulfillment because of other issues in tehir lifes (control,not knowing themselves etc).
My point on all these is to understand better.And with that a lot of times I open myself to a better understanding of myself as well.

I am glad Germany is treating you well, but I am really excited to know that you two know what it means to have one another, you are lucky, a lot of people don't.

Now, let me ask you a question?
Why is it so hard to talk about something like this and why are you always so defensive?

posted November 30, 2007 12:06 AM         

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Maybe it is a Saggie thing. Because it takes us awhile before we totally give.. but we won't really settle for anything less than "all"

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NAM's a Saggie Rising, and you should read her posts:

NAM:
All I know is that from a lot of people's point of view here we are suppose to turn into robots with no feelings and a special love for a partner is nothing but a drug, just like any other illegal drug out there and we are suppose to dettach from it...
Now that sounds HORRIBLE to me. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/002955-2.html

quote:

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You speak of talking to the world but I can tell you, in my almost 38 years here on Earth.. most of the people I know, straight, gay, lesbian and others.. all want the same thing.. that spirtual and physical connection.

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Through sex? I don't think so. Some maybe, but not most.

quote:

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If you are just "doing" someone for the sake of scratching that itch.. then again that is your right as long as he / she knows they are just a tool to get you off. If you love them or say so and they love you.. then you are breaking their heart.. You are using them and therefore the Karma you are inflicting upon yourself will be ten-fold.

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posted November 30, 2007 02:21 AM         

Fantasising? so what... no big deal. Better than cheating, no?

Actually l think it is rather healthy to fantasise sometimes.

oh, and btw the threesome thing was a joke!?!?

Sex is supposed to be fun and enjoyable and l think personally that a little spicing up is not a bad thing at all.

Anyway, l would never judge another. Who am l to tell someone if it's good or bad if they use their mind in a certain way or even tell them what to do!!!

posted November 30, 2007 02:52 AM         

thinking about someone else during sex is very common. sometimes there is guilt felt afterwards, but why feel guilt over something you may or may not be able to control? thinking of someone else can spice up a rather drabby sex life until you can get to the heart of the matter.

i don't mean to sound frivilous at all, and not to point any fingers at anyone here, i'm simply stating my opinion. i think we are all welcome to our own, and shouldn't degrade others for their thoughts.

i hope i didn't offend anyone here, i only hope to maybe open your mind to a different possibility, as you have opened mine as well.

hope everyone here is doing well!

posted November 30, 2007 03:15 AM         

quote:

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Goodness me this subject has become so intense lol
Fantasising? so what... no big deal. Better than cheating, no?

Actually l think it is rather healthy to fantasise sometimes.

oh, and btw the threesome thing was a joke!?!?

Sex is supposed to be fun and enjoyable and l think personally that a little spicing up is not a bad thing at all.

Anyway, l would never judge another. Who am l to tell someone if it's good or bad if they use their mind in a certain way or even tell them what to do!!!

Are you guys all in the USA?

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It has gotten pretty intense. I also don't think it's that big of a deal.

Every person has a right to their opinion and behaviour as long as it doesn't hurt someone. Some people act as if she should be stoned in the local courtyard, which is a really unfair. To judge someone for having thoughts (that they probably can't control) is a bit harsh. Her partner is probably mentally sexing up whatever porn star he saw while he surfed the internet during his lunch break. And what about men who go to strip clubs and get lap dances? (This is going to open up a whole can of worms!)

What if he doesn't get a lap dance, and just comes home to you - do you really think he doesn't fantasize about her, if only for a minute, during your lovemaking?

Taking it further, what about couples who watch adult videos together? Aren't they not being turned on by their partner, initially? Their precipitating desire is brought on, not by love, but by lust(heaven's to Betsy!)And if they still peek at the tv during sex...well... Are they using their partner and setting themselves up for bad karma as a couple?

I'm not trying to stir stuff up, but just giving some points that should be examined before we rush to stone NAM in the local courtyard.

I am in the USA.

posted November 30, 2007 03:23 AM         

Whatever floats your boat is what l say and agree that as long as you are not intentionally hurting another without their consent then who are any of us to judge what l think is perfectly normal behaviour!!

Nam , don't worry about it. It's all normal and it's all cool. The time you should worry is if you find yourself fantasising about your car or your dog!

posted November 30, 2007 04:05 AM         

Isn't the ORGASM the thing that brings us ALL closer together?

Isn't the ORGASM an inherently selfish thing?

As far as people USING each other sexually, I would argue that ( at least between males and females) that's what we were put on the Earth to do!!! ( i.e. procreate)

I'm not gonna feel faithfully bonded to anyone ,or, feel that anyone is faithfully bonded to me, without having that particular area of life covered!!!

So, on that note, I say, whatever works!!!!

Also , I would like to throw out the Magi interpretation of Juno's influence..which (if I remember correctly) Is, being able to play a role. Juno rules fantasies of ALL kinds ( ESPECIALLY SEXUAL!!) It also rules unfaithfulness.

Perhaps this whole thread might be read better (from an astrological perspective), if it was a "What aspects does your Juno make in your chart?" thread.

Then, perhaps the people that are doing the fantasizing, might stick out in that way, perhaps the seemingly more "prudish" among us might not have as strong of Juno placements in their charts.

Anyway, its just a theory, and I could be wrong!

posted November 30, 2007 09:33 AM         

quote:

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thinking about someone else during sex is very common. sometimes there is guilt felt afterwards, but why feel guilt over something you may or may not be able to control? thinking of someone else can spice up a rather drabby sex life until you can get to the heart of the matter.

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You know that maybe the key right there,I think although it is healthy to do this it also was the beginning of the end of my relationship in my marriage, I just didn't realize what was going on and was acting by instinct and also there were way too many problems thrown at me, so when it came down to intimacy this at first did the trick o be able to behave "normal" as a couple but since the other issues were never resolved then time claimed and took away what needed to be fixed.(the committment, love married, respect married couples should have)

posted November 30, 2007 10:12 AM         

quote:

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Perhaps this whole thread might be read better (from an astrological perspective), if it was a "What aspects does your Juno make in your chart?" thread.

Then, perhaps the people that are doing the fantasizing, might stick out in that way, perhaps the seemingly more "prudish" among us might not have as strong of Juno placements in their charts.

Anyway, its just a theory, and I could be wrong!

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posted November 30, 2007 11:17 AM         

I have studied Magi and myself have a super sexual aspect of Juno/Venus and it makes me very sexual yet faithful.

posted November 30, 2007 03:16 PM         

If you say it is natural and normal and okay,
you are probably a realist.

If you say it is wrong, etc.,
you are probably an idealist.

I'm a realist.

I think its an unfortunate reality.

If everyone had to be sexually stimulated
exclusively by the thought of the beloved,
that would invalidate so many partnerships.
Love would no longer be enough,
or the defining reason for making love.
One would have to be sexually aroused by the beloved,
and not merely emotionally aroused.

No doubt it is a threat to the vanity of men and women everywhere,
and a reality many people would rather deny or villify,
than admit any validity to.

But the truth is,
you dont have to be aroused 100% by your partner.
The vast majority of happy marriages
would instead be broken marriages,
if we laid that superhuman expectation
on our partners and ourselves.

Now, in large part,
I think it is not merely a realist/idealist question,
but, also, a question that men will answer differently,
on average, than women would.

For one thing,
sex is generally tied more closely to love
in the experiences of women,
than in those of men.

It has been said,
"A man will learn to love the woman he is attracted to,
while a woman will learn to be attracted to the man she loves."

Both admirable lessons.

Yet, how fortuneate for women,
to have this advantage,
of finding attractive the ones they love.

My only complaint is when women expect men to be just like them.

Because, it is when we assume that all people
have this natural tendency to be sexually aroused by love,
that we then judge some people as unloving, or immoral,
for being with partners who do not arouse them.

It is sad.

And, ofcourse, a further consideration
is that there are many types of love,
many forms of love that bring people together.

Sure, Venus contacts to Mars will ensure attraction,
and the romantic love that often accompanies these contacts
will be of a very personal variety.
It is of a sort that fully supports the egos of the partners,
and does not threaten or challenge them
to seek means to transcend the ego.

Whereas, Venus contacts to Uranus and Neptune,
evoking energies which are neither sexual nor personal,
yet arouse intense love for the other person,
at a soul and spirit level.

Venus interaspects to Pluto can go either way,
and are often as sexy as they are deeply emotional,
but these are rare, and you dont need to have them,
or Venus/Mars interaspects, for that matter,
in order to consider your relationship valid, and valuable.

HSC
Moon conjunct Juno
Moon square Eros

posted November 30, 2007 03:47 PM         

quote:

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Just as in meditation, try to accept your fantasies without judging them. They are no reflection on your morality, faithfulness, or mental health. In meditation and in sexual fantasy, everything is permitted and nothing is wrong.

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Pidaua,

Its all fine and good to speak idealistically
of holding out for "the one".

Thats a romantic vision, its rarely achieved,
and, if you've found it, more power to you.
But the holistic love you found is due more to luck
than to your own romantic determination to hold out.

Many Sagittarians see themselves grow old waiting for that,
and they realize only when it is too late,
that their insistance on perfection
prevented them from enjoying the good that could have been.

In the end,
you all wise up and reincarnate as Capricorns anyway.

Some of us dont have the luck or the independence of a Sag.

You might consider that others' longing for intimacy
may be far greater and more insistent than your own.
Just as others may not relate to the level of priority
which personal freedom aquires for you,
you may not relate to the level of priority
which connection and impersonal love aquires for many others.
Such a degree of priority does it acquire,
that they are willing to compromise for its sake.
Something which you are quite self-satisfied to never do.

You remind me of a woman who wants to play the piano,
but only if its a Steinway, and who gets her wish,
only to look down on all the starving artists
playing their hearts out on less attractive pianos.

Or, more aptly,
a woman who desires to sing,
but only at Carnegie Hall,
and who gets her wish,
only to sing about how pathetic it must be
for all those who sing on streetcorners,
who can only imagine themselves at Carnegie Hall,
and who sing only for the love of song.

I think, instead of bashing others for being different,
maybe you ought to just count your blessings,
that you have been fortunate enough
to find true love and true lust with one man,
who has, apparently,
at the same time,
found the same thing with you.

I wish you continued happiness and good fortune.

posted November 30, 2007 05:15 PM         

perhaps some of us are just sexually frustrated? i'll be the first to admit it, ha!

and jane: hahaha. i hope you when having sex you don't think of this thread!

HSC: very good insights. well, from EVERYONE. it's nice to see how opinions vary, that's why i love the idea of opinions in general!