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Author Topic:   Algore Lays Another Ice Cube
BlueRoamer
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posted January 17, 2007 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop, you're an idiot.

If you read anything about climate change, you'd know that it can cause extremes in both directions.

Not only this but the Earth is a large system, the global trend is warming, there are always fluctuations under that trend. This is something you simply cannot comprehend, your mind is narrow and weak like a brittle cracker.

You remind me of a child that can't fully grasp a new concept.

Do you feel betrayed that fellow republican Arnold realizes something that your feeble brain cannot?

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted January 17, 2007 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm BR, now that was a mature response to jwhops posts. Funny how you like to point fingers at others yet you turn around and start with the name calling. Good one!!!

Dulce... I personally believe global warming is a farce perpetuated by leftest "cause-heads_ with too much time on their hands, greedy scientists out for making money off the grants stirred up by such an hot topic and politicians using it as a scare tactic for votes.

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BlueRoamer
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posted January 17, 2007 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If that's what you believe Pidpoopa, I have some other theories you might enjoy:

Geocentricity

Heliocentricity

Creationism

And don't even try to tell me the earth is round, if you do you're a witch!


I bet you like those theories don't you? You call yourself a scientist? You're a joke.

It's funny how you right wing facsists find a way to turn everything into a political issue. Just because it's been turned into a political issue does not mean that it is one. It's a scientific issue, and it's a survivial issue.

Fortunately for humanity, morons like you and Jwhop are the minority.

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Dulce Luna
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From: The Asylum, NC
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posted January 17, 2007 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Dulce... I personally believe global warming is a farce perpetuated by leftest "cause-heads_ with too much time on their hands, greedy scientists out for making money off the grants stirred up by such an hot topic and politicians using it as a scare tactic for votes.


Really? Because I thought this was more of scientific issue than a political one. Think about it...ice caps are melting both in the Arctic and the Antarctic. Coastlines are dissapearing while sea levels are rising more and more each year. Its not normal for there to be 60 degree weather on Christmas in the NorthEast. Its not normal for rain not to be falling in Mozambique around this time of year. I've even found out from people back at home that malaria has been spreading to the mountains (high altitudes)....because the temp is rising in the mountains. That's pretty insane sh*t.

And while we're at it, lets talk about the hurricane season the other year....yikes!

The global warming thing makes perfectly logical sense. As long as people keep messing with the enviroment, its obviously going to F things up. Did people honestly think that everything would be a-okay after doing things such as clearing entire rainforests and polluting bodies of water and air?

I won't say "Oh, polluters are evil!" because that would be hypocritical....we're all contributing to this. The thing that needs to happen is a solution...a better alternative to carry on our daily lives without screwing with the enviroment.

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lotusheartone
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posted January 17, 2007 06:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will say it again..I believe we are off kilter, we're off our Axis, we're wobbling..
and we need it to stop..re-verse back to where it was...

Global Warming, no!

does pollution help, NO!

just my onion, once again

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted January 17, 2007 06:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am going to try to better explain, how I see it!

the Earth is tilting, slipping, the poles..
are off...this causes a shift...thus the climate of areas shift...causes turbulance..

when Linda Goodman wrote about, re-versing the poles, she meant to re-verse it to where it was originally...
this we must do...

and the shift begins within each one of US

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted January 17, 2007 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL... well BR, it is nice to see your true colors shining brightly. Maybe when you have something more to post than useless, degrading drivel, intelligent people will begin to address you as an adult and you won't have to continue throw your temper tantrum and resort to name-calling.

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted January 17, 2007 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dulce, I am well aware of science- I have a degree it in and I speak not only from a research perspective but also from a personal persepective. Until scientists can overwhelmingly agree that "global" warming is real and the evidence (not the few crackpots that keep bastardizing statistics) support it, I will take a pass on all the emotional rhetoric. I will leave that to the less informed that wish to bow down to the likes of Al Gore while praying fervently that this cold snap ends and our ice caps melt at a faster rate in order to bring disaster and support their hysterical theories.

I ask one question though... "The same scientists that continue to scream about global warming (as well as the throngs of wacknut believers) also support Evolution from Apes to humans (not micro-evolution but macro-evolution). If they believe in Macro-Evolution does it not makes sense that they should also believe that the strongest of us should adapt to handle global warming or become an entirely new species all together?

Interesting..... guess Evolution is good for one thing but not the other. LOL...

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lotusheartone
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posted January 17, 2007 07:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh Pidaua, hehe, you brought up the Apes, LOL

we are not animals...

we had one creation where, we were really stupid and mixed them. ...humans and animals
that's where Sagitarrius comes In..See. . .
to remind US of our mistake
we are co-creators with GOD. . .

so, that Creation had to end... .

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Dervish
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posted January 17, 2007 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Evolution isn't about the "survival of the strongest/fittest." That's a gross oversimplification. And I don't see how that means someone who believes in evolution is therefore bound to say "bring it on" and try to weed out the weak.

I'm personally of a mind that global warming is real, though I strongly suspect that human causation is exaggerated (Mars is also warming up, btw). I also attended a lecture on it that I came to believe was rehearsed all the way, even the spontaneous Q&A. Which is to say that while I believe that global warming is real, I tend to view anything I hear about it (for or against) with skepticism.


But the one thing I wanted to point out that I don't think anyone has...the government is the biggest pollluter. The primary reason for this is the military industrial complex...which Al Gore has been a big supporter of. Al Gore has also helped get timber "harvested" with NO conservation members, undermined the Endangered Species Act, and a few other environmentally degrading things that I can't recall as well.

Also, according to Rolling Stone (years ago), Bush was actually more of a protector of the environment than Gore (this gets complicated, involving Enron, but I forget those details). Z Magazine and Utne (both leftist) have both trashed Gore as well (on the environment and other issues). conservatives should also like that he's opposed gays and abortions in his history (verbally if not legistlatively), too.

The main thing I don't like about Gore is that he refused to fill out the info for Project Vote Smart. That told me a lot about his character right there, primarily that he was very likely a willful liar.

His movie, An Inconvenient Truth, had many problems, and offered very little in the way of real solutions (and that's assuming that humans are the primary cause for global warming, too). There are, IMO, real solutions to counter human causation, but Gore would oppose them as such solutions would threaten the profits of his special interests that fund his campaign (and went to college with, and probably exchanges Christmas presents with, etc).

Defend the Earth from humans if you must. But keep in mind that Al Gore is one of the humans that the Earth needs to be defended from. :P

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Dulce Luna
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posted January 17, 2007 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well,believe what you want Pid. I will live and let live. I just have the feeling that people are deciding that there is nothing wrong with the planet because they think that this is a political issue....or they want to make it into one.*shakes head*


That's a good theory about shifting poles, Lotus.

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lotusheartone
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posted January 18, 2007 12:04 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dulce Luna, Thanks so much!

you know I think, and I have dreamt..that
a shift happens, and causes so much natural disaster, I pray and meditate, and visualize the poles going back, and our axis not being tilted...

our behaviour and actions on Earth
are causing this shift, tilt...
we have hurt MOther Earth
and Father Sky

but, it is not Global Warming!

what this means simply

the negative is winning

and we need the positive

of all, to bring back
balance


we live in a really sick world right now
where the things that were forbidden in the
beginning

barely mean anything today, nothing is held sacred anymore, or respected,

on the radio today on Rock 101
they were talking about a military woman posing naked in Playboy, and everyOne thought that was okay, it's not okay
how can she work now, they will all be picturing her naked, lol

Even God wears Robes

would you want your children posing naked, in a sensual way, for the World to See?

that is not Art...

and just so you know, I LOve to get naked in the Woods, In the Sun, hehe, where no One can see me. ...

there is nothing wrong with naked

what is wrong is exploitation....

gosh, I'm done, blah blah blah, lol

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted January 18, 2007 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This weather is too hot!!
It's global warming Papa Bear.

This weather is too cold!!
It's global warming Mama Bear.

This weather is just right!!
It's global warming Baby Bear.

Only brain dead morons would think anyone is going to give then every side of the same argument.

In the meantime, this legion of the brain dead can't answer the most simple questions about their latest "cause"...global warming.

Will Algore, savior of mankind from global warming save southern California from the clutches of cooling?

Watch your papers for the headline:

Algore Saves California. Next, The World!!


Winter Blast Brings Snow To West LA, Malibu
CHP To Escort Motorists Through Icy Grapevine
9:43 am PST January 17, 2007
7:04 pm PST January 17, 2007

SANTA CLARITA, Calif. -- Snow fell on the palm trees of West Los Angeles and Malibu Wednesday afternoon as Jack Frost visited the Southland again.

NBC4 forecaster Fritz Coleman said the mixture of precipitation in West Los Angeles at about 3 p.m. included a dusting of snow. Residents in West Los Angeles said the snow accumulated in parking lots, on cars and around palm trees near Wilshire and Santa Monica boulevards and other areas.

Most of the snow fell south of Sunset Boulevard and just east of the 405 Freeway. Residents told NBC4 that several inches of snow fell in their yards.

The last snowfall recorded at Los Angeles International Airport was in January 1962, according to the National Weather Service. Trace amounts -- less than 0.5 inches -- were reported, according to the NWS.

Snow fell earlier Wednesday in Malibu and caused traffic problems on the area's winding and narrow roads. Sleet made driving treacherous on Kanan Dume Road, a steep route through the Santa Monica Mountains where it's more typical to see beach-bound cars loaded with surfboards than a snowplow.

"One of our sergeants said he hadn't seen anything like this in 20 years," said California Highway Patrol Officer Leland Tang at the West Valley Station.

A probation officer at a juvenile camp in the Santa Monicas said he was traveling down Kanan Dume when it began to snow.

"It was snowing pretty good," said Officer Oscar Cross. "The road was covered in ice and slush, and I saw one car slide into a ditch. Everyone seemed scared to drive."

Cross said that when he reached Pacific Coast Highway, the weather turned "nice and sunny."

"It's easy to mistake Malibu at sea level with the Malibu Hills," said Coleman. "Malibu Hills are about 550 feet to 580 feet. That's almost easy to understand. The sea-level snow is not."

More snow was reported in Canyon Country, where a resident said he has not seen snow for about 10 years.

In Ventura County, northwest of Los Angeles, a portion of State Route 33 about 12 miles north of Ojai, was closed due to snow and ice, said Marie Raptis, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Transportation.

Snow, Ice Close Grapevine

Authorities closed the northbound Golden State (5) Freeway at Parker Road in northern Los Angeles County about 8:40 a.m., due to snow and ice on the section of the route popularly known as the Grapevine, the California Highway Patrol reported.

CHP officials said Wednesday evening that the road is expected to remain closed through the night.

"We're at the mercy of Mother Nature," said California Highway Patrol Officer Francisco Villalobos.

Southbound lanes were closed at Laval Road, Villalobos said.

CHP officers escorted motorists -- 100 vehicles at a time -- through the area earlier Wednesday. Vehicles were stopped on the side of the freeway as snowplows cleared paths.

"I go to work in Bakersfield, and I got stuck here," a trucker told NBC4. "It's beautiful."

CHP officers provided motorists with alternate routes, but warned that conditions on some of those roads also were dangerous because of ice and snow.

CHP Officer George White said about three inches of snow accumulated on the freeway, with a layer of ice underneath, causing a number of car and truck spinouts near the Pyramid Lake area. South of Pyramid Lake, in the Santa Clarita area, drivers were contending with hail and slushy snow.

Weather Pattern To Continue

The National Weather Service said the wintry precipitation was from an upper-level low moving through the region.

The cold set in late last week, bringing night after night of freezing overnight temperature to many parts of the state and causing extensive agricultural damage.

In the high desert north of Los Angeles, the early morning low was 8 degrees at Lancaster and 14 at Palmdale. Numerous other points in Southern California had lows in the 30s, with some areas in the 20s. Downtown Los Angeles was 44 overnight.

In the Van Nuys area of the San Fernando Valley, where the morning low was 35, a 6-inch water main broke and flooded a street. Service was cut to 30 homes, said Carol Tucker, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power.

The city's water mains don't freeze because they are underground, but extremely cold water can cause the cast iron pipes to crack, Tucker said.

Fire departments across Southern California have reported hundreds of calls in recent days about burst pipes. The Victorville courthouse got flooded when sprinkler heads ruptured, and broken irrigation lines may have caused a mudslide that blocked a private road to five Pasadena homes with 150 tons of debris Monday night.

A winter weather advisory is in effect for the mountains of Ventura and Los Angeles counties, including the Antelope Valley. Snow might fall as low as the 1,000-foot level. Rain, freezing rain, sleet, and hail are possible.

Highways could freeze overnight, and conditions are expected to be dangerous on the 5 Freeway north of Los Angeles, Highway 14 and Highway 138.

Coleman said there is a 20-percent chance of rain Wednesday night and into Thursday. Most of the rain is expected in Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange counties.

More cold and windy conditions are forecast for Thursday.
http://knbc.nbcweatherplus.com/weathernews/10773559/detail.html

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jwhop
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posted January 18, 2007 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, which is the most potent greenhouse gas, CO2 or Methane? Hint...it's Methane which is 30 times more potent as a greenhouse gas.

What is the most potent of all for absorbing and trapping heat? Hint...it's water vapor from evaporation of the oceans, seas, lakes and rivers..and water vapor is also found in much higher concentrations in the atmosphere.

What causes more evaporation? Hint, ocean warming from increased radiation from the sun..and underwater vents and volcanic activity underwater.

Does CO2 cause warming or does warming cause CO2 levels to rise? Hint...during previous ice ages CO2 levels were much higher than they are now...at times, thousands of times higher...during an ice age.

Where is the overwhelming majority of CO2 stored in it's free state? Hint...in the worlds oceans..especially in the colder water of the oceans.

The ice caps at the poles are said to be melting. Has that ever happened before? Hint...yes, numerous times in the past history of earth, there were no ice caps at all.

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jwhop
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posted January 18, 2007 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, has the earth's temperatures ever been hotter than they are now? Hint...yes, between 1000 and 1300 AD. Farmers farmed Greenland and Iceland..try that now. Great Britain had vineyards...try that now.

What is the most important component for plants of all types? Hint...CO2, without which, they die. Plants thrive on high concentrations of CO2, they yield higher crops...and they also breath in CO2 and expel oxygen..which we like a lot.

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pidaua
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posted January 18, 2007 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh jwhop... there you go again with facts!!! Don't you realize that people like Dervish and BR have no time for facts? LOL...

Dulce... I agree with you 100%- people should be able to believe what they want. My analysis of the facts may be totally different that yours. Some people look at the small percentage of facts and try to apply that to the whole. That is a gross misuse of science and data yet our former VP Al Ignore Gore pushes it every chance he gets (while jetting around the globe and driving his gas guzzling SUV).

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Dulce Luna
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posted January 18, 2007 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW, I do agree that Al Gore has a political agenda behind this. That's unfortunate too because the unnatural climate changes in the Earth is a real issue (alteast I think it is) and apparently its discrediting to all the scientists who are trying to...err, what's the word? Oh, I don't know, but it just sucks....

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BlueRoamer
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posted January 18, 2007 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dulce~ Of course Al Gore has a political agenda. He's a politician. It's no different from Bush using terrorism to further his political agenda.

Politicians do these things.

Terrorism and global warming are both realities.


Jwhop, once again, you prove yourself to be a complete idiot. Must you force me to show you why you should just shut your cakehole when the issue of science is involved?

So, which is the most potent greenhouse gas, CO2 or Methane? Hint...it's Methane which is 30 times more potent as a greenhouse gas.

----Methane is also a potent greenhouse gas produced by human activities. You basically make a point towards humans causing global warming with that one.

What is the most potent of all for absorbing and trapping heat? Hint...it's water vapor from evaporation of the oceans, seas, lakes and rivers..and water vapor is also found in much higher concentrations in the atmosphere.

---Water vapor levels are not affected by humans. They can be raised, however, through increased CO2 in the atmosphere, raising the global temperature and causing more evaporation of the ocean.

What causes more evaporation? Hint, ocean warming from increased radiation from the sun..and underwater vents and volcanic activity underwater.

--Increased radiation from the sun and volcanic activity are minor fluctations when compared with the effects of human made greenhouse gases.

Does CO2 cause warming or does warming cause CO2 levels to rise? Hint...during previous ice ages CO2 levels were much higher than they are now...at times, thousands of times higher...during an ice age.

---CO2 involves a complex feedback system. Once the cycle starts it tends to snowball. CO2 levels being high are always associated with higher temperatures because higher temperatures raise CO2 levels. We KNOW that we as humans are adding tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year, so it follows that we are contributing to warming.

Where is the overwhelming majority of CO2 stored in it's free state? Hint...in the worlds oceans..especially in the colder water of the oceans.

---What does that have to do with anything? It's only atmospheric CO2 that makes a difference, and the burning of fossil fuels puts CO2 directly into the atmosphere, not into the water. Your point is irrelevant.

The ice caps at the poles are said to be melting. Has that ever happened before? Hint...yes, numerous times in the past history of earth, there were no ice caps at all.

--The earth of course undergoes natural warming and cooling trends, all systems have fluctuations along different variables. It i possible that we are currently in a natural warming trend, but based on evidence, CO2 definitely contributes to it.


Regardless of global warming, human lungs want to breathe O2, not CO2. Putting more CO2 in the environment does not increase O2 levels by the same rate. Plants can become saturated and cannot produce any more O2 at a certain point.

Pollution stinks. It makes our air dirty, and it contributes to our incredibly high cancer rates. CO2 is not the only pollutant, there are many other kinds of toxins we put in the air and water.

This isn't an issue of the earth's well being either. It's a quality of life issue for us humans. Unfortunately, foresight is something that right wing fascists just don't seem to possess. Fortunately, most of the world isn't so demented.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted January 19, 2007 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To all the dwebs, dorks, hand wringers, pants wetters, shriekers and hysterical lunatics of the Marxist set who insist on shutting down the US economy and adopting the Kyoto Treaty....NO SALE.

Your cause is phony, your motives are clear as glass and your scientists are lying crackpot practitioners of junk science.

That's just for openers. What that says about you...I'll leave that for rational people to decide for themselves.

When the non-thinkers of the Marxist set can tell me what those stone age people were doing 25,000 years ago to warm the earth and end the last ice age, when those non-thinkers can tell me what citizens of the world were doing about 1000AD to make the earth suddenly begin to warm again, when those non-thinkers can tell me what citizens of the world were doing about 1400AD to make the earth cool and bring on the Little Ice Age which lasted almost to the start of the 20th Century, when those non-thinkers can tell me why every other planet in our solar system is undergoing a WARMING cycle without the presence of a single human...then, and only then will I be prepared to listen to a word they have to say on the subject...maybe!

Free Republic
There Is NO Man-Made Global Warming
CNSNews ^ | 12/02/04 | Tom DeWeese

There is no scientific evidence to back claims of man-made global warming. Period.

Anyone who tells you that scientific research shows warming trends -- be they teachers, newscasters, congressmen, senators, vice presidents or presidents -- is wrong.

In fact, scientific research through U.S. government satellite and balloon measurements shows that the temperature is actually cooling -- very slightly -- 0.037 degrees Celsius.

A little research into modern-day temperature trends bears this out. For example, in 1936, the Midwest of the United States experienced 49 consecutive days of temperatures over 90 degrees. There were another 49 consecutive days in 1955. But in 1992, there was only one day over 90 degrees and, in 1997, only five days.

Because of modern science and improved equipment, this "cooling" trend has been most accurately documented over the past 18 years. Ironically, that's the same period of time the hysteria has grown over dire warnings of "warming."

Changes in global temperatures are natural. In fact, much of the recent severe weather has been directly attributed to a natural phenomenon that occurs every so often called El Nino. It causes ocean temperatures to rise as tropical trade winds actually reverse for a time.

The resulting temperature changes cause severe storms, flooding and even drought on every continent on earth. It's completely natural. El Nino has been wreaking its havoc across the globe since long before man appeared.

How about the reports that the polar ice cap is melting? On Election Day, the Financial Times of London carried the hysterical headline: "Arctic Ice Cap Set to Disappear by the Year 2070."

The article stated that the Arctic ice cap is melting at an unprecedented rate. The article is based on a report titled "Impacts of a Warming Arctic," submitted by a group of researchers called the Arctic Climate Impact Assessement (ACIA).

It must be understood just who makes up this so-called group of researchers. The report is not unbiased scientific data. Rather, it is propaganda from political groups that have an agenda.

The report was commissioned by the Arctic Council, which is comprised of a consortium of radical envionmentalists from Canada, Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Norway, Russia, Sweden and the United States. All are nations that possess land within the Arctic Circle.

Many of these countries, through the Kyoto Protocol, have a financial stake in pushing the global warming agenda. One of the groups providing "scientists" to the ACIA "researchers" is the World Wildlife Fund, one of the leading chicken-little scaremongers that create junk science at the drop of a news release to terrify us all into proper environmental conduct.

The report is now being used at the global warming meeting currently underway in Buenos Aires to rally the troops and bully the United States into accepting the discredited Kyoto Protocol.

We are being warned of killer heat waves, vast flooding and the spread of tropical diseases. Ocean levels are rising, and America's coastlines are doomed, they tell us. Hurricanes and tornadoes have already become more violent, we're warned. Floods and droughts have begun to ravage the nation, they cry.

Any change in temperatures, an excessive storm or extended flooding is looked upon as a sure sign that environmental armageddon is upon us. Diabolical environmentalists are using the natural El Nino phenomenon to whip people into a global warming hysteria.

Two kinds of scientists

We are assured by such groups that scientists everywhere are sounding these warnings and that we may only have one chance to stop it. Well, as the debate rages, we find that there are really two kinds of scientists.

There are those who look at facts and make their judgments based on what they see and know. Their findings can be matched by any other scientist, using the same data and set of circumstances to reach the same conclusions. It's a age-old practice called "peer review." It's the only true science.

And then, there are those who yearn for a certain outcome and set about creating the needed data to make it so. Usually, you will find this group of scientists greatly dependent on grants supplied by those with a specific political agenda who demand desired outcomes for their money.

Let's just take NASA, for example -- the most trusted name in American science. A lot of NASA scientists have fallen into the money trap. Environmental science has become the life-blood of the space program as the nation has lost interest in space travel. To keep the bucks coming, NASA has justified launches through the excuse of earth-directed environmental research. And the budgets keep coming.

At the same time, many of NASA's scientists have a political agenda in great harmony with those who advocate global warming. And they're not above using their position to aid that agenda whenever the chance is available.

This was never more clearly demonstrated than in 1992, when a team of three NASA scientists was monitoring conditions over North America to determine if the ozone layer was in danger. Inconclusive data indicated that conditions might be right for ozone damage over North America -- if certain things happened.

True scientists are a careful lot. They study, they wait, and many times, they test again before drawing conclusions. Not so the green zealot.

Of this three-member NASA team, two could not be sure of what they had found and wanted to do more research. But one took the data and rushed to the microphones with all of the drama of a Hollywood movie and announced in hushed tones that NASA had discovered an ozone hole over North America.

Then Sen. Al Gore rushed to the floor of the Senate with the news and drove a stampede to immediately ban freon -- five years before Congress had intended -- and without a suitable substitute. He then bullied President George H.W. Bush to sign the legislation by saying the ozone hole was over Kennebunkport, Maine, Bush's favorite vacation spot.

Two months later, NASA announced -- on the back pages of the newspapers -- that further research had shown there was no such damage. But it was too late. The valuable comodity known as freon was gone forever.

Flawed computer models

Then there are those computer models. Night after night, Americans watch the local news as the weatherman predicts what kind of a day tomorrow will be. These meteorologists, using the most up-to-date equipment available, boldly give you the five-day forecast.

But it's well known that even with all of their research and expensive equipment, it really is just a "best guess." There are just too many variables. If the wind picks up here, it could blow in a storm. If the temperature drops there, it could start to snow. The earth is a vast and wondrous place. Weather does what it wants.

Yet those who are promoting the global warming theory have the audacity to tell you they can forecast changes in the global climate decades into the future.

The truth is that computer models are able to include only two out of 14 components that make up the climate system. To include the third component would take a computer a thousand times faster than what we have now.

To go beyond the third component requires an increase in computer power that is so large, only mathematicians can comprehend the numbers. Moreover, even if the computer power existed, scientists do not understand all the factors and the relationships between them that determine the global climate.

So it's an outrage for the World Wildlife Fund or the Sierra Club to tell you that man-made global warming is a fact and that we Americans must now suffer dire changes in our lifestyle to stop it.

Scientists are not on the global warming bandwagon

And so, too, is it an outrage for the news media to tell you that most true scientists now agree that man-made global warming is a fact.

What it doesn't tell you is that roughly 500 scientists from around the world signed the Heidleburg Appeal in 1992, just prior to the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro, expressing their doubts and begging the delegates not to bind the world to any dire treaties based on global warming.

Today, that figure has grown to more than 4,000 scientists. Americans aren't being told that a 1997 Gallop Poll of prominent North American climatologists showed that 83 percent of them disagreed with the man-made global warming theory.

And the deceit knows no bounds. The United Nations released a report at the end of 1996 saying global warming was a fact, yet before releasing the report, two key paragraphs were deleted from the final draft. Those two paragraphs, written by the scientists who did the actual scientific analysis, said:

1. "[N]one of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases."

2. "[N]o study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to ... man-made causes."

Obviously, those two paragraphs aren't consistent with the political agenda the U.N. is pushing. So, science be damned. Global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the people of the world -- bar none.

The Kyoto Climate Control Protocol

Those who have been fighting against the radical green agenda have been warning that modern-day environmentalism has little to do with protecting the environment. Rather, it is a political movement led by those who seek to control the world economies, dictate development and redistribute the world's wealth.

They use the philosophical base of Karl Marx, the tactics of the KGB and the rhetoric of the Sierra Club. The American people have been assaulted from all directions by rabid environmentalists.

School children have been told that recycling is a matter of life and death. Businesses have been shut down. Valuable products like freon have been removed from the market. Chemicals and pesticides that helped to make this nation the safest and healthiest in the world are targeted for extinction. Our entire nation is being restructured to fit the proper green mold, all of it for a lie about something man has nothing to do with.

But the lie has grown to massive proportions -- and the game is about to get very serious indeed. Pressure is building again to impose the Kyoto Protocol worldwide.

Only a few years ago, this treaty appeared dead when President George W. Bush refused American participation. Now, however, Russia has signed on, and the U.N. has enough support to begin implementing its dire consequences -- even on the United States.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has called the White House stance on global warming "terribly disappointing." McCain is now using the ACIA report to convene hearings on the "human effect on climate and what to do about it." McCain intends to help build pressure on the president to accept the Kyoto Protocol.

In fact, the Kyoto Protocol is a legally binding international treaty through which industrial nations agree to cut back their energy emissions to 7 percent below 1990 levels. This means that all of the energy growth since 1990 would be rolled back, plus 7 percent more. Such a massive disruption in the American economy, particularly since it has nothing to do with protecting the environment, would devastate this nation.***Note, which is exactly the intended purpose of the Kyoto Treaty

To meet such drastically reduced energy standards would -- in the short run -- cost the United States more than one million jobs. Some estimate it would cost more than seven million jobs in 14 years. If the treaty sends the economy into a tailspin, as many predict, it would cost even more jobs.

It would cost the average family $1,000 to $4,000 per year in increased energy costs. The cost of food would skyrocket. It has been estimated that in order for the United States to meet such a goal, our gross domestic product would be reduced by $200 billion -- annually.

To force down energy use, the Federal government would have to enforce a massive energy tax that would drive up the cost of heating your home by as much as 30 to 40 percent. In all likelihood, there would be a tax on gasoline -- as high as 60 cents per gallon.

There would be consumption taxes and carbon taxes. The Department of Energy has estimated that electricity prices could rise 86 percent -- and gasoline prices 53 percent.

The purpose of these punitive costs is to drive up the cost of modern living in order to force you to drastically change your lifestyle. That is the diabolical plan behind this restructuring scheme. Cars banned. Industry curtailed. Housing smaller. Family size controlled.

Every single product that is produced with the use of energy would increase in price. This includes items such as aspirin, contact lenses and toothpaste.

A study by the Department of Energy's Argonne Laboratory finds that the treaty would cripple U.S. industries, including paper, steel, petroleum refining, chemical manufacturing, aluminum and cement. That about sums up the economy.

Global raid on American wealth

But perhaps you still are not convinced. Maybe you still cling to the idea that such drastic action is necessary -- that those pushing the global warming agenda are truly in a panic over global warming and are just trying to find a solution.

If you are one of these people, ask yourself: Why does the Kyoto Protocol only bind developed nations to draconian emission levels?

Undeveloped Third World nations would be free to produce whatever they want. These would include China, India, Brazil and Mexico. Yet 82 percent of the projected emissions growth in future years would come from these countries.

Now ask yourself: If the Kyoto Climate Change Protocol is all about protecting the environment, then how come it doesn't cover everybody?

The truth, of course, is that the treaty is really about redistribution of the wealth. The wealth of the United States is, and has always been, the target. The new scheme to grab the loot is through environmental scare tactics.

And international corporations that owe allegiance to no nation would bolt America and move their factories lock, stock and computer chip to those Third World countries, where they would be free to carry on production.

But that means the same emissions would be coming out of the jungles of South America instead of Chicago. So where is the protection of the environment? You see, it's not about that, is it?

Still not convinced? One more thing. Hidden in the small print of the treaty is a provision that calls for the "harmonizing of patent laws." Now, robbing a nation of its patent protection is an interesting tactic for protecting the environment, don't you think?

And still more looting of the U.S. treasury is planned. Supporters of the Kyoto Protocol also want industrialized nations to subsidize poor countries' adaption to global warming to the tune of $73 billion per year. Obtaining such subsidies would be an interesting trick after the U.S. economy had been destroyed by the treaty. Looters rarely have the ability to think that far in advance.

Don't think this devastation can't happen. The U.N. and the European Union have exposed their hatred for the United States. They envy our wealth and think that legalized theft, rather than sound economic policy, is the way to obtain it.

The fact is that one person now stands between the global warming jackals and economic sanity: George W. Bush. Will he stand firm in his opposition to the Kyoto Protocol? Or will he capitulate to massive international pressure and sell America's soul?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1292900/posts

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 20, 2007 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Personally I just like watching Jwhop waffle over the idea over and over again. Half the time he's trying to deny the climate change, and the other half he's trying to justify the climate change as being ok.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 20, 2007 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely right AG. He really has no argument, he knows nothing about science, and he waffles back and forth like John Kerry on a windy day.


Jwhop, your response was absolutely pathetic.

I honestly expected better from you.

I refuted all your points, and you come back with a bunch of name calling, and then a biased article from a right-wing news source.

At least put in a little effort old man.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 20, 2007 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually BlueRoamer, the pathetic ones are those who cannot defend their own positions...like you, for instance.

Now for those who have no knowledge of the subject except for what you've read or heard in the hysterical man made global warming news media or in this discussion of the subject, we now have a new allegation. I'm either denying the earth is warming or in the alternative, arguing that warming is a good thing.

To the first, the earth is in a current warming trend...just like past warming trends. That which is absolutely dismissed is that man made CO2 emissions are the cause of the current warming. CO2 is the least effective of the greenhouse gasses but it just happens to coincide with the cause of leftists to shut America down, manufacturing, transportation systems and electric power generation. So, CO2 was chosen and man made global warming was chosen as the vehicle to accomplish what leftists have otherwise been unable to do.

It is an undeniable fact that civilizations flourish during periods of warm climatic conditions AND also an undeniable fact civilizations decline during periods of glaciation or cooling.

The sun is currently at a 300 year high peak of solar radiation output..which is warming all the planets in the solar system...not just earth.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
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posted January 20, 2007 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually unlike you, my evidence comes directly from Harvard professors, not from right wing propoganda rags.

See Jwhop, intellectual elitism is something you just can't take part in. Why? Because you're average, and you're stupid.

Show me some evidence that the temperatures of all the planets are heating at the same rate as the earth? I think you'll find it hard pressed to find evidence for that claim.

You sound like a conspiricay theorist. This isn't about shutting down the American economy, it's about your paranoia and loss of touch with reality. I think you would have been much happier during the McCarthy era. It's too bad they haven't invented time machines yet, because I for one wouldn't mind sending you and your fascist buddies back there.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 20, 2007 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Show you evidence the other planets are heating at the same "rate" as Earth Blue?

You're kidding...right?

Different distances from the heat source..the sun Blue.

Different axial tilts Blue.

Different atmospheric compositions Blue.

Of course the "rate" of heating would vary widely.

But, the one constant is that they all are heating...caused by increased radiation output of the sun....now at a 300 year high peak.

So Blue, on your side you have crackpot scientists attempting to rip off funding for their junk science.

You also have the advantage of having Algore, the man so incompetent that even when he engaged in massive voter fraud in Florida and attempted to cheat his way to the presidency..he still lost.

Algore, who was forced to drop out of law school.

Algore who flunked out of divinity school. Tell me Blue, is that a feat..or what. If you can fog a mirror with your breath, you can graduate from divinity school.

Algore, who burned more than 100,000 pounds of jet fuel...on his way to a meeting of Kyoto participants...the purpose of which was to cut back on carbon based fuels and therefore reduce CO2 emissions.

Algore, who lectures us all to reduce our carbon footprint..but ignores his own lectures and flies all over the world on private jets...to lecture the rest of us.

Painful truths, eh Blue?

Don't worry about the crackpot theory of man made global warming Blue...or anyone else. Worry instead about the coming ice age and the billions of people who are going to die from starvation, from the cold, from the glaciation of the planet, from shortened growing seasons, from wars over territory..in the more temperate zones.

We are nearing or are at the end of a cyclical warm period. Earth is not a very hospitable place in periods of global cooling...and those last a long, long, long time.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 21, 2007 04:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Painful truths, eh Blue?

More like ridiculous lies from an aging and bitter person.

I'm supposed to take your word for it that all the planets are warming?

I want to see charts and graphs of planets' temperatures.

What are they even gaguing this against? How long have we even been able to measure the temperatures of other planets?

The global temperature is warming at about the rate of your growing stupidity. Judging by your latest round of postings, I'd say that's pretty frightening.

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