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Author
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Topic: Slavery, Murder, Rape & Torture: Caste System of India
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lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 09:36 PM
 
Hi Jwhop! It's simple to me, I said what I had to say simply...
yet no One ackowledged what I said...LOL
I am not surprised!LOve to ALL  IP: Logged |
alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 09:44 PM
Dioscuri- yes, prejudice is prejudice regardless of where it is directed. I don't think anybody would argue that this is not the case. What is the point you want to make, though?
Lotus- I for one did not get your point at all... maybe it is because of the way you word things. Sorry, but I find it too vague. Could you please clarify, because I would like to hear your point of view
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lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 09:59 PM
how can I clarify something written so simply...200,000,000 are discarded, considered sub-human..yet 4 different gruops of
caste systems...
ignore and allow this treatment of their
sisters and brothers.... We are all GOD's children, all equal, all with
the same oppurtunities, til Man thinks he is GOD
and says differently.... give me a break... how can this be right? IP: Logged |
alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:20 PM
So... you are against the caste system (as is, I think, everyone else on here). Is that all, or is there something else? (don't take this to be in an argumentative tone, because that is not how I am asking it.) * edited to add * I ask because if that is all you were stating, there is really nothing for anyone to acknowledge. You stated you were against the caste system, everybody else is also against the caste system. How does one comment on that when they have already stated that they also do not condone that system. However, if you were trying to state something else, then being more direct would be very helpful. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:24 PM
Yes, that is correct, I am not for the system..that would create...
a discarded group...also, I think it is up to the 4 caste systems
to correct this injustice. ... allowing this to be, and happen, is sub-human... that is what I think
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alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:32 PM
Ok...
I doubt any of the 'castes' are 'discarded' (although I am not too sure what you mean by that).
The people of the subcontinent are working on improving conditions, so they can hardly be refered to as acting sub human. In fact, as Cancerrg so eloquently put it in his posts, the mere fact that so many leaders in the country are, in fact, of supposedly lower castes is indication enough that the Indian people are slowly but surely breaking the hold of the caste system. Good job Lotus, you portrayed your opinion well. I acknowlege it. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:38 PM
I'm not sure you understand that 200,000,000
are discarded...raped, tortured and killed. ... the 4 caste systems cannot acknowledge I believe..for that would go against the caste system, Am I wrong? so, as long as they are trying, then that is better than, then not trying at all... So the question to Cancerg, would Be... Do you have any friends, of this discarded group? Is that allowed? IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Newflake Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 26, 2007 10:46 PM
Lotus, how the hell can one get through to you that there has already been significant progress made and the fact that Rg has already pointed out that there are leaders of the so-called "discarded" class is a sign that the people are slowly but surely leaving the caste system behind. Go re-read his post, he even said that he has friends from lower castes. What I ( and probably he) want to get through is that its slowly, but again surely, becoming much more like the class systems of other countries (people are starting to be able to move up in life).IP: Logged |
alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:50 PM
I don't think you have a clear idea of the actual issue as it exists today, Lotus. You seem to have some misconceptions...
Think of it like the US history of slavery. Slavery is illegal today. Discrimination against african americans or any other minority group is illegal today. Yet, people continue to discriminate. Just as the US has affirmative action, India has 'quotas' for minorities and lower classes to help promote their advancement in society. Yet, just as there are caucasian families here that could not ever think of marrying or associating with african americans or any other minority group, there are people in India who would not want to associate with so called lower classes. And this goes both ways (some people would not want to associate with others from ostensibly higher classes). Prejudice is an ugly thing, but it does not exist solely in one society or another. It is prevalent everywhere. These barriers in India are breaking down very quickly- in fact, much faster than the historical racial barriers in the US. There is nothing, no association between people, that is not allowed... acknowledgment of archaic practices is what is moving the people of India forward. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 10:56 PM
Thank you for taking the time, both of you,
to explain that to me, I appreciate it, and I understand better. ...IP: Logged |
alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 26, 2007 11:01 PM
ok...
you are welcome.... IP: Logged |
BornUnderDioscuri
Moderator Posts: 49
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 01:22 AM
quote:
Ok, and I apologize but I clarified that I meant I am sick of the Westerners that do ride on their white horses pointing their fingers at the rest of us and making stereotypical judgements....it does happen and its sooooo annoying to me. This thread is a perfect example.
OKay fair enough Dulce, appology accepted I know what you mean now. Its just that I hate to be grouped into anything for that matter and I dont always follow what people think me to follow. "Again, that is one person that you cannot say represents the WHOLE of India." Of course not, just RG said he never met one so I said i actually have. Never said my friend represents anyone LOLOL sorrrryy Dulce, first house moon, 8th house venus. Dominant signs Scorpio and Cancer lol. Alchemist - my point is though people overlook it so much and yet it also takes a toll. IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 06:08 AM
quote:
quote:
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Get back to me when you in India turn the corner and join the civilized world.
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What??? Are there some bigots finally coming out of the closet now?
Rg, aren't you sick of certain people (*cough* white westerners)
Not trying to start a fight, DulceLuna. That's just one of the funniest things I've read around here in a long time. 
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"You are not here to try to get the world to be just as you want it to be. You are here to create the world around you that you choose while you allow the world as others choose it to be to exist also." - Esther Hicks IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Newflake Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 07:23 AM
^^^Hey, laugh all you want but its true...there are some people out there (and here) that make me wanna barf with there stereotypes and baseless assumptions...and this thread is a perfect example.  IP: Logged |
cancerrg
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 11:46 AM
my problem is , where do i start from ? so i would rather ask a question ,' how many of you really understand even a bit of the caste system , its origin or the way it operates or even its present day status in the society ? ' i think dulce and alchemist undestand it a bit . (btw, al how do you know and understnd the quota system , i believe affirmative action is more promminent in the west ) IP: Logged |
cancerrg
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 11:56 AM
:::Yes the Caste system has been tied to economics but it is also integrated in religion. :::you better check out your facts .
Hinduism is the only religion which doesn't have written code of conduct . caste system has its origin from the writtings of 'SAINT MANU' compiled in MANU-SMIRTI . its not a religious text .
it was wriiten with view to effectively run the society but ofcourse his thoughts over the centuries got contorted by vested interests .
now what you see and understand is this contorted figure . let me give you a very simple example , there is caste in northern india named as 'BHUMIHAR' that literally means(bhumi-land , har -capture )land capturer .
the caste has its origin not from manusmirti but english rule . unbeliveable huh..... but thats the bitter sweet fact that some of my country men dont want to admit .
to make you understand the how and why of this birth of caste by english , i'll need a quite a bit of time , so save it for some other time . ok.
and mind you , i shall be coming back to your posts .
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cancerrg
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 12:00 PM
:::Not trying to start a fight, DulceLuna. That's just one of the funniest things I've read around here in a long time.
:::
Not trying to start fight either but i dont find it funny .
if you really do , you must have been absent from the forum from a long time .
you shouldn't really do that being a moderator . we all need your guidance at times so keep reading posts , you will find a lot more funny posts . IP: Logged |
cancerrg
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 12:40 PM
:::The way I see it is it (from what i learned in World Religions/World Civ...I've never really asked my friend about this) that the Caste system is really no different from the economic system of ANY country.
:::
No , you are pretty much right !
infact, its origin is from the same thinking . see , how manu categorised the society .
he divided it into main four parts i.e,
1.the priest
2.the warrior
3.the businessman
4.the others for the menial jobs (which ofcourse later on became the untouchables ) so the classification was basically done to run the society in an effective fulfilling all its needs . remember , hinduism has its origin in nature worship and over the centuries it has assimilated different cultuers within itself be it aryans (not the original inhabitants , originals-the dravidians were pushed to the southern parts , so may be moon666 is the original inhabitant while i may not be cos my family has its origin in north only mainly from area bordering present day afgahnistan )mongols or muslims . bcos of the prosperity and fertile land and also cos the civil society was already devloped quite well being it the oldest , all the invaders who came here settled in here .
so hinduism never had anything original . it was more of assilating pot of different cultures .
thats the reason , hinduism rather than being a mere religion , is more of a way of life . so coming back to the topic , i dont know if manu wanted it this way but it has come to be this . its like blaming the misdeeds of certain muslims on the teaching of holy koran .
illogical but thats the way it is . butofcourse , i must blame the hindus too be it me or others if the things have come to this , we are responsible too. :::Even if certain people's attitudes change (which they should) there will still be class differences....that's not gonna change and that's what some people need to understand. (Now correct me if I'm wrong, Rg)
::: i too think so.
class distinction never go out of fashion , do they .
its just that we have a more pronounced one ! and well things are changing . but to change a system of thousand yrs , you need time and you also need time to fight back the propagandas and ah , i just got reminded , portugal was the last one to free an indian territory .
the territory was 'GOA ' 
good that they left it for us . i might go there this yr .
::: Its stupid that the actions of a few bad apples are once again being brought against a whole people.
::: i wouldn't be lying . its not an action of just a few .
::::To me, it's the pinnacle of uncivilized behavior and wouldn't be tolerated in the United States for 10 seconds.
:::: and if the world had it way , people like would never have been tolerated for even a single second .
but see , our tolerance !!!!! IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Newflake Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 12:46 PM
quote:
the caste has its origin not from manusmirti but english rule . unbeliveable huh..... but thats the bitter sweet fact that some of my country men dont want to admit .
I heard that once too....and I think from another Knowflake. I'm really not suprised either....colonialism sucks. 
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lotusheartone
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 12:48 PM
cancerrg, thanks for further explaining, it has helped me alot, to understand!IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Newflake Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 12:51 PM
Thanks for clearing that whole thing up for me Rg!
quote:
and ah , i just got reminded , portugal was the last one to free an indian territory .
the territory was 'GOA '
good that they left it for us . i might go there this yr .
Yeah, I was trying to think of the name of that place. There are Indians in my country originally from that area who are fluent in Portguese....better than I am.  IP: Logged |
BornUnderDioscuri
Moderator Posts: 49
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted February 27, 2007 07:19 PM
quote:
you better check out your facts .
Hinduism is the only religion which doesn't have written code of conduct .
I said nothing about a code of conduct... IP: Logged |
alchemiest
unregistered
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posted February 27, 2007 11:16 PM
I think cancerrg's point (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, cancerrg) is that you will not find the caste system anywhere in the written tenets of hinduism itself- it began as more of a social structure than anything else, but warped into a very ugly form with time and external influences.Hey Cancerrg- I'm indian, and I've heard my dad mention the quota system once or twice. I also know about the quota system because I was very close to applying to IIT (mumbai)for undergrad, except it was so much more expensive than university here (I think tuition for international students at IIT was $10,000 a year or something). So yeah, that was when I learnt a little bit about the quota system. IP: Logged |
Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 28, 2007 06:47 AM
DulceLuna quote:
^^^Hey, laugh all you want but its true...there are some people out there (and here) that make me wanna barf with there stereotypes and baseless assumptions...and this thread is a perfect example.
cancerrg
quote:
Not trying to start fight either but i dont find it funny .
if you really do , you must have been absent from the forum from a long time .
you shouldn't really do that being a moderator . we all need your guidance at times so keep reading posts , you will find a lot more funny posts .
I don't think either of you understood what I found so humorous in the words I quoted. It was the fact that DulceLuna was suggesting someone else was bigoted but then immediately referred to a racial/cultural group as "some people" and "white westerners".  If you still don't see my point then just forget it.
cancerrg
If you don't find it funny it's really none of my concern.
Actually, I haven't been absent from this forum for a long time. I was away for a while and did much catching up when I was able to return.
However, what does my being a moderator have to do with anything in GU? As it is, I'm a moderator on the Lexigram forum.
Whether someone needs someones guidance is often overshadowed by whether or not they want it, wouldn't you agree? Thankfully, I'm not big on guiding others. Just feeling free to speak my mind, no matter the outcome.
I do think you're right, though. I'm sure there will be many posts around here that will have me laughing out loud, as usual.
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"You are not here to try to get the world to be just as you want it to be. You are here to create the world around you that you choose while you allow the world as others choose it to be to exist also." - Esther Hicks IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Newflake Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 28, 2007 09:24 AM
I'm racist now because I spoke the truth....fantastic. Its something that happens and this thread is a perfect example.IP: Logged | |
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