posted March 02, 2007 09:29 AM            

quote:

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Don't assume whats in my dictionary...i come from Ukraine and lived in the Soviet Union. Russian journalists are kidnapped all the time by Chechnyan terrorists and there are many such attacks. Plus I watched Israeli news since I was 3...so believe me im more familiar with that word than u think

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Ummm too bad for you...he collectively meant the U.S. And I have to agree with him to, it wasn't terrorism when it was happening in the Thirs World. Now it has been considered a "world problem" since its happened to the U.S.

posted March 03, 2007 11:53 AM              

I am asking sincerely
please do not twist my intentions...

:::

I am sure , no one will !
but are you sure you are reading all the posts ?
i said it twice giving my example .
plz plz reread !

::::Basically, alot of the time...employers will hire you based on your ethnic background. If you're an Ngoni, tough luck if you want something in agriculture...get a herding job. Its a milder example but very similar to the Indians now. ::::

ACTUALLY !

thats the way it could have its origin in the ancient times .

::::A bunch of stuck up power hungry b***** decided to get together and try to impose their superiority complex on others. And don't think I mean the U.S. either. Don't bother telling me that those poor "freedom fighters" aren't in it for power, fame and recognition.

::::

Believe me BUD ! thats brilliant and whats not is "why you all can't accept a simple mistake "

you know , we made the same mistake in Sri Lanka , accepted it , never to return to it or anywhere .

posted March 03, 2007 11:58 AM              

same goes with your rerain to' my issues with jwhop' , so for record i dont have any issues with him or anyone .
he was answered back in the manner he ould understnd .thats all !

posted March 03, 2007 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Ummm too bad for you...he collectively meant the U.S.

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Which is precisly why I say people need to be more specific about what they mean. You may have enterpreted "you" as U.S. but I did not.

quote:

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i have been seeing all kind of defences and i am still waiting for a single country men of yours to have the guts to accept that all the world accpets .

---

Why wait? There are plenty who do, it just seems people are too caught up in their own issues and overlook whats in front of them.

posted March 04, 2007 06:48 AM              

::::

You should have !
reason being , we do nat have anything personal in here , we are talking of our countries and their systems (good or bad ) .

so all this has and should never have any personal meanings .

posted March 04, 2007 09:27 AM            

quote:

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So if its so on the front , why not put it into simple words and say 'YES WE MADE A MISTAKE ' rather than beating around(hiding behind) the BUSH

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posted March 05, 2007 12:33 AM              

Yes Rg u r correct.

posted March 05, 2007 10:54 AM              

but nothing between you and me ! right !
nothing personal !

at the same time , i can understand your skipping/silence on the question .

i wont bother you with it again !
you know what , its actually a difficult situation to be in .
these things get happened cos of power politics but ofcourse in the grab of ethics .

so its real difficult to justify , once the ethical curtains are up .

no issues !

p.s. i hope , i wasn't harsh on you .
and thank you for being what you are . a nice person !
you know , the last time that i raised these questions , i got the choicest of abuses from the same people who time to time keep us reminding of ethics !

double standards !
thats the root of all problems ! everywhere !
among people , among cultures , among countries!

yeah , and thank you all !
better move on to something else now !

posted March 05, 2007 11:32 AM            

quote:

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So if its so on the front , why not put it into simple words and say 'YES WE MADE A MISTAKE ' rather than beating around(hiding behind) the BUSH....cancerrg

---

"Only" 1 (one) mistake cancerrg? And what would that be? Please be specific.

So cancerrg, are you attempting to suggest the lead article of this thread has misrepresented what is still happening widely in India? Is National Geographic simply lying about conditions for the so called "Untouchables" in India? Are they not subject to the most extreme forms of repression, oppression, murder, torture, rape and slavery? Is the rigid caste system "NOT" alive and well in India?

posted March 05, 2007 09:08 PM            

quote:

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but nothing between you and me ! right !
nothing personal !

---

Of course not

quote:

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at the same time , i can understand your skipping/silence on the question .

---

Im sorry Im confused which question?

quote:

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p.s. i hope , i wasn't harsh on you .
and thank you for being what you are . a nice person !

---

Hey no problem, we all get carried away sometimes. Sorry if I was too harsh i get a little passionate sometimes. LOL Scorpio moon comes with the territory

posted March 07, 2007 10:37 AM            

My further point is directed at those anti-American forces who are in the forefront of criticism of America. That point is to clean up the messes in their own nations first before branching out into areas which are none of their business.

To the degree those individuals wish to bash the United States, I will return the favor, in spades. The difference will be that I won't have to lie or exaggerate.

posted March 09, 2007 07:10 AM              

Getting a bit tired of - if it's new blame the yanks, if it's old blame the limeys argument myself.

edited to add: cancerrg, I know you weren't blaming the whole caste system on Britain, just for the record my friend, in case I'm misunderstood. Should have said that first time.

Defending your country is fine and to be expected, but only if you can adopt the same viewpoint EXACTLY from another country's position.

Otherwise, any argument will be using a totally different set of logic and unfair to say the least.

In a way you are insulting your own nations and cultures by giving the impression you can't determine anything for yourselves or can take responibility for the things you initiate or own.

I have more respect for Indian people than that, and others of course, as I have many Asian friends and they tell me much that is both right and wrong with their country/s.

Because of this position the points you make which ARE valid and fair, as many are, get lost in the mix.

posted March 09, 2007 10:27 AM              

Who the h e double hockey sticks are you referring to?

posted March 10, 2007 02:29 PM              

Please do not talk what you are not really aware of! And the media created hype for the selfish motives of those in power to eat all the western fund that comes in in the name of aid.

sign out! I know this would be a flamers paradise, but before you start such discussions, try to get a first hand knowledge.

posted March 10, 2007 03:39 PM            

I would certainly think so; since most here just looove the United Nations.

Oh, and these writers, Gopal Guru and Shiraz Sidhva would...at first blush...seem to have Indian names. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Let me repeat, this review of other nations and their cultural, religious, political and legal practices only came up because of the propensity of some to bash the United States and by extension, citizens of the United States...since we vote for those who represent us.

That could end today and those who are involved in bashing the Unites States know how to end it. As for me, I see targets of opportunity all over the earth.

Swerve has limited his comments about Britain bashing to "Getting a bit tired of - if it's new blame the yanks, if it's old blame the limeys argument myself."

But then, Swerve is a lot nicer guy than I am.

India's "hidden apartheid" - caste system
UNESCO Courier, Sept, 2001 by Gopal Guru, Shiraz Sidhva

For centuries, the untouchables of Paliyad, a nondescript village in western India's Ahmedabad district, have known their place. Many of them are manual scavengers, cleaning the toilets of upper-caste villagers or toiling the land, sometimes for less than a handful of rice a day.

"We've known that we must stay away from them [upper-caste people] since the day we were born," says Rajesh, who is going on 19. "At the tea stalls, we have separate cups to drink from, chipped and caked with dirt, and we're expected to clean them ourselves. We have to walk for 15 minutes to carry water to our homes, because we're not allowed to use the taps in the village that the upper castes use. We're not allowed into temples, and when I attended school, my friends and I were forced to sit just outside the classroom.., the upper caste children would not allow us even to touch the football they played with... we played with stones instead."

More than 160 million people, a sixth of India's population, continue to bear the burden of a 2,000-year old caste system sanctioned by Hindu theology, which locks people into a rigid role by virtue of their birth.

Codes to suit the upper class

Though the term "untouchables" was abolished in 1950 under India's constitution, the "oppressed people" or Dalits as they are now referred to, continue to be discriminated against. They are denied access to land, forced to work in humiliating and degrading conditions and are routinely abused by the police and upper-caste groups, which enjoy the state's protection

Though India has sought to overcome the inequities of caste and discrimination through affirmative action--reserving quotas in education, government jobs and political bodies--these policies have benefited only a few. The highest office in the land, that of the largely ceremonial President, is today held by a Dalit, K. R. Narayanan. But all the horrors of India's caste system persist at the grassroots; attempts to defy this rigid social order invariably result in violence or economic retaliation.

Perhaps the world's longest surviving social hierarchy, India's caste system entails a complex ordering of social groups on the basis of ritual purity. Attributed to the law-giver Manu, the system was spelt out over 2,000 years ago in the Dharma Shastra, the cornerstone of the Hindu religion.

According to Manu, every individual is born into one of four principal varnas, or large categories, and must remain within that caste until death, although the particular ranking of that caste may vary among different regions in the country and over time. In order of precedence, the Brahmins are the priests and teachers, presiding over knowledge and education; the Kshatriyas are the rulers and soldiers; the Vaishyas, merchants and traders; and the Shudras, the peasants, labourers and artisans. The untouchables fall into a fifth category outside the varna system, and were often assigned tasks too "ritually polluting" to merit inclusion within the traditional varna system.

Clearly, caste discrimination was an ideological construct that was deployed by the upper castes to create and maintain their monopoly over cultural capital (knowledge and education), social capital (status and patriarchal domination), political capital (power), and material capital (wealth).

The codes were often pernicious, and rules were bent to suit the upper castes. In northern India, for example, untouchables were forced to use drums to announce their arrival, and even their shadows were thought to be polluting. In the south, some Brahmins stipulated that the lower castes would have to maintain a distance of 65 feet (22 metres) from them in order not to contaminate their betters.

Yet this caste-based discrimination also had a pragmatic dimension. The untouchables, excluded from the education and books of the Brahmins, were nevertheless allowed to develop their own stores of knowledge, in agriculture or midwifery for example. But there was a catch--this knowledge was only allowed because it benefited the upper castes.

A case of racism?

Caste is still frequently used as a cover for exploitative economic arrangements. Even today, most Dalits are not permitted to cross the invisible "pollution" line that divides their part of the village from that occupied by the higher castes. And yet a Dalit woman, whose very shadow is polluting, is allowed to massage the body of the upper-caste woman she serves. Upper caste men, meanwhile, think nothing of raping Dalit women or consorting with lower-caste prostitutes, even though touching them by accident in the street is a sacrilege.

posted March 11, 2007 03:03 AM              

Anyways I don't want to go deeper into this, since it doesn't serve any purpose.

God bless.

posted March 11, 2007 03:37 AM              

From my side, I live in India, and is @#%@# up by the political-religious system here. They are not making any of the common people enriched, but are treating us slaves. Let me not go into the details here, since that is not the subject of this thread.

I have nothing against you, or anyone who come across such information either. As I mentioned, we all have our selfish motives, and it is always better to see the other side of things before we end up with some conclusions.

The so-called atrocities are only those that is happening all over the world, it is not for India alone. Remember Columbine? Remember OJ episode? Those stand alone incidences doesn't show the overall character, do they? The same goes for India and these "atrocities" too. We are talking about 1.2 billion+ population, and massive conversion tactics. Are you aware of those? No, no one is, and no one cares. These lies are necessary to bring in the BIG western funds in the name of salvation, charity and almost all of it goes to the political pockets. Tarnishing the majority is the key for everyone here, and that majority may appear in various forms, financially, culturally, otherwise etc etc etc. Creating all these false egos to divide the people, so that the political leeches can suck on freely. Sorry, this is not about India alone, is the same for almost all the countries world-wide.

Sorry about my ramblings, hahahaha as usual, I stand for One World for us all, but I know I am just another fool. Atleast communities like LindaLand helps me to connect, and make me believe it is possible - someday!

Rock on and keep smiling everyone, I will keep my frustrations to myself! Afterall the forum name is Global Unity, so why have a discussion that can keep us divided.

posted December 19, 2007 03:25 AM              

"

India's Untouchables are relegated to the lowest jobs, and live in constant fear of being publicly humiliated, paraded naked, beaten, and raped with impunity by upper-caste Hindus seeking to keep them in their place. Merely walking through an upper-caste neighborhood is a life-threatening offense."

not where i live and see.not in any newspapers have i seen such news.
it was a reality about 20 years ago.
today they are as financial equals. no Dalit is refused education, or a job .
every dalit has every opportunity given to him/her by the Admininstrtion and Laws that any non Dalit has.

BTW, try reading a history lesson onthe colonisation of America.
how many American Indians were hacked like animals for foreigners ( Whites from England )to have a new land ?

and then how many Blacks were disposable robots for 200 years ?

basically substitute Dalit with Blacks.

"

Nearly 90 percent of all the poor Indians and 95 percent of all the illiterate Indians are Dalits, according to figures presented at the International Dalit Conference that took place May 16 to 18 in Vancouver, Canada.
"

like i said same is the plight of Hispanics and Blacks who comprise the economically lowest rungs , osctracised by mainstream white or upwardly well to do society.
ever seen a ghetto guy with money in a decent restaurant ?

the american mob is compriseed mainly of blacks who have been failed by UR government .
dont they have the same opportunities given to them ?
then why such disparities between blacks and whites?

actually try googling on poverty and illiteracy statistics for coloured Americans , uh u do consider them Americans ?

posted December 19, 2007 03:30 AM              

"

are u personal friends or even aquaintances with any Indian who is as disgusted at these atrocities?
those who commit these crimes are illiterate, and as smirked at by educated Indians as u

'
yes, still wanting to lecture the people of the United States.
"
are u the Minister of Public expression ?