posted May 05, 2007 03:53 PM            

You are welcome.
Thank you.

I agree, it is important to understand what it was that made you who you are, so that you can get beyond yourself. Look at the roots and look at sky. Know where you stand, and reach for the sun.

posted May 06, 2007 11:31 PM              

HSC ~ I wonder if we might continue our conversation here away from the hustle and bustle of the other thread? I feel this string might possess a certain grace the other lacks.

First, I wonder if you have futher explored the concept of Necessitarianism? It is a beautiful thought, yes? We acknowledge that all has its shadow, even the sublime, and I find that fatalism is the ugly side of this coin and too often indulged in by those with an incomplete understanding. Fatalism lacks responsibilty. Your thoughts?

But, my great faith in myself, and my feeling that I am deeply misunderstood and absurdly under-appreciated, is not a deluded attempt to overcompensate for a disappointing hand dealt to me. It is the natural result of being gifted with uncommon passion and truly rare insight into the nature of things, in a world which undervalues these gifts, and makes it nearly impossible for me to be true to myself and happy at the same time.

This interests me and begs a few questions.

What disappointment did life hand you? No inner torment examples, please. What has the Universe done to Stephen that he should raise his fist to Heaven?

Misunderstood and underappreciated by whom? LL posters? Your family? Your girlfriend?Schoolmates? The world in general? You put stock in these? The Lord knows your true worth and those adepts with "rare insight" do as well. In general, the rest love or hate based on their own conditioning and needs.

Also, I can't help but wonder if this faith might better serve you if placed elsewhere.

And I do listen to what people have to say. I listen, and I respond directly to what they have said. Most times they dont respond back, or, if they do, don't mention my responses, unless it is to complain that I did not change my mind. They rarely change theirs either, but not, I think, for good reasons, which they are reluctant or unable to produce.

You might very well have come upon many such as these. My sympathies. I am not one of them. There are several others, wiser than myself, on this site. My brother, that unbridled intellect of yours is just begging for a worthy opponent to tire it out, isn't it? Ask yourself why that might be.

Can I help it if my ideas are so consistently opposed to others'? Can I help it if I have spent a great deal of time arriving at and refining my ideas, so that it might take a really solid argument to tear me away from them? You think I am close minded. I think I am so open minded it scares people. I dont just listen to your point of view, I empathize with it, I take it up, and proceed to flesh it out with arguments which you yourself are either unaware of, or unwilling to produce. Then, I proceed to find the flaws in it, and I return to my own point of view, which is extremely well developed and hard to find holes in.

Oh my. This, if I might exercise my own insight, is the crux of the problem. This is the fortress behind which Heart Shaped Cross hides.

posted May 09, 2007 09:18 AM            

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 19, 2007 01:47 AM              

quote:

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Lake DanceKnowflake
Posts: 205From:
Registered: May 2007
posted May 19, 2007 12:25 AM Because the computers here where I'm using one are getting goofy again, so, reluctantly, after a couple of consecutive posting failures, I am splitting my original post into a few:BrightStar,I realize you didn't ask me. But if you asked me, I'd say that picture means nothing associating with HSC whatsoever (but of course HSC would not need my being a bit nosy here, whether I'm acting as though I'm defending him or I'm acting as though I'm just self-seeking, looking for yet another meaningless fight), and that picture is disgusting to the extreme, has no basic human respect whatsoever, and is simply not anything that can represent HSC, I can tell you. Forgive me for being nosy, it's just my Mars conj Asc making me inclined to be a bit impulsive, impatient etc etc. And let me remind you, I ain't gonna waste my time dealing with flamboyant, lifeless double-talkers. Oh, I don't mean you, my fellow readers here. I mean, I'll just ignore them as I pass by
LakeIP: Logged

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posted May 19, 2007 08:03 AM            

Fayte.m, very expressive pic.

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 19, 2007 11:09 AM              

quote:

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Fayte.m, very expressive pic.

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posted May 20, 2007 09:03 AM            

Many read Jalalu'd-Din Rumi but few have the depth of understanding of his Work beyond the material. Yet when I read his poem on this subject, I find him quite clear...

God hath placed a ladder before us: we must climb it, step by step.
You have feet: why pretend to be lame? You have hands: why conceal the fingers that grip?
Freewill is the endeavour to thank God for His beneficence; your necessitarianism denies that Beneficence.
Thanksgiving for the power of acting freely gives you more power to thank Him; necessitarianism takes away what God hath given.

An excellent insight to this thought can be found in Masnavi The Thief`s Excuse.

Translated from Arabic/Persian/Farsi (?), Fatalism and Necessitarianism and free will.

Fatalism [jabr]:literally means "compulsion." The extreme
theological doctrine of Absolute Fate or Necessitarianism
(Jabariyyah), which denies that human beings have any free will
and that asserts that human actions are completely predetermined.
Thus, according to this doctrine, human beings have no true
responsibility for their actions, because all events and actions
(including the future placement of souls in Heaven or Hell) are the
sole decision of God.

free will [ikhtiyâr]: literally means , "choice." The belief that
human beings are free to choose their actions and are therefore
responsible.Jalalu'd-Din Rumi condemns Fatalism and Necessitarianism and
strongly emphasizes the importance of free will, responsibility, and
the need to strive. However, he does not teach the extreme
theological doctrine of Free Will (Qadariyyah), according to which
human beings are absolutely free and the complete creators of their
actions.

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 22, 2007 01:03 PM            

Juniperb,

"Enough, for the veil of speech has begun to spin a curtain around you."

quote:

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Many read Jalalu'd-Din Rumi but few have the depth of understanding of his Work beyond the material.

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You have said it,
but you have not understood.

posted May 23, 2007 03:37 AM            

That's right beautiful man.

and God absolutely speaks To you and Through you and I know that there are those who will repeat your words to teach others and help them make their own connections to God... lighting their path...

posted May 23, 2007 10:07 AM            

Melody,

posted May 23, 2007 10:15 AM              

quote:

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Lately, I can't recall a time when I've felt like such a spiritual loser. I feel like I've failed at life. I was already born a handful, and my parents had small hands (like Jewel). I dont know if there is any salvaging me now. I'm lazy, spoiled, arrogant, undisciplined, impulsive, self-destructive, greedy, selfish, insensitive, cowardly, unrealistic, and bullheaded. I think God must have a strange sense of humor, to give (I should say afflict) someone like me the gift (curse) of insight. I know too much. I am shamed by the light of all that I know.

At one time, I could take comfort in what Francis de Sales says, about how, the more awakened we become, the greater our sins appear, so that a saint looks upon her sins (modest though they may be) with more disgust than a murderer looks upon his own. But my sins are too evident to the world for me to imagine that they are only overwhelming in my own eyes.

I am a host of devils, a bed of ensemened snakes, twisting and coiling in the musk of depravity. Where is my angel will, to cast them out? That excaliber, which all who do battle with demons know to hold firm, has slipped my reach. That weapon, without which no soul advances to meet the devil, and, even gripping it fast, still, advances with the greatest care and trepidation, - it is lost to me. How can I fight these giants now, who never cease to grow more forbidding? My pockets are full of stones, but I have no sling... Now the ground is a devouring quicksand. My feet, pledged to Neptune, are the first to go. I would pray to God for deliverence, but every part of me is weak, resigned, careless. My being is too crowded with impurities for even my fear to rise up and cry out. I observe it all with cowardly detachment. I still have some blind, unreasoning, infantile faith that God will save me, in spite of it all, - but I have so little faith in my power to save myself. Or maybe I perceive that its just not worth the effort. Is that my choice? Or have devils covered my eyes with a film of black?

here's looking at the abyss, kid,
HSC

((and this post started out so cheery))

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