posted August 14, 2012 09:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
The wise men were Astrologers.

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Yes

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 14, 2012 10:39 PM            

quote:

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The wise men were Astrologers.

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posted August 14, 2012 11:37 PM            

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;
15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.
16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.
17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.
19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

The word used for "signs" is לְאֹתֹת֙ and appears again in Isaiah 8:18 when he says:

18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

It would seem God created the stars not only for marking the seasons (or וּֽלְמֹעֲדִ֖ים which translates as "feasts", "festivals", or "holidays"), but also for divination (Divination (from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god",[2] related to divinus, divine) thanks Wikipedia).

posted August 15, 2012 02:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Rosalind:
Astrology is not a sin. Has nothing to do with religion and its not witchcraft. Astrology is a science and because religious people believe that science of any kind is evil and so on they consider astrology as part of the evil. In reality, astrology is also invented by God through the Universe, the stars and the planets. The problems lies in the bible. There is written that astrology is evil, thats why most people or at least very reliogious people think astrology is a sin. Because its not praised in the bible as being a good thing. When the bible was written not many people were taught like Aristotle.

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Rosalind, I have to gently correct you. Not all people of faith believe that science is wrong or evil.

Not all denominations are anti-science.

There is quite a bit of diversity in Christianity. Some types are more vocal and visible than others, but they aren't the only kinds of Christianity out there.

posted August 15, 2012 02:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shura:
Or maybe they read a goat's entrails?

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posted August 15, 2012 02:37 AM            

I use astrology mainly to help me understand people. I see the signs and planets as symbols, nothing more. You could just as easily have called them another name, came up with a different system. I treat astrology like I would the Myers-Briggs.

At this point, I do consider giving up astrology from time to time--or at least not focusing on it so much. I think that the interpersonal part of it is what really fascinates me more than anything: understanding people, learning how to deal with them, learning how to connect with them.

However, I'd rather let go of it a little bit so that it doesn't become obsessive. I sometimes wish that it didn't interest me because it takes up a lot of time. Luckily, though, I have other interests.

I asked one Christian about it--someone I know and trust--and her take is that it isn't bad to use astrology to understand people and to bring about peace between you and them, to understand their viewpoint, etc.

I would also like to point out that some old Christians used astrology. I can't find the article anymore, but I started a thread on this same subject a long time ago and posted the links there.

**

posted August 15, 2012 03:07 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Curious, how so? Jesus came to [b]"fullfill" the Law, not change one iota of it.

Matthew 5:17

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

[/B]

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By offering Himself as the perfect sacrifice he abolished the laws and decrees which were contrary to the salvation of mankind.

The way the old Covenant worked is if one violated one law, ie, ate shrimp, you violated the entire law, one would be as guilty as if one murdered their neighbor.

I'm a bit surprised by all of this, it is Bible 101 stuff.

The one ober dictum the NT is crystal clear about is stay away from Idols..period. Paul did say one may eat food offered to idols simply because as mature adults, a block of wood is simply a block of wood, there is no spiritual significance to it, but there is a huge difference between that, and actually think an idol has some sort of touch of the Divine.

posted August 15, 2012 03:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
The wise men were Astrologers.

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Exactly, one of the funnier things to a Bible reader is the "Magi" are often said to have been only 3, that is not accurate, 3 gifts were given, but the total number was not mentioned.

Add in, they were warned in a dream NOT to go back and tell Herod where Christ was born, toss in the proper view that Christ was "born" see conceived, in December, and born in September (count the months) and things make a bit more sense.

Astrology, visitations in dreams to none believers..oh my..what will the local Deacon Board think?

posted August 15, 2012 03:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Well, why would you not want to give aid to Israel and want to give it to Arab countries if you do not hate Israel?

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I feel the need to speak up at yet another unfairness. And a DD thread is an appropriate place to do it in, imo.

What a stunning lack of restraint shown by a Mod!! To not only not care about derailing the thread, but also be uncaring (yet again) about making open and completely baseless accusations against another Mod, Juni, who has repeatedly shown remarkable restraint through tactfulness.

This is the 3rd thread in which this scenario has been repeated by the same Mod (AmiAnne) Between July 25 and August 14. That's 3 baseless accusations in 3 weeks!!! One per week??

The other 2 threads I saw this in are--
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000438.html
Here Juni was accused of attacking AA when clearly no such "attack" happened.

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000450.html
Here, completely out of left field, Juni was accused of having a lot of hate in her--page 2

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Juni
You have a lot of hate in you. For someone who professes to be a Christian, it is the opposite of what you should have imho

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And what is amazing is this quote here--
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum25/HTML/003611.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I can't be liked by everyone. I don't expect to be, but I do love LL] and give it my best and am loyal to it.

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Really??

But you are repeatedly putting Randall, the Webmaster, in an uncomfortable position of having to support you (because he supports all his Mods), despite your being the provoker/instigator of fights/accusations at LL.

Is this not taking unfair advantage of Randall's compassion? Is it not creating tension for him? Is it not important to think about the impact of one's actions on everyone around before rushing to prove oneself right?

And loyalty is shown not through words but through actions ... of supporting Randall's and the Website's aims and goals ... which are summarized by ...diversity, open mindedness, and harmony.

I've mentioned this before (back in May) on another thread,--
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/213801.html

I just cannot understand why it's so difficult to put the needs of the LL community before one's own, particularly since that is (in my understanding) what's required of a Mod.

And to do this while simultaneously espousing Born Again Christian beliefs in threads like "God is Love," and presenting oneself as a Bible "teacher" of sorts, is not only mind boggling but also quite misleading, imo.

I do not think Love is shown by lack of tolerance toward religions other than one's own, and toward people with different beliefs.

Neither is it shown by lack of humility and grace.

posted August 15, 2012 03:47 AM            

Good for you for standing up for your self!!!

AND PROVING the absolute baselessness of the accusations hurled at you.

I also agree with you about the fundamentalist pattern behind the accusatory thought, which to me seems quite obsessive in nature.

And I'm in complete agreement about your opinion on the frequent use of the word "hate". I myself cannot bring myself to say that word or the word "haters" easily at all. To my knowledge, the use is discouraged by most spiritual disciplines.

The reason for this is that what the mind focuses on usually magnifies ... in the mind ... and therefore in the personality. So repeated use of this word draws the focus of the mind to the negative quality contained in this word. And this is what then grows in the personality.

posted August 15, 2012 03:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GrlyGirl200:
I've started a few topics this week. But this is something that has been a question in my thoughts for the last few days.

This question is mainly to Christians, but any faith can discuss this.

Do you think Astrology is a sin? Or that the practice of Astrology is frowned upon by God?

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If you can use astrology to understand yourself and other people better, with the intention of bettering yourself and your relationships, how can it be a sin?

posted August 15, 2012 07:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
If you can use astrology to understand yourself and other people better, with the intention of bettering yourself and your relationships, how can it be a sin?

When our relationship with self as well as others improves (through understanding), our relationship with God improves. How can the Infinitely Compassionate God frown upon this? Imo He approves of anything and everything that leads to the growth of the individual soul.

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posted August 15, 2012 07:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
RegardesPlatero,

no worries about this turn about. No one has the power to reduce me to name calling or bitter accusations. I am sorry GU got dragged into it but I can`t account for anothers actions.

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All right.

Since other mods seem to not want me to intervene, what would you prefer that I do if things get out of hand, if anything?

That's where it is hard for me. I personally would rather nip things in the bud and get things back on track before they get out of hand, but other mods seem to prefer that I not do that.

posted August 15, 2012 07:52 AM            

They were God worshipping men seeking the Christ navigating by the stars.

Faith first, astrologers second.

If viewed in that order, no astrology is not a sin.

posted August 15, 2012 08:13 AM            

I too prefer a kum bay ya approach, saturn in libra here agrees very much with you

But! we are spiritual beings having a human experience hence oftimes the ego blinds us to reason .

I am sorry you are uncomfortable with these current threads in which I have been a participant.. I stand here in my responsibility and hide behind no one.

You ask elsewhere how one can be more assertive in their Faith.

Perhaps the threads are a how to- how not manual?

Seriously, you are doing a great job and I appreciate the open forum and the ability to express myself without lock down censor.

posted August 15, 2012 08:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
RP,

I too prefer a kum bay ya approach, saturn in libra here agrees very much with you

But! we are spiritual beings having a human experience hence oftimes the ego blinds us to reason .

I am sorry you are uncomfortable with these current threads in which I have been a participant.. I stand here in my responsibility and hide behind no one.

You ask elsewhere how one can be more assertive in their Faith.

Perhaps the threads are a how to- how not manual?

Seriously, you are doing a great job and I appreciate the open forum and the ability to express myself without lock down censor.

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aww thanks

For the record, it isn't so much disagreement that bothers me as it is how it occurs.

However, I can appreciate the 'no censor' approach.

I hope to eventually have a happy medium: people speak freely, but know where to draw the line.

You made me think, too, about two other things:

a) do I experience arguments more intensely as a spectator than those who actually have them?

and

b) is my own general approach to things (i.e., often keeping my mouth shut, though I've been trying to practice being assertive here on LL) maybe at work here?

posted August 15, 2012 08:48 AM            

If you believe that God controls everything, including the planets, wouldn't God still be in control, and not the stars, if you are into astrology?

Wouldn't astrology just be one system of many that exist?

And wouldn't it still be under God's domain and will?

Would some people consider a chart as a sort of blueprint given to you by God, chosen by God--again, a sign of God's authority and dominance, and not that of any stars or planets?

To my understanding of biblical texts--and people DO see the Bible differently which is OK--isn't it mainly using divination and fortune-telling that really is the problem?

What do people think about personality astrology as opposed to predictive astrology? Is it really all that different than believing in the Myers-Briggs or enneagram? I haven't seen those two systems condemned (not to say that they haven't been, just that they tend to not get as much of a reaction from people). Do people see a difference in the different types? Do intent and usage matter?

And if God created the planets, does God not want us to use the planets? Or are only some uses acceptable (like astronomy)?

Again, to be clear, I do not believe in predictive astrology or in divination. I only am interested in astrology for personality analysis and to improve relationships/learn more about people and how they work and how best to interact, though as I said, I do want to spend less time on it. And, too, other ways of learning about people and interaction are important to me.

I'm going to talk to one of my Christian friends later this week about it and get her take on things, as she's never led me wrong and I trust her completely.

posted August 15, 2012 09:23 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 15, 2012 09:35 AM            

quote:

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If you believe that God controls everything, including the planets, wouldn't God still be in control, and not the stars, if you are into astrology?

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Indeed and as Linda Goodman so eloquently reminds us :

the the starts incline, they do not compel .

posted August 15, 2012 09:48 AM            

I'm a Libra NN-er, with Pluto in that sign too. (Libra influenced, like you, RP). I prefer things to be peaceful as well. But I see these kinds of threads as an opportunity for growth, walking your spiritual or religious talk and practicing what you preach, leading by & setting a good example, and as ways to learn things from and about one another and ...."taking things up a notch' . I do not think any good would come from having a Mod swoop in and shut down anytime something got a little uncomfortable or tense. What good would that do? As a last resort, okay, but otherwise, no. I think 9 times out of 10, it's better to let people work things out on their own. I am not afraid of discord. Maybe I am remembering discordant threads from years gone by, and comparing....because this is nothing! lol

Also, I have never, ever seen Juni stoop to name calling or passive aggressive remarks and the like. In all the years she's been here, since day one, not once has she lost her cool and taken anything out on anyone else or gotten nasty with anyone, ever. Even if they have been to her. I greatly admire that about her. She is wise, mature, genuinely kind, very patient with people and always takes the highest road.

The topics in this forum are what she is most passionate and knowledgeable about. I love reading what she has to share and always have. She's not here to start arguments and doesnt allow herself to get entangled in them. She is truly interested in another's point of view and RESPECTS it.

Anyway, this is what I have observed over many years. She has been one of the wisest most peaceful presences to ever hit the boards of LL and I think even people who have not been here as long can easily see that.

posted August 15, 2012 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, I believe in the Pauline doctrine. We are saved by grace through faith but the faith is not of ourselves. It is a gift from God.

Well, why would you not want to give aid to Israel and want to give it to Arab countries if you do not hate Israel?

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posted August 15, 2012 10:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 12thhouser:
Was there a goat at the birth of Jesus? Can't recall one in the nativity scene. :P

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I can't recall the Magi at the nativity scene