posted November 23, 2012 11:33 PM            

So what about those who promote this idea but ALSO promote the idea that a world is predestined in which evil does not exist (the day that the lion will lay with the lamb)? (For examples, a literal translation of Revelations of the Bible.) Does this mean that as there is no evil that there is no good? And if there's good then how has it become possible, and if God makes it possible then why didn't God make it possible from the beginning (saving countless from Hell)?

Also, does it mean in a world no longer touched by evil that there is no free will?

posted November 24, 2012 12:16 AM            

so i've deleted them.

posted November 24, 2012 10:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I've noticed that many say that for good to exist there must be evil, and that evil is pretty much an inevitable consequence of free will, that is as long as we're free to choose what we do and believe some are going to choose to do evil, perhaps once, or perhaps so much that it becomes a way of life.

So what about those who promote this idea but ALSO promote the idea that a world is predestined in which evil does not exist (the day that the lion will lay with the lamb)? (For examples, a literal translation of Revelations of the Bible.) Does this mean that as there is no evil that there is no good? And if there's good then how has it become possible, and if God makes it possible then why didn't God make it possible from the beginning (saving countless from Hell)?

Also, does it mean in a world no longer touched by evil that there is no free will?

I'd also like to ask if someone who believes the above (like Revelations) what they thought of the Jasmine storyline in Angel. I realize most readers won't be able to say, but just in case I'd like to throw it out there...how exactly would say Jesus coming back and all evil going away and people worshiping God forever be that different from Jasmine taking over the world and making everyone worship her with no free will of their own (but also gave them utter bliss & happiness and selfless love for each other) with those able to resist her mind control powers being judged & destroyed? (And can you imagine if the show HAD replaced the character of Jasmine with Jesus... )

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I don't watch TV or movies, basically.
As to the lion lying down with the lamb, evil comes in through the ego, ONLY.

When people lose the ego, they lose acting in evil ways.

Hence, when people are in the Millenium and have no ego, there will be no evil.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 24, 2012 09:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
So why does the ego go away?

And if it's because God says so, then why hasn't God already said so?

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The ego is in us, as long as we are on the earth. In the next age( as long as you accept Jesus, which people don't want to accep), you will be in the Millenium, and free of ego.

I hate to say this but must. If you don't accept Jesus, none of this matters, as you will go to Hell.

Your only time to accept Jesus is while you are alive. After you die, you have no choice.

You go to Heaven or Hell.

I must say this, as truth is love.

Now, is the time to make the choice. People will go crazy at my saying this.

I have to say the truth as I see it. It is this.

Blessings!

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 25, 2012 03:29 AM            

That was an assertion that didn't even attempt to answer my question.

posted November 25, 2012 04:14 AM            

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Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

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Exodus 4:11
"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?"

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I Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

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I Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

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I Samuel 16:16
Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

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I Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

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posted November 25, 2012 04:23 AM              

If determined enough, a person could literally choose to not eat, and starve to death.. simply on choice.

Animals, could never do this, by design.

posted November 25, 2012 04:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I hate to say this but must. If you don't accept Jesus, none of this matters, as you will go to Hell.

Your only time to accept Jesus is while you are alive. After you die, you have no choice.

You go to Heaven or Hell.

I must say this, as truth is love.

Now, is the time to make the choice. People will go crazy at my saying this.

I have to say the truth as I see it. It is this.

Blessings!

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posted November 25, 2012 04:26 AM              

quote:

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A Chinese finger trap (also known as a Chinese finger puzzle, Chinese handcuffs and similar variants) is a gag toy used to play a practical joke on children and unsuspecting adults. The finger trap is a simple puzzle that traps the victim's fingers (often the index fingers) in both ends of a small, woven bamboo cylinder.

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http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Damned+if+you+do,+damned+if+you+don%27t

posted November 25, 2012 09:59 AM            

I am here to answer questions posed to ME.

Thank you!

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 25, 2012 10:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

The ego is in us, as long as we are on the earth. In the next age( as long as you accept Jesus, which people don't want to accep), you will be in the Millenium, and free of ego.

I hate to say this but must. If you don't accept Jesus, none of this matters, as you will go to Hell.

Your only time to accept Jesus is while you are alive. After you die, you have no choice.

You go to Heaven or Hell.

I must say this, as truth is love.

Now, is the time to make the choice. People will go crazy at my saying this.

I have to say the truth as I see it. It is this.

Blessings!

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The "ego" is one of the most misunderstood concepts in human history. And the rapture follows close to it.

The history or invention of the rapture was about 1800 years after the death of the physical Jesus.

The Christ has existed since time began and will continue Ad infinitum.

Rather will there be another physical embodiment of the Christ is the question I see rather than a "rapture" that is a creation of John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century theologian.

I see no harm in people beliving in the rapture per se but the problem arises when they try to foist it on others and condem those who don`t agree. That`s sad and very unChristian like . Love your neighbor as your self makes no "rapture " distinction.

A failure of this opens the path to ego or a superiority over others.

posted November 25, 2012 10:07 AM            

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/rapture-popular-false-doctrine/

Lexx, so good to see you back here again

posted November 25, 2012 10:17 AM            

People do ask me questions and I answer.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 25, 2012 10:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
The "ego" is one of the most misunderstood concepts in human history. And the rapture follows close to it.

The history or invention of the rapture was about 1800 years after the death of the physical Jesus.

The Christ has existed since time began and will continue Ad infinitum.

Rather will there be another physical embodiment of the Christ is the question I see rather than a "rapture" that is a creation of John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century theologian.

I see no harm in people beliving in the rapture per se but the problem arises when they try to foist it on others and condem those who don`t agree. That`s sad and very unChristian like . Love your neighbor as your self makes no "rapture " distinction.

A failure of this opens the path to ego or a superiority over others.

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quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
A nice link to the history of the rapture .

http://www.ucg.org/doctrinal-beliefs/rapture-popular-false-doctrine/

Lexx, so good to see you back here again

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posted November 25, 2012 10:54 AM            

Blessings

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted November 25, 2012 11:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Guys
I want to re-iterate. I do not want to fight with anyone.
I have my set of beliefs that I will share with someone who asks. Sometimes, I post something based on my beliefs, which is my right, as is yours and everyone else.

Blessings

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posted November 25, 2012 11:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Guys
I want to re-iterate. I do not want to fight with anyone.
I have my set of beliefs that I will share with someone who asks. Sometimes, I post something based on my beliefs, which is my right, as is yours and everyone else.

Blessings

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I do not fight.
Period.
I do stand for what I believe and have Faith in. Opposing beliefs are what "discussions" are made of.

I say it, I mean it and I own it. That`s all;I leave fighting in the sandbox with the children.

If this is clearly understood, then there is no need for suggestions of anything else and we can share oppossing beliefs like adults !

posted November 25, 2012 12:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I don't watch TV or movies, basically.
As to the lion lying down with the lamb, evil comes in through the ego, ONLY.

When people lose the ego, they lose acting in evil ways.

Hence, when people are in the Millenium and have no ego, there will be no evil.

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I pretty much agree with this. But!! for the "ego" to freeze/die, one must love their neighbor as their self. Only then can ego / evil cease.

First learn to love others as self and all else ceases to separate humanity.

posted November 25, 2012 07:27 PM            

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noun, plural e·gos.
1.
the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.
2.
Psychoanalysis . the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.

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quote:

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egotism;
conceit; self-importance: Her ego becomes more unbearable each day.

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4.
self-esteem or self-image; feelings: Your criticism wounded his ego.
5.
( often initial capital letter ) Philosophy .
a.
the enduring and conscious element that knows experience.
b.
Scholasticism . the complete person comprising both body and soul.

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More definitions below.

quote:

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World English Dictionary
ego
— n , pl egos
1. the self of an individual person; the conscious subject
2. psychoanal the conscious mind, based on perception of the environment from birth onwards: responsible for modifying the antisocial instincts of the id and itself modified by the conscience (superego)
3. one's image of oneself; morale: to boost one's ego
4. egotism; conceit

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quote:

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Medical Dictionary
ego e·go (ē'gō, ěg'ō
n.
In psychoanalytic theory, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and mediates between the person and external reality.

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Cultural Dictionary
ego [( ee -goh)]

The “I” or self of any person ( ego is Latin for “I”). In psychological terms, the ego is the part of the psyche that experiences the outside world and reacts to it, coming between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social environment, represented by the superego.

Note : The term ego is often used to mean personal pride and self-absorption: “Losing at chess doesn't do much for my ego.”

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NumeroLexigrams
~I remember,
therefore I am immortal
~Lexxigramer
My Lexigramming Biography

posted November 25, 2012 08:45 PM            

quote:

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If one considers the Bible an authoritative source (and after all, that's where the idea of Christian heaven comes from) then you will find little to be desiring about the place called heaven unless you wish to become a mindless soul in a utopian world similar to the world of the Borg as presented by the Star Trek series. How many Christians realize that heaven is a 1500 mile cube city, or that violence and horror occurs from there, and that its inhabitants have little freedom of expression?

The source of my interpretation comes not from me but from the Bible and from one of the worlds best-known scholars and an authority on the New Testament: Bruce M. Metzger. He has taught for many years at Princeton Theological Seminary, the author of over 35 books and the Chairman of the NRSV Translation Committee. My only contribution is the comparison of the descriptions of heaven with the Borg from the Star Trek series

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posted November 25, 2012 10:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I can't believe I'd forgotten this, a guy who brilliantly, IMO, compared Heaven (especially as described in Revelations) to a Borg cube (from the Star Trek series):
http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm

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quote:

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If one considers the Bible an authoritative source (and after all, that's where the idea of Christian heaven comes from) then you will find little to be desiring about the place called heaven unless you wish to become a mindless soul in a utopian world similar to the world of the Borg as presented by the Star Trek series. How many Christians realize that heaven is a 1500 mile cube city, or that violence and horror occurs from there, and that its inhabitants have little freedom of expression?

The source of my interpretation comes not from me but from the Bible and from one of the worlds best-known scholars and an authority on the New Testament: Bruce M. Metzger. He has taught for many years at Princeton Theological Seminary, the author of over 35 books and the Chairman of the NRSV Translation Committee. My only contribution is the comparison of the descriptions of heaven with the Borg from the Star Trek series

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posted November 26, 2012 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yeah, without ego, one would cease to care what religion one followed, because religion is ultimately an ego trip. Spirituality, OTOH, can be very transcendental. Religion can also help overcome the ego in some ways but as far as I can tell it's almost always so as to submit to someone else's ego, and often inflate one's own ego by "becoming a saint (holier/better-than-though").

Yesterday I almost shared what a well respected (in America) Russian Orthodox priest had to say on evil, suffering, and the ego (if nothing else it served as an example of a coherent explanation) but I decided against it as he doesn't believe in a literal "new heaven and new earth" (he believes it's symbolic of life after death without understandable form rather than God recreating everything and arbitrarily changing the metaphysical rules), and he finds most to all Western Christians (and their concepts like "without evil there can be no good") to be heretics who don't really understand Christianity (guess it's the ego thing again...) and I also feared it would completely sidestep the question (but then it appears my question was stepped around anyway...).

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Personally, I would like to hear his story on evil, suffering and ego Please!

posted November 26, 2012 07:41 PM            

And hey, I just came across part 1 of The Word of the Cross! (It's amazing, over 12 years later and I'm recalling more of this than I thought, at least enough to know what he's about to say and the tone he says it in.) You can hear it here (and I think there are 4 parts, so it's HOURS long to hear it all, but I wasn't a Christian and I found it interesting due to his humor and his ability to explain clearly which appealed to my air elements, and perhaps my Sag nature, too):
http://ancientfaith.com/specials/hopko_lectures/the_word_of_the_cross_part_1

I just heard the first 3 minutes again and he does seem to embrace the "Borg" mentality in that one should die completely and become a member of the body of Christ (though I'm sure he'd be bemused by that interpretation).

He also says that his is a faith that isn't in contradiction with any ideology ("at least it shouldn't be") but that's peculiar, I think, to the OCA (Orthodox Churches of America). In Russia the church taught that the earthly powers of Russia were put there by God (and one is required to pray for them DAILY), and I know it kept some Russian Orthodox from resisting Stalin as a result of this belief (one Russian woman, even after being tortured & interrogated, forced to betray her family, while Stalin watched coldly for part of her interrogation still remained convinced Stalin was blessed by God). Obviously, those Russian Orthodox who fled (the smarter and less dogmatic ones, IMO) rethought their views and become a lot more apolitical, and while they still prayed for leaders it was more for them to be guided by God than be protected and stopped facilitating tyranny. Fr. Thom being raised an American only enhanced that even further.

But anyway, back to the thread, he would say that ego is part of our sinful nature, the price for Adam & Eve's sin (though the Russian Orthodox don't count Augustine as part of their tradition and thus don't universally accept "original sin," but it's too complicated for me to explain), so that one must overcome it but ultimately it will only come about by death, and hopefully one will have accepted God's grace by then so that one transcends one's death. A lifetime of learning to overcome the ego through their teaching & tradition is what allows that, and it's not that God arbitrarily makes ego go away as the fundies say, but rather that's something we have to do for ourselves, nor do they accept a literal interpretation of Revelations (such as rapture, literal New Earth, etc), it's very symbolic of a spiritual reality that we mortals don't have the means to accurately describe (one of the most poetic descriptions I heard from a Russian Orthodox is that all souls burn as they face the ineffable glory of God, just like the seraphim, the difference is some do so cursing God in agony while others do it praising God in ecstasy as they're become part of that glory). Another interesting thing is that they pray for the dead because they believe in a purgatory like state in which a spirit continues to shake off sin to be in the Glory of God.

And he (and his trad) doesn't say, "Without evil there can be no good" but rather that evil passes away with the world of sin (they also tend to hold a more apophatic theology, at least at the "advanced levels," which would say that "good" and "evil" are human concepts which are too limiting to ascribe accurately to God). Therefore I couldn't ask him this because he doesn't accept the Western fundamentalist Christian interpretation & theology that makes such claims.

That said I knew someone who worked closely with him and while he can be a very pleasant person, he is afflicted with ego himself (which he'd admit to, that's why even priests need to go to confession and receive absolution). I also listened to the Word of the Cross twice over (remember, that link I give is just to part 1, there's more) and I recall nitpicking a lot of it and ultimately rejecting it (however, I did find him coherent and could understand why he thought as he did), one of those being (if I'm recalling the right lecture) that the difference between Buddhism & Christianity is in Buddhism it's "if you meet Buddha, kill him," whereas in Christianity it's, "If you meet Jesus, kill yourself." That is, Fr. Thom is saying you need to kill your ego, your sinful nature, and live according to Christian teaching. I, however, looked up the Buddhist teaching at the time and recognized that it was very much in the spirit of Robert Anton Wilson in that the world is illusion and to avoid becoming entangled in it one had to continually challenge one's own assumptions...that is, enlightenment came in steps, but one wasn't meant to dwell on steps, they had to keep moving forward, forever learning and leaving previous steps behind as they took new steps forward. That is, Fr. Thom's view was "?!" (The answer being Jesus) while the Buddhist view was more "?!?!?!...infinity." So I saw Fr. Thom's way of getting wrapped up in illusion and ultimately ego as one embraced it (as the Buddhist view made more sense to me in this regard), though of course Fr. Thom sees it as accepting God's word over one's own personal enlightenment so he'd say his way was about overcoming the ego.

And just to be clear I don't think the ego is a bad thing...all things in moderation and balance in my view, the "we" is as important as the "I" and we have egos for a reason, the tricky part is not letting an asset become a liability. In my view, we need a little ego to grow, but too much becomes counterproductive.