posted July 26, 2009 02:23 PM         

As far as friends are concerned, I don't hang with them all the time because my ideas of fun have become different from theirs, so I will join them on few occasions when I feel like subjecting myself to blaring noise, and crowds. Besides, I am usually out in club setting due to what I do, but I usually stay in a club for 2 hrs and leave.

They, on the other hand are still on the same pace they were at University. So, what happens is that I am that friend that they see to talk, relax, exchange ideas etc.

I've found my niche with them.

posted July 26, 2009 02:54 PM         

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Chiron quincunx Juno
You may find that your spiritual journey of initiation and healing are incompatible with the demands of a traditional marriage commitment. Though you may desire both, there is some sense of paradox, or a riddle to be solved in order to integrate both harmoniously into your life. Efforts to bridge the gap between them may be frustrating, as the results often end in futility. It is important not to give up, as the effort itself is enriching and adds to your understanding and personal healing. It could be necessary to redefine the nature of your relationship commitment in the interest of growth and healing.

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and...

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Pluto trine or sextile Juno
You instinctively understand how to make and keep your intimate involvements intense and dynamic. You may be, and/or also be attracted to, someone with a lot of intensity and personal power. That can translate into physical, financial, social or charismatic power. You seek passion and depth in relationship, and you gravitate to those who can "handle the heat". Together you can be a force to be reckoned with.

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and...

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Pluto quincunx Chiron
Your path of self-healing and initiation involves a riddle or a sense of paradox. Issues of personal power seem incompatible or unconnected with your journey of awakening and healing, so that you find it difficult to confront your deepest feelings about intimacy, loss and attachments. This dynamic can impede your ability to actualize your healing. You may have an attraction/avoidance pattern with your "shadow" side, thereby rendering yourself powerless to consciously direct or control your need to act out your psychological wound. You will likely make many efforts to bridge the gap between these aspects of yourself, usually with less than satisfactory results, but the effort can produce much personal growth and awareness within you.

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posted July 26, 2009 07:28 PM         

i'm in a unique situation despite looking normal, having a regular upbringing, and all that great stuff you'd read as pluses on some match site, i think i'm on the flip side of most people. i have lack of experience and i'm afraid the way people are these days, i probably am some sort of weirdo to them.

i've told guy friends this who are typical alpha males and they don't seem to care...like i get a pass...and the few, very few men who are interested in me, they don't seem to care either. but i admit i am embarrassed by it but it's something i can't really control or force because it takes two people to make a commitment and i'm still just one person by myself. i do what i can on my end...i'm ready but whoever he is, i don't even know who he is and where he is to make the commitment to me.

but on top of that, i very much am an old fashioned type of girl and i respect this kind of stuff and take it seriously. guys these days i find are just into what you see on tv or movies. you know there doesn't to be any such thing as courtship and romance and seriousness.

and i agree i am most into having a deep friendship with a man. i don't know why but the idea of typical relationship stuff turns me off. i get annoyed when i see couples arguing about stupid small stuff or doing PDA stuff. i need a best friend to hang with.

posted July 26, 2009 10:48 PM         

It seems like when I'm wrecked inside and desiring of love and feel myself wanting a "hero," there's no one around. Then the second I get myself up on my own two feet again, finally feeling gorgeous and strong, some one suddenly comes around and the next thing I know I'm in a relationship. I don't even know how it happens sometimes, it feels like I just wake up and BOOM- commitment.

I feel like I'm kind of a confusing partner to have anyway. I'm attentive and and a romantic but also incredibly independent and self-willed, which can seem like a mixed message to some people. Most of my relationships erupt into power struggle as a result (I have Aries Sun opp Libra Pluto natally and with virtually everyone of my generation), and I typically become involved with beautiful but troubled people who feed off my life force until it's gone, a savior/victim sort of thing.

I also have a terrible habit of seeing my partners as their best selves at all times. When I really fall for someone it's really dangerous to my psyche, because I truly consider that person to be my PARTNER in every sense of the word. I fall in love with their wounds and warts, and begin to hold them to the same standards I hold myself. When they f*** up (and I mean REALLY f up, not just forgetting to put the toilet seat down or whatever), it seriously destroys me. I take it to mean that they're apathetic toward or unappreciative of the love I'm offering them. Considering how hard it is for me to fall in love like that in the first place, the feelings of betrayal are so deep that it feels like someone's throwing me down a well.

I guess as I've gotten older (and my relationships progressively harder), I've gotten pretty closed off as a result. I do tend to be skeptical and hard to win over, with men especially. Add my love for my son and my fear of bringing unnecessary drama into his life, and.. there are just a LOT of nails in that coffin. I'd love to meet someone who could be my true partner, but sometimes I think it's just not in the cards for me.

The cosmos would blame all this on my:

* Moon conjunct Juno in 8th house Capricorn - strong desire for and ability to love, but tendency to attract partners seeking a mother figure

* T Square; Moon/Juno to Sun (11th Aries) and Saturn - belief developed in childhood that all relationships are inherently flawed and will end

* T square; Moon/Juno to Sun and Pluto- much more likely to explode than implode when the going gets tough, expectation of nothing less than complete connection and trust

* Retrograde Pluto & Retrograde Saturn both in 5th house Libra - relationships typically handled in wrong, backwards ways, difficulty in finding a good balance of power

* Sun opposition Pluto - constant personal transformations and an obsession with always being true to the self

* Lilith & Retrograde Neptune conjunct in the 7th houses- simultaneously desires and avoids relationships, idealizes and dismisses them

* Mars Square Juno- general course of action makes commitment difficult

* Venus in Pisces square Gemini Asc (0°58) - tendency to hoard expression of love internally, or to pretend love is not needed or desired at all as an act of self-protection

posted July 26, 2009 11:30 PM         

DSC in Sagittarius
Jupiter in Aries in 11th
Saturn/Uranus conjunct DSC in Sagittarius in 7th house
Neptune in Cap in 7th
Venus in 10th in Pisces square Saturn/Uranus, Mars, Chiron, conjunct NN and Juno

I looove commitments. But then I get bored and get the "wandering eye." But I can't function without a boyfriend. I literally can not get out of bed some days when I was single. I haven't had at least some guy I've been dating since I was 16.

posted July 27, 2009 04:42 PM         

Your placements made my eyes open so wide from being frightened. I hope you're right when you say that it doesn't look as bad as it looks.

I have my fair share of square, but apart from a Vertex, SN/BML and NN t-square, I don't have any. I have plenty of simple squares though, as I said.

quote:

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I also have a terrible habit of seeing my partners as their best selves at all times.

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This is not a bad thing surely, but this depends on the severity, right?

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When I really fall for someone it's really dangerous to my psyche, because I truly consider that person to be my PARTNER in every sense of the word. I fall in love with their wounds and warts, and begin to hold them to the same standards I hold myself. When they f*** up (and I mean REALLY f up, not just forgetting to put the toilet seat down or whatever), it seriously destroys me.

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Venus in Pisces at its best, eh? I can't relate with this too much as my Venus is in Virgo. I can be detached easily, although I usually choose not to be. Being detached helps when it is time to run, leave, dump because you might never leave (if that's one's desire) if one still empathizes too much with the guy.

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Add my love for my son and my fear of bringing unnecessary drama into his life

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I admire this of you, BUT... if you have my problem, then be careful in case you use your son as a reason to be alone. Of course, I am not saying that you are doing this, but I only mention it since I wouldn't put it past me.

amwols - I'm the total opposite. I can't imagine being unable to get out of bed due to being single, but I can totally see it due to being "drained" by my partner.

I live in two places that are 1000km apart. One a city and one not. So, if I meet a guy in the city, for example, and we become an item... I usually run off to the coast to get away from them. as is the case now. (and visa versa) I'm so slippery and I have to have space. The weird paradox though is that I when I am still enjoying one's company, I want all of the person, their mind, body and soul. I am such a contradiction to the naked eye, but I make sense to me.

posted July 27, 2009 05:19 PM         

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i'm not a commitmentphobe but i fear greatly of who it is that i'm gonna fall for.

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I can totally understand that.

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it amazes me and makes me envious how people can find dates or go from boyfriend to boyfriend and i'm like stuck at step one.

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You're probably just more discriminating than most to jump from boyfriend to boyfriend. It's not a bad thing. Besides, you have no idea what motivates people who go from boyfriend to boyfriend. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I am just trying to show you that there is no need to be envious.

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i have lack of experience and i'm afraid the way people are these days, i probably am some sort of weirdo to them.

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Again, this is not a bad thing at all as some people love to teach, and maybe you are more suited to that type, the patient type that doesn't mind holding your hand through experiences.

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...i'm ready...

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quote:

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but on top of that, I very much am an old fashioned type of girl and i respect this kind of stuff and take it seriously.

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Funnily enough, having spoken about being a paradox in the post above, I am also traditional, and I do take commitment seriously, but I just can't do it in the traditional sense...

Arg! nevermind.

edit: e.g.

-I'm not into making the first move. I prefer the guy to do the chasing. It's not that I am incapable of the chase, but I have always said that my guy would be the type that chases.
-I'm into friendship first and sex much later. This doesn't mean I'm not sexual, but I have reigns on those feelings.
-I love, need, require and demand chivalry.
-I like being feminine, "the female", and being in that role.
and other things... as said in this thread called Cancer Mooners how do you love?

posted July 27, 2009 08:44 PM         

unmoved: thanks perhaps not envious that they can get boyfriends just like that but envious how they can find those opportunities. i honestly have only come across two, maybe three guys i've ever been keen on my entire life who returned the favor (not including school crushes) and that includes all the countries/cities i've lived in. so for those girls who can find boyfriend after boyfriend, wow that's awesome!

patience: i think i've learned i need someone who has major patience and understanding or is just like me in this arena. that i know for sure.

unmoved, i think i get what you're saying. just because you may be a commitmentphobe, it's not like you don't take this stuff seriously and fall on the traditional side of things. it's just the actual deal, you may not want it to be traditional.

how's this for weird? i'm a little freaked out about the whole having to share a room and bed for the rest of my life with someone. i still don't understand why a couple has to share the same bed. i slept in my own bed growing up. can't i continue to do so? when i lived in europe, they had beds in couple's rooms that split in half. i was like yeah i think that's more my style.

i need to be physically attracted to someone but i need for someone to be emotionally understanding and just be there to support me and vice versa even more so. maybe it's the gemini venus and moon in me that prefers the more friendship way of romance?

posted July 28, 2009 10:23 AM         

You know, maybe they actually are as scary as they look, but since they're mine and I've had them my whole life I can't really stress about it. I have no idea what it's like to be any other way and I just roll with the punches. Plus I can't complain, really- I've always been successful as far as attracting partners and have had plenty of long term partnerships, they just tend to end very, very badly. Of the 6 serious partners I've had (4 of them cohabiting), I'm only on good terms with two. 1.5 maybe- the relationship with my son's father is strained on and off.

I'd probably make the perfect mistress, if I didn't have so many genuine bonding tendencies (and strong personal morals).

Like you, even aside from my t-squares (I have two more also, Moon:Merc:Saturn and Moon:Merc:Pluto) my natal is dominated by squares, semisquares and sesquiquadrates. It is what it is. I've decided to think of it as intensive soul grad school

SN conjunct BML? Wow, Unmoved. How does that manifest in your life? Do you feel it at all, particularly how it relates to the T square?

quote:

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This is not a bad thing surely, but this depends on the severity, right?

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I think maybe it's unfair of me, in a way. No one can be their best self all the time, but when someone I love does something that's out of character or "beneath" them, I tend to call it out. Not meanly or aggressively, but pointedly. There are some people who find it motivating and inspiring, but just as many who lash out against it harshly.

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I can't relate with this too much as my Venus is in Virgo.

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I dated a VIV for years and our Venus energy was perfectly complimentary (opposition energy, I suppose, that yin/yang). He provided emotionally and was doting, but not smothering or possessive at all. I know Venus is supposed to be in it's fall in Virgo, but I've been close to so many and adored their energy so much that it might be my favorite placement for Venus!

quote:

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if you have my problem, then be careful in case you use your son as a reason to be alone.

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posted July 28, 2009 10:55 AM         

quote:

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I also have a terrible habit of seeing my partners as their best selves at all times. When I really fall for someone it's really dangerous to my psyche, because I truly consider that person to be my PARTNER in every sense of the word. I fall in love with their wounds and warts, and begin to hold them to the same standards I hold myself. When they f*** up (and I mean REALLY f up, not just forgetting to put the toilet seat down or whatever), it seriously destroys me. I take it to mean that they're apathetic toward or unappreciative of the love I'm offering them. Considering how hard it is for me to fall in love like that in the first place, the feelings of betrayal are so deep that it feels like someone's throwing me down a well.

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Wow, aerialcircus, I could have written this myself. I so know what you mean. That's why I've spent the last 17 years going out with people I don't love. It was a big step for me to start seeing someone I really care for, and it's such a head-f*** because I overanalyse, and am really intense and emotional. I would find myself exhausting if I went out with me.

posted July 28, 2009 11:07 AM         

quote:

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i'm a little freaked out about the whole having to share a room and bed for the rest of my life with someone. i still don't understand why a couple has to share the same bed. i slept in my own bed growing up. can't i continue to do so? when i lived in europe, they had beds in couple's rooms that split in half. i was like yeah i think that's more my style.

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Growing up with parents who didn't share a bed, sleeping in your own bed by yourself seemed like the most natural thing to me.
Sharing a bed with someone while trying to sleep was inconceivable.

Sag Sun, Libra Moon, Aqua Rising, Saturn in the 7th in Virgo, Jupiter in the 5th in Cancer

Then I fell in love and couldn't imagine not being able to hear him breathe, feel his tossing and turning before he can finally relax and fall asleep, see him sleep right next to me, tuck his blanket on the other side so he doesn't get cold, brush his hair off his forehead and see him open his eyes in the morning...

I've been called emotionally unavailable, cold, masculine, fickle, commitment phoebe, etc. and I've thought of myself in those terms and despaired until I met HIM.

posted July 28, 2009 04:42 PM         

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I would actually be happy if I married someone who agreed on living in separate houses if I ever got married that is.

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I've contemplated a similar scenario myself. Not necessarily another house, but certainly to each his and her own bedrooms...and NOT that you can't sleep together, but there's nothing wrong with sleeping options (especially if one has trouble sleeping). Of course I don't know how that would work in practice. I'm sure someone's bound to get their feelings hurt at some point if both partners are always there, and never sleep together when one of them wants to. As long as the affection is there and obvious, I can see it working alright.

_______________________

posted July 28, 2009 04:55 PM         

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I used to be committment phobic before my Saturn return (natal Saturn in the 7th), now I am not!

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posted July 28, 2009 05:26 PM         

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SN conjunct BML? Wow, Unmoved. How does that manifest in your life? Do you feel it at all, particularly how it relates to the T square?

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Peri would have a better idea. Actually, I wanted to know where your BML threads are Peri.

Now to answer you Ms Circus...

Seeing as Lilith was the rogue first wife to Adam who ran away from her husband, choosing a lonely life of solitude instead, and the fact that this point is Cnj SN and opp NN, it makes sense that I would feel more comfortable acting Lilith-like, although I am uncertain whether the archetype of BML is the same as just plain Lilith. So, my destiny (NN) is to be nothing like this, i.e Commitment-phobic. The fact that there is the Vertex in the mix could mean that this is probably the reason why I'm alive, to learn how to be comfortable in unions, or at least to find a way to be comfortable that suits me. I wonder... I really do...

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I dated a VIV for years and our Venus energy was perfectly complimentary (opposition energy, I suppose, that yin/yang). He provided emotionally and was doting, but not smothering or possessive at all. I know Venus is supposed to be in it's fall in Virgo, but I've been close to so many and adored their energy so much that it might be my favorite placement for Venus!

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Yes, I think it would be totally inaccurate to say that Venus in Virgo can not express love. It probably just means that we're not the most romantic, although I am quite the softy when I feel safe with someone. I am also glad to know that Venus in Pisces doesn't inspire conflict in Venus in Virgo. That's good to know.

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Do you have children also, Unmoved, if you don't mind my asking

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Yin~ then there's probably hope for me.

Peri~ Interesting! My SR will be in 12th so... I might get over the mental blocks I have considering this issue. 'Good to know.

AG~ I was discussing this with a friend and saying that maybe as a species we are evolving to another level of community which requires more space for self than is traditionally the case??

posted July 28, 2009 05:31 PM         

I also thought that i need to be friends with a guy first, but it was a complete failure all the time for me, because i had to realize that those guys who want to be just friends with you are either not interested in you romatically or they are commitment phobes themselves...

So i decided to change this attitude, and finally i had my first boyfriend at the beggining of the year...it lasted only 2 months, but i definetely learned a lot about myself.

And with my current bf, it was love at first sight and i was sleeping in his arms after knowing him for just one day! I never thought that it could happen with me cause one reason i also wanted friendship first in the past was that i had very hard time trusting in people i hardly knew... But the truth is, that you can feel from the first moment whether you can trust someone or not...

posted July 28, 2009 05:32 PM         

quote:

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You will snap out of it..

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I hope so.

posted July 28, 2009 05:42 PM         

ABC~ I've heard a lot of people express that fear, so it is common. So, it could be normal, but they say that "normal" is very different from "natural" and what's natural doesn't necessarily have to be "beautiful" or "inoffensive" so, your fears could be natural because we all have that survival instinct that makes us do almost anything to preserve the "self"... and it could just be that firing up.

We all have fears, as I have many, but they don't stop me from doing the very things that I fear. For me, the challenge is when I have no desire to be in a relationship. That to me makes me unable to go ahead with it, but fear has never stopped me.

posted July 28, 2009 06:12 PM         

Speaking about your SN/BML, I think this conj might mean that you are living the Lilith myth (and it hinders your spiritual growth since it is opposite your NN in Cancer): Lilith was the first wife of Adam. She was banished from the Garden of Eden when she refused to make herself subservient to Adam...Lilith refused to OBEY Adam or see that as her job as his wife. She saw herself as an equal not a dependant

I connect nodes with the past life karma so I'd assume you were unhappy in relationships in your past lives, you felt trapped and supressed, as if you were in a cage, and this is part of your psyche now and Saturn in the 12 adds to it, apart from being the planet of obligations and committment in the house of fear and restrictions, Saturn rules your SN and BML too!