posted July 24, 2010 06:07 PM         

nods

Pluto is associated with evolutionary intensification any way

but now, other transneptunian objects have been discovered

so we have more objects that are associated with evolutionary intensification

Eris could be further in the evolutionary process - dialectic process.

but where does Makemake and Haumea come in?

They are not much smaller than Pluto. Haumea was originally larger than Pluto,but a collision caused the loss of its ice to removed and resulting in its moons and independently orbiting objects called Haumeids. In mythology, Haumea's children broke off from her body. Astronomers gave it an appropriate name for it.

Where does Sedna come in with its greatest average distance and slowest orbit?

It would make sense for it to be associated with a further evolutionary process beyond that of all the other objects.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 24, 2010 06:07 PM         

Allegedly, L. Ron Hubbard, a former therapist, and Arthur C. Clarke, the noted author, were friends, and Hubbard bet Clarke that he could start a new religion. The anecdote concludes with him creating Scientology as a result. Again, we have not found specific evidence either supporting or denying that story.

posted July 24, 2010 06:22 PM         

I think of Eris much like Lilith only much more creative. Whereas Lilith seems more procreative, Eris seems more pro-creation... The chaos associated with Eris is very much analogy of the creative process... in bringing about order to chaos.
How do we go about that?? First by being collective and inclusive, rather than exclusive and selective... so the social aspect...hmmm perhaps it's a collective creative force then?

posted July 24, 2010 06:28 PM         

but much of the actual "stuff" of scientology has sound psycho/spiritual bases...like many other teachers he believed you needed to clear your negative garbage out and then your connection with the "divine" would be clear. hence the term "clear" from both the process and the result...

don't like the dianetics book though, or the group...i have known a few people who got into scientology and felt it helped them a lt but there was always a creepy vibe about the meeting places i did visit. and the "leaders" who one would hope would be at least a LITTLE clearer than neophytes were just weird fringey people. all of which is very off-putting. i don't have a problem with fringe-livers per se but some are just there because they don't "get" people and no one else will have them. this is scary and common in scientology i believe.

was he for real or a con-man? probably a bit of both. i don't doubt the "bet" story for a minute, though it could be apocryphal just as easily.

but that water trine could VERY easily signify a snake-oil salesman and no more. someone good at tapping into people's emotional yearnings and selling them salvation for profit.

posted July 24, 2010 06:47 PM         

Very cool. My Eris is sextile/trine Midheaven/Imum Coeli with 1'01 orb and sextile/trine Lunar Nodes (Eris/Node midpoint square Midheaven/Imum Coeli with 7 minutes of arc) and biquintile Mercury with 6 minutes of arc.
My Sun is conjunct/oppose Geocentric Eris Nodes with 10 minutes of arc. In my heliocentric chart,Venus-Jupiter trine Eris less than 3 degree orb and Earth is conjunct/oppose Heliocentric Eris Nodes with 10 minutes of arc. Therefore, I was born with a very strong Sun-Earth-Eris Node alignment. I am very connected to collective Eris energy.

"I think of Eris much like Lilith only much more creative. Whereas Lilith seems more procreative, Eris seems more pro-creation... The chaos associated with Eris is very much analogy of the creative process... in bringing about order to chaos."

That makes sense. Also Eris is an outer system object, and so it's generational and highly metaphysically oriented.

The asteroid, Lilith is located between Mars and Jupiter, and so it has to do with social matters.

Black Moon Lilith is the lunar apogee,and so it has to do with lunar matters.

"How do we go about that?? First by being collective and inclusive, rather than exclusive and selective... so the social aspect...hmmm perhaps it's a collective creative force then"

The heliocentric nodes of objects seem to be about the collective. The geocentric nodes of Jupiter and beyond seem about the collective. They are very slower moving than the outer planets and transneptunian objects.

I also think that the orbit of Eris has to be taken to account. It's a scattered disk object. It has a has a highly eccentric orbit. Half of its period, it orbits near Pluto. The other half of its period, it orbits far from Pluto. Therefore, it has a Persephone/Proserpina symbolic orbit which Michael Brown pointed out.

This is what Zane Stein wrote about Eris' possible evolutionary process.

Eris - Discord and the Dialectic Process
It appears that the philosopher Hegel saw the evolutionary stage that is beyond Pluto.

Hegel saw the dialectic between thesis and antithesis as a constructive process that leads to a higher synthesis.

There is a discussion of Hegel's ideas excerpted at:

www2.pfeiffer.edu/~lridener/courses/HEGEL.HTML

Quotes from this page:

"Dialectic is defined by Hegel as the power (or energy or force) of negativity."

"Dialectic is thus the transition of things, and of knowledge, from potentiality or abstraction to actuality and content, but in such a way that the arising of a fuller determination points beyond itself to a further determination. Every determination is both a result and a new beginning, concrete and abstract, for it occurs within a process of the becoming of a thing (or of knowledge), and hence is concrete relative to the origin of the process but abstract relative to the telos of the whole process. A thing becomes more and more fully developed through this successive dialectic of self-reconstruction."

So discord is part of a constant on-going dialectic process of maturation, of leaving behind one-sided viewpoints and partial truths. It shakes up the status quo and says that a more complete perspective is necessary.

The dialectic is a branch of logic in the art of reasoning and\or disputing. Through the use of it Socrates would lead his adversary to make clear his position on the subject, then, often with the introduction of an absolutely contrary theory, the discussion would end with an admission, on the other side, of an inaccuracy. It was employed to set one theory in opposition with another, and thus to develop a subject in a comprehensive manner. First an idea (a Thesis) was thrown up against another theory (an Antithesis); from this, it was thought, one would advance to a third stage, and the truth would emerge. Often, - though not necessarily - there would come about a combination of both the ideas (a synthesis). From this process, it is thought, one would arrive at the truth of a proposition; this is not to be confused with a negotiation process whereby, usually, a compromise is wrought out.

Henry Alphern wrote (in An Outline History of Philosophy):

"We must analyze everything into what it now is, then analysis will show that it contains its opposite, which in turn will have to be harmonized into something that includes them both. But the resultant synthesis will itself be subject again to a negative element, this then, will be resolved into a still more comprehensive synthesis, which will be subjected once more to the principle of contradiction. The final solution, the ultimate harmony, the last synthesis, the step when it will no longer be necessary to go higher, will constitute the Absolute. The Universe as a whole harmonizes all contradictions, it is the perfect whole, it is the synthesis which we are seeking as our final solution. It, therefore, constitutes the true, the rational, the goal of the dialectic method. The conclusion is that only the whole of reality is rational, because that furnishes a complete view of all things; it is the Absolute, the World, Reason, God."

Hesiod wrote that there were two different Eris goddesses. One of them, the daugher of Nyx (Night) stirred up healthy competiton. Think about the last good, stirring debate you watched. A discussion involving opposing viewpoints, first one side, then the other, at times perhaps getting quite heated. Didn't you come away mentally stimulated, perhaps with your own thoughts galvanized?

Competition comes from the Latin word competere, which means: to strive together, to coincide. The very basis of healthy competition is not to create enmity, but to strive together to come up with something better than existed previously. In a healthy competition, everyone benefits, no matter whoo wins.

President William McKinley was an indefatigable campaigner. He helped rebuild the Republican Party in 1896 by rejecting divisive ethnic issues and promoting pluralism--whereby every group in the nation would prosper and none would be singled out for attack. He once wrote:

"Without competition we would be clinging to the clumsy antiquated processes of farming and manufacture and the methods of business of long ago, and the twentieth would be no further advanced than the eighteenth century."

He was born on January 29, 1843, with Mercury approximately 27 Aquarius 18, closely conjunct Eris at 27 Aquarius 53.

Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey had a mind that quickly grasped complicated issues. He was instrumental in merging two opposing political parties (the Democratic and the Farmer-Labor party), and with their combined backing he was elected Mayor of Minneapolis. He gained a national reputation by his strong stand for civil rights. In fact, in one of the most renowned speeches in American political history, Humphrey told the 1948 Democratic National Convention: "To those who say, my friends, to those who say, that we are rushing this issue of civil rights, I say to them we are 172 years too late! To those who say, this civil rights program is an infringement on states' rights, I say this: the time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states' rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!" Humphrey and his allies succeeded; the pro-civil-rights plank was narrowly adopted. But not without causing strife! As a result of the Convention's vote, the Mississippi and one half of the Alabama delegation walked out of the hall. Many Southern Democrats were so enraged that they formed the "Dixiecrat" party and nominated their own presidential candidate.

He once wrote:

"Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."

Humphrey was born May 27, 1911. This gave him a Mars (25 Pisces 19) conjunct Eris (26 Pisces 39), both square Pluto (26 Gemini 53.) http://www.zanestein.com/Trans-pluto.htm#UB313

Here is Zane Stein's preliminary keywords.
They are not just based on Eris' mythology. It's based on it's orbital symbolism,and so it includes Persphone/Proserpina mythological symbolism. It also includes the dialectic process.

Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord; pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal, belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic; identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles; incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box; the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race intent.
http://www.zanestein.com/keywords.html#Eris

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 24, 2010 06:53 PM         

after disappearing, they called me every week for 4 years, asking me to carry on with their programs and inviting me to their events. I refused. They eventually stopped calling me about a year ago. A friend of mine who joined the church at the same time went through the program and I haven't heard from him since.

My strongest memory is that the vitamins and whatever they ingested made them have bad breath. Apparently this was part of the process of the cleansing. Yes, I asked them why they all had weird breaths.

posted July 24, 2010 06:58 PM         

""We must analyze everything into what it now is, then analysis will show that it contains its opposite, which in turn will have to be harmonized into something that includes them both. But the resultant synthesis will itself be subject again to a negative element, this then, will be resolved into a still more comprehensive synthesis, which will be subjected once more to the principle of contradiction. The final solution, the ultimate harmony, the last synthesis, the step when it will no longer be necessary to go higher, will constitute the Absolute."

combined with the Pluto/Persphone connection... it makes sense that if Pluto rules Scorpio, then Eris, next in line, rules Libra... judgement, analysis, the opposite of competition as one that sparks off competition in order to resolve itself.

"Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."

posted July 24, 2010 07:17 PM         

Astrologers gave Pluto a sign rulership, thinking it was the Planet X and large as our Earth as well as the only object in the transneptunian regions. Of course, they said "WOW...It's a new planet...it's name is Pluto, and that fits with the traits of Scorpio".

but now Pluto has lots of buddies that were never known about

I just don't see an object that orbits beyond Pluto ruling a sign like Libra.

Of course, I already see problems with Pluto (orbits beyond Neptune) ruling Scorpio which is a social watersign and Pisces being a universal watersign.

What about Pluto and Eris' fellow dwarf planets, Makemake, Haumea,and Ceres? They should be assigned sign rulerships if Pluto and Eris have sign rulerships.

Then there are also Sedna,Orcus,and Orcus to consider.

Orcus is very similar to Pluto as a plutino (2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune)and named after an Underworld deity

Maybe the outerplanets and transneptunians can be rulers of the zodiac signs' higher evolved states.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 24, 2010 07:30 PM         

asteroids have numerous classifications
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid#Classification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_family

some are referred to as trojans too

some trojans even orbit near Jupiter and Neptune

posted July 24, 2010 07:59 PM         

shrugs

I only have a Virgo Ascendant, and that's modified by a 2'10 conjunction to transneptunian dwarf planet Haumea.

I really don't think that it's about detail and analysis. Heck..I am very rightbrained in my thinking,and I have leftbrained weaknesses.

It's more about digging deep,getting below the surface, looking at multiple perspectives,considering new ideas and changing my views based on new discoveries as well as belief in Astrology progressing like I am one of the very small minority of Astrologers that agree with Pluto's demotion in Astronomy. I greatly diverge from mainstream astrologers. I believe as we advance more and more in the 21st Century, I believe that a 21st Century Astrology is needed. That especially includes the objects that were discovered in the 21st Century like Eris and other transneptunians that are dwarf planets and dwarf planet candidates. I think that's where my very strong transneptunian influence comes in. Examining me from a 20th Century astrological perspective would lead to overlooking major parts of my makeup. I believe that's the same with others that are strong in transneptunian energies.

I have a desire for a bridge between Astrology and Astronomy.
That's my being influenced by astronomically oriented Astrologers such as Philip Sedgwick who even wrote the book, Astronomy For Astrologers. That also could be where my very strong Eris influence comes in.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 24, 2010 08:12 PM         

For being a right-brained thinker you do seem to have a very ordered way of putting it out there, even though it is coming from creative out of the box thinking...

"I have a desire for a bridge between Astrology and Astronomy. "
I can see that... Originally that's how I started with astrology.

I took a few classes in astronomy and left it because the tutor ridiculed astrology when I asked him a question about it.
I wanted to understand even the makeup of the planet... what colours indicate what chemical etc. and see how that would apply to a planet astrologically and translate that in a chart... but it never worked out lol I didn't have the concentration for it either.

posted July 24, 2010 08:23 PM         

shrugs

That's called compensation

Special education therapies that included
Auditory therapy,speech therapy,phonics training,and motor skills therapy helped me develop the ability to process words,language. Before that, I was only a picture/visual thinker that had great difficulty processing words and language. Even now I am primarily a visual/picture thinker and secondarily a verbal/word thinker.

I try to think my words carefully before I speak,write,and type to minimize errors. That's my compensatory language processing strategies. After all, I want to avoid looking stupid and incompetent which was always my greatest fear which conditioned me to do my best to communicate in words as clearly as possible. It mirrors my time delay in understanding what people say,write,and type. I need extra amount of time for things to process before I can make a response to the person. Of course, I need to translate what people say to pictures. Then I come up with a response in pictures that I have to translate to words.

Mercury contraparallel Saturn and Mercury sextile Geocentric South Saturn Node can indicate that compensatory communication strategies. Retrograde Saturn in Gemini in 9th can be an indicator too.

Mercury parallel Neptune and Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint can indicate the visual/picture thinking that can involve confusion,lack of clarity with words and language. Neptune in Sagittarius in 3rd can be an indicator too.
Mercury square Makemake and biquintile Eris adds emphasis to the multidimensional thinking. Mercury sextile Geocentric South Pluto Node can too.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 24, 2010 08:30 PM         

You have mastered it... Just thinking about my schooling... 26-30 of us in one class, being taught the same thing by the same teacher, but we all had different strengths and weaknesses that we compensated for.
You are obviously highly intelligent and have an open mind and learned to communicate it... Some people never do!

posted July 24, 2010 08:43 PM         

I am just being honest and telling the truth.

Compensation is a fact of life for me. I do it every day. Without it, I'd be very incompetent and make lots of mistakes. It takes a lot of mental energy,and so it frequently leads to mental fatigue.

It's common knowledge that highly intelligent neurodivergents develop strategies to compensate for their weaknesses. It's usually based on their strengths. Of course, remediation therapies give them skills to help them compensate,and that depends on the severity of their weaknesses.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 25, 2010 12:27 AM         

I was in Scientology for over a decade. Thankfully, presently all of my family and myself have left.

We all woke up when the church started to enforce a "disconnection policy". A church directive that Hubbard wrote in order to keep the sheep in line.

In my case my family was told we could no longer communicate or see my 80 yr old grandmother who had once spoken out against the church & who had received a refund for services many years prior. And if we decided to go against the church we would be barred from receiving any services towards our "spiritual salvation". And if that isn't bad enough -- If any current church members of the church were to be in contact with any of us they would be disconnected as well. As we are considered "suppresive"(a term the church uses for anyone who openly disagrees or is critical of Hubbard, or current church management.)

posted July 25, 2010 12:52 AM         

The only think that I share with Scientology is a distrust in psychiatry and a strong belief in mental health human rights. A scientologist tried to use those things to get me involved.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement