posted July 26, 2010 08:15 PM         

"I meant understanding what he is trying to convey through silence!"
But what makes you so sure you know what he really means by saying that? Does he clarify it in the book?
If so maybe you could quote the passage, where he sais it more clearly, so we could get these "misunderstandings" out of the way.

"Cruelty is when you deprive or abuse a Childs basic rights!"
What are a child`s basic rights?
Isn`t communication with your mother a basic right, too?

"llowing and creating a space through silence wherein a child can re-evaluate and figure out what just happened is paramount to their own evolvement."
I agree. It is very important that a child has that space.
BUT it must not get the feeling that the silence is part of the punishment, that mom is not talking to him or her, BECAUSE they did something wrong. But that possible misunderstanding can easily happen if these things overlap timewise, the punishment (jeez, I HATE that word, childrens should not be punished!) and the silence, the child could easily mistake the paternal silence for a sign that an emotional or mental connection to their parents have been, at least temporarily, broken.
And THIS shoudl not happen imo.

"If you pile in and tell them what they've done wrong you take away all the magic and leave the lesson unlearnt."
Noone sais that should be done. But can`t you communicate with your child?
How about letting them explain why they did what they did, and then telling them how you feel about it, and why you feel it was "wrong", and then come to a solution?
This way the lines of communication would stay open and the bond of trust could stay intact.

posted July 26, 2010 08:18 PM         

I should have done that, too. And I do not even have strong Eris energy I think. lol

That is t he reason I stay out of the universal forum, but somehow it swapped over here, nad I actually have no idea how I got sucked in.

I think that should be my last post here, unless there is something astrological to figure out or interprete or something like that.

posted July 26, 2010 08:23 PM         

Using silence as a punishment or a weapon is a very manipulative and emotionally abusive behavior. It has nothing to do with HEART/LOVE. The child can understand it as "my parents won't like/love me and talk to me if I do not get what I did wrong" and feel rejected and unloved that may contribute to an insecure state of mind (in adulthood). Explaining things nicely and lovingly is definitely essential!

Amowls, LOL!!

posted July 26, 2010 09:45 PM         

some would say that about Mainstream Christianity and the Roman Catholic Church

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 26, 2010 11:46 PM         

"Parsons and Hubbard [Hubbard infiltrated Parsons breakway OTO group by orders from the US Navy who could have been interested in Mind Control techniques from OTO. Lets not forget that the Navy perfected 'primitive' forms of time travel in the Philadelphia Experiment, and initiated Project Montauk after Hubbard's debriefing and ofcourse after the Roswell crash. Humanity is given a direct clue in the film "Eyes Wide Shut" where a Naval Officer is Nicole Kidman's sexual programmer]

Will discuss the astrology of this dark act in 1946 Mojave Desert later on.

Hubbard gained great insights from his association with Parsons, and he may have jumped the gun in starting dianetics. There is a strong chance that he was reprogrammed by the now experienced MK Ultra Units to change Scientology into a systematic programming unit. The upper echelons of scientology speak of a science fiction style version of Gnostic Philosophy, but one that promotes fear than liberation."

posted July 27, 2010 02:17 AM         

First off, do you think a prophet of God/higher power would start off as a...science fiction writer?

Hubbard wrote many stories and novellas that were published in aviation, sports, and pulp magazines.[56]Between 1933 and 1938, Hubbard wrote 138 novels, both science fiction and adventure.[4] His first hardcover novel was published in 1937, titled Buckskin Brigades.[9] He co-wrote a 15-part movie serial The Secret of Treasure Island (1938).[9] Literature critics have cited Final Blackout, set in a war-ravaged future Europe, and Fear, a psychological horror story, as the best examples of Hubbard's pulp fiction.[57] Among his published stories were Sea Fangs, The Carnival of Death, Man-Killers of the Air, and The Squad that Never Came Back, which he wrote under numerous pseudonyms.[8] He became a well-known author in the science fiction and fantasy genres.[58] He also published westerns and adventure stories.[59] His agent at one time was the well known science fiction guru Forrest Ackerman.[60]

He has a grandiose sense of self and prone to gloating about his accomplishments...not giving the glory to a higher power but to himself:

Hubbard claimed that Dianetics could cure physical illnesses and increase intelligence.[76] In his introduction to Dianetics, Hubbard called his discoveries "a milestone for Man comparable to his discovery of fire and superior to his inventions of the wheel and the arch".[77]

Still with me? Good let's continue because this just keeps getting more interesting.

Consumer Reports, in an August 1951 assessment of Dianetics, called it "the basis for a new cult", noted its lack of modesty, and pointed out that it made generalizations without backing them up with evidence or facts.

Was a drug addict:

An unauthorized Hubbard biography also says that "John McMasters told me that on the flagship Apollo in the late sixties he witnessed Hubbard's drug supply. 'It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!'".[127] This was confirmed by Gerry Armstrong through Virginia Downsborough who said in 1967 Hubbard returned to Las Palmas totally debilitated from drugs.[128] His drug use appears to pre-date the 1967 accounts.[129] Hubbard claimed in a letter to his first wife that he had once been an opium addict. The last sentence of the letter reads: "...I do love you, even if I used to be an opium addict."[6] [130]

He was emotionally and probably physically abusive...

Around 1967 Hubbard formed the religious order known as the "Sea Organization" or "Sea Org", with titles and uniforms.[120] The Sea Org subsequently became the management group within Hubbard's Scientology empire.[121] He was attended by "Commodore's Messengers"; teenage girls who performed various tasks for him, such as fixing his shower, dressing him, and catching the ash from his cigarettes.[122][123] He had frequent screaming tantrums and instituted harsh punishments such as being confined to the ship's dirty chain-locker for days or weeks at a time, or being bound, blindfolded, and thrown overboard.[124][125] Some of these punishments were applied to children as well as to adults.[126]

Read more about this organization here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org

His wives both testify to his abusive behavior:
Hubbard was regarded as abusive by some family members and former associates. He married his second wife, Sara Northrup, on August 10, 1946, without revealing his existing marriage and children.[7][177] This was one reason for her later divorce from Hubbard. During those legal proceedings, Northrup alleged abuse by Hubbard, and produced a letter she received from Margaret "Polly" Grubb during the proceedings recounting her treatment by him.[7] It reads, in part,

"Ron is not normal… I had hoped you could straighten him out. Your charges probably sound fantastic to the average person—but I've been through it—the beatings, threats on my life, all the sadistic traits which you charge—12 years of it."

posted July 27, 2010 02:18 AM         

"officials were convicted in 1979 of conspiracy against the United States Federal Government, while Hubbard himself was named by federal prosecutors as an "unindicted co-conspirator."[134] At this time the IRS also had evidence that he had skimmed millions of dollars from church accounts and secreted the funds to destinations overseas.

PERSONAL QUOTES FROM THE MAN HIMSELF:
Publicly, Hubbard was sociable and charming.[153] Privately, he wrote entries in his notebook like "All men are your slaves," and "You can be merciless whenever your will is crossed and you have the right to be merciless." (those quotes are on several sites other than wikipedia)

If this wasn't enough to convince you what kind of man he was, let's examine the origin story of his religion that Scientologist desperately try to "sweep under the rug" and make light of. This should be a DEATHBLOW to Scientology once you see what a joke it is!!!(and this comes from someone who belives in extra terrestrial life as fact)

Xenu, also Xemu (pronounced /ˈziːnuː/[1][2][3]) was, according to the founder of Scientology and science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology dogma holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[1][6] Members of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story.[7][8]

These events are known within Scientology as "Incident II",[9] and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire or the R6 implant. The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that the R6 "implant" (past trauma[10]) was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) [sic] anyone who attempts to solve it".[10][11][12]

The Xenu story is part of the Church of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology",[9] normally only revealed to members who have already contributed large amounts of money.[13] The church avoids mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story's confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy.[14] Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public via court documents, copies of Hubbard's notes, and the Internet.

Admission of deceit:
What led Hubbard from science fiction writing to Dianetics and Scientology? Sam Moskowitz, a science fiction editor, claimed that Hubbard made comments to 23 members of the Eastern Science Fiction Association in 1948 about starting a religion to make money.[85] Lloyd Esbach recalls Hubbard making such a statement in 1948, made to a group of science fiction authors.[54] According to The Visual Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, Hubbard made statements to the effect that developing a religion or psychiatric method was an effective way to make money.[86] Harlan Ellison says that Hubbard told John W. Campbell that he was going to devise a religion that would make him wealthy.[87] After spending some time with Hubbard in 1951, Del Close claimed that Hubbard frequently complained about the American Medical Association and IRS, expressing interest in starting a religion.

+ Scientology = !

So...anyone not convinced yet that there is something SERIOUSLY wrong here?

Furthermore, here is a five minute video proving South Park was spot on with their episode making fun of the Xenu story and here Ron Hubbard on audio confirming the truths about this cult even though their own spokesperson LIES on CNN that this isn't part of their religion.

The lies are exposed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7EEOMbBIO8

This video single-handedly proves Ron to be either crazy if he believed this or a con artist. Either way, your "cult alarm" should be going off. This video tells you everything you need to know and Ron and Scientology.

Alright, I'm done.

posted July 27, 2010 03:56 AM         

The Sabian symbols for the degrees of the angles in his chart are truly creepy keeping in mind my belief of the true Ron.

The Ascendant:
Interpretation of the 20° Sagittarius symbolic degree
"In front of two intertwined triangles surmounted by a third one, a magus wearing his sacerdotal headdress utters an incantation."

Withdrawn, contemplative, and spiritual character endowed with powerful psychic powers. One revels in solitude and avoids socializing. Success and fame can be achieved in human sciences or in research. However, one is unlikely to become very rich. If the natal chart indicates dishonesty, this degree may describe a charlatan.

Jupiter, his chart ruler:

Interpretation of the 14° Scorpio symbolic degree
"A bear sleeping under a tree is surrounded by a swarm of bees."

Lazy, conceited, and fatalistic character. One has the mentality of a freeloader and does not hesitate to claim other people's work as one's own. One keeps the whole world responsible for one's misfortunes instead of learning the skills required for making a living.

His Midheaven:
Interpretation of the 13° Libra symbolic degree
"Masks, wigs, and other accessories meant for disguise are lain on a table below a mirror. Hidden behind drapes, a man and a woman spy on one another."

Shrewd, subtle, and manipulative character endowed with numerous gifts, including artistic and acting skills. One is capable of simulating a wide range of feelings in order to reach one's goals, both in the professional and the affective spheres. In most cases, one is driven by self-interest.

The Descendant:

Interpretation 21° Gemini symbolic degree:

"A man nonchalantly seated on a horse holds a bowl towards another man, carefree, and wealthy, who cleverly throws coins at him."

Superficial, anxious, and adventurous character. Should the natal chart concur, one can achieve fame and wealth in politics thanks to the support of powerful and devoted friends.

His Sun:
Interpretation of the 21° Pisces symbolic degree
"In a lavishly furnished room, a beautiful and scantily dressed woman bends over a sofa on which a man is lying asleep."

Depraved, sensual, and greedy character. Worldly assets are perishable goods. If one is only pursuing a life of pleasures and insouciance, one ends up finding that physical beauty is ephemeral, and that opulence can melt as fast as ice in the sun. Money and love affairs lead to debauchery and ruin. One must keep base instincts tightly reined in and absolutely avoid getting involved in activities linked to espionage, prostitution or procuring, and illegal drugs trade. This degree is dangerous for males and females alike.

He also has sun and mercury in third, which is why he had a gift talent for writing and speaking.

According to friend and colleague A.E. van Vogt, Hubbard wrote:

"...about a million words a year, straight on to the typewriter at incredible speed. My guess was that he typed at about seventy words a minute. It just poured out—I have seen typists working at that speed, but never a writer. I was in his apartment a couple of times when he said he had to finish a story and he would sit typing steadily for twenty minutes without a break and without looking up. That would have been totally impossible for me."[61]

Jupiter(his chart ruler) trining Neptune(his third house ruler) and Mercury(ninth house ruler) in the third only adding to the exaggeration, illusion, and drama of it all in his stories/religious doctrine.

Uranus conjunct Mars squared by Saturn showing the irritability and pent up anger waiting to explode. Like a cocked, loaded gun about to fall to the ground, and when it finally hits the ground and goes off there's no telling where the bullet will be headed to. This is probably why he was violent and had outburst of anger that was repeatedly reported.

posted July 27, 2010 05:01 AM         

Hubbard may have had many negative traits but he found something during his 1946 PsyOp that led him to complete the ritual with Parsons. He did not yield completely to the US Navy. I think he managed to raise his own Kundalini to a large extent but did not fully succeed. Dianetics is a typical evolutionary work of Kundalini in 5th and 6th Chakra. But if it does not clear 7th, then the individual can be captured and punished by the Archons/Establishment, and I feel he was "programmed" to believe in his own science fiction as a religion SO THAT THE NAG HAMMADI TRUTHS CAN BE SUBCONSCOUSLY RIDICULED. Xenu = Samael/Demiurge.

Notice the timelines:

Philadelphia Experiment: 1943. time jump to 1983 and back to 1963 [JFK Killing] and then 1943.

Mojave Ritual: 1946
Roswell Crash: 1947
Dianetics: 1949-50

MK-Ultra: Started by JFK killing conspirer Dulles in 1953.
Scientology "Church": 1953

So Dianetics and the Ron Hubbard pre-1953 is a different ballgame than Scientology post MK-Ultra.

posted July 27, 2010 10:47 AM         

I am former US Navy...Radioman 3rd Class (E-4), served for 7 years altogether.

I don't trust psychiatry either because of misdiagnosing my neurodivergence as bipolar,schizoaffective disorder without psychological testing. I used to consciously hate psychiatry for years. I even ****** people off when I talked about not only misdiagnoses but also racism in psychiatry and misdiagnosing and overdiagnosing Black people. I am part Black. My father was a Black man who might have been one of those statistics of Black Men being misdiagnosed as having schizophrenic. He was a neurodivergent man too.

One of my objectives for DNA nonprofit is psychiatric reform that includes psychiatrists to have their neurodivergent patients do neurological and psychological testing to prevent misdiagnoses and unnecessarily medicating with psychiatric medications that would be very harmful.

also

it's not like metaphysical,New Age things are recognized by psychiatrists

All of us would be viewed as schizophrenic or schizotypal by them.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 27, 2010 06:26 PM         

But to me this pic looks like someone / something is trying to LOOK human, without being it.
Strange thought though. Don?t know where that came from.

Anyway, he is not "in balance/ harmony". The outside does not fit the inside.

EDIT:
Of course I know how silly that sounds, and stupid, I was just voicing my instant (emotional and subjective) impression.

posted July 27, 2010 06:31 PM         

i dont get a good vibe by looking at that man+s face or eyes....im with DD and Zanarkand on that....actually he reminds me of J´s brother....something very fishy there...and im not being paranoid.

posted July 27, 2010 07:24 PM         

just giving an alternative perspective

I see people calling the kettle black

but man......I have been reading so much far-out stuff that it gets me wondering.......

why criticize Scientology?

posted July 28, 2010 01:25 AM         

I am very aware people would see my theories just as crazy as Scientology, but that's kind of an apples and oranges argument here. What I am getting at is Ron, the man who created Scientology. If you buy into Scientology at all, it exists because of this man and wouldn't have existed without him.

This man published 138 sci-fi novels before his other books which are seen as religious doctrine, beat and emotionally abused his wives, skimmed millions of dollars of church money to overseas bank accounts which the IRS had proof of, claimed he was going to start a religion to make him wealthy in front of many other authors, went before a judge who called him a pathological liar, created an organization with cruel and usual punishments for men and children being bound for days at a time, thinks that dianetics is equal to the invention of fire and surpasses the wheel and arc in mankind's discoveries, was a drug addict, wrote quotes like "all men are your slaves" and "you have the right to be merciless when your will is crossed" in his private journal. His origin story for his religion is 75 million years ago Xenu froze aliens, dropped them in volcanoes with hydrogen bombs, and exploded them thus creating the problems for all mankind as they attached themselves to us.

posted July 28, 2010 01:58 AM         

many people that don't believe in Astrology and other metaphysical subjects believe that Astrologers and others that work in the metaphysical people are frauds that take advantage of people of weak,vulnerable,suggestible,naive,gullible people with mental health problems and rip them off.

from others' perceptions and points of views, we can be viewed as just as nutty,controversial,deceptive,fraudulent,and controlling just like L. Ron Hubbard

btw I am not defending the guy
There is no way that I'd get involved in Scientology. I am just saying that how we judge L. Ron Hubbard is how many people who don't share our beliefs and practices judge us.
We have our religious,spiritual,ideological beliefs that intend to influence how we perceive others that have beliefs that differ from ours.

It's human nature for us to judge others because of their different beliefs.

Maybe Scientology has helped a lot of people just like Astrology has helped a lot of people. Same with other religious, spiritual systems. However, many people think all those things are harmful.

Many people believe that Astrology is a bunch of B.S. There are people that are into Astrology that think some astrological systems are a bunch of B.S. I am no that there are people who think Asteroid Astrology is B.S. let alone Reincarnational/Pastlife Asteroid Astrology.

That's how I think that many people with other religious beliefs are towards others with different beliefs.

Many Christians talk about how bad Islam is and they say how bad Muhammad was.

It seems that Lara sees Scientology differently from many people in this forum.

so perceptions of religious,spiritual beliefs are indeed relative

who knows

there could be Scientologists that are members of this forum

I just don't feel right criticizing other people's religions. For many people, Scientology is a religion.

Of course, I am not saying that nobody can criticize Scientology. I am just merely stating that I wouldn't.

I view my own religious,spiritual beliefs as controversial,"out there" as much astrologers when considering it from a perspective of a person who is into critical thinking and doesn't believe in what I believe in.

A lot of astrologers think Scientology is B.S., but I wouldn't be surprised about a lot of Scientologists thinking Astrology is B.S.
------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 28, 2010 02:25 AM         

somebody asked the following question:
Why do people insist on believing nosense like astrology, palm reading, psychic phenomenon, alien abduction, Face on mars and crop circles?

When the stories are solidly refuted, like the crop circle phenomenon, people insist that the hoaxes were just lying about their hoaxes!

Meanwhile hucksters write books and get honorariums for lectures espousing this nonsense. All for the money.

somebody answered:

Why do people insist on believing nonsense like Muhammed, Jesus, Ghosts, Holy Spirits, Angels, Demons, and Zombies?

Whats strange to you, is commonplace to other people. Religion is solidly refuted, constantly, but religious people never listen.

They believe whats in their heart. If someone believes in alien abductions, what should it matter to you?

Religion is all for the money. Its tax-free, and one of the largest businesses in the United States. Look at scientology, even though its clearly ******** , L Ron Hubbard made billions with it.

heck

posted July 28, 2010 02:44 AM         

Expert: David Rice - 7/9/2006

Question
Scientologists often beleive in ghosts, magic, witchcraft, former lifetimes, ESP, out of body experiences, levitation, and even bending/breaking spoons with superman-like x-ray vision. Just for fun, who among you have seen evidence to support any of these beliefs? Proof not required.

Answer
Hi! I have seen TONS and TONS of evbidence that the beliefs exist. :-) And yet never in my huge number of years lived have I ever seen any such beliefs evidenced. I spent over ten years studying astrology just to see if there was anything at all to it. I wrote my own astronomical programs; I wrote my own statistical database program; I wrote my own corrolation programs. I learned how to read natal charts, synastry charts, composit charts, solar return charts, natal progressed charts, noven lunar charts, even post-natal epoch charts. I studied 135 charts of HIV patients who died; I studied the charts of 1070 atomic bomb blasts and tests. I studied the charts of 200 suicide victims. After ten years and a hell of a lot of money spent on materials, conferesnces, and computer time, I came to the conclusion that there is nothing at all to astrology other than the will to believe it is valid. Ten years of very hard work. And what gets me is that thousands of other people before me had come to the same conclusion after studying astrologer, but I had to find out for myself. Now thousands of people AFTER me will do the same for themselves. I could no more take other experts words on it than the people after me will take my word on it. And you know, that's in a way a damn shame and in another was a good thing. The problem is, humans have been doing this for over 3000 years! When the hell are we finally going to say "It's ENOUGH! I finally conceed there is nothing to astrology!" The same holds true for every other ******** pseudoscience like iridology, "psychics," esp, Scientology, tarot card reading.... all demonstrated invalid a hundred thousand times. And yet people still try it just to make sure. Sheeeish. The average rating for this answer is 5. formerscientologist rated this answer a 5. I guess I didn't make myself clear. The subject is supernatural. Astrology is not supernatural. It is based on the stars. Yes, Astrology is a psuedo-science. I guess your answer is that even though you have seen lots of evidence, you don't have any first hand experience.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology-1751/Supernatural.htm

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement