posted June 29, 2011 03:58 AM            

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Originally posted by KarkaQueen:
....Why do I always seem to turn off sexist trolls? Rofl. I never get their attention to reply to me unless I say something really, really offensive.

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posted June 29, 2011 04:01 AM            

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Originally posted by Anemone:
Sheer stupidity (in reply to the topic title)
AstrologicalMan I salute you

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posted June 29, 2011 04:15 AM            

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Originally posted by AstrologicalMan:
sexist? ha. Against what? Men? No isms for me.

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posted June 29, 2011 04:15 AM            

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Originally posted by AstrologicalMan:
sexist? ha. Against what? Men? No isms for me.

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posted June 29, 2011 04:55 AM            

It was the war that changed the perspective of many (in regards to the role of women). Probably around the same time pluto was in cancer.

Some men do have negative views on what a woman's role is but there is an equal number of women who have a negative view on the man's role.

If you think that you can dismiss the power of the subconscious then you are effectively diminishing the role of the feminine. And also ignoring any of CG Jung's work (and a bucket load of others).

Responsibility is rarely a one sided affair and the victim/perpetrator myth is all about feeding disempowerment.

I disagree that people can't accept the fact that they may be living with a rapist. I think it's a far more uncomfortable idea that women actually do have more power than they think.

And yes the stranger in a dark alley is indeed a rarer event so what does no one openly address the dynamic that gets played out between these people that do in fact know one another?

There will never be humanism across the board as long as there are feminists in existence. If there's a metaphorical army there has to be an opposition...that's just life for you.

Many philosophers did not think that women were inferior. They generally blamed those in power and questioned societies antics. Most of them knew that the general population was quite mad and only a few were able to see it for what it was.

posted June 29, 2011 05:01 AM            

how can you say that we dont need a feministic movement anymore?! that’s much too selfish!

terminology is not the issue here, a feminist, be it a man or a woman, is a person who believes in and fights for the empowerment of women and in the fair treatment between both genders and he/she opposes the cultural implications/stereotypes given to women in the past, in particular those that insult/demine her value in the society..

are you saying there are no more stereotypes related to women, that no more people undermine the intellectual/physical strengths of women, that women are always treated fairly, that they have as much options as men do?

posted June 29, 2011 05:28 AM            

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women in different parts of the world are being oppressed based on their gender, women in a lot of countries don’t even have basic legal rights!

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posted June 29, 2011 06:39 AM            

the thing is since you havn't experienced prejudice against gender than maybe you dont understand the stakes, there are groups who fight for different causes, groups who fight for education rights, groups who fight against poverty, disease etc.. Feminist groups fight for all that under the title of empowering women, more empowered women in the under-privileged parts of the world can make a difference more than some money pumped into their corrupt economies..

posted June 29, 2011 08:19 AM            

Even though I am female, the place in time of my birth has privileged me to experience little, if any discrimination and I take a view that, if it does not cause me or the two people I care about, then it is not something to worry myself with.

I agree with the ethos of feminism. Women and men, being of equal worth, should be afforded equal rights and opportunities. However, I feel that in a good portion of cases I've seen, the way feminism is conducted is not healthy for either gender or society.

I do not feel anger or a sense of powerlessness in regards to the patriarchy. I think that that a patriarchal society, like most things, is capable of manifesting itself in positive and negative ways. I generally feel that the inclusion of women in the patriarchy is not detrimental and, at times, can be helpful to both women and men. I do not, however, see the patriarchy as evil or needing to be torn down, as I have gathered than many feminist I know feel. Some patriarchal systems may need to be mitigated for greater inclusion of all voices, but I see no reason why a matriarchy would be more or less healthy. I believe women are just as evil, power hungry, immoral, cold, greedy, etc. as men and putting them in positions of power will allow that to come out. Not to say that a woman does not have as much right as a man to be in a position of power, but aside from fairness, I do not think the world would improve if women were in control. I realize that many feminist do not wish to erect a matriarchy, but having recently had a debate with one that does, I'd like to express that.

Since I see myself as strong, confident, powerful, etc., I would like to believe that would shield me from any chance of rape. However, I have a sinking feeling that rape can happen to anyone, weak or strong, old or young, man, woman, or child. I do think that some women are more likely to put themselves in harms way, as are some men. Of course, that does not excuse the perpetrator from taking advantage of the situation. 98% of the time one will have some say in their victim-hood, I have often seen an individual choosing to be in a situation where they are victimized for various, often subconscious reasons.

One thing I have never gotten about the feminists I know is that many feel a sense of kinship with women. I am more of a loner, but I would be more inclined to say I feel more related and connected to men, even though I am quite comfortable in my femininity.

posted June 29, 2011 08:52 AM            

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"all things must end" as if the job is done and we should hang our hats, or as some would say aprons..

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You read things into what I said that I definitely didn't mean to imply. The job is not done.

I simply think "feminism" packaged as "feminism" has overstayed its welcome.. because it is no longer taken seriously and gives rise to debates such as the one here.

The other problem is there are several and sometimes conflicting branches of feminism, which has led to confusion.

I think the morals/ideology behind feminism should be packaged differently. I agree with dysfunctionalmystic:

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Feminism DOES still have negative connotations and if it didn't then how come a thread talking about feminism has to descend into a thread that talks about rape

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I refuse to spend time and energy arguing for a cause that sooooo many people out there misunderstand. I don't want to "explain" it to them. It becomes tiring to "explain" feminism.

posted June 29, 2011 03:33 PM            

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Originally posted by Pinkie&TheBrain:

For instance, a pretty girl who can get lots of favors by simply playing dumb may not seem like a feminist, but it's only because she may get what she wants the easy way, without acting like a feminist. lol.

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posted June 29, 2011 03:38 PM            

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Even though I am female, the place in time of my birth has privileged me to experience little, if any discrimination and I take a view that, if it does not cause me or the two people I care about, then it is not something to worry myself with.

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I live in one of the most liberal places in the states, but I still witness discrimination on women. Just last night I was with a group of guys and they were joking about how they might get ruffied if they leave their drink, and I was really annoyed because these are real things that women have to deal with constantly and men just make fun of it...

posted June 29, 2011 04:01 PM            

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Originally posted by vertiver:
No its how women are told to act through the media and our culture. Were supposed to be pleasing and sexy to men, yet at the same time its not the 50's anymore and most women are independent and no longer rely on men, so why should we have to look to them for validation?

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posted June 29, 2011 05:04 PM            

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Originally posted by Venus:
Betty i was talking about your comment that "all things must end" as if the job is done and we should hang our hats, or as some would say aprons..

the thing is since you havn't experienced prejudice against gender than maybe you dont understand the stakes, there are groups who fight for different causes, groups who fight for education rights, groups who fight against poverty, disease etc.. Feminist groups fight for all that under the title of empowering women, more empowered women in the under-privileged parts of the world can make a difference more than some money pumped into their corrupt economies..

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posted June 29, 2011 05:06 PM            

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Originally posted by vertiver:
No its how women are told to act through the media and our culture. Were supposed to be pleasing and sexy to men, yet at the same time its not the 50's anymore and most women are independent and no longer rely on men, so why should we have to look to them for validation?

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posted June 29, 2011 05:08 PM            

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Originally posted by dysfunctionalmystic:
It's a human instinct to look for validation. Necessary for psychological survival.

You can be as independent as you want but you still need people. We don't live in a vacuum.

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posted June 29, 2011 05:42 PM            

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Originally posted by AstrologicalMan:
or you can become what is validated. You can become The Creator and then people will look to you for what their idea of validation is. If you want the image of women to change, then stop the talk and go make it happen.

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No, everyone needs validation. People do come to me for their version of validation but it doesn't make me any less in need of it myself.