posted May 18, 2012 09:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
For what it's worth, my dad was the CFO of a Fortune 500 company at the height of his career. He worked overseas so that I spent my childhood summers in Geneva Switzerland, Frankfurt Germany, and finally (when he switched companies after 22 years), in Connecticut. It was fabulous getting to travel all over Europe but it also meant that my dad was absent for the day-to-day stuff. He was too busy making money to enjoy life, let alone to serve. He was offered a $1,000,000 salary to switch companies when he became eligible for retirement, and he declined. Became a minister instead. They offered him 2mil. He declined. He actually took off his $30,000 Rolex watch and handed it to this suicidal teenager so that kid would have tangible evidence that someone cares about him in the world and that he shouldn't kill himself. (He's also spoken to a gang member and gotten him to reform his life. He talks; people listen. His voice and manner are soothing). Today he lives on a mediocre pension and devotes his time to writing sermons (disagree) and helping people (agree). (Also disagree with helping people in exchange for their willingness to adopt your religion, but that's a topic for another day). I know too well that money is meaningless. Travelling was nice, but I would rather have had my dad around everyday like other kids.

So all in all, I agree with the people saying you can't take money with you. I've been a privileged kid; I've been homeless. At the end of the day, having enough to get by and loving, meaningful relationships are the most important thing. Believe that.

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Aquacheeka,

You lived in Connecticut?

My dad retired as CEO of a multibillion financial/real estate/hotel conglomerate. lol

posted May 18, 2012 01:56 PM            

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Originally posted by Lazyscarecrow:

I never understood the whole concept of one living beyond their means. Don't get me wrong, having "stuff" is nice and buying "stuff" makes you feel good, but it's always more important that everyone gets what they NEED.

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posted May 18, 2012 02:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazyscarecrow:
I never understood the whole concept of one living beyond their means. Don't get me wrong, having "stuff" is nice and buying "stuff" makes you feel good, but it's always more important that everyone gets what they NEED.
Most of the time, money is poorly spent anyways...or maybe I just watch too much TV.

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How do you define need vs. want? How do you define "living beyond means?"

The devil is in the details.

posted May 18, 2012 04:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Pure:
Exactly! If you have enough money to buy everything you need and want, why do you want MORE?...

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What other driver is there for people to improve and better themselves?.

I know some people will do inethical things, but if I get my daily loaf of bread everyday, what does it matter if I work harder or be more productive, I won't see an increase in what I receive.

I live in Ottawa, being a government town a lot of people who live here have insulated themselves from the real world. They have become uncompetitive, slow and inefficient in the real world. But they get there "daily bread everyday".

Just this year the federal government announced cuts to the public service and a lot of bureaucrats in town are s*hit o*t of luck because they have never learned to improve or be competitive in the real world.

When I was on my last year of college I was offered a permanent federal job. I started off as a summer student and I was offered to become permanent once I graduated.

I realized I could earn more, if get a second major or push for a masters degree.

I said no, realizing I would get no value out of that job and become uncompetitive down the road.

2 years later those people I worked with got canned.

posted May 18, 2012 07:02 PM            

I wouldn't want too much money. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably pay off student loans first and then save the rest up, with maybe a few small luxuries.

And, too, as for 'competition': I think that the points that have been made here about that are interesting.

I'd also say, though, that having too much money can also make a person less competitive. I'm thinking mainly of "trust fund babies" who have so much money (earned by their ancestors, not themselves) that they do not have to work, and who don't really do much with their time other than party and enjoy luxuries. However, I'm also thinking of people who have so much money that they can just buy their way into and out of everything, without ever having to go through consequences, learn lessons, or rebuild or anything. So, really, I can see it working both ways: that is, money can both motivate and de-motivate. The promise of more money can motivate a person to work hard, or it can lead to a person just throwing money at people whenever he/she does something wrong or else whenever he/she wants something, without having to work for it.

posted May 18, 2012 07:38 PM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Well, I'm the reverse. I place emphasis on gaining money/resources so that I can help others. I just completed a huge (for me) donation to one of my favorite charities, one from whom my own son was once a beneficiary. It also influences my political views, except in the other direction.

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Well that is very generous YTA. It is why we need all ends of the spectrum for life to balance out, eh?

That being said, I don't believe that all corporations/wealthy people/etc. are against people in general or are completely immoral or anything like that. I just am opposed to the ones who are all about quashing other individuals, essentially, by stealing, lying, and manipulating the system. There are people on both ends of the spectrum (wealthy and poor) who do that. Getting to the top isn't always about how much hard work and effort you put in, and staying on the bottom isn't always about how little work you are actually physically/mentally/emotionally able to handle.

posted May 19, 2012 01:18 AM            

And there have been plenty of little league games where the children understood far better than their parents that it was just a game, with parents being the one to have a hissie and even get violent over what happens in the game (a few even attacking coaches and referees, sometimes with weapons).

I know when I was 4 I cried as calves were strapped to a table and branded and cried even harder when my uncle told me it didn't hurt them because I knew he lied to me and that left me reeling as I trusted him completely until he said that. He was also upset and later served me burgers and after I'd eaten it told me it had been my favorite cow which he'd killed to teach me cows were livestock not pets. Being 4 I didn't understand and even said she tasted good, but after a few days of not finding "my cow" it sunk in.

Having shared that experience with others some have told me their of their own childhoods, like one who said when a hurricane was coming in his family had put the dog in the basement while they went for safety until the little boy ran into the basement and refuse to leave without the dog as he couldn't leave the dog abandoned to danger and he hurt thinking how alone and scared the dog would feel even if he came out of it ok. That is to say the little boy had more compassion and selflessness than his parents.

posted May 19, 2012 04:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
--I agree. I honestly think that a lot of Americans don't actually know the definition of "socialism". Around here, people have the same reaction to the word "communism". Socialism and communism are different, to be sure, but in the US, the words are used interchangeably as an insult.

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posted May 19, 2012 09:03 AM            

It doesn't help others when you're broke yourself.

You ladies are very idealistic but not so practical.

I'm a trust fund baby myself, but I don't want a penny of my dad's wealth. That's going to my grandchildren (yet to arrive), and of both my sons turn out to not want children or choose to be gay, it's all going to charity.

Hell, I don't believe in nepotism either. I didn't want the cushy executive job my dad gave me. I didn't want to marry my girlfriend whose father wanted me to be CEO of his manufacturing enterprise. I find my own opportunities my own way, and on my own timing.

I work damn hard to ensure the security of my family. Until I can take care of my own ass, how am I supposed to help others?

posted May 19, 2012 09:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
You can't donate a 100 unless you make 500 before taxes, because the government in totality takes easily half away in some form of taxes or another. (income, sales, real estate, capital gains, estate, etc)

It doesn't help others when you're broke yourself.

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I agree.

Personally, I think it's good to be in the middle: have enough money so that you don't have to worry about it, but not have so much that (a) you never have to worry about it/never have to worry about anything (I find it good to have to worry a little bit, as motivation, but not so much that it seriously stresses you out or to the point that your needs aren't met) and (b) it corrupts you in some way.

I tend to believe in moderation on a lot of things and dislike extremes in general, with only a few exceptions.

And, too, I think that it's good for idealism and practicality to work together. They need each other, really. Idealists need practical means to make their ideas work. Practical people could benefit from having a few ideals/higher goals/dreams, as motivation.

posted May 19, 2012 10:04 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I have a friend who likes baseball. So he books fields, form youth teams, equips all of them with equipment and uniforms, and attends all the games. Doesn't sound like anything more than little league, right? Except it's for special needs children: the disabled, the handicapped, the autistic and the overweight. Kids shunned from regular society. He loves kids. He adopted 12 of his own, plus 4 natural borns.

He arrives in Bentleys and Ferraris. Anyone like to slay his character? Wealth and possessions say nothing about character. The rich are not all evil. Trust fund kids with inherited wealth are not all lazy.

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True. And I didn't mean to imply that all are, so I apologize if it came off that way. I've just known some who have been that way, but certainly not all. Like one person I knew whose parents paid for a good college education, and who chooses not to work (or spend most of the time volunteering) and use it. It would be different to me if that person couldn't find a job--I know how THAT is--but this person took parental money and did nothing with it. If the person had paid independently and chose not to work, that would be different to me.

posted May 19, 2012 04:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
My own take on money is that it's good to have enough to save for a rainy day, take care of important stuff, have your basic needs met, enjoy some luxuries, and give some to charities/less fortunate people.

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That's exactly what I had in mind.

People do to you what you let them do.*(exceptions exist) Actors, politicians, corporators & bureaucrats are sitting on millions & millions of dollars because we let them. Let's get down to cloth production. Laborers in economically backward countries slog day & night through rain & storm but end up making so little money that they can barely make their ends meet. They come up with excuses such as fate & are mostly unwilling to bring about a change. We buy those very "brands" for hundreds & thousands of dollars EACH just because Angelina endorses them, most of which goes to the boss on the top.

I'm not against accumulation of extreme wealth in a few hands, as long as it's not through corrupt practices. They deserve it if they worked for it & what they do with it is their business. Charity is a matter of choice IMO. However, I'm against pauperization. I also believe that there are people who are below the poverty line on their own accord & deserve no charity. Take begging for an instance which has turned into business in certain countries.

Sun/Mars in Sagittarius in the 11th.
Mercury/Venus/Nnode in Sagittarius in the 10th.
Pluto in Scorpio in the 10th.
Jupiter in Scorpio in the 9th.
Uranus on the asc in Capricorn.
Saturn in Aquarius in the 1st.

I aspire to enter the political arena someday & have my own political ideology.
Form of government : Bureaucracy.
Economic system : Socialist

posted May 19, 2012 07:22 PM            

"...I find it so heart breaking that some people treat the people that I work with as throwaway people (forgetting that they themselves are always one car accident away from quadriplegia or worse). I am socially liberal, a spiritualist, and a feminist, and very much opposed to religious zealotry and greed running our country. I fall pretty far left, but I do believe in regulating businesses/wall street. There is a reason that the government has a checks and balances system, and I believe that corporations and businesses need this as well, otherwise all they do is exploit the very people they are supposedly working for."

posted May 30, 2012 12:49 AM            

As far as America, left or right, they are two wings on the same diseased bird, two sides to the same coin and as long as people continue to expect or hope for change along this false dichotomy, no change will ever occur.

One should become familiar with the Hegelian Dialectic as politics, and really, almost everything in this world, is based off of it. It is amazing how this concept is used to guide people in pre determined directions. Almost nothing at all happens by chance! But, familiarize yourself with Hegelian dialectic!

posted May 30, 2012 12:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
in Connecticut.

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posted May 30, 2012 09:06 AM            

hmm guess im more Authoritarian than i thought i was..

posted May 30, 2012 09:14 AM            

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Originally posted by carl:
where in CT?

I grew up in the god forsaken state, hated it. Going back, as an adult, it is not so bad and quite peaceful. I find myself missing it for the quiet it brings.

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posted May 30, 2012 10:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Alyona goes into all of this a lot.

And just in case you haven't heard of it I thought I'd recommend a book for you that I think is still relevant today (and you should be able to ILL--Inter Library Loan-it from your library if your library doesn't already have it):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket

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!!!

Smedley Butler is buried in my hometown! Gotta visit his grave one of these days.

posted May 30, 2012 10:35 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Faith,

My wife and I do care, except that we hold the opposing viewpoint.

I came out from the 82nd Floor of Two World Trade Center on 9/11/2001. I had 10 minutes to spare or I would have been dust in some Staten Island landfill.

From that point onwards, my wife had no sympathy for the opposing force. I never did have empathy for the pissant terrorists. And felons nauseate me. I just as well see them locked up.

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YTA,

Respectfully, I don't believe it was just terrorists.

Please research The Project for the New American Century. They would have gone to war no matter what.

posted May 30, 2012 10:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by carl:
Politics are merely a diversion and division tactic(s) to get the masses arguing amongst each other while the major events happen behind their backs and behind closed doors. In other words, it is a dog and pony show.

As far as America, left or right, they are two wings on the same diseased bird, two sides to the same coin and as long as people continue to expect or hope for change along this false dichotomy, no change will ever occur.

One should become familiar with the Hegelian Dialectic as politics, and really, almost everything in this world, is based off of it. It is amazing how this concept is used to guide people in pre determined directions. Almost nothing at all happens by chance! But, familiarize yourself with Hegelian dialectic!

Politics as they are presented to us now = scam, just for show. I don't subscribe to any side or cheerlead for any of those filthy crooks or the true monied *power* behind them.

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posted May 30, 2012 10:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
YTA,

Respectfully, I don't believe it was just terrorists.

Please research The Project for the New American Century. They would have gone to war no matter what.

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Faith,

posted May 30, 2012 02:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by carl:
Politics are merely a diversion and division tactic(s) to get the masses arguing amongst each other while the major events happen behind their backs and behind closed doors. In other words, it is a dog and pony show.

As far as America, left or right, they are two wings on the same diseased bird, two sides to the same coin and as long as people continue to expect or hope for change along this false dichotomy, no change will ever occur.

One should become familiar with the Hegelian Dialectic as politics, and really, almost everything in this world, is based off of it. It is amazing how this concept is used to guide people in pre determined directions. Almost nothing at all happens by chance! But, familiarize yourself with Hegelian dialectic!

Politics as they are presented to us now = scam, just for show. I don't subscribe to any side or cheerlead for any of those filthy crooks or the true monied *power* behind them.

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