posted July 19, 2014 02:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercurian Intellect:
din't read the whole article

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You should have because you assumed too much. It's not that "guys are only nice if they want sex" it's that some guys can't see a woman as anything else while pretending to be nice and give her anything she wants and then get bitter because that didn't get him sex. Which isn't nice at all, anymore than women are pleasant (or even seductive) just to get their way when they drop them after they've gotten what they want.

One self-proclaimed "nice guy" said outright on the internet that he refused to help a woman move a couch into her home because he knew she wouldn't have sex with him for it, and thus "taking advantage" of him purposefully (implying she was obligated to have sex with him if he did anything nice). He's convinced he's nice, however, while bitter at women for rejecting him for reasons obvious to me that don't have anything to do with how "nice" he thinks he is (and thus he has Nice Guy syndrome rather than a genuine nice guy).

Genuine nice guys (which are not the same as Nice Guys™) don't care if they're "friend zoned" (wouldn't even use that word), they're nice for the sake of being nice. Fake nice guys are just being manipulative, including by being nice, which is called "game" rather than "nice" (as if women were vending machines that should give you sex because you put in "nice tokens" and then angry when the woman you've mistaken for a vending machine doesn't "put out"). At best it's a sense of undeserved entitlement that turns bitter when he doesn't get what he's really after, rather than genuine kindness or caring for her as person. And genuine nice guys don't go around saying how nice they are, either, it's not necessary as their actions (not to be confused with "I give her what she wants and she gives me what I want or I get upset") say it for them.

posted July 19, 2014 05:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
You should have because you assumed too much. It's not that "guys are only nice if they want sex" it's that some guys can't see a woman as anything else while pretending to be nice and give her anything she wants and then get bitter because that didn't get him sex. Which isn't nice at all, anymore than women are pleasant (or even seductive) just to get their way when they drop them after they've gotten what they want.

One self-proclaimed "nice guy" said outright on the internet that he refused to help a woman move a couch into her home because he knew she wouldn't have sex with him for it, and thus "taking advantage" of him purposefully (implying she was obligated to have sex with him if he did anything nice). He's convinced he's nice, however, while bitter at women for rejecting him for reasons obvious to me that don't have anything to do with how "nice" he thinks he is (and thus he has Nice Guy syndrome rather than a genuine nice guy).

Genuine nice guys (which are not the same as Nice Guys™) don't care if they're "friend zoned" (wouldn't even use that word), they're nice for the sake of being nice. Fake nice guys are just being manipulative, including by being nice, which is called "game" rather than "nice" (as if women were vending machines that should give you sex because you put in "nice tokens" and then angry when the woman you've mistaken for a vending machine doesn't "put out"). At best it's a sense of undeserved entitlement that turns bitter when he doesn't get what he's really after, rather than genuine kindness or caring for her as person. And genuine nice guys don't go around saying how nice they are, either, it's not necessary as their actions (not to be confused with "I give her what she wants and she gives me what I want or I get upset") say it for them.

And btw, plenty of genuine nice guys don't have a problem having girlfriends or getting married. It's the fake ones who go on about how nice they are when they're just manipulative who make sure to tell everyone how nice they are, in part because no one else really recognizes him as sincerely nice.

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posted July 19, 2014 10:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
You should have because you assumed too much. It's not that "guys are only nice if they want sex" it's that some guys can't see a woman as anything else while pretending to be nice and give her anything she wants and then get bitter because that didn't get him sex. Which isn't nice at all, anymore than women are pleasant (or even seductive) just to get their way when they drop them after they've gotten what they want.

One self-proclaimed "nice guy" said outright on the internet that he refused to help a woman move a couch into her home because he knew she wouldn't have sex with him for it, and thus "taking advantage" of him purposefully (implying she was obligated to have sex with him if he did anything nice). He's convinced he's nice, however, while bitter at women for rejecting him for reasons obvious to me that don't have anything to do with how "nice" he thinks he is (and thus he has Nice Guy syndrome rather than a genuine nice guy).

Genuine nice guys (which are not the same as Nice Guys™) don't care if they're "friend zoned" (wouldn't even use that word), they're nice for the sake of being nice. Fake nice guys are just being manipulative, including by being nice, which is called "game" rather than "nice" (as if women were vending machines that should give you sex because you put in "nice tokens" and then angry when the woman you've mistaken for a vending machine doesn't "put out"). At best it's a sense of undeserved entitlement that turns bitter when he doesn't get what he's really after, rather than genuine kindness or caring for her as person. And genuine nice guys don't go around saying how nice they are, either, it's not necessary as their actions (not to be confused with "I give her what she wants and she gives me what I want or I get upset") say it for them.

And btw, plenty of genuine nice guys don't have a problem having girlfriends or getting married. It's the fake ones who go on about how nice they are when they're just manipulative who make sure to tell everyone how nice they are, in part because no one else really recognizes him as sincerely nice.

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I didn't feel like reading the whole thing, I was getting annoyed by it because it wasn't me, but I supposedly fall into it because I'm one of those guys that people would assume because of how I view relationships and how to am with a girl I like. Just like amowls did with aquaguy by recommending the link to him.

But I actually am nice to everyone I meet. They don't have to be a girl I like for me to be "nice" to them.
I'm not like the supposed "nice guys" that you're referring to.
And just because I say I'm a "nice guy", doesn't mean I'm not. I see how I am compared to other people, therefore, I can make a statement like that. I'm very accepting of people and try to make them feel at ease because I want them to feel good about themselves. I want them to feel that they can be themselves around me.

posted July 19, 2014 12:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by starrynight:
A little bit of an opposite example but here's two guys who are most understanding, feminist in a good way, full of respect, etc, etc

Guy 1:
Moon trine Venus
Moon has zero harsh aspects
Moon sextile Mars
Venus square Neptune

Guy 2:
Aries Moon (yeah despite stuff said here)
Moon has zero harsh aspects
Moon widely trine Sun
Moon trine Jupiter
Venus square Jupiter

Two cases do not a statistics make, but it's interesting to see that both guys have natal Moons with several trines and sextiles to personal planets and no harsh aspects whatsoever, while the same can't be said about Venus.

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I too know a great guy with moon in aries and sun in aqua.....he is honest and never hurt me in any way and we are friends and use to be more than that for a bit. Great guy; his moon conjuncts mars and is packed with trines and sextiles. His venus and mars trine widely by 10 orbs and form a grand trine with my venus and mars conjunction.

His venus squares jupiter but conjuncts uranus, saturn, and neptune, His venus trines widely his moon by 10 orbs.

posted July 19, 2014 12:38 PM            

Most verbally abusive man I've known, and know, is a:

Leo Sun, Venus, Mercury
Aries Moon, Jupiter
Aqua Mars
Virgo Pluto
Libra Uranus

He would call women, and me, cu**....bit**.....slu*.....stupid cow/bit**/who**.....etc etc etc

I find some Aries Moons to be less refined than the Suns and very, very childish to the point where they have mommy-issues.

I think Aries Suns are just PURE, earnest energy. Like the Sun was meant to shine.

posted July 19, 2014 12:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
All men hope for sex deep down it's just a matter of how they channel that energy and accept the fact they might not get any.

Most verbally abusive man I've known, and know, is a:

Leo Sun, Venus, Mercury
Aries Moon, Jupiter
Aqua Mars
Virgo Pluto
Libra Uranus

He would call women, and me, cu**....bit**.....slu*.....stupid cow/bit**/who**.....etc etc etc

I find some Aries Moons to be less refined than the Suns and very, very childish to the point where they have mommy-issues.

I think Aries Suns are just PURE, earnest energy. Like the Sun was meant to shine.

Also, Aries Venus' and Mars'...conjunct......they have issues. They are very often just lost little babies.

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I disagree.

I've turned down sex opportunities several times and no, they were not hideously unattractive swamp donkeys. Sex without love to me is very passionless, mechanical, and simply pointless. I'd much rather just do it myself.

posted July 19, 2014 01:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I disagree.

I've turned down sex opportunities several times and no, they were not hideously unattractive swamp donkeys. Sex without love to me is very passionless, mechanical, and simply pointless. I'd much rather just do it myself.

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Fair enough. But it might not have stopped you from HOPING.

posted July 19, 2014 01:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
Fair enough. But it might not have stopped you from HOPING.

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But why would I turn it down if I hoped?

Case in point a little over a year ago this woman gave me a ride home after having a few drinks. I didn't have my license due to speeding. She wanted to use my bathroom. Then when she came out she asked me something about something in my apt. When I walked over she thew herself on me.
But I said no.

posted July 19, 2014 01:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
But why would I turn it down if I hoped?

Case in point a little over a year ago this woman gave me a ride home after having a few drinks. I didn't have my license due to speeding. She wanted to use my bathroom. Then when she came out she asked me something about something in my apt. When I walked over she thew herself on me.
But I said no.

If I were hopeful, why wouldn't I follow through?
Doesn't make sense.

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posted July 19, 2014 01:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
All men hope for sex deep down it's just a matter of how they channel that energy and accept the fact they might not get any.

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Nope.

posted July 19, 2014 02:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
One can separate one's thinking into categories. It's called idealism where the dreamer is being subjected to realism which doesn't nearly come close and therefore the hope will remain just that.

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posted July 19, 2014 03:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sand:
I think I can be an abuser, cheater, misogynist given the right circumstances for them to occur but there is always free will. Misogyny isn't always hate or mistrust. It could be objectification and such.

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That's deep, dude. Much Wisdom.

posted July 19, 2014 06:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
You should have because you assumed too much. It's not that "guys are only nice if they want sex" it's that some guys can't see a woman as anything else while pretending to be nice and give her anything she wants and then get bitter because that didn't get him sex. Which isn't nice at all, anymore than women are pleasant (or even seductive) just to get their way when they drop them after they've gotten what they want.

One self-proclaimed "nice guy" said outright on the internet that he refused to help a woman move a couch into her home because he knew she wouldn't have sex with him for it, and thus "taking advantage" of him purposefully (implying she was obligated to have sex with him if he did anything nice). He's convinced he's nice, however, while bitter at women for rejecting him for reasons obvious to me that don't have anything to do with how "nice" he thinks he is (and thus he has Nice Guy syndrome rather than a genuine nice guy).

Genuine nice guys (which are not the same as Nice Guys™) don't care if they're "friend zoned" (wouldn't even use that word), they're nice for the sake of being nice. Fake nice guys are just being manipulative, including by being nice, which is called "game" rather than "nice" (as if women were vending machines that should give you sex because you put in "nice tokens" and then angry when the woman you've mistaken for a vending machine doesn't "put out"). At best it's a sense of undeserved entitlement that turns bitter when he doesn't get what he's really after, rather than genuine kindness or caring for her as person. And genuine nice guys don't go around saying how nice they are, either, it's not necessary as their actions (not to be confused with "I give her what she wants and she gives me what I want or I get upset") say it for them.

And btw, plenty of genuine nice guys don't have a problem having girlfriends or getting married. It's the fake ones who go on about how nice they are when they're just manipulative who make sure to tell everyone how nice they are, in part because no one else really recognizes him as sincerely nice.

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Looking for the lies in these statements, none are to be found!

posted July 19, 2014 07:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:

I hate the "nice" guys/girls arguments so much because you have nailed it right on the head. I always say that if you have to tell someone you are nice you really aren't. People will know you are nice and if you have to convince everyone of this, well there is your first (of probably many) red flag.

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Not necessarily true.
You would have to online because that person doesn't know you (unless you had a considerate amount of interaction with them online, then they can probably tell); they don't know if you're nice, mean, etc. So you will have to let them know how you view yourself.

Also, if someone were to ask you what you thought of yourself, and they ask "Do you think you're nice or not nice?" (won't even include mean), what would be your answer? If you say you're nice, you're pretty much doing the same thing, except this time, there was a question directed at you, rather than having to get it out there yourself if the person doesn't know you.

(Your answer should be (according to your logic) "I don't know, you would have to ask my friends (or family, or at least people that know you) that question about whether I'm nice or not nice." to say the right thing).

Saying someone isn't nice just because they say they're nice is hilarious, and doesn't prove anything.

posted July 19, 2014 07:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
Looking for the lies in these statements, none are to be found!

I hate the "nice" guys/girls arguments so much because you have nailed it right on the head. I always say that if you have to tell someone you are nice you really aren't. People will know you are nice and if you have to convince everyone of this, well there is your first (of probably many) red flag.

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posted July 19, 2014 07:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercurian Intellect:
Not necessarily true.
You would have to online because that person doesn't know you (unless you had a considerate amount of interaction with them online, they can probably tell); they don't know if you're nice, mean, etc. So you will have to let them know how you view yourself.

Also, if someone were to ask you what you thought of yourself, and they ask "Do you think you're nice or not nice?" (won't even include mean), what would be your answer? If you say you're nice, you're pretty much doing the same thing, except this time, there was a question directed at you, rather than having to get it out there yourself if the person doesn't know you.

(You answer should be (according to your logic) "I don't know, you would have to ask my friends (or family, or at least people that know you) that question about whether I'm nice or not nice" to say the right thing).

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I'm all things (depending on the other person)
Nice, sweet, friendly, mean, indifferent, mature/immature, etc etc.
Handsome, sexy, attractive, ugly, nasty, weird, stable or unstable etc etc.

posted July 19, 2014 07:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercurian Intellect:
Not necessarily true.
You would have to online because that person doesn't know you (unless you had a considerate amount of interaction with them online, then they can probably tell); they don't know if you're nice, mean, etc. So you will have to let them know how you view yourself.

Also, if someone were to ask you what you thought of yourself, and they ask "Do you think you're nice or not nice?" (won't even include mean), what would be your answer? If you say you're nice, you're pretty much doing the same thing, except this time, there was a question directed at you, rather than having to get it out there yourself if the person doesn't know you.

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Not really. People will assume the answer is "nice" (whether you are or not).

And it's pretty much missing the forest for the trees. Those with Nice Guy Syndrome don't wait for someone to ask before promoting themselves as such and believe that because they're "nice" (when they're just manipulative) is why women reject them as they see it as something wrong with women rather than themselves. And it's also ridiculous in that genuine nice guys can be in relationships (unlike most fake nice guys with Nice Guy Syndrome), though there are women who reject genuinely nice guys, but I don't know why a genuine nice guy would restrict themselves to pursuing such women anyway (since such women themselves generally aren't nice).

posted July 19, 2014 07:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by amelia28:
Great guy; his moon conjuncts mars and is packed with trines and sextiles. His venus and mars trine widely by 10 orbs and form a grand trine with my venus and mars conjunction.

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posted July 19, 2014 07:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Not really. People will assume the answer is "nice" (whether you are or not).

And it's pretty much missing the forest for the trees. Those with Nice Guy Syndrome don't wait for someone to ask before promoting themselves as such and believe that because they're "nice" (when they're just manipulative) is why women reject them as they see it as something wrong with women rather than themselves. And it's also ridiculous in that genuine nice guys can be in relationships (unlike most fake nice guys with Nice Guy Syndrome), though there are women who reject genuinely nice guys, but I don't know why a genuine nice guy would restrict themselves to pursuing such women anyway (since such women themselves generally aren't nice).

Interesting enough I've seen self-proclaimed "nice guys" actually insult genuine nice guys as "whipped" and such. Such people are nice only in their own deluded minds.

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Yeah, I know. If I asked that question to anyone, 9/10, people will say they're nice.
But that wasn't the point I was trying to make there.

Just because someone says they're nice, still doesn't mean that they aren't since they are saying they are.
I still don't understand how this proves that they must not be nice. I'm sorry if I'm missing your point.

Not every person is the same when it comes to that. Like you said, you seen self-proclaimed "nice guys" insult genuine nice guys. Well those supposed "nice guys" have proved that they must not be nice then. Now that doesn't mean all guys that say they're "nice guys" are the same.

And just in case you think I don't agree with your initial/main points, I do. I admit, I should have read the whole article before assuming things. It's just, that article was irritating me because other people "assume" that I must truly be like them "nice guys" deep down. Which in reality, I'm not. I might say I'm a nice guy like them, but this doesn't mean I'm like them. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove I'm nice, nor not nice. Only my actions will after

posted July 19, 2014 08:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I'm all things (depending on the other person)
Nice, sweet, friendly, mean, indifferent, mature/immature, etc etc.
Handsome, sexy, attractive, ugly, nasty, weird, stable or unstable etc etc.

I want to be nice. I try to be nice but it's not always the case.
Yesterday this woman at work made kind of a small talk joke. I just said, "yep" and then silence. We just stood there in awkward silence. I thought, "she probably thinks I'm a cold butthole but there's been too much silence now. Oh well" lol

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posted July 19, 2014 08:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mercurian Intellect:
Not necessarily true.
You would have to online because that person doesn't know you (unless you had a considerate amount of interaction with them online, then they can probably tell); they don't know if you're nice, mean, etc. So you will have to let them know how you view yourself.

Also, if someone were to ask you what you thought of yourself, and they ask "Do you think you're nice or not nice?" (won't even include mean), what would be your answer? If you say you're nice, you're pretty much doing the same thing, except this time, there was a question directed at you, rather than having to get it out there yourself if the person doesn't know you.

(Your answer should be (according to your logic) "I don't know, you would have to ask my friends (or family, or at least people that know you) that question about whether I'm nice or not nice." to say the right thing).

Saying someone isn't nice just because they say they're nice is hilarious, and doesn't prove anything.

It's not like I'm going around everywhere saying "Hey, just to let you know, I'm nice... well, see ya around!" Haha.

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You unfortunately missed my point. I'm not talking about online dating or running around asking people whether they think you are nice or not. I'm talking about people who constantly proclaim they are nice and play the victim when in reality they are not. I still stand by my point, you shouldn't have to proclaim/justify you are nice if you really are nice.

I'm referring to people who suffer from the Nice Guy/Girl Syndrome. People who shout from the rooftops how nice they are and how unfair it is that the opposite sex treats them badly. But in reality, have themselves to blame for their dating problems. People who oversimplify ideas as to why women/men aren't flocking to them in groups. The same whiners who are manipulative and self-serving.

People who get angry when you friendzone them: "I have sexual needs, how dare you reject me!" Claiming you know everything about the opposite sex when in reality you can't even have a conversation with one. Having a sense of entitlement because you 'deserve' it more than your peers.