posted October 14, 2012 03:41 PM            

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Originally posted by sweet-scorpion:
I always take the main persona charts into serious consideration to get that deeper insight into a person when I do an astrological reading. Just like you said, sometimes the natal chart may not be enough to dig deep with a client or see the true inner romantic, emotional and creative component to someone's self.

I see the natal chart as our core identity - but it doesn't necessarily include the deeper components beyond the smaller fragments, wouldn't you say? It shows our Venus is in Scorpio, for example, but we're only seeing the surface of that Venus and never looking into its layers. It could very well have 3 Pisces planets and a 4th house emphasis, showing a very sensitive and sentimental Venus, one you couldn't necessarily see based on the Scorp Venus label of femme fatale and vindictive siren. To me, this is why Persona charts are truly useful. They show us what a planet's individual identity is away from the natal chart influence, and what it brings to table in that natal chart beyond the label of its sign + natal aspects.

For example: In my Moon persona, the Moon falls in Taurus showing I can be earthy and creative... but it's in the 12th house, showing that in childhood I felt emotionally repressed and like my mom was not always there for me. You don't necessarily see this in my natal chart Moon. My persona chart's Moon is also opposition Mars in Scorpio, which shows the more volatile and unpredictable side to my emotional nature that you wouldn't be able to predict with my natal.

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posted October 14, 2012 03:45 PM            

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Originally posted by ueharaa:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ail221:
[b]Venus, Mars and Moon chart should be taken in consideration for synastry I think

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posted October 14, 2012 03:47 PM            

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Originally posted by Maelstrom:
Wow! Interesting post, until now I have never heard of this before, it actually blows my mind a bit to be honest...by the looks of mine my Pluto persona seems to be the most "loaded" - Uranus, Mercury and Venus in 8th house Scorpio, Leo Mars and an Aries Ascendant!

Although I have been interested in astrology since late childhood, I feel this may be beyond my understanding some what - could someone give me their interpretation of that Pluto set up?? Or is everyone as confused as me...?? ;-D

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quote:

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Originally posted by earthypisces:
Holy crap, in my Pluto persona chart, all of the personal planets are in Sagittarius...what would that mean?

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Honestly, I am still trying to understand how it works and how it plays out. As fascinating as I find them to be, I am having a very hard time just processing how they could manifest. It is even harder for outer planets persona chart, because I tend to view those in the natal chart as "outer factors influence" and not as a part of ourselves we own.

I'm going to try and find some more info on them.

posted October 14, 2012 03:55 PM            

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Originally posted by ail221:
My sun and Moon are both Gemini/libra in my Moon and Venus chart emotionally that explains my attraction to Air signs. With a leo stellium in the Venus chart.

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posted October 14, 2012 04:20 PM            

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Originally posted by ueharaa:
Do you find that your relate more to fiery/airy type and get on well better with them?
Do you think there should be huge differences between the moon, venus and mars persona charts if you're a man or a woman in terms of who you're attracted to or how they play out?

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I relate more to fire/air types with a bit of water or earth in general. Within my Moon, Venus and Mars persona charts there are constants; Jupiter in Leo, Saturn in Aquarius,Uranus in Capricorn and my Juno the marriage asteroid is on the cusp of Capricorn and Aquarius.

posted October 14, 2012 04:25 PM            

For example, how can my steadfast taurus moon have such a fiery persona (as well as all the Aries action it has a 5th house sun and a Sag ascendant!) Surely that's a contradiction in itself? I identify far more with this fiery Moon persona chart than I do the textbook Taurus moon description. How can this steady, slow reacting taurus moon have such a vastly different persona?

posted October 14, 2012 06:13 PM            

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Originally posted by vickymadness:

w-aa-o-o-W!

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@Ueharaa and Vickymadness

posted October 15, 2012 10:10 AM            

I too have a Taurus moon and find myself to be much more...expressive.. than this stable earth moon placement would suggest. I've often wondered why, and even tried chalked it up to my natal Leo ASC, Aries Venus, and Sag Mars. The moon persona chart makes MUCH more sense.

My moon chart has an ASC of Leo and the moon of the chart is in Leo. The Sun is trine mars and quincunx Uranus. I'd bet that Uranus quincunx has quite a bit to do with why my mood can change at the drop of a hat. And the Leo connections make sense in that I respond to anything that hurts me emotionally with haughty, holier than thou, how dare you offend me attitude lol

I don't think it completely rules out your Taurus moon though. This is basically like giving a person who only knows their Sun sign an interpretation of their Rising sign. They're still their original Sun sign, but realize they have some added flavor through the ASC. Same with this. You're still a Taurus Moon, you've just got a Taurus Moon with Sag *edit*(and aries) influences.

posted October 16, 2012 05:02 AM            

That's a great idea I bet it would reveal a lot. You could even compare between different persona charts.

Say in natal synastry, I have venus sextile venus, but I want to know the inner workings of that aspect... Persona chart synastry! Now I know exactly how my Aries Venus relates to my fiance's Aquarius Venus.

You could then use it to cross compare all aspected planets with their persona charts..which is what i'm about to go do

posted October 16, 2012 05:07 AM              

Personally I find them very valuable, and esp. the Moon-persona chart is interesting for me, as I have the EXACT same Sun/Moon-combo, just reversed to my birth chart.

natal chart (or Sun-persona chart ).
Sun: 25.56 Sagittarius
Moon: 17.06 Aquarius

Moon persona chart:
Sun: 17.06 Aquarius (naturally per definition)
But also
Moon: 25.28 Sagittarius

Exact same degrees.

Personally I find the comparision between Moon and Saturn persona chart in synastry very interesting (sor of like the "practical, earthbound soulmates").

I think IQ uses persona charts in his synastric analysis occasionally as well. At least he did so in one of my synastries.

Also for someone who believes in past life stuff, the SN-chart is pretty interesting.
And of course the NN for your spiritual path.

I kinda like looking at mine. lol

posted October 16, 2012 05:27 AM              

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Originally posted by ueharaa:
[B] I find this quite unsettling somehow. It makes me question how/why the moon persona chart can be this preeminent.

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I think it is because the Moon is our emotional memory, it`s all stored in there.
Very receptive.

Our resonance might depend a little though on its links to the natal. I could imagine if there were just no conjunctions to the natal, we might not necessarily develop the awareness of our Moon chart. But that is highly hypothetical, I donīt know it for sure.

WEll, I relate to my Moon persona chart for sure:

-MP DESC conjuncts my natal Venus exact (and Isis-Osiris-conjunction)

- Mp Sun is of course conjunct Moon, but that is the definition of a persona chart

- MP Moon is exactly conjunct natal Sun

- MP NN is exactly conjunct natal ASC

- MP Venus is exactly conjunct natal Ceres and also conjuncts natal chartruler Jupiter

- MP Mars is widely conjunct natal Venus (5 degrees)

posted October 16, 2012 05:29 AM              

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Originally posted by ueharaa:
t is even harder for outer planets persona chart, because I tend to view those in the natal chart as "outer factors influence" and not as a part of ourselves we own.

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I agree with you.

However, they become very personalized, if you view them as representatives of the houses they rule.
Pluto rules my 12th house and it makes very much sense to me.

posted October 16, 2012 05:32 AM              

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Originally posted by Maelstrom:
A thought just occured to me.....surely if the moon has it's own persona then it kind of renders the original interpretation obsolete?

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Not at all. The Persona chart may show the deeper layer, but the Moon still operates as yuor natal Moon as well.
If you can`tr elate to the Taurus Moon I am sure there are other configurations in your natal explaining this.

Besides, the natal signplacement still comes out in the PErsona chart as well, in the position of the Persona Sun of this chart.

posted October 16, 2012 05:37 AM              

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Originally posted by LionFish:
I've often wondered why, and even tried chalked it up to my natal Leo ASC, Aries Venus, and Sag Mars.

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No "chalking up". So much fire of course will take the cake.

What I want to stress is that both, natal and Persona charts are all very much "in effect".

As a matter of fact our natal chart is nothing different than the persona chart of our Sun.

I could imagine though that the moon Persona chart relates to a deeper emotional layer, maybe feels closer to our "soul-nature/type".

The Moon in our Sun-Persona chart (natal) might highlight the emotional identity of our expressive side or SElf (or however you call the Sun).

Our Moon persona chart on the other hand describes everything in our nature against the backdrop of our emotional core/ soul/ (or whatever you call the Moon).

So I guess especially the Moon in the Moon persona chart might be closer to a "pure emotional type" than the Moon in the Sun-persona chart could be (as there the moon would just describe the emotions in relation to our conscious Self).

posted October 16, 2012 06:21 AM              

Playing around with persona charts.
And did - by accident- the persona chart of my name in someone else`s chart.

posted October 16, 2012 08:54 AM            

So I guess especially the Moon in the Moon persona chart might be closer to a "pure emotional type" than the Moon in the Sun-persona chart could be (as there the moon would just describe the emotions in relation to our conscious Self).

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted October 16, 2012 09:12 AM              

My MP chart has ASC on 6 Cancer - a MOON-ruled ASC in the Moon persona chart! (and my natal Venus is on 6 Cap).

my SP has ASC on 8 Cap - a SATURN ruled ASC in the Saturn persona chart, and conjunct my natal Venus.

My SP chart actually has a stellium in Cancer (Sun on 16.57 Cancer, Saturn on 21 Cancer, Mon on 25 Cancer)

However, my MP Chart has Saturn in 1st house - opposing Mars in Capricorn in 7th house, but also trine Venus in Pisces in 10th house

- Sun-Mercury conjunction in Aquarius in 9th house sextile Chiron - defnitely emphasized the analytical theme of my chart, and describes how analyzing becomes not just a means for healing, but is an emotional need of mine

- Venus in Pisces in 10t house square Neptune goes a long way to explain the romanticism in relating to others especially in a relationship-way (much more than Cappy Venus - though I feel both is part of my Venusian-make up). And it is xactly squinkunx Pluto in 5th house , reemphasizing the Venus/Pluto-theme, since Venus squares Pluto ntally

posted October 16, 2012 10:07 PM            

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Originally posted by ueharaa:
thank you, this a great explanation. I see what you mean by only seeing the surface.
I wonder how much the persona chart weights compared to the natal chart and how to put them together.

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You're welcome!

posted October 16, 2012 10:24 PM            

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Originally posted by LionFish:
@ail221

That's a great idea I bet it would reveal a lot. You could even compare between different persona charts.

Say in natal synastry, I have venus sextile venus, but I want to know the inner workings of that aspect... Persona chart synastry! Now I know exactly how my Aries Venus relates to my fiance's Aquarius Venus.

You could then use it to cross compare all aspected planets with their persona charts..which is what i'm about to go do

Maybe this is the reason why some "harsh" aspects work and some don't..the inner workings.. I'm intrigued

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