posted December 13, 2013 07:03 PM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
There will be no 'slvt shaming' in a thread where I'm around

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And there will be no "asexuality denying" in a thread while I'm around. At the very least I'm not going to stand by why you claim they're just schizoid and/or abused and/or with a wrecked ego, especially not when you then apply double standards by saying you won't stand for **** shaming.

What you described is true for YOU. But you are not me nor anyone else and others are different from you however hard that is for you to imagine.

It's not unknown for someone who was sexually abused as a boy to seek out encounters with gay men to repeat the circumstances in trying to work it out (and there's even a LL member who said she explored lesbianism to deal with past sexual abuse by a man) but that doesn't mean that therefore the vast majority of gay men or lesbians are simply trying to work out past abuse, that's very rare. Likewise, sexual anorexia is also real, but so is true asexuality. Not everyone is who asexual or demisexual is "pathological." Just because you were doesn't mean everyone else is.

posted December 13, 2013 07:21 PM            

Where're your credentials to say you know any more than I do? Oh, you don't have them? Well, I'm surprised.

And done.

You guys have fun being narrow-minded, and / or unable to debate an issue.

For the record, if you're asexual, from a clinical standpoint, you are either on the schizo spectrum (typically schizoid) or have a history of abuse, or a sex-negative attitude from childhood, hence, sexual anorexia.

Anything else is something else. Disagree with me, but you're in the minority that's largely just uninformed.

posted December 13, 2013 07:32 PM            

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Those of us asexuals, or demisexuals, or so forth, out there ... the right conditions, the right 'one', the right time

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Well for demisexuals.. there are several right ones. It's almost inbuilt in the definition. Have you read about it?

For me it's as simple as this...

I just typed in "hot naked man" in google search... and picked out a pic at random.

Lets take this pic (because it's more PG-rated than the others lol):

I see that and I think - He is good looking. He has a nice body. He's aesthetically pleasing.. But there is nothing about that photo that makes me feel h*rny.
And that goes for all the other photos.

So I feel like I relate to the description of demisexuality.

posted December 13, 2013 07:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
You're right, Pixie. I'm just a sexual anorexic with a history of sex abuse who's on the schizophrenic spectrum and a practising therapist. My mistake.

Where're your credentials to say you know any more than I do? Oh, you don't have them? Well, I'm surprised.

And done.

You guys have fun being narrow-minded, and / or unable to debate an issue.

For the record, if you're asexual, from a clinical standpoint, you are either on the schizo spectrum (typically schizoid) or have a history of abuse, or a sex-negative attitude from childhood, hence, sexual anorexia.

Anything else is something else. Disagree with me, but you're in the minority that's largely just uninformed.

And that's all I'm saying on that as I hate both pointless arguments and dealing with those starting them.

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How is it in your mind that you're being the open minded one when you're the one who dismisses everyone who ever claimed to be asexual or demisexual as mentally ill? That does not make sense. You're the one uninformed here, and I'm not going to tolerate your offensive & ignorant comments against asexuals anymore than I would of those who said that gay people were also mentally ill or damaged.

posted December 13, 2013 07:37 PM            

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Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. Affected individuals may simultaneously demonstrate a rich, elaborate and exclusively internal fantasy world.

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posted December 13, 2013 07:41 PM            

It is as simple as:

Does this make me h*rny or not?

For asexuals often no one makes them feel that way.
They just don't feel like having sex. They don't want any.
I'm not sure how else I could put this in any simpler way.
The. desire. is. just. not. there.

posted December 13, 2013 07:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Well for demisexuals.. there are several right ones. It's almost inbuilt in the definition. Have you read about it?

For me it's as simple as this...

I just typed in "hot naked man" in google search... and picked out a pic at random.

Lets take this pic (because it's more PG-rated than the others lol):

I see that and I think - He is good looking. He has a nice body. He's aesthetically pleasing.. But there is nothing about that photo that makes me feel h*rny.
And that goes for all the other photos.

So I feel like I relate to the description of demisexuality.

I haven't been traumatised or sexually abused or anything else.

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I honestly think what's being called 'demisexual' is HEALTHY sexuality. Our culture is obsessed with sex for a number of reasons; largely because of a huge per centage of sex addiction.

An otherwise healthy teenage girl might feel aroused from the photo - but that's a huge might, as women in general aren't visually aroused. (I say 'general' as there are certainly exceptions: high-T, for one.)

But most healthy women past say, age 20, whose hormones are levelling out, won't be aroused by such an image. They'll go, 'ooh, he's hot,' at most - and move on. If they're in love at the time, they might contact or engage their partner, just being reminded of the very concept of sex, as demonstrated in a photo of a naked man.

There are a LOT of variables. And even more that confounds the findings we are lucky enough to acquire. It's a never-ending process, but there's been some real progress made, thankfully, in the last decade especially.

posted December 13, 2013 07:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
I just read the definition for schizoid on wiki

I generally like most people and like engaging, forming friendships and acquaintanceships. I rarely feel like I have a genuine problem with someone but when I do I distance myself. I don't have a solitary life and I'm not emotionally cold lol So it doesn't suit me.

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Out of curiosity, do you fall anywhere on the schizophrenic spectrum, Odette? If not, it could be biochemical. We don't call that asexual as much as we consider it 'secondary asexuality' - a state, rather than a personality, if that makes sense?

Just like diagnosing SPD is different from someone who's been traumatised and is in a schizoid state. It's mechanism.

posted December 13, 2013 08:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Look Indigo - This is much more simple for many people.
It's not so complicated.

It is as simple as:

Does this make me h*rny or not?

For asexuals often no one makes them feel that way.
They just don't feel like having sex. They don't want any.
I'm not sure how else I could put this in any simpler way.
The. desire. is. just. not. there.

For demisexuals - They get h*rny because of the connection and the storyline (only if/when it's the right kind of connection to spark such feelings).. but not due to the other person's actual appearance or physicality.

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Asexuality is not normal. Period, paragraph. And - AND - if you think I haven't had HUGE issues with that, then you didn't know me 3 years ago.

As to demisexuality, again, I think THAT is healthy. We SHOULD be experiencing sexual desire in connexion TO connexion. To CONTEXT.

Now does that mean primal sexuality is, at its core, dysfunctional? It might be! We're learning that the way we relate - or CAN relate now, in civilised society - whether an adaptive process or something else - is generally healthier - evolutionarily-speaking.

That doesn't mean sex addicts are expressing a 'lesser' form of sexuality; it means the context has gotten screwed up somewhere. Skinner Box. The impulse is driving a need that's long since been disconnected from the original desire. That's how we get kink, too.

Anyway, it's fascinating stuff. Least I think so.

But SEX fascinates me. The having it? Meh. But, like I said, I'm a recovering sexual anorexic. It's nice. I don't feel sexual very often, and it's ALL context, but it's better than it was. I didn't even know there was a problem, outside of the lack of interest or desire. So I spent a long time trying to 'be normal' and that didn't work.

I'd urge anyone who has anhedonia for whatever reason to not try and make other people happy by engaging in sexual things. Recipe for disaster. Be who you are. If, some day, you'd like to know what it's like to be sexual, dig in to a little more of what makes you tick. You may uncover a lot, or find that there's nothing there outside of neuro-chemistry.

But that's just from the POV of a recovering sexual anorexic. Sure, I'd give the same advice professionally, but as a person ... it's a little like the film Pleasantville. I had NO idea what the world was like in colour - until I started seeing shades of it.

My world is still largely black and white. Grayscale. But I'm encouraged. I still flip-flop between truly caring less, and the necessary 'whatever' just not being there: brain chemistry? Context? Mood? Other dominating stresses? Used to be anything and everything was more important than sex - except studying it. (Obviously.) It's still mostly that way, I'll be honest.

posted December 13, 2013 08:05 PM            

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But most healthy women past say, age 20, whose hormones are levelling out, won't be aroused by such an image. They'll go, 'ooh, he's hot,' at most - and move on

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That's interesting because I also thought for a really long time - that all my female friends were exactly like me.. but then I realised they were more sexual - and also that men often misinterpreted where I was coming from.

Many men and women date for some time and then have sex. That time is usually weeks or at most months.. and they usually date *because* they are sexually attracted to each other.
So the average man or woman can actually *feel like* they are sexually attracted to another... and that they want to have sex with that other person, much sooner than I ever have (purely based on the others' physical appearance).

This ^ has never been my pattern. When it comes to the men I desired to have sex with and did have sex with - the pattern was:
- I met them.. got to know them.. became close friends with them... realised I was attracted months later - or actually years later in one case.. 1-2 yrs and then things turned sexual between us gradually.

This is because the psychological connection, once formed - is what turns me on sexually.
The actual appearance of those guys - their physical naked body - does not spark in me an impulse to have sex.

posted December 13, 2013 08:09 PM            

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Asexuality is not normal. Period, paragraph. And - AND - if you think I haven't had HUGE issues with that, then you didn't know me 3 years ago.

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I don't even assess things on a "normal to abnormal" scale - when it comes to this.

I'm happy with things as they are. Basically - if it's not broken - don't fix it.
That's my philosophy.

posted December 13, 2013 08:10 PM            

quote:

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Out of curiosity, do you fall anywhere on the schizophrenic spectrum, Odette? If not, it could be biochemical.

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posted December 13, 2013 08:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

How is it in your mind that you're being the open minded one when you're the one who dismisses everyone who ever claimed to be asexual or demisexual as mentally ill? That does not make sense. You're the one uninformed here, and I'm not going to tolerate your offensive & ignorant comments against asexuals anymore than I would of those who said that gay people were also mentally ill or damaged.

And I didn't diagnose you, I used your own words to describe yourself that you then asserted were true of everyone else. (ETA: Which I've seen you've now deleted.)

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I'm going to say this one time, and one time only, PixieJane.

I deleted my prior posts because I always intended to. I'm not going to leave that sort of personal information out there when it involves the private lives of others. I'll share information to make a point; leaving it out there makes me uncomfortable. I've no issue sharing my own experiences - but I draw the line after that.

posted December 13, 2013 08:17 PM            

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Long post coming up.... You guys don't have to read this unless you're interested. It's not about asexuality in general.. but just how it *applies* to me... Or actually how demi-sexuality applies to me.
I wanted to dispel some myths.
Here it goes............

1. I’m physically healthy – I don’t ‘lack’ anything lol

2. There has never been a situation in my life…where a guy asked me out and I said “yes”.. and then told him: “Gee - Can we wait until we get to know each other better – before we have sex?” - I’ve never had this conversation with a man in my life - Nor will I ever have this conversation.

3. Basically I don’t do the dating thing. My relationship have started out as friendships and we met in a setting where I got to know the guy well before things turned romantic between us. I didn’t have to explain myself to him at all. It just seemed normal in that context whether it was at school or university or through work or through a sport I played… It seemed normal that we’d hang out first as friends (rather than date).

4. If a stranger tries to initiate something with me by asking me to go on a date with him (if this is how he approaches me) – I usually decline right away. I don’t even consider it, because a person who immediately turns things romantic couldn’t understand me.. and I don’t want to have to explain things over and over. If I dated someone like this – I know they’d expect sex sooner rather than later.. and I don’t want my sexuality to turn into someone else’s challenge.

5. The lack of desire (“primary” desire as they refer to it in that article) does not at all affect my level of being sexually passionate with a person, when we do have a strong emotional connection.

The only man I’ve had a desire to have sex with in the past years is the Leo guy I’ve mentioned a few times here - because I am in love with him. I can be very sexually passionate towards him.. I know my sexuality well and my turn-ons and turn-offs… I’m not inhibited sexually. It’s just that it very rarely happens that I would meet and get to know someone whom I actually desire to have sex with. It’s only happened twice in my life. Leo is the second. My Libra ex I mentioned - who I went out with for 2 years (I cared about him, but I only had sex to make him happy.. not because I had a desire to).

6. My lack of attraction has no connection with the amount of people I meet. I go out. I meet many new people!! I just don’t feel this way. It takes me such a long time to feel this way about someone.

7. I am not at all repulsed nor scared of sex. I am simply disinterested.. Exactly as per the demi-sexuality definition: “The demisexual experiences sexual attraction and desire, but only towards the specific partner or partners."
That’s me ^

I remember Regardes saying she had fears regarding sex and how it might affect her health. I don’t have these fears – because you can get sick in so many different ways. You can have accidents in many settings. Sex is no more dangerous than anything else. We are not living in 3rd world countries. We do have the pill available and condoms… so this isn’t an issue for me.

Nor do I have any psychological hang-ups about sex. Lets say I absolutely ‘had to’ sleep with a stranger… Lets say the faith of the world depended on it (just for argument’s sake!).. This wouldn’t psychologically scar me (unless he was a jerk!! lol)… I would just feel very disinterested and not turned-on – but the thought of it doesn’t bother me.

It’s a bit like the feeling when you’ve had a meal and you are full… so you wouldn’t go out and buy something else to eat.. But if a friend bought you a chocolate cake – you might still eat it, so as to not be rude! (lol I realize this is a dumb analogy but I can’t think of any other way to explain it)
It’s that feeling of “I don’t feel like eating this at all… but it won’t kill me to have some – if I absolutely must”.

8. I think maybe the whole asexuality or demi-sexuality orientations (if they are orientations) might be seen as something that makes a person ‘cold’ and detached.
I’m not a cold person. This is only a sexual disinterest. I have so much respect for other people and I really like everyone as they are. I’m kind of Aquarian when it comes to this (My Sun&Venus are in the 11th).

Also, this is not at all an ego trip for me. I’ve heard people say things like: “Oh I don’t care if she’s good looking… I still wouldn’t go there!” to sound cool… or “Looks aren’t everything!”… or there are those who heed dating advice about how you should lower a good looking person’s self-esteem… so that they get more interested.

I personally think all of this is a load of CRAP. I think everyone deserves to be treated nicely and with respect completely regardless of their appearance.
For instance – when I said earlier that I would see Jude Law as a beautiful statue… I don’t mean for this to be depreciative to Jude Law. He’s a person with his own good points & bad points. I think he has awesome acting skills and I’m sure there are many things about him I could like personality wise if I ever met him. But on a purely sexual level.. it’s just not there (unless I’m very close to that person).

Ok! phewww That's it. End of long spiel.

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posted December 13, 2013 08:29 PM            

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The fourth and final dating type has become one of the most popular throughout the country. It is commonly known as hanging out. By definition, hanging out is, “To socialize with your friends” (Urban Dictionary, 2005). A student at the University of Virginia stated, “It’s not that typical around here that you go out on a date… You hang out. Like you hang out with your friends or just visit them at their apartment” (Glenn & Marquart, 2001, p. 27).

Why do young people prefer this method? Perhaps it is a pre-dating technique. Hanging out gives the opportunity to get acquainted with someone before asking them on a date. If all goes well in a group setting, it makes the next step less stressful. Meeting new acquaintances in a group setting reduces first meet anxiety as well as feeling the need to impress.

Another contributing factor is hanging out and hooking up is continuously being modeled on popular television shows. A student from Howard University explained, “Formal dating like ‘let me pick you up and we’ll go somewhere’... it happens, but it’s rare...

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Maybe the "hanging out" instead of dating - is just a classic student thing to do *shrug*

posted December 13, 2013 08:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
That's interesting because I also thought for a really long time - that all my female friends were exactly like me.. but then I realised they were more sexual - and also that men often misinterpreted where I was coming from.

Many men and women date for some time and then have sex. That time is usually weeks or at most months.. and they usually date *because* they are sexually attracted to each other.
So the average man or woman can actually *feel like* they are sexually attracted to another... and that they want to have sex with that other person, much sooner than I ever have (purely based on the others' physical appearance).

This ^ has never been my pattern. When it comes to the men I desired to have sex with and did have sex with - the pattern was:
- I met them.. got to know them.. became close friends with them... realised I was attracted months later - or actually years later in one case.. 1-2 yrs and then things turned sexual between us gradually.

This is because the psychological connection, once formed - is what turns me on sexually.
The actual appearance of those guys - their physical naked body - does not spark in me an impulse to have sex.

The photo I posted.. is just one example.
If the guy in the photo was standing naked next to me whispering sweet nothings in my ear - I still wouldn't feel any h*rnier. Because I don't have any kind of connection with him.

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That is me to a T. I'm really curious about your natal now. I've always suspected PSYCHE and PALLAS to play a role. (PALLAS is in my 8H. Yes, in most cases, I'd rather play chess. I could do it naked, and not be the least bit distracted.)

My closest friends are similar in style; one only became sexual with the man she married; it was long-distance, and in her mid-20s. The other, has impulses to be sexual (which we both joke is our URANUS having fun with 8R) but in general tends to the intellectual, examined life. Probably one reason why we gel so well. She'll have romantic feelings and experience intense bouts of loneliness - but they're always fleeting, and only in conjunction with a relationship.

Those who can get revved up for a single encounter have something else clearly going on. I certainly can't. Like you, it takes me years. He's always my friend, or has been my friend (in the case of my husband), and it became sexual. For me, because I felt a psychological draw or a soul connexion.

Anything else just hasn't been worth my time - uppity as it sounds.

Here's an interesting thing: when you do find you have a period of desire, is it lasting? Does it seem finite? Can something unrelated to sex or the physical that changes impact whether you continue feeling desire?

For me, it's 'to answer a question' (as my husband recently put it). I have a clear purpose, or something I'm seeking to accomplish with sex, whether it's therapeutic, or to acquire more data. I'm very scientific about it, I've come to realise.

This whole notion of sex because it feels pleasurable and satisfies a physical urge is SO foreign to me. Funny, considering what I do for a living. I always feel a bit like Spock on the Enterprise. Knowledgeable, and not quite fitting in.

posted December 13, 2013 08:35 PM            

I JUST realised ... I've NEVER dated.

I don't even get the concept! It's ALWAYS been guys with whom I've become friends, typically involved in a mutual project, and, if I found that I became attracted to him (in high school, several months later, but those relationships were never sexual; in college, more like a year later, with same pattern up to age 21); then the relationship would adopt a physical component. That's it.

posted December 13, 2013 08:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
I don't even assess things on a "normal to abnormal" scale - when it comes to this.

I'm happy with things as they are. Basically - if it's not broken - don't fix it.
That's my philosophy.

If I was unhappy - I would seek psychological help.

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Frankly, Odette, you are NOT what I'd call asexual. Just from what I'm reading, you sound like you have a normal, healthy pattern of sexuality that's not rooted in dysfunction and pathological distress. SO many people are more sexual than they want to be due to a wide range of issues: usually insecurity, pressure, and so on.

posted December 13, 2013 09:12 PM            

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted December 13, 2013 09:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Seriously? So people who don't engage in CASUAL sex are asexual? I'm asexual then. So sad of me.

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RIGHT? I don't get that, either. Sounds quite normal and groovy to me! Not that I didn't have tremendous respect for Virginia Johnson. But I think she was after something - rather than just casual sex. Hell, you do NOT become THAT driven to scientific application if you didn't already have the sort of wonder that drives scientists. Know what I mean?

posted December 13, 2013 09:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Actually - I also found this a couple of days ago..
It seems many people are taking to "hanging out" as opposed to dating - which is what I've always done.
But they still seem to have sex sooner than I have ever felt like it.
http://strongermarriage.org/htm/dating/hanging-vs-dating

Maybe the "hanging out" instead of dating - is just a classic student thing to do *shrug*

It's just that even if that's the case.. I still 'hang out" for like months before I even feel like I want to have sex. So it still seems .. out of sync with what the average person is doing.

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If you don't mind m asking Odette what are your natal planets?

I'm similar to you in the sense that physical attraction alone cannot make me want to have sex with someone.

posted December 13, 2013 09:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:

I see that and I think - He is good looking. He has a nice body. He's aesthetically pleasing.. But there is nothing about that photo that makes me feel h*rny.

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Question.

I read the description of Demisexual. So Odette if you are in a relationship with a man that you have a *deep connection* with and he sends you pictures - sexual pictures of himself - would that arouse you?

You & I both share a love of males w/ Scorpio-Mars for this very reason - the emotional passion & intensity they offer that goes beyond the physical. When a male has this placement, are you likely to be more sexually open to him?

posted December 13, 2013 10:21 PM            

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So people who don't engage in CASUAL sex are asexual?

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No. It's not people who don't "engage".
A demisexual person could be a prostitute and engage in sex on a nightly basis with different people.
It has no connection with "engaging".

It means you have no desire for sex.
Like if a naked guy who was particularly attractive was standing next to a woman begging her to go for it... a "sexual" woman might be turned on by him in virtue of his appearance - e.g. she might think "OMG he has hot abs. I'd love me some of that!"
As an example ^ lol

An asexual person would feel nothing.

A demisexual person would feel nothing *if* the guy was a stranger. They may or may not feel 'something' sexually if he was someone she already had an emotional connection with, friendship or romantic. It depends. Because demisexual people will not be sexually attracted to *every* single one of their friends.. So it depends if the connection develops into something that they find sexually attractive.

LovelyAries -

quote:

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if you are in a relationship with a man that you have a *deep connection* with and he sends you pictures - sexual pictures of himself - would that arouse you?

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It's not just if I am in a relationship. I was attracted to a male friend.
It doesn't have to feel romantic. It just has to feel like an intense connection that moves me in a certain way on an emotional level - and that actually gives me an impulse - to want sex.
Otherwise I don't feel an impulse to go there.

I mentioned earlier that I was in a relationship with a guy for two years.. (the Libra guy). I did like him a lot and we were close.. but I didn't have sexual feelings towards him. So not every "close" connection - makes me feel sexual.
If he sent me photos of himself naked - I would pretend I'm turned on - as I did when we had sex (every time)... but I wouldn't actually be.

But hmm.. I'm trying to think.. if the guy was someone I became attracted to - and he sent me naked pics - whether I would be attracted...
I probably would be, because I'd imagine him and I doing things to each other.. if I saw the pics.
Because of our pre-existing connection if I already saw him as "attractive".. and I wanted to have sex with him... then seeing the pics would turn me on in that context.

quote:

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You & I both share a love of males w/ Scorpio-Mars for this very reason - the emotional passion & intensity they offer that goes beyond the physical. When a male has this placement, are you likely to be more sexually open to him?

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