posted March 17, 2014 02:56 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Lol well damn wouldn't that be nice! It's funny how mostly women are interested in astrology and a lot of it centers around relationship problems and men who won't comity or whatever the issue is... But if you pay attention even on LL I think that's starting to change... More straight guys are becoming interested in astrology and questions about relationships too. And I think I see what you mean about the 12 signs if everything is symmetrical there's always going to be a power struggle between the opposite sides. But 13 would make it more of a free for all and power wouldn't be centralized the same way...

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The problem with this idea is that in a 360 degree circle such as the sun's ecliptic, there will always be a point that is 180 degrees away despite what the division of the zodiac is like. If the signs were divided into 13, the concept of modality, element, and the geometrical aspects would also have to change.

Also consider that because the constellations are unequal, it would NOT be an equal 13 sign division either. Whats funny is that the constellations themselves are only human constructs of the mind, looking out at the stars in attempts to group them in a meaningful way in order to identify them better, what would stop modern people from changing the constellations themselves either? You guys think its okay to change the entire system, why not just change the constellations? the stars move and thus are not in the same positions anyways, just link together ones that are in close proximity, and give them new meaning, LoL.

posted March 17, 2014 03:02 AM            

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Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
Which is my Sun conjunct Cruithne / North Node conjunct Atlantis.

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So you're one of THOSE too. The ones who think that some vague asteroid holds meaning because its name sounds special to you. What do you think that means, do you think that means you are reincarnate from atlantis just because the asteroid is named atlantis? What do you know about the asteroids orbit? how fast or slow is it? what about it's mass? where is it in relation to the other planets in the solar system and what does that mean?

Heres an idea for people into asteroids, maybe instead of relying on the names of the asteroids which many were given by scientists and which may or may not have been picked out of a hat, here's what REALLY should be done.

posted March 17, 2014 03:04 AM            

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Originally posted by arcturiann:
The problem with this idea is that in a 360 degree circle such as the sun's ecliptic, there will always be a point that is 180 degrees away despite what the division of the zodiac is like. If the signs were divided into 13, the concept of modality, element, and the geometrical aspects would also have to change.

Also consider that because the constellations are unequal, it would NOT be an equal 13 sign division either. Whats funny is that the constellations themselves are only human constructs of the mind, looking out at the stars in attempts to group them in a meaningful way in order to identify them better, what would stop modern people from changing the constellations themselves either? You guys think its okay to change the entire system, why not just change the constellations? the stars move and thus are not in the same positions anyways, just link together ones that are in close proximity, and give them new meaning, LoL.

I mean seriously, thats a real question though, if you think its okay to change the seasonal system because you are so stuck on your personal fixation with some grouping of stars, why can't we change the groupings and make new constellations and zodiac then? I mean, thats totally fine right? We don't have to listen to what those oldies piscean-mcboring faces say about it.

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Alright i understand that, but Ophiuchus isn't part of the seasons it's the galactic center, the fact that we are all the same source and we are all humans, the exit way to the universe (The anus? - Uranus?) that relates us - The entrance of Ophiuchus is 100% what has brought us into the Aquarian age and it needs to be developed upon surely

Yeah i know that, but that is all our history, Ophiuchus is a Sign pretty much exactly in line with the other 12, and physically in terms of the human body which is what astrology is, Ophiuchus is your Ass and Sacral Plexus, then understand the meaning of both the symbol and the word Ophiuchus they completely correlate, then take in that the Aquarius constellation is showing Ophiuchus, to me that says Ophiuchus is what needs to be taken into account for the next step of Aquarius. The fact that Males now take in there ass and don't pay so much attention to there dick is why females now get respected in society, and you can see this.

posted March 17, 2014 03:07 AM            

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Originally posted by arcturiann:
So you're one of THOSE too. The ones who think that some vague asteroid holds meaning because its name sounds special to you. What do you think that means, do you think that means you are reincarnate from atlantis just because the asteroid is named atlantis? What do you know about the asteroids orbit? how fast or slow is it? what about it's mass? where is it in relation to the other planets in the solar system and what does that mean?

Heres an idea for people into asteroids, maybe instead of relying on the names of the asteroids which many were given by scientists and which may or may not have been picked out of a hat, here's what REALLY should be done.

You look at statistics of people who were born with significant placements such as atlantis conjunct ascendant, and see what these different people have in common, from there you can derive meaning, not from the name alone, that is a sad and unscientific attempt at trying to make yourself feel even more special because you want to think you're reincarnate from atlantis and likely have some sort of messianic complex.

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Not atall bro. I've understood the meanings of both astrologically aswell as all the other asteroids in my chart, they are the tiny parts of astrology that seperate us. Cruithne is Earths second Moon that orbits around Earth the same as the Moon and it causes you to differentiate between your left side(Home/Mother) and your right side (Away/father) which is why all humans can feel they're self awareness stronger in the left side of the face and body more than the right and have more of a connection with it generally.

posted March 17, 2014 03:17 AM            

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Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
Alright i understand that, but Ophiuchus isn't part of the seasons it's the galactic center, the fact that we are all the same source and we are all humans, the exit way to the universe(The anus haha?) that relates us, perhaps Serpentarius is Sagittarius with Ophiuchus connected , the ass and thighs together - But the entrance of Ophiuchus is 100% what has brought us into the Aquarian age and it needs to be developed upon surely

Yeah i know that, but that is all our history, Ophiuchus is a Sign pretty much exactly in line with the other 12, and physically in terms of the human body which is what astrology is, Ophiuchus is your Ass, if you try to understand what you're ass is it's like soft etc and the anus (galactic center) then understand Ophiuchus they completely correlate, then take in that the Aquarius constellation is showing Ophiuchus does that not mean thats what needs to be taken into account in astrology for the next step into Aquarius.

It's a ******* weird concept haha but that is what Ophiuchus deals with and why it is disregarded in society.

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Okay, your ophiuchus-ass analogy needs some work, but I think that it's entrance into the solar ecliptic is not something that is to be taken on a personal level, but as a sign for humanity and earth as a whole, thus I don't agree with it being a part of the tropical system because the tropical system is all about earths relation to the sun, which is what makes it very personal, whereas the constellations and fixed stars while they have meaning as points in a chart, I dont think that they should replace the zodiacal system, because the system was put in place outside of constellations to begin with as a system for spatial reference, that being said I think that renaming the 30 degree partitions themselves would be a good step to change in astrology.

What I do agree with is the usage of fixed stars and asteroids in general. I think they are good things to be curious about and to learn and understand, obviously fixed stars are more understood than asteroids because the ancients have studied them longer than history, but asteroids are relatively new so I think experimenting with them is fine as long as they don't take precedent over the traditional planets.

posted March 17, 2014 03:17 AM            

All the asteroids play a part in who you are and they are the tool to find the depth in yourself, the planets cover just the basis of who you are and the fixed stars are the backbone of the constellations/sign. The royal stars and Sirius are the other prime factors in astrology.

posted March 17, 2014 03:45 AM            

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:

The entire reason I am here, involved in astrology, whatsoever, is due to my primary interest in archaeology, due to my introduction into archaeoastronomy at the very young age of 9.

The civilizations throughout early Europe, the Middle East, and both Western and Eastern Asia, as arcturiann has tried to explain (very clearly and simply), each used a calendar system that consisted of seasonal intervals based on climate-celestial changes, which were then adapted to fit cultural-religious mythologies and events.

While it is very true that from East to West each of the eldest calendar systems did include/observe a single "month" where at the very end of that "year" an additional amount of days carried over. The length of that month and after how many cycles it was to fall into that year's calendar are slightly different. every 2&1/2, some used 7 years, some changed more frequently...

Orphiucus itself is a constellation based off mythology from early Sumer mythology, which was later repurposed, first by Akkadian/Babylonians, and then also, the Egyptian and Hellenic peoples.

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First of all, the name is Ophiuchus.
Secondly, arcturiann "hasn't tried to explain anything very simply and clearly", he just bumped into the thread expressing with a very condescending tone his disillusionment with us "beginners" not understanding the basics of astrology, then he continued with more and more "refined" insults which hinted to me that his reaction, just like yours,is nothing but a hostile defensive reaction to someone proposing a change.

I don't necessarily militate for the introduction of Ophiuchus in the zodiac, but just as a matter of principle, since the present tropical zodiac is a symbolic alignment from a fixed rotating point of the seasons to the constellations, logically, at some point, one can take into account ANY visible or even invisible constellation from that fixed point, if meanings, or symbols, or new concepts and discoveries might lead to that.

SaturnineMoth, if you are passionate or expert in archaeoastronomy, then you must know better than anyone that our astronomical knowledge progresses together with the rest of the science/technology progress and, naturally, astrology can't remain the same and behind. Our knowledge of the world and our consciousness expand and astrology, which reflects humanity on a symbolical level, must align with this evolution. Not everything the ancients believed is the ultimate truth. I'll just give one example: the retrograde planets: the ancients thought they moved back and forth until they discovered elliptical movement.

But the conversation has started to look very good and I'm glad you guys, Mystic Cat and arcturiann, finally got to a real debate. I am very interested in both your theories and points of view. Thank you, artcuriann for explaining (eventually :P) some facts related to traditional astrology.

posted March 17, 2014 04:27 AM            

@mystic_cat I understand your anger, I feel the same way just trying to explain astrology at all to most normal people because they immediately roll their eyes at me and astrology is so complex that it is difficult to convince them in just one day that there is truth in it.

I also get pretty angry because I have a personal pet peeve when people spread false knowledge to others confidently as if they are experts on the matter and the ignorance just snowballs into a chain of people believing wrong information that could waste a lot of their time or potentially harm them. Imagine if someone gave you terrible health advice and that you become really into this fad diet that is actually horrible for your health, but that you know, "doctors are quacks and big pharma just wants your money", then you went and told everyone else how great this diet is and that it works so well for you, then 5 years down the line everyone starts getting kidney stones and having strange respiratory problems because mr diet guru was so confident that his system worked and never bothered to get his blood checked the whole time.

Also the whole black vs white mentality many people have, it's like just cause I don't agree with some new age thing, doesn't mean i'm against ALL forms of progression and innovation, like what the hell. And then if I question some rigid scientific form of thinking, the person accuses me of being a hippie, like dang, nobody can ask questions anymore without being labeled as left or right, piscean or aquarian, democrat or republican. Some traditions are in place for a reason, if you were a scientist and you have an idea that would create a new technological breakthrough, you'd have to know the fundamentals, you'd need to know classical mechanics and understand the physics behind the nature of electricity and how a circuit board works, but just because you abide by these rules and study them doesn't mean you cant create something new and innovative, but in order to create something new and innovative, you NEED to know these rules first. And that's all i'm tryna say to these people, but instead I get "Why does it matter how electricity works?" like b*tch you're just too lazy to look **** up and really understand it, just trying to voice an opinion without doing the research, I just wanna give them a big ol' saturnian slap to the back of the head.

posted March 17, 2014 04:40 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
@arcturiann, Well in reality not everything is black and white. I know it's a contradiction but forcing things into binaries is actually what can lead to inequality and dependency. There's no flexibility. Just like having "equal rights" doesn't necessarily mean being treated the same in every situation

And no I'm really not trying to "change the entire system" idk why I'm even debating on this tbh but I don't think there's anything wrong with considering new ideas. I mean even in Christianity you'll hear that the Bible should be "interpreted for modern times" but that doesn't take away the original... And things are changing regardless. More ppl are becoming interested in astrology which yes is metaphysical but basically represents how were all connected through the universe. And technology is connecting people across the world in ways that have never been possible before. So I'm not trying to say I know everything and this is how things "should" be, it's more just that as this continues it'll be more and more necessary to become accepting of differences without being threatened by them (which is where throwing off the axis comes in) . And btw I'm not even optimistic about living in some kind of utopia during the age of Aquarius.. I've actually stopped caring for the most part but still find it interesting I guess

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posted March 17, 2014 07:59 AM            

I was open minded to this when I first read about it. But I really can't see the benefit it brings. Ophiuchus is a mix of Sag and Scorpio. You are a Sag Sun with Scorpio rising/influence as I am thus you feel you fit with Ophiuchus.

Anyway, why did you change your user name?

posted March 17, 2014 08:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Lol well damn wouldn't that be nice! It's funny how mostly women are interested in astrology and a lot of it centers around relationship problems and men who won't comit or whatever the issue is... But if you pay attention even on LL I think that's starting to change... More straight guys are becoming interested in astrology and questions about relationships too.

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I'm not sure it's true that mostly women are interested in astrology. Growing up most of the astrologers I knew were men. I think this site has more women interested in relation issue because of Linda's book Love Signs.

It was extremely popular (and I'm sure still is) brought astrology especially regarding love into the mainstream.

posted March 17, 2014 02:20 PM            

Arcturian i understannd why you're not exactly trying to progress for yourself rather than backing up the old traditional ways, i have not spread a single bit of knowledge that isn't true and so people that see this will be aware of Ophiuchus in astrology, i could be wrong and i might be, if i so i learn from that mistake, but i wouldn't spent so long on this subject if i didn't think it was important a greatly ties in with the Aquarian age.

posted March 17, 2014 02:29 PM            

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
If Ophiuchus is 1/13 of humanity as you said way back, why are you squishing Scorpio into 6 days?

I was open minded to this when I first read about it. But I really can't see the benefit it brings. Ophiuchus is a mix of Sag and Scorpio. You are a Sag Sun with Scorpio rising/influence as I am thus you feel you fit with Ophiuchus.

Anyway, why did you change your user name?

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In terms of the constellations Scorpio is 6-9 degree's long, if the constellation of Scorpio is 6-9 degree's long then the 30 degree's arn't going to be Scorpio are they. No and the astrologers and astronomers have both realized this which is why the ******* Sun dates are the 13 Sun dates.

If you arguing against what i've just said sorry but to put it bluntly you're wrong.

posted March 17, 2014 03:01 PM            

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Originally posted by arcturiann:
I give up. This dude has a mental problem.

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posted March 17, 2014 03:06 PM            

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
He was very serious even as his other name LOL

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Oh yeah, now I remember, this was the kid posting pics of himself cross legged on the floor meditating and sh*t ROFL.

posted March 17, 2014 03:12 PM            

Now you, seem to be some idiotic moron who's viewing what i'm doing from the complete wrong perspective, doing everything you can to make me look like "the badguy", when all i'm doing is spreading facts, trying to help people understand that Serpentarius is a real sign. Have you understood anything i'm talking about? Has anyone that is disregarding what i'm saying actually understood it? From where i am sitting it doesn't look like it and no one here has actually understood this part of astrology in any real depth.