posted March 16, 2014 05:10 PM            

The Natal is still accurate by changing just your Natal and Draconic Sun to the 13 sign dates.

I'm not sure what astrologers and astronomers are doing about Ophiuchus, it's a serious topic that seems to be being ignored or there is no progression with it as of yet, it take's a huge part in our astrological evolution and is the main theme that has brang in the Aquarian age. I've posted several times about it and contacted a few known astrologers but astrologers are either to ignorant or stick to the past ways of astrology and ignore it. I've spent alot of time myself researching it and currently i just change the Sun sign dates to the 13 signs as recommended by professional astrologers. The other annoying part about this is it ruins all other charts, the solar return, Draconic etc As i have virtually no idea how Ophiuchus changes these, it's **** by astrologers honestly and Aquarius needs to take position in the astrological society over the older Pisces generation who are sticking to Ptolemys given works 2000 YEARS ago. All the recent astrological changes seem to invalid Ptolemys work and Pluto in Scorpio i'm guessing will be the generation to dig up the truth. - My Sun sits in Serpentarius First house -

Capricorn: Jan. 20-Feb. 16.
Aquarius: Feb. 16-March 11.
Pisces: March 11-April 18.
Aries: April 18-May 13.
Taurus: May 13-June 21.
Gemini: June 21-July 20.
Cancer: July 20-Aug. 10.
Leo: Aug. 10-Sept. 16.
Virgo: Sept. 16-Oct. 30.
Libra: Oct. 30-Nov. 23.
Scorpio: Nov. 23-29.
Ophiuchus/Serpentarius: Nov. 3-Dec. 17
Sagittarius: Dec. 17-Jan. 20.

13 sign sidereal sites:
(NASA) http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/starfinder3/en/

http://www.astrology13.com/
http://siderealist.com/
http://www.13signsastrology.com/

posted March 16, 2014 05:22 PM            

"The Natal is still accurate by changing just your Natal and Draconic Sun to the 13 sign dates."

You mean in a tropical chart you just change the sign of the Sun, then calculate the sign for each planet which should be different? I assume the aspects remain the same, but the houses (house signs) change?

posted March 16, 2014 06:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Thanks, Mystic Cat, I can't wait to research those links.

[b]"The Natal is still accurate by changing just your Natal and Draconic Sun to the 13 sign dates."

You mean in a tropical chart you just change the sign of the Sun, then calculate the sign for each planet which should be different? I assume the aspects remain the same, but the houses (house signs) change?

And then you would have 13 houses with the 13th being what? [/B]

---

posted March 16, 2014 06:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by arcturiann:
I keep having to explain to beginners about how the tropical zodiac is NOT based off of the constellations, but are based off of the seasons, with the constellations only having served a symbolic representation for the seasons at the time.

If you're more interested in the stars and constellations, then you should be studying vedic sidereal astrology, or constellation astrology, not tropical.

---

All of the other 12 traditional signs are based off of there 12 traditional constellations, the same as Ophiuchus, the only single difference is Ophiuchus doesn't have the place it now should. This doesn't mean using the sidereal it just means diving the sky into 13 slices instead of 12 to make a 13 sign tropical. Before the Romans converted us to the Babylonian 12 sign calender and zodiac, creating western civilized society for the next 2000 years of the age of Pisces, we used the 13 signs. OPHIUCHUS IS AN ORIGINAL SIGN, and an original constellation, the same as the other 12. It is your feminine kundalini energy and connection to the galactic center. The reason Women had no rights for most of the last 2000 years is because there has been no Ophiuchus, or Serpentarius as Ptolemy named it.

In the Aquarius constellation, he has a towels covering his front and showing his behind, which symbolizes the entrance of Ophiuchus (The Butt) and the covering of Scorpio. (Antares is now in Ophiuchus). Because Ophiuchus is what enables mankind to have harmony and peace with another in the Age of Aquarius and why we haven't in the age of Pisces. This is also why it is known as the age of freedom. Ophiuchus and Aquarius are both ruled by Uranus, to mistake that as a coincidence is idiotic i doubt it will taken as so by the upcoming generation.

Serpentarius/Ophiuchus is the sign of understanding, harmony, secrets, knowledge, kundalini, healing, peace, respect of authority and respect for the feminine, wisdom, intuition and Dna activation.

These are not to be mistaken with those of Scorpio and Sagittarius.

Obviously there could be reasons why the butt is left out of the chart, but it isn't explained and people justify it by falling back to past of what Ptolemy scribed 2000 years ago, i mean are people insane, time and space has changed an unfathomable amount over 2000 years.

The only conclusion i can come up with is that Ophiuchus blends into Sagittarius to create Serpentarius, and perhaps Ophiuchus isn't strong enough to have a place in the zodiac on it's own on its own, but if that is the case it needs to proven with solid facts and evidence, if it true, which i don't think it is as Ophiuchus is now strongly active within humanity.

- I am an Ophiuchus/Serpentarius myself.

A few people to look at born under Serpentarius or to watch interviews with to notice the difference between Serpentarius and Sagittarius:

Ben Stiller
Brednan Fraser
Ian Somerhalder

Though they are born in the last age of Pisces so they will be primarily under the sign of Sagittarius as i believe Ophiuchus is an Aquarian sign - The alignment happened with Ophiuchus and the Galactic Center only over the last 10 years as we enter Aquarius.
(We've been coming out of the age of Pisces for the last 100)

The first things you notice are the eyes, the feminine snakelike look, an "alien" look (Galactic Center) and that they have two sides, they are ruled by the Ass and not the thighs and you see this quite simply by watching interviews or videos with them.

posted March 16, 2014 06:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by arcturiann:

I keep having to explain to beginners about how the tropical zodiac is NOT based off of the constellations, but are based off of the seasons, with the constellations only having served a symbolic representation for the seasons at the time.

If you're more interested in the stars and constellations, then you should be studying vedic sidereal astrology, or constellation astrology, not tropical.

---

posted March 16, 2014 06:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:

Well done. That doesn't matter even partially to the fact that Ophiuchus plays a part equal in size to the other signs. I understand your mistake and you are partly correct - But all the other 12 traditional signs are based off of there 12 traditional constellations, the same as Ophiuchus, the only single difference is Ophiuchus doesn't have the place it now should. This doesn't mean using the sidereal it just means diving the sky into 13 slices instead of 12 to make a 13 sign tropical. Before the Romans converted us to the Babylonian 12 sign calender and zodiac, creating western civilized society for the next 2000 years of the age of Pisces, we used the 13 signs. OPHIUCHUS IS AN ORIGINAL SIGN, and an original constellation, the same as the other 12. It is your feminine kundalini energy and connection to the galactic center. The reason Women had no rights for most of the last 2000 years is because there has been no Ophiuchus, or Serpentarius as Ptolemy named it.

In the Aquarius constellation, he has a towels covering his front and showing his behind, which symbolizes the opening of Ophiuchus (The Butt) and the covering of Scorpio. (Antares is now in Ophiuchus). Because Ophiuchus is what enables mankind to have harmony and peace with another in the Age of Aquarius and why we haven't in the age of Pisces. This is also why it is known as the age of freedom. Ophiuchus and Aquarius are both ruled by Uranus, to mistake that as a coincidence is idiotic i doubt it will taken as so by the upcoming generation.

Serpentarius/Ophiuchus is the sign of understanding, harmony, secrets, knowledge, kundalini, healing, peace, respect of authority and respect for the feminine, these are not to be mistaken with those of Scorpio and Sagittarius.

---

Beautiful!

posted March 16, 2014 08:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
Well done. That doesn't matter even partially to the fact that Ophiuchus plays a part equal in size to the other signs. I understand your mistake and you are partly correct - But all the other 12 traditional signs are based off of there 12 traditional constellations, the same as Ophiuchus, the only single difference is Ophiuchus doesn't have the place it now should. This doesn't mean using the sidereal it just means diving the sky into 13 slices instead of 12 to make a 13 sign tropical. Before the Romans converted us to the Babylonian 12 sign calender and zodiac, creating western civilized society for the next 2000 years of the age of Pisces, we used the 13 signs. OPHIUCHUS IS AN ORIGINAL SIGN, and an original constellation, the same as the other 12. It is your feminine kundalini energy and connection to the galactic center. The reason Women had no rights for most of the last 2000 years is because there has been no Ophiuchus, or Serpentarius as Ptolemy named it.

---

I don't know exactly what you are grasping at here other than straws really... or where you studied these things. It is fascinating though, and I like to read it anyway. ^^;

While I applaud your effort to accommodate the other constellations into the Zodiac (let's just say "Western") system, I cannot find where you are getting these "facts" to support that Orphiucus was ever a true Zodiac sign or that there was a 13th month calendar prior to the Roman's "adopting" the Babylonian calendar.

The entire reason I am here, involved in astrology, whatsoever, is due to my primary interest in archaeology, due to my introduction into archaeoastronomy at the very young age of 9.

The civilizations throughout early Europe, the Middle East, and both Western and Eastern Asia, as arcturiann has tried to explain (very clearly and simply), each used a calendar system that consisted of seasonal intervals based on climate-celestial changes, which were then adapted to fit cultural-religious mythologies and events.

While it is very true that from East to West each of the eldest calendar systems did include/observe a single "month" where at the very end of that "year" an additional amount of days carried over. The length of that month and after how many cycles it was to fall into that year's calendar are slightly different. every 2&1/2, some used 7 years, some changed more frequently...

Orphiucus itself is a constellation based off mythology from early Sumer mythology, which was later repurposed, first by Akkadian/Babylonians, and then also, the Egyptian and Hellenic peoples.

The original Orphiucus myth actually has very little to do with some great feminine power... (lol) and actually deals with the breaking of that power... essentially Orphiucus represents Marduk as he slays Tiamat.

You have the primordial goddess of creation and chaos being slain by the lord of storms, law and order... which is why he fits so well between the portion of the heavens given to represent "Pluto" (Hades) or "Serket" (the guardians, water scorpions) and "Jupiter" (Zeus), (as with Chiron, Centaurus, et al). (*Chiron is also represented by the centaur of Sagittarius by way of Yed Posterior and Anterior, and his mythology concerning the Bull, Orion, and the Scorpion).

You are essentially talking about a rather new concept of having the equal month calendar, or international fixed calendar system, then applying that to astrology. This is a much more new age, mystical route to take with astrology... and, as you can tell... the more orthodox astrologers likely won't support it.

Orphiucus is being given a lot of attention lately, maybe that's a good thing, but it really seems blind to ignore the other constellations that would also follow into the "Sidereal" scheme of things... Corvi, Cygnus, Andromeda, Lyra... and, then it really becomes a matter of "where do we stop". hah

As for being an original sign - no... It was never an original sign, an early constellation yes, but sign, no... The way the constellations of orthodox Western (classical-based) astrology fit is in essence a lot like the construction and evolution of the Christian Bible... the most fundamental theme from each set of mythology and each celestial season were filtered down, and each of the 12 were prescribed something from those legends that would (if the astrology was used as intended) help identify a person born under each month, each star to whatever characteristics were at play in the environment at that time.

Looking at constellations to understand the actual signs from within the 12 did exist though, (for the ones that were visible, obviously). But, just because the pole star moved from Polis to Thuban to Polaris didn't make the ancients change the original 12 zodiac signs... they simply continued to read that star and(or) constellation into the natal for an individual, while changing their tools for mapping. The Map positions changed, the heavens moved, the world circled around the sun... the people, however, did not.

The ancients would have understood the changing of a persons characteristics and behaviors within astrology the same way we do today, through progression... but, everything falls back onto the original blueprint.

When you ask to change system because the sky and tools have changed, I'm just gonna be honest here and say it sounds like you want something "special" for yourself to hold unto... like being a Sagittarius isn't special enough, so you want to identify as some other celestial archetype. Of course you would, you are born between chaos and order... change fits you... you are different. And, so is your chart, just as it says it is today in the 21st century AD, and would have back in 21st century BC!

I don't mean any offense... I do like your ideas and look forward to seeing where you go with them in time. <3

posted March 16, 2014 08:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
I don't know exactly what you are grasping at here other than straws really... or where you studied these things. It is fascinating though, and I like to read it anyway. ^^;

While I applaud your effort to accommodate the other constellations into the Zodiac (let's just say "Western") system, I cannot find where you are getting these "facts" to support that Orphiucus was ever a true Zodiac sign or that there was a 13th month calendar prior to the Roman's "adopting" the Babylonian calendar.

The entire reason I am here, involved in astrology, whatsoever, is due to my primary interest in archaeology, due to my introduction into archaeoastronomy at the very young age of 9.

The civilizations throughout early Europe, the Middle East, and both Western and Eastern Asia, as arcturiann has tried to explain (very clearly and simply), each used a calendar system that consisted of seasonal intervals based on climate-celestial changes, which were then adapted to fit cultural-religious mythologies and events.

While it is very true that from East to West each of the eldest calendar systems did include/observe a single "month" where at the very end of that "year" an additional amount of days carried over. The length of that month and after how many cycles it was to fall into that year's calendar are slightly different. every 2&1/2, some used 7 years, some changed more frequently...

Orphiucus itself is a constellation based off mythology from early Sumer mythology, which was later repurposed, first by Akkadian/Babylonians, and then also, the Egyptian and Hellenic peoples.

The original Orphiucus myth actually has very little to do with some great feminine power... (lol) and actually deals with the breaking of that power... essentially Orphiucus represents Marduk as he slays Tiamat.

You have the primordial goddess of creation and chaos being slain by the lord of storms, law and order... which is why he fits so well between the portion of the heavens given to represent "Pluto" (Hades) or "Serket" (the guardians, water scorpions) and "Jupiter" (Zeus), (as with Chiron, Centaurus, et al). (*Chiron is also represented by the centaur of Sagittarius by way of Yed Posterior and Anterior, and his mythology concerning the Bull, Orion, and the Scorpion).

You are essentially talking about a rather new concept of having the equal month calendar, or international fixed calendar system, then applying that to astrology. This is a much more new age, mystical route to take with astrology... and, as you can tell... the more orthodox astrologers likely won't support it.

Orphiucus is being given a lot of attention lately, maybe that's a good thing, but it really seems blind to ignore the other constellations that would also follow into the "Sidereal" scheme of things... Corvi, Cygnus, Andromeda, Lyra... and, then it really becomes a matter of "where do we stop". hah

As for being an original sign - no... It was never an original sign, an early constellation yes, but sign, no... The way the constellations of orthodox Western (classical-based) astrology fit is in essence a lot like the construction and evolution of the Christian Bible... the most fundamental theme from each set of mythology and each celestial season were filtered down, and each of the 12 were prescribed something from those legends that would (if the astrology was used as intended) help identify a person born under each month, each star to whatever characteristics were at play in the environment at that time.

Looking at constellations to understand the actual signs from within the 12 did exist though, (for the ones that were visible, obviously). But, just because the pole star moved from Polis to Thuban to Polaris didn't make the ancients change the original 12 zodiac signs... they simply continued to read that star and(or) constellation into the natal for an individual, while changing their tools for mapping. The Map positions changed, the heavens moved, the world circled around the sun... the people, however, did not.

The ancients would have understood the changing of a persons characteristics and behaviors within astrology the same way we do today, through progression... but, everything falls back onto the original blueprint.

When you ask to change system because the sky and tools have changed, I'm just gonna be honest here and say it sounds like you want something "special" for yourself to hold unto... like being a Sagittarius isn't special enough, so you want to identify as some other celestial archetype. Of course you would, you are born between chaos and order... change fits you... you are different. And, so is your chart, just as it says it is today in the 21st century AD, and would have back in 21st century BC!

I don't mean any offense... I do like your ideas and look forward to seeing where you go with them in time. <3

---

My first question is are you born into the Pisces or Aquarian eror? Born under Jupiter and Neptune or Saturn and Uranus? Using divine truth as your answer or Scientific facts & logic?

posted March 16, 2014 10:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:

When you ask to change system because the sky and tools have changed, I'm just gonna be honest here and say it sounds like you want something "special" for yourself to hold unto... like being a Sagittarius isn't special enough, so you want to identify as some other celestial archetype. Of course you would, you are born between chaos and order... change fits you... you are different. And, so is your chart, just as it says it is today in the 21st century AD, and would have back in 21st century BC!

I don't mean any offense... I do like your ideas and look forward to seeing where you go with them in time. <3

---

Exactly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
My first question is are you born into the Pisces or Aquarian eror? Born under Jupiter and Neptune or Saturn and Uranus? Using divine truth as your answer or Scientific facts & logic?

Ophiuchus was used as a sign the same as the rest by the original Sumerian and Egyptian civilizations both, the serpent holder has long been a goddess of the Earth and was the sign that connected us as a species in ancient times. Regardless of the fact the tropical is based on the seasons, that does not mean we are not advanced enough to progress astrology ourselves instead of relying what we were taught in the past. Ophiuchus take's up a 13th of humanity, and so why should people born under this sign be shoved into Sagittarius's or Scorpio's? It makes no sense or reason.
While what you are saying is true, they are not on the cusps of ages, before Ptolemy created the Tropical, we were in the Arien age and the Egyptians and Mayans both included Ophiuchus, who was known as Osiris, Sagittarius is Isis. Of course i could be mistaken, but it isn't explained by the fact that a system was created that we can not advance from. The development of humanity relys on our own progression.

---

posted March 16, 2014 11:08 PM            

We could create a ******* 42 sign zodiac if we wanted to, all that the system we use is is a simplified system, we can make it more accurate and indepth by progressing ourselves, which is the Aquarian theme.

posted March 16, 2014 11:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
It's like Pisces don't think that it is the constellations and star that effect us, what do you think it is, invisible lines and energy thats float in exact 30 degree lines around the constellations and only the 12 main signs ignoring every other? Ok.

Each and every star and planet within every system is effecting us and we can make astrology as simple or as indepth as we want to. The reason we havn't started going into the fixed star and constellations until recently is because within the age of Pisces(Neptune and Jupiter) everything is based on beliefs, views and opinions, the Christian astrology, we haven't been advanced enough ourselves to develop astrology for ourselves and so for the last 2000 years we have relied on the system Ptolemy created to last those 2000 years, now as we move into Aquarius (Uranus and Saturn) we are starting to base things more on reality and logic, whats actually going on in the skys instead of what we believe is going on. Leaving behind the Christ consciousness in order to develop humanitarian consciousness.

---

Clearly you've never even LOOKED UP what tropical astrology is. I'm pretty sure I explained this to you already on another thread. It has to do with the relative position of the earth and sun, and thus the longest day of the year, the shortest day of the year and etc are markers for seasonal changes that the earth undergoes with the symbolism based off of those changes that occur.

"The Tropical Zodiac, used by Western astrologers since at least 100 BC, consists of 12 equal signs of 30 degrees each. Each degree is divided into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds. This allows for a very precise calculation of the position of any planet. The signs of the Tropical Zodiac never corresponded to the material constellations because the constellations are highly irregular, none of which is 30 degrees in length and because of the precession of the equinoxes. The precession of the equinoxes is a slow movement of the fixed stars and the constellations due to spinning of the Earth on its axis. **IE FOR THIS REASON, the tropical zodiac is NOT based off of constellations** This causes a change in Tropical Zodiacal longitude of approximately one degree every 72 years.
The Tropical Zodiac is oriented to the Seasons. The Sun enters the 1st degree of the sign Aries on the Spring Equinox, when days and nights are equal. The Sun enters Cancer on Midsummer's Day, the Summer Solstice, the longest day of the year. The Sun enters Libra on the Autumnal Equinox, when again days and nights are equal. The Sun enters Capricorn on the Winter Solstice, when the days are shortest. Much of the meaning attributed to the signs comes from this seasonal orientation. " http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/zodiacworldview.html

Did you think that the meanings associated with the zodiac were based off of imaginary images that the constellations created in the minds of some ancient peoples? No. They are based off of the energy of the seasons as the earth progresses around the sun and the changes that the earth and humans occur during these seasons. Cardinal signs signify the beginning of a season, fixed in the middle and mutable at the end. The constellations only became associated with the zodiac as symbolic representations for the seasons and were only markers in the sky for the 30 degree partitions.

posted March 16, 2014 11:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystic_Cat:
Well done. That doesn't matter even partially to the fact that Ophiuchus plays a part equal in size to the other signs. I understand your mistake and you are partly correct - But all the other 12 traditional signs are based off of there 12 traditional constellations, the same as Ophiuchus, the only single difference is Ophiuchus doesn't have the place it now should. This doesn't mean using the sidereal it just means diving the sky into 13 slices instead of 12 to make a 13 sign tropical. Before the Romans converted us to the Babylonian 12 sign calender and zodiac, creating western civilized society for the next 2000 years of the age of Pisces, we used the 13 signs. OPHIUCHUS IS AN ORIGINAL SIGN, and an original constellation, the same as the other 12. It is your feminine kundalini energy and connection to the galactic center. The reason Women had no rights for most of the last 2000 years is because there has been no Ophiuchus, or Serpentarius as Ptolemy named it.

In the Aquarius constellation, he has a towels covering his front and showing his behind, which symbolizes the entrance of Ophiuchus (The Butt) and the covering of Scorpio. (Antares is now in Ophiuchus). Because Ophiuchus is what enables mankind to have harmony and peace with another in the Age of Aquarius and why we haven't in the age of Pisces. This is also why it is known as the age of freedom. Ophiuchus and Aquarius are both ruled by Uranus, to mistake that as a coincidence is idiotic i doubt it will taken as so by the upcoming generation.

Serpentarius/Ophiuchus is the sign of understanding, harmony, secrets, knowledge, kundalini, healing, peace, respect of authority and respect for the feminine, wisdom, intuition and Dna activation.

---

Ok I have some questions... Why was it taken out of the colander? I get that it's the age of Pisces and Neptunian delusions, but was there an "official" reason? Also how does it relate to the Galactic Center?

I've been interested in this before but never really looked into it... But I'm not dismissive about it and for the record I don't think you're trying to make yourself seem unique or anything like that. I would think the age of Aquarius would bring a lot more scientific understanding and validation to astrology too so of course it's possible the system really will change...

posted March 17, 2014 12:33 AM            

[QUOTE]

But what if that sagittarian zealotry turns out to actually be right on a whole new level

I started that thread on Antares and kaali before reading any of this so that's a weird coincidence, and I'd have to do a lot more research to really comment but yeah now this has my attention...

posted March 17, 2014 12:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by arcturiann:
personally i think for this reason tropical zodiac should have adopted different names for their signs than the ones associated with the constellations because of this confusion. people tend to take the constellation symbolism associated with their sign too seriously as a result and fail to delve deeper into what some of the signs mean in terms of the energetic archetypical meanings.

---

Why does it matter that that is how tropical astrology works? All that matters is there are signs and people that are not fully compensated for in the tropical zodiac, thus it needs to be updated, I;e progressing onto a new chart, that covers all recent changes in astrology and humanity.